JPOP: Decline and the silence of the fans.

[sa547]

Originally Posted by Athena

Rather, it seems to be the cringey events related to AKB48 that make it harder for people in America/Europe to appreciate it. And a positive impact needs to be viral in Japan before going in the West, so it can't generate hate in Japan itself.

Sad, but yes, the negative, twisted perception of j-pop and idols are going to remain for some time much in the Western eye (no thanks to the likes of, uh, Perez Hilton and Artefact), and as a result of that, whatever 48G material I have at home, like the anime I also keep secured and away, will remain as samizdat.

But I get to enjoy it in secret.

Oh, well, this one pic tells so much:


Finally, I can only laugh at that Mdo7.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by sa547

Oh, well, this one pic tells so much:

I have to say that they're too tall to my taste! No wonder the only thing the Philippines knows about J-Pop is Pizzicato Five and Globe.

If only Akimoto-sensei (and a few adventurous individuals) can handle "Cool Japan" seriously, trying to get it done by any means instead of getting orders by a buffoon from the government!

[Dhomochevsky]

They only look tall next to those tiny, tiny girls in the middle.

[Bakaizer]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

I have to say that they're too tall to my taste! No wonder the only thing the Philippines knows about J-Pop is Pizzicato Five and Globe.

If only Akimoto-sensei (and a few adventurous individuals) can handle "Cool Japan" seriously, trying to get it done by any means instead of getting orders by a buffoon from the government!

Scandal is quite popular you know

[ultimate_noob]

Good news to those who are weirded out by THE akb. Their most popular member just announced her graduation on Kohaku last night. The end of akb on mainstream might be near and will be just the usual popular underground idols again like during 2006.

Jpop critics who are actually kpop biases like some of you here might want to buy yourselves some good luxury sak...e...I mean delicious soju.

[asaqe]

Thing is they are now on the same level as hp. Yuko graduating isnt that big since she decided to to stick with the group for the long haul. I say Mayu or Yuki graduating will really change the dynamic

[ultimate_noob]

Originally Posted by asaqe

Thing is they are now on the same level as hp.

You're a good comedian. As far as I know the current hello project haven't harvested profits equal to akb.

I don't know about that mayu or kashiwagi girl but if they don't want to follow how hello project lose its way, they must gather young fans sooner or later.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by ultimate_noob

You're a good comedian. As far as I know the current hello project haven't harvested profits equal to akb.

I don't know about that mayu or kashiwagi girl but if they don't want to follow how hello project lose its way, they must gather young fans sooner or later.

If they want to gather more fans, why not AKB48 find someone that fits the "approachable idol" goal, but can stand out... even becoming future centers too!

Despite Yuko Oshima graduating, I think it's business as usual for them on the outside after being shocked of that announcement. Then again, like you said ultimate_noob, they need to gather fans... Not just younger fans, but everyone so long as they're approachable, fitting for their group.

Now then, what will Japan do now on their J-Pop industry? Sure that they can go international, but I think the only way is to be mindful of the internet... the wider internet! Maybe someday, a Youtube sensation will come from Japan.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

If they want to gather more fans, why not AKB48 find someone that fits the "approachable idol" goal, but can stand out... even becoming future centers too!

Despite Yuko Oshima graduating, I think it's business as usual for them on the outside after being shocked of that announcement. Then again, like you said ultimate_noob, they need to gather fans... Not just younger fans, but everyone so long as they're approachable, fitting for their group.

Now then, what will Japan do now on their J-Pop industry? Sure that they can go international, but I think the only way is to be mindful of the internet... the wider internet! Maybe someday, a Youtube sensation will come from Japan.

They would have to do some grovelling to american culture for that to happen which means being more kpop like in terms of music and style. So those lingerie swimsuit style video got to be more like a commercial where the girl is all serious in pose and personality. More hip hop style beats and pretty much say goodbye to the wota crowd since they are so hostile to anything that sounds like kpop.

A ZNC48 group where they have the kpop sound may persuade to give them a chance but given how badly sdn48 done we will not be seeing sexy concepts beyond j hip hop and its cousins.

[ultimate_noob]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

Now then, what will Japan do now on their J-Pop industry? Sure that they can go international, but I think the only way is to be mindful of the internet... the wider internet! Maybe someday, a Youtube sensation will come from Japan.

I think some people have said it here, jpop doesn't need to go international/compete with korea to be noticed by the world. They're making money here with their target audiences just fine.
Now if you want a change to the industry then I suggest you wait until another wave comes out because these powerful record labels aren't ready yet to move on. Whether that new wave will suit to your tastes in pop music is not my problem anymore.

[sa547]

Again, look up for Pink Lady and see why some Japanese record companies think it's not profitable to sell or pander to the domineering, politically-correct Western music market.

Unless it's L'arc n Ciel.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

Now then, what will Japan do now on their J-Pop industry? Sure that they can go international, but I think the only way is to be mindful of the internet... the wider internet! Maybe someday, a Youtube sensation will come from Japan.

Going international doesn't mean they need to change their style - that's actually the fallacy that many people inside and outside the industry don't seem to grasp. J-pop and J-idol may fail to have appeal to a Western audience, but the West is not all there is to "international". They should target Asia/Eastern countries where the culture is more similar and still a huge market for conservative/pure idols over sex sex sex, it should be a viable path and is suitable to how the Jpop industry currently operates mostly without having to go through a giant revolution but instead just with evolutionary steps (what Japanese industry likes to do with their businesses too), all they need to do is adjust their business expectations and practices when it comes to things like licensing and prices.

[sa547]

Reading this:
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/politics/ne...0300012-n1.htm

(translation)
http://lotsheep.tumblr.com/post/7221...kimoto-yasushi
http://lotsheep.tumblr.com/post/7221...kimoto-yasushi

Critics of the idol industry and of Prime Minister Abe may soon either have ammo for counter-arguments or mess their underpants.

[mdo7]

I was hoping my post on ANN and elsewhere could probably cause a stir about the K-pop/J-pop comparison and how they differ on the international level like on this thread.

Yes, I was the one that originally wrote up about the decline of J-pop and how K-pop is gaining more worldwide attention. I mean K-pop is gaining more global recognition and achievement then J-pop.

Maybe I should give some explanation on why I show concern about why J-pop is falling behind and K-pop is gaining the international music wave:

Did you guys know Billboard has it's own K-pop column, K-Town. Something J-pop nor J-rock was not able to achieve. It doesn't help that K-pop artists has performed live on Billboard studio in the US like JYJ and recently, Infinite did this. You don't see Arashi, AKB48, nor Hey! Say! JUMP performing on Billboard USA studio live. So K-pop has made this achievment.

I mean can you find me articles like these below for the US for J-pop:

2013 biggest selling K-pop songs in America

G-Dragon and SHINee first K-pop acts to rank on year end world albums chart

20 most viewed 2013 K-pop video on Youtube in USA

Yes, only K-pop was able to do this. I can never find anything like this for J-pop.

Did you know the media around the world give K-pop more coverage then J-pop nowaday.

Even KCON, the first K-pop/Hallyu convention has gotten mainstream US media attention:

Fuse TV in the US has already gave K-pop a lot of coverage, not one for J-pop which kind of sadden me:

Fuse TV also put up articles for K-pop:

Fuse TV-2012: the year K-pop crossover to USA

Fuse TV-15 moments that made K-pop hotter in 2013

Fuse TV recently did a week-long report on K-pop as in interviewing K-pop artists and giving American viewers insight on the K-pop industry. J-pop has never gotten any coverage from Fuse TV. I mean I never seen this huge amount of media coverage for J-pop on a worldwide scale, so Japan's music industry is missing an opportunity to expand worldwide. The US media has been given K-pop a lot of mainstream coverage late of 2013. The Grammy even recognized and acknowledge the power of K-pop, the Grammy never gave J-pop any recognition.

I want to tell you I've been an anime/manga fan for 7 years and I just got into K-pop just last year and I have to say this as a long time anime fans: South Korea play the marketing/globalization game better then Japan when it comes to music. I'm not hating on Japan, but I'm concern that Japan is falling behind and losing their global relevence on the pop culture scene, of course we got anime and manga and video game, but other part of Japanese pop culture don't get a lot of global attention while a lot of Korean pop culture is getting more global exposure.

It's not only music, but it's the same for the drama scene. J-dramas are not exported in mass number compared to their Korean and Taiwanese counterpart. I mean how many of you on animesuki watch Korean dramas, Japanese dramas, or any Asian dramas?? Because on streaming sites like Hulu, Crunchyroll, Dramafever, and Viki I can find over 1,000+ K-dramas, 55+ Taiwanese dramas, and less then 10 J-dramas. So Japan didn't cash in on the drama fad that K-drama caused around the world. Taiwan cashed in on the drama fad like in South America, several Taiwanese dramas was dubbed and broadcasted over there because K-dramas are so popular in Latin America. I never seen any J-dramas being broadcasted in Latin America, and I can't find any record of a J-dramas being broadcasted in Latin America. Taiwanese dramas cashed in on the K-drama fads, Japan never ride on/cash in on the drama fad K-drama caused.

So that's why I'm concern about Japan, I even read an article about Japan it's losing it's "coolness" and losing to Korea. So yeah I'm concern that Japan is not taking their Korean counterpart seriously. Also I'm worried that other Asian countries may try to replicate what South Korea did, I think Taiwan could rival South Korea in the future. However, right now, Taiwan doesn't have a lot of idol group that can hold candle against K-pop one, meaning Taiwan doesn't have a girl group that can rival Girls Generation nor 2NE1. The same for the boy group, there's not one from Taiwan that could rival Super Junior or BigBang. However, one Taiwanese group, JPM could probably rival TVXQ and JYJ. If Japan is not going to fix theur music industry, they'll fall behind and Taiwan could become the "2nd South Korea" to pull off a wave similar to the Hallyu in the future. Taiwan has already exported their dramas outside of Asia, so there is no doubt Taiwanese wave could go global in the future.

One last thing I'm very concern about Japan's music industry, Population Decline. I remember reading one article courtesy of Japan Today and this got my attention:

The fact of the matter is this: With Japan’s population in chronic decline, the size of its domestic market is bound to shrink – a fact acknowledged and recognized by the RIAJ itself. Groups like AKB48 may work domestically, but their appeal is limited by cultural factors—13-year-old girls jumping around in miniskirts may not necessarily fly with consumers outside of Japan. Catering to broader audiences both domestically and internationally will be key to the revival of the Japanese music industry.

The article is correct and I've been monitoring Japan's population decline, it's getting worse then most of people thought:

Everything you need to know about Japan's population decline

The Telegraph-Japan's population suffers biggest fall in history

The Diplomat-Japan's demographic nightmare

Bloomberg-Japan population fall in 2013 and becoming a challenge to Abe's administration

The BBC did a documentary that came out recently about Japan's population decline problem. It may surprise many of you on this website. Both Korea and Taiwan's population had also face decline. Korea's population decline was one of the reason why K-pop (and K-dramas) got globalized and exported outside of Asia. Taiwan may try to do the same. So if this population decline in Japan continue, the music market in Japan could be in danger.

I think it's inevitable that J-pop may end up being globalize in the future. Japan may end up exporting more J-dramas outside of Asia in the future because not only population decline but to stay competitive with their other Asian dramas counterpart. But keeping J-pop in Japan and not globalizing it is not safe and could be dangerous if being kept in Japan.

That's all I have to say. Some of you may not like my thought, but if you observe how K-pop is popping up more on US mainstream media (and worldwide), and J-pop is not. Then you know Japan is having problem of trying to keep their global relevence.

[Wild Goose]

Part of it is due to business. The Japanese culture is generally quite insular, and as a result you see their companies and businesses focused on Japan alone. That's slowly starting to change, but for the most part the business paradigm is basically "Market = Japan, overseas = whut?" Outside of the big car makers, and maybe Sony, your average business is looking locally. Hence all the questionable business decisions made in the past.

That said it's starting to change, but it's a slow thing - it'll take a few more generations before you get business leaders who're younger than the old guard who're looking outside. People like Hideo Kojima are outliers.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

but for the most part the business paradigm is basically "Market = Japan, overseas = whut?"

Actually it's more like "Market = Japan, overseas = USA". Japan is/was suffering from a typical No. 2 issue that they are just looking towards beating No.1 but didn't know the rest of the runners are either right behind them or already running on their side, hence the result of K-pop taking over them. This is why the Asian region had (and to a certain extent, the European market as well, the French seems to loves Japanese culture what with them holding the biggest Japanese cultural con in the world but you don't see them targeting the French market either) been completely ignored but when you get down to it the Asian region should have been the easiest market for Japan to bag and lock in but only until now do they take these market seriously due to economic reasons (decline of US market and raise of Asian market), and yes, the fact that the Koreans are now probably more popular in the rest of Asian in terms of mainstream acceptance.

Japan has a serious issue of US envy which made them blind to the rest of world. It is unfortunate that it takes the rest of the world overtaking them first before they realise this.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Part of it is due to business. The Japanese culture is generally quite insular, and as a result you see their companies and businesses focused on Japan alone. That's slowly starting to change, but for the most part the business paradigm is basically "Market = Japan, overseas = whut?" Outside of the big car makers, and maybe Sony, your average business is looking locally. Hence all the questionable business decisions made in the past.

That said it's starting to change, but it's a slow thing - it'll take a few more generations before you get business leaders who're younger than the old guard who're looking outside. People like Hideo Kojima are outliers.

there's not going to be a next generations because:

1. Population decline.

2. Not a lot of Japanese want to study outside of Japan, hence why we have Hikkimori and Parasite single. Also do you know what Galapago syndrome is. I remember reading from the Wall Street Journal about how most young Japanese workers don't want to work overseas.

Another article from Bloomberg even criticize Japan's Galapago Syndrome. But you are correct about Japan starting to change slowly, but it still not good enough, Japanese companies know their population are declining and the international markets will be the key for survival, they can't relied on domestic market. I'm still worried for Japan and their business view of the world.

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Actually it's more like "Market = Japan, overseas = USA". Japan is/was suffering from a typical No. 2 issue that they are just looking towards beating No.1 but didn't know the rest of the runners are either right behind them or already running on their side, hence the result of K-pop taking over them. This is why the Asian region had (and to a certain extent, the European market as well, the French seems to loves Japanese culture what with them holding the biggest Japanese cultural con in the world but you don't see them targeting the French market either) been completely ignored but when you get down to it the Asian region should have been the easiest market for Japan to bag and lock in but only until now do they take these market seriously due to economic reasons (decline of US market and raise of Asian market), and yes, the fact that the Koreans are now probably more popular in the rest of Asian in terms of mainstream acceptance.

Japan has a serious issue of US envy which made them blind to the rest of world. It is unfortunate that it takes the rest of the world overtaking them first before they realise this.

That doesn't surprise me, I think Japan's firms/companies has a case of inferiority (or superiority, if you want to add that) Complex hence why they seem to want to take the #1 position from US, but it caused a big drawback they seem to not take South Korea as serious competitor. Japan seem to ignore the international market that could earn them the most money. As I said, the Korean are playing this game better then Japan. I mean Foreign Affairs magazine has listed South Korea as a potential countries for foreign investment. Even President Park-Geun Hye has asked global CEOs to invest into South Korea. I don't see Japanese CEO or Prime Minister Abe asking global CEO to invest into Japan given Japan's xenophobic issue.


EDIT: I like to add that 2013 was the year K-pop/Hallyu/K-culture has been gaining more mainstream headlines around the world.

[aldw]

I'm not surprised how far K-Pop and related cultural products have gotten in global popularity, not simply from the marketing aspect but also from how well made they are. Take K-dramas for example, from my observation in terms of production values and acting they are way ahead of equivalents from Japan or Taiwan, and only the high-budget TV shows or films from mainland China approach that level of presentation quality TBO, and the Koreans are pretty consistent with that.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by aldw

I'm not surprised how far K-Pop and related cultural products have gotten in global popularity, not simply from the marketing aspect but also from how well made they are. Take K-dramas for example, from my observation in terms of production values and acting they are way ahead of equivalents from Japan or Taiwan, and only the high-budget TV shows or films from mainland China approach that level of presentation quality TBO, and the Koreans are pretty consistent with that.

Yeah that and it's a lot better then most of the music coming out in the US. I mean the music in the US ain't good as it used to be. I only like a few western artists today (Taylor Swift, The Wanted, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Little Mix). I seem to know more about K-pop then the music coming out in the US today (and J-pop).

I like to add that Taiwanese drama can probably hold candle to their Korean counterpart, I do agree Taiwanese drama quality is a little weaker then K-dramas, but I think Taiwanese dramas can have the same appeal like Korean dramas.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by mdo7

there's not going to be a next generations because:

1. Population decline.

2. Not a lot of Japanese want to study outside of Japan, hence why we have Hikkimori and Parasite single. Also do you know what Galapago syndrome is. I remember reading from the Wall Street Journal about how most young Japanese workers don't want to work overseas.

Another article from Bloomberg even criticize Japan's Galapago Syndrome. But you are correct about Japan starting to change slowly, but it still not good enough, Japanese companies know their population are declining and the international markets will be the key for survival, they can't relied on domestic market. I'm still worried for Japan and their business view of the world.

The exaggeration contained in the above quote, especially the bolded bit, is going off the scale