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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 235 66.01%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 79 22.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 7.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 1.97%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.28%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.28%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 1.40%
Voters: 356. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-06-24, 15:01   Link #421
Shirobane
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
Sorry for the triple posts, but again, about the MD thing:



Hmm in analyzing t hose two screens, Haruhi has already stated to the audience that all she and Yuki are are simply stand-ins to the real band. The audience's reaction could have been that these stand-ins only had an hour to practice therefore since the band had practiced for a while, they should be even better. This perception is only valid because of how Haruhi and Yuki came in at the last minute and put on a valid show. Should they have stunk it up, there wouldn't have been the same reaction. I think that's the reason for the huge MD demand without referencing the novels
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Old 2006-06-24, 18:06   Link #422
CrowKenobi
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I think that everyone who says that Haruhi tried to make a power play in regards to the band is barking up the wrong tree.

Why would she trouble herself helping the band when she had a movie to promote?

Why would she want to put up with finding someone to help her on short notice, then practice hard for an hour or so when all she could really be doing was passing out flyers for her movie?

I would think that her movie was more important than the troubles of a high school pop band.

So why did Haruhi do it? Her explanation to Kyon was all that needed to be said.

And having Kyon standing next to her when she talked to the band was not for an alibi; he was her rock: the steady presence that enabled her to calm down the butterflies in her stomach and talk to the band.
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Old 2006-06-24, 19:28   Link #423
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@CrowKenobi: *pushes a button on the mp3 player and applause can be heard*
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Old 2006-06-24, 19:49   Link #424
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Sorry, I didn't read all the posts regarding the topic cause they were quite long and there were many, but based on the reflections Haruhi was making when she and Kyon were outside, I think it's quite evident that she helped out simply because she wanted to, and not for any other reasons.

If she was, then I don't think she would be thinking of how to improve the performance and such.
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Old 2006-06-24, 20:46   Link #425
Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi
I think that everyone who says that Haruhi tried to make a power play in regards to the band is barking up the wrong tree.

Why would she trouble herself helping the band when she had a movie to promote?

Why would she want to put up with finding someone to help her on short notice, then practice hard for an hour or so when all she could really be doing was passing out flyers for her movie?

I would think that her movie was more important than the troubles of a high school pop band.
from 15:36 onwards;

H: "I was passing out movie flyers by the front gate, after I ran out, I headed back to the club room."

Presumably, she had finished all her flyers, and also, her movie was already playing to an audience. Problem is, this episode is so ambiguous that we don't know if she was headed to the club room to call it a day or to get more flyers from the clubroom. Read the novel everyone!!:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar
I think, you definitely want to read the novel chapter for this episode - otherwise ALOT of important details will be missed (Kyon was particularly quiet in the anime version, but NOT in the novel, of course).

Novel chapter
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Old 2006-06-24, 20:57   Link #426
ImClueless
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It occured to me, but when Kyon does his pinched face after see Haruhi getting on stage. Does it remind anyone else of Hachimaki from Planetes? It just feels as if I have seen that expression somewhere else before.
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Old 2006-06-24, 21:04   Link #427
Lost
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^ not really, but now that you mentioned, yes, it does look abit like a Hachimaki expression.
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Old 2006-06-24, 21:43   Link #428
CrowKenobi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
from 15:36 onwards;

H: "I was passing out movie flyers by the front gate, after I ran out, I headed back to the club room."

Presumably, she had finished all her flyers, and also, her movie was already playing to an audience. Problem is, this episode is so ambiguous that we don't know if she was headed to the club room to call it a day or to get more flyers from the clubroom. Read the novel everyone!!:
But this is the anime, not the novel!

...And like you said she was heading back to the clubroom: to get more flyers.

Which audience was her movie playing to? Since she managed to get her movie shown five times that day.......she needed to keep promoting it. Which leads back into my previous post: Why would she trouble herself helping the band when she had a movie to promote?
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Old 2006-06-24, 22:28   Link #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi
But this is the anime, not the novel!

...And like you said she was heading back to the clubroom: to get more flyers.

Which audience was her movie playing to? Since she managed to get her movie shown five times that day.......she needed to keep promoting it. Which leads back into my previous post: Why would she trouble herself helping the band when she had a movie to promote?
Maybe as plug. And two injured band members also probably available to pass out fliers.
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Old 2006-06-24, 23:42   Link #430
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What is this desperate feeling I'm getting from people who are trying to convince themselves that Haruhi is a one dimensional character not capable of compassion or kindness. It's probably part of the whole cult of worship for Haruhi as a "Bonafide God Character" rather than a gifted mortal, that is based on almost no evidence. Face it, as eccentric as she is, deep down she is a confused high school girl who doesn't have a clue what she wants to do with her life and is going through a coming of age. She's putting up a front of outrageous self-confidence when deep down she still has lingering feelings of loneliness and bitterness, you would be too if everybody ignored you and called you weird during your middle school years. Kyon was like the first friend she ever had that didn't prejudge her, that made a huge impact on her that she is still trying to come to terms with, trust takes time to build after you've been shunned and betrayed your whole life.

If you look at her before she met Kyon circa episode 2 she was angry and withdrawn, Kyon managed to establish a bond of trust with her and BANG! now she becomes a hyper genki girl full of energy, but there's still internal conflict within her, she has no idea how to get along with the rest of the SOS Dan because she's never had friends before as she has always been a social outcast, and her intial goal almost seemed to be her trying to get revenge on all the people that shunned her the moment she joined the High School (Pretty much everybody). I don't know she just seems far more down to earth than everyone else here thinks, there are very simple explanations for all the things she is doing, otherwise all her goals would be completely aimless.

Spoiler:


And yes she cares about the rest of the gang but it doesn't show until later on, there pretty close all things considered. Basically if you aren't reading the novels, read them now, they are so much more detailed and interesting than the TV series, without them I probably would hate the anime.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2006-06-25 at 01:16.
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Old 2006-06-24, 23:51   Link #431
flair627
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??? I read the novel link, and it was exactly the same as in the anime, except for a few minor details. Am i missing something
It says "Anime Preview Version" next to the link on the index to baka-tsuki as well <.<

Still great though
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Old 2006-06-24, 23:55   Link #432
Ardee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane
As for dropping her head, for guilt maybe but it's not likely for shame.
I would say that in this context, the only difference is whether her motivation is known only to her, or has been found out by the band (or others). Since she didn't know their reaction yet, it could still be a mix as she considers how this conversation will go depending on how they interpreted her actions.

I've just read the novel chapter so that I wouldn't remain in the dark about its version....

Spoiler for novel thoughts:


Well, this has been a fun conversation. The episode has gone up in my estimation in talking about this because, at least for someone interpreting it the way I suggest, there's that extra layer of depth that is being interwoven with great care into the dialog and facial expressions. I normally dismiss overanalysis of a story like this, but this one clicks a little too well for me to ignore.
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Old 2006-06-25, 00:28   Link #433
nadare
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@Kaioshin_Sama

I think you should put your post in a spoiler. You post contains spoiler of the last chapter of the novel
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Old 2006-06-25, 00:48   Link #434
Vexx
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I contend you don't *need* the novel to draw the same conclusions about Haruhi... just a minor clue about human psychology and what makes a teenage girl tick.

Kaoshin's first two paragraphs are spot on target (though the third should be in spoilers, eh?)
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Old 2006-06-25, 01:17   Link #435
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Coming from a non-novel reader, I too think Haruhi was sincere in wanting to help out the band. I think Ardee got it right that she was most probably spurred on by the kindred spirit she saw in Nakanishi. But the performance itself, the receptions from the audience must have overwhelmed her. Remember that was the last cultural festival for the ENOZ, Haruhi was under immense pressure to do a good show for them and it showed with her contrasting expressions before and after they played 'God knows'. In any case, I believe like Kyon said, the applauses and cheers were unfamilair responses that Haruhi wasn't used to. So with all that at stake, she was feeling disproportionate with all the appreciations she recieved. It got her wondering if she had really put up a good performance, afterall by her own standards, she knew that she could have done better with more time to practice. That's where Kyon as her rock comes in (very well said CrowKenobi).

As a lesson learned from this episode, I think what touched her to really question what's she was doing with her life must be the rewards reaped from the hard work. Rather than the Haruhi of old, anti-social, supernatural weirdo, club-hopping and brushing all of them off as boring, she found out that commiting to one realistic activity with passion and diligence can be extremely fun and fulfilling, especially when friends are together. I think to Haruhi, the SOS-dan must have become more precious to her by that minute.

PS: Hirano Aya's star is shinning even brighter with each episode, the two songs are totally infectious and pretty good for mainstream pop rock and the concert and its atmosphere gives Madhouse's BECK and NANA a run for their money, props to KyoAni for the excellent job.
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Old 2006-06-25, 02:07   Link #436
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Gifted mortal to perhaps to the opened state of Haruhi's mind. And here they are. But not by chance. For I believe,
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-06-25, 02:17   Link #437
Kaioshin Sama
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Ah #42, what were to have do without you, it all make sense now.

Honestly I've never read that book but I don't see how that particular bit applies regardless.
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Old 2006-06-25, 02:36   Link #438
Kenshinyoh
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2 more eps, lets start praying for a season 2 for next year
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Old 2006-06-25, 02:56   Link #439
Anime Online
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenshinyoh
2 more eps, lets start praying for a season 2 for next year

Yeah, if the Kanon remake is 26 episodes (as mentioned) then it'll probably end sometime in early 2007. Ugh >_<
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Old 2006-06-25, 07:40   Link #440
Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi
But this is the anime, not the novel!

...And like you said she was heading back to the clubroom: to get more flyers.

Which audience was her movie playing to? Since she managed to get her movie shown five times that day.......she needed to keep promoting it. Which leads back into my previous post: Why would she trouble herself helping the band when she had a movie to promote?
Well, yes, my previous conjecture was based on the Anime, not the novel, as was the quote there by Haruhi (H).

And no, I didnt say she was heading back to the room to get more flyers, you must realise, we do not know for sure. Yes, she may be going back to get more flyers. Or, she may be totally out of flyers and may not need to promote anymore. Two things to consider: (1) I don't see how see could continue doing another promotion of the movie; with her SOS members essentially split up - Yuki in fortune telling; Koizumi in the play, Mikuru in the maid outfit () (2) Can anyone zoom into the playlist? It appears that the movie runs for 20 minutes. 5 screenings, 100 minutes, 1 hr 40 minutes. Assuming an intermission of 30 mintues, and that the other two (6 and 7) are also 20 minutes, might it be possible to also say that the whole thing/concert took place after the movies had finished screening? I do not see any reference to time. In fact, there was a time jump. And I think it is significant that the time jump occured before we saw the "background happenings." Like you implied, Haruhi wouldn't be the kind to leave her post while the movies were running; what about if they had finished?

Sorry if I sound desperate. The point I want to put across is that this episode leaves us no way to be able to absolutely conclude that she neglected her duty to promote the movie in favour of singing.

Ardee, no offense, but I feel that you're trying to cram what ever you come across so as to fit into your viewpoint.. (then again, don't we all? ^) But anyway, we are all entitled to that right - yeah, I enjoyed the discussions too
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