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Old 2013-11-09, 04:00   Link #61
Poetic Justice
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Goddamn, Doflamingo is so deliciously evil! I love it!
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Old 2013-11-09, 11:23   Link #62
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Man is not perfect.
Believing in the best of mankind is good thing but don't ignore the darker nature of man. If you do you do so at your own risk.
He could have done a lot against Daflamingo. Consult the nation and let them decide if they want to be under a Celestial Dragon or fight. The nation was loyal to the King(they gave him 10 billion Beli because the trusted him). Call on a Yonkou like White Beard to protect them. At least this way it will give him time to prepare for the future battle that is to come. Request a meeting with the WG on Dafamingo. Consult your own advisers for options. You say there is nothing he could have done but he never tried. He followed Daflamingo's orders like he had no choice.
None of those were options since all would have resulted in an attack by Doflamingo long before anything could be done. His threat to the king include seeking outsdie help. If he told the people about Doflamingo, he attacks; if he tries to get outside help, he attacks. Doflamingo did not give the king the luxury of asking his people what they wanted or looking for help from the outside. The king beleived All would have resulted in an immediate attack. And how long would it take for help to arrive if he did manage to reach out? Not soon enough to prevent Doflamingo from doing signficant damage. His only options were to either give in to Doflamingo's demands, or choose for himself to fight Doflamingo.

And he DID consult his advisors and they were the ones saying they should fight back which he rejected.
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Old 2013-11-09, 14:52   Link #63
JonSnow
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I hope D block and Riku's flashbacks gets done in a chapter or 2. I'm calling this in advance: Usoland will be the hero of Dressrosa and will get his own statue made by the dwarves, next to Noland.
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Old 2013-11-09, 22:57   Link #64
Magin
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Let's see...

Someone related one way or another to the WG reeking havoc? Check
People dying, and in general Bad Things Happening? Check
Someone related to a new character dying? Check
Flashback arc to show the aforementioned? Check

Despite what's been speculated either way, we're getting all the usual factors for someone to join the crew... the only question now is if we're going to get a Shirahoshi/Vivi ending instead.

Oh yes, Dofla is showing that he is most likely the strongest shichibukai, though I almost suspect Mihawk is at least on par with him, if not stronger. Luffy's got his work more than cut out for him this time.
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Old 2013-11-09, 23:08   Link #65
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
Let's see...

Someone related one way or another to the WG reeking havoc? Check
People dying, and in general Bad Things Happening? Check
Someone related to a new character dying? Check
Flashback arc to show the aforementioned? Check

Despite what's been speculated either way, we're getting all the usual factors for someone to join the crew... the only question now is if we're going to get a Shirahoshi/Vivi ending instead.

Oh yes, Dofla is showing that he is most likely the strongest shichibukai, though I almost suspect Mihawk is at least on par with him, if not stronger. Luffy's got his work more than cut out for him this time.
It was almost (imo) obvious shirohoshi wouldn't join. As for ViVi although she didn't join we got Robin. I think it's about time ( or even long overdue) for a new strawhat.

I think Candidates to join the strawhats ( either as strawhat or alliance):

- Cavendish
- Rebecca ( just because ViVi didn't join , Oda might want to make her join as to not be completely parallel to arabasta arc).
- Bartolomeo
- Maybe Law
- That lady with Sanji ( forgot her name). Her powers are very unique, so who knows.
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Old 2013-11-10, 00:03   Link #66
strategos
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haven't been in the forums for a long time. Not sure if this has been talked before. But this arc is most certainly a reverse event of what would had happened in Allabasta if Vivi didn't went out to the sea and didn't got Luffy.
So it got me thinking, could it be possible that the family of Crocodile was the one who was going to get the kingdom of Allabasta and that is why the original family never left? Could that had been the secret Crocodile been hiding?
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Old 2013-11-10, 00:59   Link #67
grey_1960
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
None of those were options since all would have resulted in an attack by Doflamingo long before anything could be done. His threat to the king include seeking outsdie help. If he told the people about Doflamingo, he attacks; if he tries to get outside help, he attacks. Doflamingo did not give the king the luxury of asking his people what they wanted or looking for help from the outside. The king beleived All would have resulted in an immediate attack. And how long would it take for help to arrive if he did manage to reach out? Not soon enough to prevent Doflamingo from doing signficant damage. His only options were to either give in to Doflamingo's demands, or choose for himself to fight Doflamingo.

And he DID consult his advisors and they were the ones saying they should fight back which he rejected.
Its only you who doesn't see any options
Yes they are options they are alternative to King Rikku's decision. This is not a black and white decision. It is a gray area were regardless of what King Rikku does people are going to die. My Yonkou(white Beard) idea is one of the best options I think. I would make contact with White Beard and request his First Division Marco Phoenix (Flyer) to get here has soon has possible has a representative of your crew. If war breaks out between Daflamingo and the Kingdom then so be it. Daflamingo was never going to honor his agreement so who care if he attacks. Just hold out till the calvary(White Beard Crew) arrives.

You have a solution?
You can criticize my plan all you want but what would you do if you were King Rikku and Daflamingo showed up one night and told you his demands? Would you fight or give into his demand? Keep in mind King Rikku gave into Dafamingo's Demand he is at the bottom of the Colosseum about to be turned into a toy, has a dead Daughter(Or Daughter In Law) Scarlett, Grand child (Rebecca) fighting in the Colosseum for revenge, Nation that was over thrown, citizens and foreigners alike being taken secretly against their will and to be turned into toys, the nation moved from a loving king to a tyrant, his name tarnished, a looming battle that he sought to avoid is now on the horizon, and his son is a toy. Do you have a better idea then mine or King Rikku's?
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Old 2013-11-10, 04:53   Link #68
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Interessting theory, but I don't find it very likely.
The history lesson from Doffy sounded more like: Royal families left -> People think they need a new king -> People elect new king.
Since the Nefertari never left, the people never needed to elect a new family.

Though there are some issues about this story which make me wonder: Why did the celestial dragons allow, that their people elect a new royal family? Wouldn't it make more sense for an aristocratic society to install a new king by top-down-order?

BTW, are the Nefertari celestial dragons?
By the definition of celestial dragons technically yes.

Celestial dragons are the descendant of the 20 families that formed World government after ( probably) defeating that unknown kingdom.

19 families left for that new place but Nefertari's didn't.

This could also explain how King nefertari knew about what was on the stone writings.
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Old 2013-11-10, 17:51   Link #69
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Its only you who doesn't see any options
Yes they are options they are alternative to King Rikku's decision. This is not a black and white decision. It is a gray area were regardless of what King Rikku does people are going to die. My Yonkou(white Beard) idea is one of the best options I think. I would make contact with White Beard and request his First Division Marco Phoenix (Flyer) to get here has soon has possible has a representative of your crew. If war breaks out between Daflamingo and the Kingdom then so be it. Daflamingo was never going to honor his agreement so who care if he attacks. Just hold out till the calvary(White Beard Crew) arrives.
And that plan would have failed. King Riku doesn't exactly have Whitebeard on speed dial; he would have to send a messanger which would probably take days or even weeks just to contact him, much less get him to agree to assist. And meanwhile Dressrosa is burning down because the king violated Doflamingo's rules

Quote:
You have a solution?
You can criticize my plan all you want but what would you do if you were King Rikku and Daflamingo showed up one night and told you his demands? Would you fight or give into his demand? Keep in mind King Rikku gave into Dafamingo's Demand he is at the bottom of the Colosseum about to be turned into a toy, has a dead Daughter(Or Daughter In Law) Scarlett, Grand child (Rebecca) fighting in the Colosseum for revenge, Nation that was over thrown, citizens and foreigners alike being taken secretly against their will and to be turned into toys, the nation moved from a loving king to a tyrant, his name tarnished, a looming battle that he sought to avoid is now on the horizon, and his son is a toy. Do you have a better idea then mine or King Rikku's?
Biggest fallacy you make is using meta-knowledge to determine your actions, using knowledge that the king did not have. you are basically speaking with the benefit of hindsight. The king did not know what Doflamingo was really planning and thus could not account for that. And as we saw, the king was preparing to betray doflamingo should it come to that; his plans however failed.
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Old 2013-11-10, 23:58   Link #70
grey_1960
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First you are stuck with opinion on how it was the king had no choice that fine, that your right. Second you never answered the question. What would you do? A Pirate( and a Shichibukai at the time) from a prestige family walks in one night and says to your face the demand. Do you Fight or do you give into the demand? Third this argument is going no were because I am arguing with you on whether and idea of mine is right or not. You are giving me only grim ending to my plans and we both know the best you can do is give your own opinion and a success rate.

The Decision without a big fallacy
Whether you approve of it or not this is just something I would do. Why? Because If I were King Rikku and some pirate with a special title told me his demand in the middle of the night it would not illicit fear or respect. It would make me want to fight and question everything he just said that night. Whats this Shichibukai up to? Why does he want the country all of sudden? Extorting me for 10 billion beli when he is a celestial dragon, why? Why give me an option to pay instead of just taking it buy force? Does he have the ability to take my country by force? Has he done this to other countries? Why did he black mail the WG into giving him a Shichibukai title? Can a man who blackmailed the WG into giving him a pirate title like Shichibukai even be trusted? Oh if you are looking for a big Fallacy on my decision all my information came from Chapter 727 Page 8 and 9(http://readms.com/r/one_piece/727/2130/8) Now you can judge and critic all you want but this is what I would do.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2013-11-11 at 00:10.
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Old 2013-11-11, 01:11   Link #71
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Putting aside the current argument, I just noticed this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
In the Alabasta arch it was just Luffy and Croc.

Uh... what? So does that make Vivi chopped liver, now? The same Vivi who took such measures to prevent war like working undercover in her enemy's organization? Or leading Luffy and co. through the necessary towns in Alabasta to reach Crocodile in the first place? As well as actively still trying to stop the civil war despite it already starting? If that doesn't prove how central a character she was to that whole arc, I dunno what does.....
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Old 2013-11-11, 06:50   Link #72
nicepace
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Uh... what? So does that make Vivi chopped liver, now?...
I think what grey_1960 mean is the present of the big guy, like the present of Admiral and CPO in the scene right now, may could influence the story or could add a bigger plot in the story.
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Old 2013-11-11, 16:31   Link #73
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I hope whoever gets the Mera Mera fruit becomes one of the new shichibukai, been a while since we had a logia.
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Old 2013-11-11, 17:16   Link #74
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So what are we expecting on the next cover story, Caribou getting tortured by Kaido's henchman?
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Old 2013-11-11, 17:44   Link #75
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Originally Posted by JonSnow View Post
So what are we expecting on the next cover story, Caribou getting tortured by Kaido's henchman?
caribiou spilling his gut about mermaid princess to kaidou.

which will further setup kaidou as the frist yonkou luffy will face off with.
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Old 2013-11-11, 21:57   Link #76
strategos
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
By the definition of celestial dragons technically yes.

Celestial dragons are the descendant of the 20 families that formed World government after ( probably) defeating that unknown kingdom.

19 families left for that new place but Nefertari's didn't.

This could also explain how King nefertari knew about what was on the stone writings.
Couldn't it be possible that then Nefertari family never left because they knew who might the people of alabasta would have elected in their placed? Fearing that something bad would had happened?
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Old 2013-11-11, 23:56   Link #77
marvelB
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Originally Posted by nicepace View Post
I think what grey_1960 mean is the present of the big guy, like the present of Admiral and CPO in the scene right now, may could influence the story or could add a bigger plot in the story.

In that case, Alabasta had Smoker and Tashigi's involvement, or I assume they aren't counted due to their (at the time) lower ranks? I mean, at least they actively tried to stop the war, as well.....


Anyway, the spoiler summary came out, so it's the usual deal!
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