AnimeSuki Forums

ChibiDusk · 2006-05-26, 15:58

I am looking for a video editor. A basic, not to advanced, program that can create music videos and work with such projects. I don't have a MAC. The things I am looking for are... allowing to import video clips of various aspect ratios without stretching, the ability to create video "blocks" (ex, one video one block, second video other block) - played on the same screen. hard to explain.

The video itself will be 4:3 res, and I will be adding various clips of res. and AR into the project, I want them to go in the 4:3 video without stretching, and be able to move it around and position it as I want.

I also want to "erase" sections of videos. I've seen this done, where the background is eliminated.

Komataguri · 2006-05-26, 16:08

Dosn't VirtuaDub do what you want?

http://www.virtualdub.org/

ChibiDusk · 2006-05-26, 16:29

Guess I wasn't clear.

Video editor, such as... windows movie maker, adobe premiere... etc.

I wasn't sure if Premiere could do the things I wanted it to do.

***NightWish*** · 2006-05-26, 16:34

VirtualDub is a linear video processing application. It probably could be made to edit a video in the way ChibiDusk wants, but it would be a painful process. There are other linear editors that might be easier to use. Still, it sounds like he wants to do a picture in picture type thing (or maybe more complicated). Editing something like that would take many steps or a script (that you may need to keep re-running to get the desired output if you're not skilled in the language) in a linear editing system.

No... What ChibiDusk really wants is a Nonlinear video editor -- the software equivalent of a film splicing deck with bells and whistles. That will give him a way to "scrub" the source video, move various sources around on a time line, apply fades or if he really wants, effects. Generally mix various bits of video content into a new video in many different ways.

Personally I've always used Adobe Premiere for that. However, it isn't cheap and I know there are many alternatives these days (though I don't know any of them by name as I'm not really following the market these days).

Edit: heh, too slow typing. Looks like ChibiDusk already knows what he wants

And yup, Premiere will do all you want I'm sure.... that is if you know how to drive it. Adobe products are not exactly the most intuitive...

Komataguri · 2006-05-26, 16:36

Oh well, I tried.

Something so complicated dosn't soundlike there would be a free option avalible..

Zero1 · 2006-05-26, 18:44

Indeed what NightWish said.

If you want free, there is a Linux NLE http://www.heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3
However, I do appreciate that not everyone is comfortable with Linux. If you are really stuck, use a spare HD or make a partition and give it a try, for video editing if nothing else.

With eliminating backgrounds, you can do it the manual way which would be exporting frames, getting rid of the background in photoshop or something and saving as PSD/PNG and importing them back into the NLE. I believe After Effects has a less painful way of doing that, but I haven't use AE a much at all.

Like you said, it's unlikely that there will be any free NLE's, but cinelerra is one such program.

You might find this useful
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpB...ic.php?t=61207

ChibiDusk · 2006-05-26, 18:47

Thanks for the great description, NightWish, certainly better then anything I could muster up in an explanation! Oh, and yeah, that's exactly what I'd like.

The PIP I tried explaining is a bit more complicated, but I thought if it could do that - it would be able to do what I wanted. I guess it could be done with certain transitions if those ones exist. Basically, as we move on to a new video clip, the screen "rotates" the first into the background, and the second moves ahead. So, in terms, the actual "video window" will act as a placeholder - and the video clips themselves float atop. I also had an idea for another transition, where we zoom out from one video clip to reveal an entire "wall" of clips. From the wall, we could zoom back in to another clip in a different location on the wall.

I can obtain a copy of Adobe Premiere from my School's Film Department, but I'm not sure just how outdated it will be. With the product being quite pricey, I don't imagine they update all that often.

EDIT - Thanks for that, Zero1

Zero1 · 2006-05-26, 19:44

No problem.

I wouldn't worry much about it being outdated, a lot of editors I know prefer the old versions (ie, pre-premiere pro).

In my experience things have just gotten more broken as the Premiere Pro versions roll up

The basic functionality should be the same, heck, maybe there aren't that many changes that would matter to you. Make sure you have plenty of HD space or a fast processor (or both if possible

), the 3 easiest ways of editing would be:

1) Rip your DVD to a lossless AVI, this can be compressed with HuffYUV or Lagarith. If you really have HD space to spare, or a RAID array, you might even use uncompressed YV12 (half the filesize of a RGB frame). Uncompressed 640x480 YV12 is around 10.5MB/s @ 23.976fps (450KB per frame).

2) Rip your DVD and use the AVISynth plugin for Premiere and edit from the .avs file. This can be slow if you have any filtering going on (edit first, then enable filters when you are doing the final export). Even basic IVTC and decimation will slow it down some, something to bear in mind.

3) Bait and switch. You would rip your DVDs to low quality MJPG (possibly at a reduced resolution) and edit using those. When you come to export you would switch the files for a lossless or AVS etc.

One thing to remember is not to edit with XviD files. MPEG-4 ASP in AVI is messy, and doesn't really make for good editing. For starters you have predicted and bi-predicted frames, which require other frames to be decoded. This will slow down your editing and may even break it. Then you have the "B-frame in AVI hacks" where a P frame and B frame are packed together and forced through at the same time. These do not add up to a good idea.

Intra frame XviD wouldn't be so bad I guess, but you might as well just use MJPG.

Adobe also seem to do a package called Premiere elements. I don't know much about it, but it might be worth looking into if you are struggling.

ChibiDusk · 2006-05-26, 21:04

Very informative, and should provide helpful!
However, I have a very small HD and the clips I am using are already converted to .avi from my TV Tuner in order to save space. 18GB HD doesn't give you a lot to work with.

Will anything else be effected other then speed when using .avi's?

TougeSil80 · 2006-05-27, 06:21

If you search around you can get any program for free. If you just need to cut and paste some videos you can try TMPGEnc, it's very basic, and not a lot of features, but it will let you cut or joint videos.

2006-05-26, 15:58	Link #1
ChibiDusk Back From The Dead? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Age: 28	Video Editing I am looking for a video editor. A basic, not to advanced, program that can create music videos and work with such projects. I don't have a MAC. The things I am looking for are... allowing to import video clips of various aspect ratios without stretching, the ability to create video "blocks" (ex, one video one block, second video other block) - played on the same screen. hard to explain. The video itself will be 4:3 res, and I will be adding various clips of res. and AR into the project, I want them to go in the 4:3 video without stretching, and be able to move it around and position it as I want. I also want to "erase" sections of videos. I've seen this done, where the background is eliminated.

2006-05-26, 16:34	Link #4
*NightWish* …Nothing More Administrator Join Date: Mar 2003 Age: 38	VirtualDub is a linear video processing application. It probably could be made to edit a video in the way ChibiDusk wants, but it would be a painful process. There are other linear editors that might be easier to use. Still, it sounds like he wants to do a picture in picture type thing (or maybe more complicated). Editing something like that would take many steps or a script (that you may need to keep re-running to get the desired output if you're not skilled in the language) in a linear editing system. No... What ChibiDusk really wants is a Nonlinear video editor -- the software equivalent of a film splicing deck with bells and whistles. That will give him a way to "scrub" the source video, move various sources around on a time line, apply fades or if he really wants, effects. Generally mix various bits of video content into a new video in many different ways. Personally I've always used Adobe Premiere for that. However, it isn't cheap and I know there are many alternatives these days (though I don't know any of them by name as I'm not really following the market these days). Edit: heh, too slow typing. Looks like ChibiDusk already knows what he wants And yup, Premiere will do all you want I'm sure.... that is if you know how to drive it. Adobe products are not exactly the most intuitive... __________________ 🐾 …to be bold, to be brave; it is the thinking that the heart can still be saved. And the darkness can come quick. The danger's in the anger and the hanging on to it. Last edited by NightWish; 2006-05-26 at 19:54. Reason: 1) Too slow typing 2) typo

2006-05-26, 18:44	Link #6
Zero1 Two bit encoder Fansubber Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chesterfield, UK Age: 33	Indeed what NightWish said. If you want free, there is a Linux NLE http://www.heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3 However, I do appreciate that not everyone is comfortable with Linux. If you are really stuck, use a spare HD or make a partition and give it a try, for video editing if nothing else. With eliminating backgrounds, you can do it the manual way which would be exporting frames, getting rid of the background in photoshop or something and saving as PSD/PNG and importing them back into the NLE. I believe After Effects has a less painful way of doing that, but I haven't use AE a much at all. Like you said, it's unlikely that there will be any free NLE's, but cinelerra is one such program. You might find this useful http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpB...ic.php?t=61207 __________________ Made of win and awesome: 7-zip // x264 (Sharktooth's builds) // XviD (Koepi's builds) // MP4box (celtic_druid's builds) // Firefox // CCCP // CoreAVC

2006-05-26, 19:44	Link #8
Zero1 Two bit encoder Fansubber Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chesterfield, UK Age: 33	No problem. I wouldn't worry much about it being outdated, a lot of editors I know prefer the old versions (ie, pre-premiere pro). In my experience things have just gotten more broken as the Premiere Pro versions roll up The basic functionality should be the same, heck, maybe there aren't that many changes that would matter to you. Make sure you have plenty of HD space or a fast processor (or both if possible ), the 3 easiest ways of editing would be: 1) Rip your DVD to a lossless AVI, this can be compressed with HuffYUV or Lagarith. If you really have HD space to spare, or a RAID array, you might even use uncompressed YV12 (half the filesize of a RGB frame). Uncompressed 640x480 YV12 is around 10.5MB/s @ 23.976fps (450KB per frame). 2) Rip your DVD and use the AVISynth plugin for Premiere and edit from the .avs file. This can be slow if you have any filtering going on (edit first, then enable filters when you are doing the final export). Even basic IVTC and decimation will slow it down some, something to bear in mind. 3) Bait and switch. You would rip your DVDs to low quality MJPG (possibly at a reduced resolution) and edit using those. When you come to export you would switch the files for a lossless or AVS etc. One thing to remember is not to edit with XviD files. MPEG-4 ASP in AVI is messy, and doesn't really make for good editing. For starters you have predicted and bi-predicted frames, which require other frames to be decoded. This will slow down your editing and may even break it. Then you have the "B-frame in AVI hacks" where a P frame and B frame are packed together and forced through at the same time. These do not add up to a good idea. Intra frame XviD wouldn't be so bad I guess, but you might as well just use MJPG. Adobe also seem to do a package called Premiere elements. I don't know much about it, but it might be worth looking into if you are struggling. __________________ Made of win and awesome: 7-zip // x264 (Sharktooth's builds) // XviD (Koepi's builds) // MP4box (celtic_druid's builds) // Firefox // CCCP // CoreAVC

2006-05-26, 16:08	Link #2
Komataguri Reverend K-Rist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: America's Wang. Age: 34	Dosn't VirtuaDub do what you want? http://www.virtualdub.org/

2006-05-26, 16:29	Link #3
ChibiDusk Back From The Dead? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Age: 28	Guess I wasn't clear. Video editor, such as... windows movie maker, adobe premiere... etc. I wasn't sure if Premiere could do the things I wanted it to do.

2006-05-26, 16:36	Link #5
Komataguri Reverend K-Rist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: America's Wang. Age: 34	Oh well, I tried. Something so complicated dosn't soundlike there would be a free option avalible..

2006-05-26, 18:47	Link #7
ChibiDusk Back From The Dead? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Age: 28	Thanks for the great description, NightWish, certainly better then anything I could muster up in an explanation! Oh, and yeah, that's exactly what I'd like. The PIP I tried explaining is a bit more complicated, but I thought if it could do that - it would be able to do what I wanted. I guess it could be done with certain transitions if those ones exist. Basically, as we move on to a new video clip, the screen "rotates" the first into the background, and the second moves ahead. So, in terms, the actual "video window" will act as a placeholder - and the video clips themselves float atop. I also had an idea for another transition, where we zoom out from one video clip to reveal an entire "wall" of clips. From the wall, we could zoom back in to another clip in a different location on the wall. I can obtain a copy of Adobe Premiere from my School's Film Department, but I'm not sure just how outdated it will be. With the product being quite pricey, I don't imagine they update all that often. EDIT - Thanks for that, Zero1

2006-05-26, 21:04	Link #9
ChibiDusk Back From The Dead? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Age: 28	Very informative, and should provide helpful! However, I have a very small HD and the clips I am using are already converted to .avi from my TV Tuner in order to save space. 18GB HD doesn't give you a lot to work with. Will anything else be effected other then speed when using .avi's?

2006-05-27, 06:21	Link #10
TougeSil80 I have enough, I'm gone. Join Date: Dec 2005	If you search around you can get any program for free. If you just need to cut and paste some videos you can try TMPGEnc, it's very basic, and not a lot of features, but it will let you cut or joint videos.