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Old 2004-12-05, 19:44   Link #1041
Jorin
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Hey guys, I'm also new here but despite there being 1000 posts on this topic I thought I'd say hi anyway.

I agree that there could have been a bit mroe character development in this anime, but at the same time I thought what they had was okay too. I really wasn't disappointed with anything about this show. I found it so gripping I watched it all in one sitting, haha.

Spoiler for ending:
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Old 2004-12-07, 21:20   Link #1042
Elbowlick
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More Nana's Everyday Life!





If you don't know who Pedobear is, look here:
http://otakubooty.bootyproject.org/s...d_article=5012



More Nana's life!

Sorry for the blood. Poor Nana. : (
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Old 2004-12-07, 21:24   Link #1043
Colonel-
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LOL that is SO WRONG!
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Old 2004-12-11, 20:42   Link #1044
Sushi-Y
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Not sure if anyone already said something similiar to this, but here's my two cents on the anime and the possibility for a sequel.

When I finished watching the anime for the first time, I got the feeling that it was somewhat rushed towards the end. That is, up to the part where the anime and the manga branches out, the story has been pacing itself nicely. But after that, everything speeds up to a climax and before you know it, "Das Ende". Now, I don't think the anime was bad, in fact, I liked how they were able to give the anime as much closure as it got in such few episodes.

I'm not sure what the original plan for the anime was, but it almost felt as if they were forced to end it at 13 episodes since short animes typically ran for 13 episodes, while normal length ones go for 25-26 or 50-51 (I checked the AT-X site, which is the Japanese TV channel that aired Elfen Lied, and it indeed ran for 13 eps, and then replaced by another show in it's timeslot that's also slated to run for 13). As we know, even if the anime went the manga route, at the time the anime was being produced (probably around the beginning of 2004), there was probably barely enough material from the manga just to cover the 13 episodes, much less continue on to 26 or more. in fact, if the timeline checks out (I might be wrong), around the time when the anime was being produced (late 2003-early 2004), the manga was still at the point where the anime eventually branches out from. So for the anime to fill 13 episodes, the last few episodes had to be created to not only follow from the manga story, but also tie things up. Basically, the anime ended so soon probably not because it wanted to, but because there wasn't enough materials to keep going. (Or perhaps both)

As for the possibility of a sequel, by looking at where the manga is now (further and further away from the anime story), the only way for this to work would have to be something along the line of Full Metal Alchemist, where anime and manga branched out and went on with two different storylines. Otherwise they'd have to find some ingenious way to somehow tie the anime's ending (Kouta about to open the door for the silhouette, possibly Lucy/Nyuu) back into the manga story somewhere. An OVA is more likely than another TV season because OVAs don't have any episode quotas to fill. It also depends on how long the manga's story goes on for. If there was a sequel to the anime though, I'd be happy. (*whisper* I like the anime Lucy better)
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Old 2004-12-12, 04:52   Link #1045
Icehawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Dr.Ozzie"
I loved the ending so much that (once I recovered from the shock of it all) I did a little dance celebrating Lucy's good health. The guy I was watching this with also loved the ending, but for different reasons. The whole deal about the Diclonius and humankind destruction and all that jazz made for a cliffhanger for him, which I didn't really care about at all because Woohoo she's okay, she's okay, none of it matters because she's okay! It seems to me that either way, whether it's seen as a dark, unexplained cliffhanger or a tidy, happy reunion, there's something to like about this ending. I actually hope they don't make more of this series (what are the chances of that, anyway?). Especially if, as people are saying, the dominant personality is now Nyuu... yuck.
I hate to burst your bubble man but you have no idea that the sillouette is actually Nyu/Lucy. It could very well be that young scientist chick that set out to look for Kouta after finding his picture in the binder she dropped. Personally I would kinda prefer if Lucy was dead. Though she was a very interesting character she WAS also a cold blooded killer who didnt think twice to abuse her power and mutilate anyone she felt like. People like that quite frankly don't really deserve to live even if they had some good inside them, she chose to embrace that evil within her and abuse her power and for that she HAS to pay the piper one way or the other at some point.

Now don't get me wrong, im not saying I would be pissed if she did infact survive as she was an interesting character and Nyu was really adorable and all that, just that I would prefer it from a moral perspective if she was dead, or at least have her without the ability to use her Vectors now since her other horn got shot off. If she is to live then she has to be limited in some way from now on since giving her a get of jail free card without some kind of penalty for her crimes would just be wrong.

As for what I think of the ending myself, Im also quite happy with it but not for the same reasons, for me it was that she and Kouta were finally able to make their peace and have a heartfelt, tearful goodbye and then seeing her go out with the bang she had coming. That sillouette at the door MIGHT be her, but we cannot say for sure one way or the other.

Last edited by Icehawk; 2004-12-12 at 07:27.
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Old 2004-12-12, 15:39   Link #1046
Keitawukong
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My english is far from perfect, sorry if I make some stupid grammar mistake...

Quote:
It could very well be that young scientist chick that set out to look for Kouta after finding his picture in the binder she dropped.
Well, that's kinda unlikely... She's not even allowed to take a bath, I don't think Chief Kakuzawa would let her get out of the laboratory to spread freely all the information she knows... He almost killed her once to prevent that...
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Old 2004-12-12, 19:08   Link #1047
Sushi-Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icehawk
Personally I would kinda prefer if Lucy was dead. Though she was a very interesting character she WAS also a cold blooded killer who didnt think twice to abuse her power and mutilate anyone she felt like. People like that quite frankly don't really deserve to live even if they had some good inside them, she chose to embrace that evil within her and abuse her power and for that she HAS to pay the piper one way or the other at some point.
Well, if it were as shallow as that, then the anime wouldn't be much fun to watch now won't it? The reason why some animes are so great is because of their ability to trigger post-conventional thinking from the viewers. The reason why Lucy became who she is was explained pretty well in the anime. The fact that she was abused, bullied on, looked down on, and the fact that people called her a monster when she was only a small kid left a deep impression on her, and later on, Kouta's "betrayal" to her only served to push over the edge in thinking "humanity deserves to die". And her time at the facility until her escape only reinforces the belief "they think I'm a monster and will kill me without a thought, then I'll just have to kill them first." That's also why she only showed her true feelings when she's with Kouta in the last episode because he was the only person who's ever really cared for her. I think the reason for Nyuu to exist is to show the viewers what Lucy would/could have been if she had been growing up with a normal life (well, plus knowing the basics like talking and going to the washroom). Anyways, IMHO it's just not as simple as "She killed people in cold blood, she deserves to be punished" like an episode of America's Most Wanted or something, that'd be boring.
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Old 2004-12-13, 07:47   Link #1048
Icehawk
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Quote:
Well, if it were as shallow as that, then the anime wouldn't be much fun to watch now won't it? The reason why some animes are so great is because of their ability to trigger post-conventional thinking from the viewers.
This has nothing to do with anything being shallow or boring. Im fully aware of the the complex situations and interactions of the characters in the show. However, their are limits to how much you can think outside the box about something before you end up in the realm of obscurity and stupidity.

Quote:
The fact that she was abused, bullied on, looked down on, and the fact that people called her a monster when she was only a small kid left a deep impression on her, and later on, Kouta's "betrayal" to her only served to push over the edge in thinking "humanity deserves to die".


By this ridiculous logic the shooters at Columbine Hightschool were completely justified in killing those thirteen people. The fact she was bullied and pushed into becoming bitter does not make the choice to embrace her evil side a right one and it does not justify the crimes she committed. If this were true then alot of killers and butchers throughout history should just get off scot free because "they had a terrible childhood and were pushed that way"

Quote:
I think the reason for Nyuu to exist is to show the viewers what Lucy would/could have been if she had been growing up with a normal life (well, plus knowing the basics like talking and going to the washroom).
I agree with you there, It would be nice if Nyuu could live on, but Lucy is a different story.

Quote:
Anyways, IMHO it's just not as simple as "She killed people in cold blood, she deserves to be punished" like an episode of America's Most Wanted or something, that'd be boring.
Of course its not that simple, I honestly felt her pain and rage at certain times (Like when she was forced to watch the puppy get beat to death by those assholes) however that doesnt excuse her for just going out and killing those random innocent people and families like she did. What would you do if she came to YOUR house and just out of the blue started slaughtering you and your entire family without provocation? Would you just sit there and think "Oh its ok, she had a bad childhood sure its ok if she takes her juvanile rage out on us." Please. Regardless of how bad your childhood is, that can never excuse brutally slaying innocent people that had never done anything too you which is unfortunatly what Lucy did many times. Its tragic that her early life was filled with such abuse and sadness and Im not saying she should just be arrested or tried or anything stupid like that, just that she should pay some kind of a price, because like it or not, she DID go over the top and even Kouta himself said that he would never forgive her for just killing his sister and father like that. What she did was WRONG, regardless of the influences behind it all.

Last edited by Icehawk; 2004-12-13 at 08:43.
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Old 2004-12-13, 22:06   Link #1049
Reaver4k
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I get the feelingwipe out humanity feeling prity much every day for some reason or another,

And Yes I do know what it feels like to be pushed around, and how much you want to kill those bastards who are doing it, allthough that feeling has not happened in around 5-6 years or so.

And those little fuckers who killed the puppy deserved to die. And alot of those people just had it comming.
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Old 2004-12-13, 22:21   Link #1050
Forbin
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Except his sister
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Old 2004-12-13, 23:17   Link #1051
Reaver4k
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Yeah his sister was a cold blooded killing.
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Old 2004-12-13, 23:22   Link #1052
Dr.Ozzie
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Ice, sometimes logic doesn't apply to stories which are meant to appeal to your emotions.

If someone were to make a movie about the Columbine shooters and present it the way Lucy was presented in Elfen Lied, you can bet that we'd be feeling for them. Sorry, but my mind is made up.

Also, I believe I mentioned I'm not really a fan of Nyuu.
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Old 2004-12-14, 00:00   Link #1053
Sushi-Y
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To reply to Icehawk, I understand your reasoning why Lucy should be "brought to justice", so to say. The point I'm trying to make is, I don't think it would be very accurate to affix real life standards onto fictional characters, especially when they have superpowers. Imagine if in the real world everyone had vectors - there'd be heads popping and limbs flying all over everywhere. We've all wished at some point in our lives that someone would simply die or go away."Man I wish that dumbass kid would shut up" while on the bus, or "that dumbnut teacher failed me" while getting a test back. Except in Lucy's case, the people around her actually do get killed. And that's what made Lucy "humane", in a sense, because we can relate to her feelings of deep hatred for certain peoples (which, in Lucy's case, almost everyone because they treat her like a monster, so she kill them, which reinforces their belief of her as a monster, vicious cycle). Plus, if we want to start looking at anime characters with a realistic view, tons more anime characters should "face justice" before Lucy (ie. No.35/Mariko for her indifference to life, Bando for his reckless for other's life other than his own, every bad guy in Dragon Ball Z especially those who blew up whole cities or in some instances, entire planets, hell, even some of the good guys too should die too)

The point for Lucy's character is to bring a moral dilemma to the viewers "here's a cold blooded killer, here's what she is like now, but wait here's the reason why she's like this, and here's the reason why she's killed, and here's what she would've been like if she didn't become like this", basically, they took a generic "bad guy", make the viewer become familiar and attached to the character, to become sympathetic to her cause (humanity treat me like trash because of my difference/power, so I treat them the same with my power). Also, animes assume the viewers are pre-disposed towards the main characters, that is, as they feel attached to the characters, the viewers begin to hope for a good end for them, basically, it's the innate "goodness" of humanity toward others. That's why some people said "Oh that shadow in the end there is Lucy/Nyuu". In effect, people will start to believe that Lucy really isn't a "bad guy", but a good person at heart who has had a tragic life.

Actually, my "ridiculous logic" is "girls get off easier than guys", imagine if Lucy was a Luke or something (boobs *disappear*, curvacious body *disappear*, big teary eyes *disppear*) how much sympathy now? Damn.

Getting on a boring talk here, anyways, I simply replied before because I thought I saw a "killing is bad, bad people should die" simpleton. I didn't, but I still love my killer chick Lucy.
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Old 2004-12-14, 08:30   Link #1054
Icehawk
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We HAVE to look at fictional characters with at least some level of realistic view. Everyone does because we have to find someway to relate to them otherwise the characters would be nothing. Granted some anime and movies are not meant to be taken so seriously and are just for fun like average cartoons, but others such as Elfen Lied are VERY serious with heavy moral dillemas in them like you said. Moral dillemas are exactly what Im talking about in regards to Lucy. As I said I really like her character, and I felt deeply for her in those times she was abused and ridiculed, however, the creators of the show also took her character to the next level (which is a good thing as it adds more depth) by getting her to go TOO far and having her take her anger out on a number of innocent people and IMO, they did this specifically for the purpose of getting the viewer to REALLY think about the character before passing final judgement. Remember those random families that got slaughtered just so she could occupy their house for a few days? and when she heartlessly ripped Nana's arms and legs off? When it comes to such serious subject matter like that, I cannot help BUT look at it from a realistic and moral viewpoint.

Quote:
Plus, if we want to start looking at anime characters with a realistic view, tons more anime characters should "face justice" before Lucy (ie. No.35/Mariko for her indifference to life, Bando for his reckless for other's life other than his own, every bad guy in Dragon Ball Z especially those who blew up whole cities or in some instances, entire planets, hell, even some of the good guys too should die too)
Those characters DID "face justice". Mariko got her arm blown off then got blown up, Bando got his arms and eyes ruined and then got easily bitchslapped a second time by "his prey". Most of the scientists or others who abused the diclonius at the facility along with director Kurama also faced their "justice" so to speak by getting killed off. Every action has consequences of some kind. From a moral perspective, something, "should" happen to them and in most cases it actually does. LOL hell come to think of it, even the characters in DBZ all faced the music by getting killed off (some of them multiple times, good and bad) or having the crap beaten out of them at various points of the show.

BAH, but anyways enough rambling. In Lucy's case, some of her killing was understandable, but others times like when she just killed those families right in their own houses, along with Kouta's sister and his father right in front of his eyes, that was going too far and so morally she "should" pay a price, and based on what happens in the last episode, she DID pay her price by chosing to leave Kouta and face the firing squad. Thats my take on it at least.

She MAY have survived but we don't know for sure yet. If she did survive thats fine with me because she is a cool character and in the end was genuinly sorry for what she did, but if she does come back I think it would be better if she no longer had the ability to use her Vectors or at least be limited with them.

Quote:
Actually, my "ridiculous logic" is "girls get off easier than guys",
Hehe, if Elfen Lied was anything to go by its that girl characters DO NOT get off easier than guys. Thats another thing that made this show interesting in comparison to alot of other shows, it broke that tradition.

Last edited by Icehawk; 2004-12-14 at 14:44.
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Old 2004-12-14, 22:49   Link #1055
Jorin
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**UNMARKED SPOILERS AHEAD**
(I saw other unmarked spoilers here so I'm working on the assumption that after 1000 replies we're assuming that people reading up to this point will know the story)

I really like how Lucy developed. I tend to agree with Sushi that since she had such an abusive past it's realistic to think she would kill people in that way. The people that had controlled her and abused her were just pests to her and she got rid of them in the same way we'd pour boiling water on an ant colony or wasp nest near our houses.

Remember she didn't think of herself as a human either ("humans are foolish"). She saw herself as a different species so that would affect the way she carried out her little war. I also agree with Sushi that since she has a superpower it really changes the way she sees things and acts.

It was only Kouta that made an emotional connection with her and brought her back to reality. This was what I thought was neat about her. She didn't mind slaughtering people who were in her way, but she had feelings for people once she was able to care about them.

Was she cruel to Nana, who's the same species as she is? Yes, but again, super powers + being in danger of getting captured = using superpwers to escape. Also, Lucy + angry = limbs flying. It's just how things work.

I think she was remorseful for what she did to Kouta and his family but not really towards the countless people she killed (except maybe the people whose houses she broke into). As I said they were controlling her and getting in her way. She was trying to survive.

I really liked the last scene she had with Kouta. People said it was cheesy and unrealistic but to me it was a neat display of character development. I like how this anime put its characters in such bizarre situations. It makes it harder to judge their actions and choices but it's certainly interesting.
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Old 2004-12-15, 16:02   Link #1056
Forbin
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They hated it because there wasn't any horizontal action going on.

Also don't hate lucy. Look at Nana, she was raised in the lab all that time and when she got beat up a bit...RED EYES here we come.
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Old 2004-12-15, 17:30   Link #1057
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin
They hated it because there wasn't any horizontal action going on.

Also don't hate lucy. Look at Nana, she was raised in the lab all that time and when she got beat up a bit...RED EYES here we come.
Well, the interesting thing is when you compare Nana to Lucy, they both got experimented upon and both went through some serious suffering. Licy started killing everyone off while Nana didn't I can't remember Nana hurting anybody throughout the anime. somehow I think this is trying to tell either one of two things : 1. If they have in such dire circomstances something to rely on (in essence her "father") they can keep their sanity OR 2. It could've been in Nana's character not to be violent even hough she herself didn't see anything else in her entire life.
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Old 2004-12-15, 17:43   Link #1058
Dr Yuya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icehawk
I hate to burst your bubble man but you have no idea that the sillouette is actually Nyu/Lucy. It could very well be that young scientist chick that set out to look for Kouta after finding his picture in the binder she dropped. Personally I would kinda prefer if Lucy was dead. Though she was a very interesting character she WAS also a cold blooded killer who didnt think twice to abuse her power and mutilate anyone she felt like. People like that quite frankly don't really deserve to live even if they had some good inside them, she chose to embrace that evil within her and abuse her power and for that she HAS to pay the piper one way or the other at some point.

Now don't get me wrong, im not saying I would be pissed if she did infact survive as she was an interesting character and Nyu was really adorable and all that, just that I would prefer it from a moral perspective if she was dead, or at least have her without the ability to use her Vectors now since her other horn got shot off. If she is to live then she has to be limited in some way from now on since giving her a get of jail free card without some kind of penalty for her crimes would just be wrong.

As for what I think of the ending myself, Im also quite happy with it but not for the same reasons, for me it was that she and Kouta were finally able to make their peace and have a heartfelt, tearful goodbye and then seeing her go out with the bang she had coming. That sillouette at the door MIGHT be her, but we cannot say for sure one way or the other.
I most definately agree. I had all but given up on finding anyone who watched Elfen Lied and sensibly saw Lucy for what she really was. For that I congratulate you.
I've seen this "I had a bad childhood and so now I rip peoples heads off and it's okay" mentality in other anime before, and fans always seem to find those villians to just be "misunderstood". Soujiro (Rurouni Kenshin), Gaara (Naruto), and now Lucy, who is the worst of them all. It's not right, and it doesn't even begin to justify anything, but so many fans buy into it with sympathy. I just don't get it, I guess it's just a "thing" with the younger generation today.
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Old 2004-12-15, 22:10   Link #1059
evil-samurai
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before i start watching this series , i just wanted to know if it has a crappy ending??? , i hate getting into an anime , only to find out that the ending really sucks
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Old 2004-12-15, 22:32   Link #1060
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil-samurai
before i start watching this series , i just wanted to know if it has a crappy ending??? , i hate getting into an anime , only to find out that the ending really sucks
No it has a good ending, the anime is well-done even though a few things could be guessed to easilly. Besides I'm betting after a few minutes into the show you won't care about the ending any more, Elfen Lied is rather addictive (not to mention slightly violent ). Lucy, the main character is so interesting you'll sit out the entire show anyway;
Oh, best not to watch this show with your mom and dad around, they might not approve
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