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Old 2006-06-13, 14:20   Link #241
lavielove
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A good point out. But since that's not in the anime yet, it's a prediction.
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Old 2006-06-14, 02:15   Link #242
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I just thought that shop girl was basically Tenko in human form since Samatarou became human form. And I still believe in that.

I'm just wondering how Samatarou got his powers back.
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Old 2006-06-14, 02:22   Link #243
Conan-san
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I'm of the belief that I have no idea what the Bizaro World was.

But it was good in any case.
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Old 2006-06-15, 05:00   Link #244
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Oh wow, this series is so unbelievably cute! I think I will keep following this.
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Old 2006-06-15, 05:18   Link #245
physics223
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Yes, it definitely is. Among the best this season, I should also add.
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Old 2006-06-15, 05:42   Link #246
npal
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Well, not as good as Ouran or Suzumiya, but I'm a sucker for that kind of series, and Tenko rules Although the animation alienates me at times, it's not bad until now. At least ep 4 was far better than the previous ones.
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Old 2006-06-15, 06:59   Link #247
physics223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
Well, not as good as Ouran [...] but I'm a sucker for that kind of series, and Tenko rules Although the animation alienates me at times, it's not bad until now. At least ep 4 was far better than the previous ones.
That looks better.
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Old 2006-06-15, 07:23   Link #248
npal
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No it doesn't. Not to mention that Suzumiya is a bit better than Ouran, according to the majority at least
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Old 2006-06-15, 07:28   Link #249
physics223
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The majority isn't necessarily right all of the time ... remember that Hitler had the side of the 'majority.'
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Old 2006-06-15, 07:46   Link #250
npal
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Who said Hitler was wrong?

Well, if you honestly believe that Kazoku is better than Suzumiya, I don't think we have much to talk on the subject I mean, it's already past the point of no-return to say that Suzumiya isn't good Not to mention that KyoAni's level of attention to detail in Suzumiya alone makes most other series pale in comparison.
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Old 2006-06-15, 08:27   Link #251
physics223
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I didn't say that Kamisama was better than Suzumiya (yet). I meant Ouran was better than Suzumiya. Suzumiya isn't good ... it's half-assed anime, IMO. I personally say it sucks, and it wasn't good. Point of no-return? Heh.

(Although I will try it again soon despite my gut feeling telling me to go against shit. At least if I did thoroughly hated it more, I could say I watched more episodes.)

Is animation the only driving factor of a series? No. It doesn't follow that because KyoAni's level of attention to detail in Suzumiya is more than other series that it's ultimately better than them. Non sequitur.

I think Kazoku's good. I think it's better than Suzumiya. But that's me, of course. However, I'd like to simply debunk your hypothesis that just because it's popular doesn't mean it's beautiful. Again, it does not follow.
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Old 2006-06-15, 08:29   Link #252
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If I have a lunch with the burger everyday,sure one day I will definately hate burgers.So sometimes I would try fried-rice or sushii or whatever to take a break ^^;; or try them alternatively.
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Old 2006-06-15, 09:36   Link #253
npal
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Well, actually animation and level of detail IS Suzumiya's strong point. For me, each episode is better than the previous. See, the point is I can tell you WHY I like or don't like something.

I can tell you why Fate started nice and why I think that it sucks for me now (plotholes, poor character development, animation quality seriously dropping). Some people choose to disregard all those, a number of game players and people with a huge amount of suspecion of disbelief invested on that show. And no, playing the game to fill the holes is not supposed to happen, unless you've made the show JUST for game players in the first place (which was apparently the case).

I can also tell you why I thought Kazoku started average at most but episode 4 impressed me enough to keep watching it. Kazoku has mediocre animation. Not bad, not excellent either, although I admit it alienates me at times. The background music is mostly ok I think, although I don't find the OP and ED particularly interesting. Character interaction wasn't too funny, and although I thought the basic script idea held promise, it didn't seem to be able to offer much. The drama though in ep 4 was well delivered, with well thought character interaction (ok somewhat cliche but well given nonetheless), and so I thought that if they can invoke this much emotion from me, it's worth a try. But other than that, the series as a whole (the four episodes I watched) isn't that much of a deal, but it managed to touch me in the end, and it certainly deserves a viewing.

I can tell you why I'm (probably) never going to watch Samurai Champloo. I think the OP song is the worst crap I've heard since brutal and death metal made my ears bleed. I'm not a fan of rap or hip-hop, but I know rhythm and good lyrics when I see them. And Samurai Champloo's OP didn't make even ONE friggin rhyme (not mentioning the horrible Engrish). And that alone butchered whatever rhythm the song might have (although even for rhythm, there are far better rap and hip hop songs). Now, if that song is supposed to prepare me for what I'm about to see or in any way represents the quality and philosophy of the anime, I'll certainly pass. I can't say it sucks though. I've heard a number of good comments, and its ratings are good, so there has to be some sort of redeeming value in there. If I am to offer an opinion without prejudice, I have to watch the whole thing. And since I'm not a total stranger to action/shounen, and don't mind watching one of those occassionaly, I could give a supported opinion without being biased against the particular genre, if I sit and watch the show. I wouldn't be able to judge by watching only one episode though. It's like people watching Fate's first. If I don't watch the rest, or even watch up to ep 14, Fate is an excellent choice, lots of characters, good animation, character interaction is interesting, it can be dramatic and all that. Then you watch the rest and say WTF happened??

I can tell you why Suzumiya is so popular (and I'm not known for wanting to fit in or go with the flow). The VAs do an exemplary job, they get all character feelings conveyed flawlessly and effieciently and even manage the more minor aspects of character interaction with unheard precision. The animation and the level of detail are unparalleled. The humor is subjective. I know people who were laughing on occassions I didn't, and I know people who didn't enjoy the humor of a particular episode as much as me. But everyone of the masses who watches it agrees that every episode is pleasant to watch, even if you didn't get that Macross 7 reference (although those of us who got it where like ... ... The background music is always right to the point. I don't really like the OP and ED songs, but the background music usually delivers much more than I expected.

Now, you can say Kazoku is better than Suzumiya, that's your opinion. And that majority refers to the people who watch both series. Suzumiya has a larger crowd than Ouran (or KamiKazo for that matter) but that wasn't really the point. Although thread posts, episode votes and overall episode ratings are a valuable and interesting statistic and cannot be ignored completely like you suggest. I watch all three series without fail, and although Ouran is funny, I consider Suzumiya to be a more well-made anime.

Now, you may not consider Ouran and Suzumiya on the same level, but I like my posts intact
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Old 2006-06-15, 09:42   Link #254
Grifis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
Who said Hitler was wrong?

Well, if you honestly believe that Kazoku is better than Suzumiya, I don't think we have much to talk on the subject I mean, it's already past the point of no-return to say that Suzumiya isn't good Not to mention that KyoAni's level of attention to detail in Suzumiya alone makes most other series pale in comparison.
Kamisama's plot is promising and I think I probably will like it more and more as I get further. I haven't grown to like the art yet. To me Kamisama is on the ok scale going more than just ok. Suzumiya is still on the ok scale. I surmise the attention it's getting must derive from its out of this world plot, a crazy main character (hanging with her fairly strange minions), and some very amusing narrations. The two things that are different about Suzumiya comparing to other series are the crazy main character and the narration. The only thing that keeps me watching is actually the amusing narration (and I have to say afk did a great job on the translation to convey the same feeling in English). I haven't found one likeable character yet however. And up to this point I still haven't figured out what it's about, probably something crazy like the main character herself. I do appreciate this series for being different though.
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Old 2006-06-15, 09:57   Link #255
lavielove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis
The two things that are different about Suzumiya comparing to other series are the crazy main character and the narration.
Not really, there is another anime in this spring season with the same specification that you have mentioned if I'm not wrong.The only different thing is that the narration in that anime is not funny and read the poems sometimes ^^;;
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Old 2006-06-15, 10:09   Link #256
physics223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
Well, actually animation and level of detail IS Suzumiya's strong point. For me, each episode is better than the previous. See, the point is I can tell you WHY I like or don't like something. [...]
I can similarly do so. First of all, I didn't see Haruhi S. as funny. How acting like a darned manipulative bitch seems to many as fun, I don't really understand. I dislike her playing with Mikuru, and I dislike that corny breast-grabbing routine that's been reused and rehashed for so long already, and I also don't like the pseudo-philosophy.

I can tell why you don't like Samurai Champloo as much as I liked it. It just didn't suit you.

The thing is, I wasn't trying to debunk why you liked or didn't like a thing. I was trying to debunk the fallacy that because something is popular, it follows that it's going to be good. To add to that, just because some series has excellent animation does not necessarily make other series pale in comparison.

Your opinion is yours to keep. However, in defending your statements, you've made crucial errors - your arguments are deemed invalid because they were fallacies.

That's what I was trying to say. To prove that Ouran is better than Suzumiya or otherwise is simply subjective, and can only go around in circles because each have their own merits and flaws.

I'm going to like Kamisama Kazoku all I want to because I think it's better than Haruhi Suzumiya. Just as you can do so with your Haruhi.
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Old 2006-06-15, 10:30   Link #257
eggplant
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Saw episode 5.
Spoiler for Episode 5:
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Yuri de yuri de yuriyuri ne!--Tsunomoto Rein

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Old 2006-06-15, 10:40   Link #258
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223
I can similarly do so. First of all, I didn't see Haruhi S. as funny. How acting like a darned manipulative bitch seems to many as fun, I don't really understand. I dislike her playing with Mikuru, and I dislike that corny breast-grabbing routine that's been reused and rehashed for so long already, and I also don't like the pseudo-philosophy.

I can tell why you don't like Samurai Champloo as much as I liked it. It just didn't suit you.

The thing is, I wasn't trying to debunk why you liked or didn't like a thing. I was trying to debunk the fallacy that because something is popular, it follows that it's going to be good. To add to that, just because some series has excellent animation does not necessarily make other series pale in comparison.

Your opinion is yours to keep. However, in defending your statements, you've made crucial errors - your arguments are deemed invalid because they were fallacies.

That's what I was trying to say. To prove that Ouran is better than Suzumiya or otherwise is simply subjective, and can only go around in circles because each have their own merits and flaws.

I'm going to like Kamisama Kazoku all I want to because I think it's better than Haruhi Suzumiya. Just as you can do so with your Haruhi.
Well, you know, you also fall into holes trying to completely ignore arguments like the animation and the general popularity. Anime IS first and foremost animation (yup, you guessed the origin of the word Anime ) . If the animation isn't good, it's much more difficult to follow the series. The first thing in an anime is SEEN, so saying that animation isn't that important is like saying music in an opera isn't important. Of course every other element is important, but in animated works, the animation plays an essential role. Not to say that other elements don't, but as a song is first and foremost about music, so an anime is about animation. Obviously if you manage to keep up and the other elements are enough to balance the lack in animation quality, that's another story. You can also like a song with an average quality melody if the lyrics are superb, but that doesn't mean music isn't the basic element of a song. You can't have lyrics without music anyway. The obvious element to judge in a visual medium first and foremost is -yes, you guessed it- EYE CANDY. You shouldn't undermine the importance of animation in anime. An anime like Suzumiya with tremendous animation has a huge edge over the rest of the competition. I take it you misunderstood my point though. I was referring to the animation itself rather than the animation quality of MoSH making the other series as a whole pale in comparison. I should've said "the other series animation pales in comparison" but I thought the word use would be redundant and it was more or less implied, but whatever. Still, animation is a serious element to consider and it certainly gives a good edge. And it's pretty obvious Kazoku can't compare to Suzumiya's level of animation.

The popularity being a good statistic about what's good can be debated, but it does give you a clue. Most of us here watch anime because others told us it's good. Like what I'm doing now and watching Tsukihime because I heard it's good and since I like having an opinion about things instead of having misconceptions. Where there's smoke there's fire you know. Likewise, if many people liked KimiNozo or Suzumiya, there has to be some truth to that, so saying popularity doesn't matter is an understatement, and an egocentrical one, too. It is a good indicator about what you can expect of a particular series. Now obviously I'm not going to watch, e.g. horror, no matter how good reviews it got, UNLESS people whose opinion I consider seriously (meaning we like the same shows more or less) recommended it to me, knowing that I usually don't watch horror, cause I don't like it.

Plus, you alter my arguments. I didn't say it's good BECAUSE it's popular. I said the majority thinks it's better. For explanation, read the above.

And for the record, I got pissed at Haruhi for abusing Mikuru, I was protesting in the episode thread I didn't find that funny, other people seem to think so though. But about the bitchy remark, well, if she wasn't bitchy, Kyon wouldn't have those wonderful lines and reactions he has (or any other character for that matter). It's because she's bitchy that the episodes turn out funny.

And I said I haven't watched Samural Champloo. I said I'll never probably watch it, but I might consider it because of how POPULAR it is.

Edit: Eh, minor edits here and there.
Edit: Edit edit...
Edit: Well, what do you know, an "is" was missing
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Last edited by npal; 2006-06-15 at 10:51.
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Old 2006-06-15, 11:02   Link #259
physics223
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I wasn't ignoring them. Where, in my posts, was I undermining the importance of animation in anime? I didn't even say that animation was unimportant, did I? It is YOUR general misconception, however, that goodness or beauty follows with popularity. The thing is, you're now entering into a misconception that I'm undermining the animation in an anime, which I'm not. I know the value of animation in my anime and never did once state explicitly that I've ignored it.

No matter how you think of it, 'other series pale in comparison' does not equate to 'other series' animation pale in comparison.' It is not redudant; they are altogether disparate statements. On one hand, you're talking about other series; on the other hand, you are limiting what you are talking about with the other series' animation - this omission is a mistake on your part.

If the majority thinks it's better, what does the majority connote? That's right, popularity. And what does this statement connote, in turn? That it's good because it's popular. (Change good to better, and majority to popular - equivalent words, nonetheless, and you have your original statement.) I didn't alter your arguments - I simply used synonyms to further a point of mine.
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Old 2006-06-15, 11:36   Link #260
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commercial break! ^^;;
----------------------

The OP singer for Kamisama Kazoku is Mai Mizuhashi from Harajyuku BJ Girls.She's the cutest member of the team ^^ and enjoy her photos from scramble-egg.
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