Lucky Star (Generic Discussion thread)

[Slice of Life]

The impact Lucky Star had will remain a mystery for me. Judging from the avatars floating around in almost every thread it was the show of 2007 so far with no other even coming close.

I didn't hate this show. After all, I watched it till the end with already puts it on top of Gurren-Lagann, say, which I've dropped somewhere around ep 9 or School Days which I wouldn't touch with a pointy stick. But here, I at least think I understand why people can really, really love these show. I don't really understand the ardent fans of Lucky Star. Or does it all boil down to KyoAni or Hirano Aya?

I've seen worse charaterization but the characters were quite soulless Overperfected to fit into the market, I guess. The non-plot was sometimes funny but the multiple references to other anime were annoying. Anime references in anime are humorous when you don't expect them. Not when you are bombarded with them. Especially not when they are always either about Haruhi or about *BLEEP*. If you can't do it for copyright reasons then why are you trying?

I'm giving the show a 5-6 where 1-5 means "time more or less wasted" and 6-10 "time more or less well spent". In other words: I'm left with a quite neutral impression. Azumanga Daioh, for example, is a completely different league.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

The impact Lucky Star had will remain a mystery for me. Judging from the avatars floating around in almost every thread it was the show of 2007 so far with no other even coming close.

I didn't hate this show. After all, I watched it till the end with already puts it on top of Gurren-Lagann, say, which I've dropped somewhere around ep 9 or School Days which I wouldn't touch with a pointy stick. But here, I at least think I understand why people can really, really love these show. I don't really understand the ardent fans of Lucky Star. Or does it all boil down to KyoAni or Hirano Aya?

I've seen worse charaterization but the characters were quite soulless Overperfected to fit into the market, I guess. The non-plot was sometimes funny but the multiple references to other anime were annoying. Anime references in anime are humorous when you don't expect them. Not when you are bombarded with them. Especially not when they are always either about Haruhi or about *BLEEP*. If you can't do it for copyright reasons then why are you trying?

I'm giving the show a 5-6 where 1-5 means "time more or less wasted" and 6-10 "time more or less well spent". In other words: I'm left with a quite neutral impression. Azumanga Daioh, for example, is a completely different league.

Judging by what you said, you probably felt bombarded with the easy ones and missed the hard ones. I caught a small amount of the latter but I'm still ignorant of most of them. The key thing about L*S is that a LOT of Japanese things, especially the most esoteric, you don't expect to be referenced in an anime ended up there.

L*S isn't your cup of tea, so meh. Most of us with L*S avatars here believe it's probably the most unique show for the past year, and it hit another hallmark for the slice-of-life high school genre. The thing about that genre is that it's relatively new to the past decade, and so far it leaves very little opportunity to be overdone, overlapped, or uncreative.

If there's anything to say against people who believe KyoAni can't invent: They did. Nobody has ever seen anything to the likes of SHnY or L*S. They practically invented a genre that supremely panders/parodies to otakus more than any other.

[Vexx]

I'm just a bit sorry that a manga I've come to enjoy got caught up in the "product references out the ass" syndrome. It means when I express my enjoyment of L*S that people will automatically assume I'm some KyoAni drooling fanboy or a Haruhi drooling fanboy when I'm not either. I have *liked* almost all of KyoAni's works but I can certainly find fault with them (as a brief scan of my posts throughout all their series will show). Big fan of L*S... but I'm also pretty unhappy with some aspects of the anime adaptation.

Its kind of like Shinbou .. I think he's done some brilliant things, but I also think he has royally clusterf**ked up some things. Azumanga Daioh is in my top tier of manga and anime choices... but hey, they had some boring episodes as well (and the adaptation putting a teacher's lechery in the first few episodes I've found very offputting to attracting people to the series and anime.... )

Worship just isn't my bag and I get a bit concerned when I see people fall into that non-thinking anime-equivalent of fundamental extremism.

[AVPlaya]

I'm a Japan-ota way before I started watching otaku anime, so this show is a hit for me in so many ways. I got most of the non-ota humor so that makes it special for me. I am never, ever going to find another show in this entire universe which will do a parody cover of I'm Proud while the original singer went missing and was fired by her agency. Never will another comedy show spoof both a Kimura dorama and Haruhi at the same time. But that is really unique to me.

I really don't expect L*S to get such a fanbase in the first place, so I'm totally okay with people not getting the show. I guess that's why I want people to understand it and enjoy it like I did. That being said, I'm more surprised at the huge popularity of L*S even among the casual anime watchers who barely knows Japanese.

I guess it's the wonderful characterization of all the characters, even the minor ones. They seemed REAL even though they're animated. The line between reality and anime/manga world is blurred every time you hear Shiraishi and Akira-sama argue - are they the character or are they the seiyuu? The speaking part of the CDs and the radio show just send a shiver up my spine every time; this show just felt more REAL to me than any other.

Lucky Star did a lot for me. I've made a lot of new friends, got in touch with a lot of part of J-culture I've never knew or have forgotten, and I don't think another show will do that to me again. That's why I have such a profound love for it, but I sure as hell did not expect anyone else to feel the same way. I've loved other anime or entertainment property before, but it's rare to have them done something for me other than brief outlets of relaxation. It has given me a lot, and I have tried to give it back. Now I can truly understand the passion of the otakus.

Before I take myself too seriously, I just want to say that the REAL reason was that I"m a tsundere-holic and Kagamin is one of the best ever. Sore dake. ^^;

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Vexx

It means when I express my enjoyment of L*S that people will automatically assume I'm some KyoAni drooling fanboy or a Haruhi drooling fanboy when I'm not either. I have *liked* almost all of KyoAni's works but I can certainly find fault with them (as a brief scan of my posts throughout all their series will show). Big fan of L*S... but I'm also pretty unhappy with some aspects of the anime adaptation.

That's the saddest part I think that by being associated with Lucky Star people are going to see you as some sort of fanboy. It's getting hard these days to differentiate between the people who truly like Lucky Star as a whole, and the people who are just caught up in the hype surrounding the production staff. I too can find a lot of problems with Lucky Star, but that doesn't mean I don't like it. When the time comes to rate it I'll probably be giving it a 6.5 in the end, which I take to mean above average.

So Vexx, "Clowns To The Left Of Me, Jokers To The Right, Here I Am, Stuck In The Middle With You".

@Slice of Life: I try to deliberately keep my avatars and sigs unnassociated with any currently popular anime. I just follow whatever mood I feel I'm in, and choose an avatar/sig to match it. It's a way I can show that I'm following my inhibitions and not following any sort of trend. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's just how I like to do things personally.

@Claies: The 4Koma style of comedy has been around forever man, neither Yoshimizu nor Kyoto Animation invented it. Here is another example of the style of comedy Lucky Star follows. It requires you to be a Gar/Mecha/Japanese otaku to "Get It" (Lucky Star in turn requires you to be a Haruhi/Moe/Japanese Otaku to "Get It") and it uses in-jokes that you need to pay close attention to (You need to be aware of many mecha shows and Japanese cultural and gaming oddities to understand them), some of which have strips that run into each other. So Lucky Star really isn't any sort of new genre, and even American Comics such as Peanuts (Vexx drew this comparison more times than I can count) have been doing this for years.

[Vexx]

genre: entertaining and quirky personalities getting through life and trying to figure it out, thereby providing commentary on the tragicomic human condition.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Vexx

genre: entertaining and quirky personalities getting through life and trying to figure it out, thereby providing commentary on the tragicomic human condition.

Is that an actual definition?

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Vexx

genre: entertaining and quirky personalities getting through life and trying to figure it out, thereby providing commentary on the tragicomic human condition.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Is that an actual definition?

An actual definition of Azumanga Daioh and Lucky Star's brand of slice of life.

Wiki's definition.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

An actual definition of Azumanga Daioh and Lucky Star's brand of slice of life.

Wiki's definition.

Ah, like Ghost World or Ghost Dog in American films, or maybe even Tarantino.

[Vexx]

O.o Its an actual definition that I coalesced out of general literary-speak.

I was only defining the sub-genre that shows like AzuDa and L*S live in..... some of Shakespeare's plays live in that genre as well. Peanuts, Calvin&Hobbes, Mutts .... a long list of apparently random items that would fit there.

[Kyuusai]

Like AVPlaya said was the case for himself (and a few others, such as Vexx, for whom it is true, but haven't said it here), I come from the perspective of having had a passion/interest in Japanese culture before my interest in Japanese animation. That gave Lucky Star extra significance for me.

I think, before other things, Lucky Star tries to be relatable, and it's from there that it deveops its greatest draw. But the manga's humor being so very Japanese and the anime being as Japanese-culture-centric, not to mention Japanese-pop-culture-centric, one would think that its appeal would be limited outside of Japan. While I knew that the KyoAni Touch would mean it would have a significant following, I was constantly amazed that others found it as entertaining as I did. At other times, I was amazed that I found it as entertaining as I did.

It is often suggested that truly great works should never have ties to temporary concepts, but works such as Dr. Suess's editorial cartoons show us that at worst a truly great work is simply less timeless. I am somewhat concerned that the constant references make this a less timeless (I'm almost certain they do), but it still managed to be a wonderful production.

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

I guess it's the wonderful characterization of all the characters, even the minor ones. They seemed REAL even though they're animated. The line between reality and anime/manga world is blurred every time you hear Shiraishi and Akira-sama argue - are they the character or are they the seiyuu? The speaking part of the CDs and the radio show just send a shiver up my spine every time; this show just felt more REAL to me than any other.

I think this magical effect, as well as the show's general occasionally inexplicable appeal, is achieved by the same thing that makes programs such as the American productions of (to name three vastly different things) Scrubs, Heroes, or even Austin Powers so loved. Like those, Lucky Star shows clearly how much love and enjoyment the creators find in their work, both because of the quality of production and because the production is "transparent" enough for it to shine through. As grueling, depressing and draining as the every part of the creation process can be, they were clearly having FUN doing this. In every scene that jumps to mind when I remember Lucky Star, that element is obvious.

It rubbed off on the fans, too. I enjoy many series, and I enjoy discussing many series, but it's rare that I get almost as excited about "sharing in the fandom" as I do a series, itself. For many reasons (not the least of which being the reference-collection and the aforementioned "transparency"), this series has a hand in changing its following from "fandom" to "community".

[Vexx]

I also come from the perspective of having been interested in japanese culture since I was in junior high (check the age and subtract) and actually LOATHED japanese animation from afar til I started reading Megatokyo in the latter part of the year 2000. Fred kept talking about these anime that did something besides explode, shout, or involve tentacles.... so I went to look and found some pretty decent comedy and drama often heavily dunked in japanese social mores and culture.

As Kyuusai says, even when doing something nastily commercialized --- if the participants are having fun, that comes through more clearly than any "targeted analysis of what the demographic wants". A fair amount of L*S transmits that feeling quite nicely.

[723]

Lucky Star has meant a lot to me. I mean, I am relatively new to anime, and this was one of the first I have seen. I can clearly remember how I downloaded the frst episode because a lot of members of an Internet forum said it was the best 2007 anime.

And, how it dissapointed me... I was looking for taiko no tatsujin, tekken or street fighter that I had seen on the anime preview... And suddenly I was looking how a group of girls were talking about how they eat lots of food I have never heard of. But, I had nothing better to do, and lookes the second episode... and the third, and the fourth. And I loved the series more with each episode.

I have been always interested in the japaneses culture. I have always wanted to know something about the place where anime was created, popular for its great technology and sometimes treated as a place which could be seen as the world in the near future. And, I must add that I have always like references, even those which I do not understand, so that way I can learn more things.

You must have realized that I am defininf Lucky Star. If you add to this, that I like series without a complicated plot, like Keroro Gunsou (unless it has become worse and worse...), you have the result. Moe ( I didn't even know this word before L*S) characters, very well drawn their personalities, lots of references... you know, what the show is about.

And furthermore, thanks to all this foum I could understand better this show. Cultural references, seiyuus, and of course, theories, and various chatter... How to know if the girls were being chased by a certain boy? What do you think of Kagaminya being heart-broken? Do really Kagami and Konata want more than being friends (We love Kagam-e-i)?

It is a shame that L*S has ended... I truly wait for a second season. Or the mangas being licensed, or fansubbed, or whatever. I just want to be someone who can enjoy this a lttle more, know just a bit more, laugh on more time.

I will end this "long" post (maybe it is not very long, but it took me a while to write it xD) with my neverending sentence... What do you think??

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I also come from the perspective of having been interested in japanese culture since I was in junior high (check the age and subtract) and actually LOATHED japanese animation from afar til I started reading Megatokyo in the latter part of the year 2000. Fred kept talking about these anime that did something besides explode, shout, or involve tentacles.... so I went to look and found some pretty decent comedy and drama often heavily dunked in japanese social mores and culture.

As Kyuusai says, even when doing something nastily commercialized --- if the participants are having fun, that comes through more clearly than any "targeted analysis of what the demographic wants". A fair amount of L*S transmits that feeling quite nicely.

I'm still not so sure about that. I always like to think that another persons enjoyment comes before one's own. Of course if all parties are enjoying something then it couldn't be more perfect, but I really didn't like the commercialism at all, and that brought Lucky Star down quite a bit for me.

[AVPlaya]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

I'm still not so sure about that. I always like to think that another persons enjoyment comes before one's own. Of course if all parties are enjoying something then it couldn't be more perfect, but I really didn't like the commercialism at all, and that brought Lucky Star down quite a bit for me.

Japan simply does not have that sort of anti-commercialism. In fact, the first thing every single newly minted celebrity do is a commercial, which is a hallmark of success. People aren't against commercial if you're up front about it. In fact, many people in Japan likes commercials MORE than actual TV shows, and the CM have its own fanbase. For example, the Shiseido Tsubaki campaign has been hugely successful, it's CM being filmed by noted filmmakers, and the girls in them becomes models for young women. I personally watches Japanese CMs more than the show sometimes, since some of them are really well made. I seriously doubt many J-otaku would have similar kind of distaste with regulard to all the KyoAni/Kadokawa references.

Here's some eye candy Tsubaki CMs for fun... some of my favorite CMs ever. All of the women in it are celebrities, and they all feel privileged to be in a Tsubaki CM.

Spoiler for Unhide to view videos of Beautiful Women:

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

The day that all those things happen is the same day we'll see Front Mission 5, Super Robot Wars Alpha 3 and Namco x Capcom released stateside.....which I hope would be soon, but I don't count on it for two reasons, one the cross licensing rights involved in getting all the rights to manufacture the products with all the proper and official content intact (we're almost talking Bandai or nobody here) and two the probability that licensing costs will exceed projected profits.

I would disagree here. They have licensed Haruhi (which arguably is more popular than LS and should cost more in licensing fees) in anime format and plenty of associated figures and such. Just look at Rightstuf and you see figures, wall scrolls, and t-shirts. I expect it to be licensed in anime format with some associated merchandise at the least.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Calawain

I would disagree here. They have licensed Haruhi (which arguably is more popular than LS and should cost more in licensing fees) in anime format and plenty of associated figures and such. Just look at Rightstuf and you see figures, wall scrolls, and t-shirts. I expect it to be licensed in anime format with some associated merchandise at the least.

But Haruhi wasn't clogged with references. Lucky*Star, on the other hand, is.

I have no doubt that L*S would in fact be licensed, but I have even less doubt that it will be inevitably screwed up. First of all, pulling off an English voice acting (and script, nonetheless) for Konata is simply ridiculous. Hirano Aya pulling that off is a miracle in itself, and the anime localization industry so far really lacked such miracles.

The only American release I'll respect for L*S would be entirely subbed, with a Japanese culture guide at least as thick as AVPlaya's attached.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Claies

I have no doubt that L*S would in fact be referenced, but I have even less doubt that it will be inevitably screwed up. First of all, pulling off an English voice acting (and script, nonetheless) for Konata is simply ridiculous. Hirano Aya pulling that off is a miracle in itself, and the anime localization industry so far really lacked such miracles.

The only American release I'll respect for L*S would be entirely subbed, with a Japanese culture guide at least as thick as AVPlaya's attached.

Well, it's not as if this would be the first time someone localized a "reference-clogged" anime; Lucky Star is definitely a unique show, but it's not so unique in that sense. And the nice thing about dubs is that you can always turn them off (back to Japanese audio) if they suck. So I guess I'm not so worried -- whoever Kadokawa works with to release this show will definitely do a good job.

(And well... I think it's perfectly fine to watch this show without a "thick culutre guide". I'm still waiting to get mine to appreciate the fansubs, in any case...)

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by Claies

But Haruhi wasn't clogged with references. Lucky*Star, on the other hand, is.

I have no doubt that L*S would in fact be referenced, but I have even less doubt that it will be inevitably screwed up. First of all, pulling off an English voice acting (and script, nonetheless) for Konata is simply ridiculous. Hirano Aya pulling that off is a miracle in itself, and the anime localization industry so far really lacked such miracles.

The only American release I'll respect for L*S would be entirely subbed, with a Japanese culture guide at least as thick as AVPlaya's attached.

I have the Excel Saga DVDs, and the references it makes are even more obscure then LS and the dub was fine. And the great thing about the Excel Saga DVDs is they have a feature that turns on reference notes that pop up on the screen in little bubbles explaining references and the millions of Excel's puns. Anything is possible if it will sell enough copies ;x Plus the fact that it's hard to dub won't stop them if there is enough money to be made, people will just watch it subbed.

[Vexx]

Paniponi Dash is another example of "blackhole dense" references, they used a similar method of letting the viewer "choose their level of footnote pain".