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View Poll Results: Vivid Strike! - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 0 0%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 1 12.50%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 2 25.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 50.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 12.50%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2016-12-20, 01:53   Link #1
Kairin
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Vivid Strike! - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

Welcome to the discussion thread for Vivid Strike!, Episode 12.

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Old 2016-12-20, 02:56   Link #2
4th Dimension
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I'll move my post about this episode from general thread to here.

12th episode is out. For me again it was a mixed bag. Some parts are fun, , but some other "solutions" are NOT okay.

But some parts did NOT work for me. Like the part that "resolved" Jill's issues. Because it did not. She continues trying with her wrongheaded ides on training.
The part where they also "resolve" the shitty behavior of Rinne was also garbage for me. The apologies ran in the opposite direction to what should have happened.

I liked the short glimpses of Ein and Sig training. I liked Rinne when she is not trying to be a log with a scowl.

Also in my opinion they are overdoing/over straining the whole possible romance aspect between Rinne and Fuka. Compared to how coy they are about Nanoha and Fate, two women who are raising a kid together, this feels more blatant.

Oh and also stop with the stupid trying to turn the inteligent devices into stupid pets/familiars(in the magical girl sense of the word). Huricane is not an animal. Nanoha as a franchise ran away from that trope at the start.

And now for the nitpicky stream of consciousness of what was running through my head as I was watching this:
Spoiler for Spoilers for ep12:


Well to be fair I wrote this while watching it for the second time so some of this was not present in my mind during the initial viewing but only got added later when I re-watched the episode to get times.
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Old 2016-12-20, 06:13   Link #3
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Not sure what to say about the final episode, it felt kinda long for an epilogue actually. It seems like Einhart won in the finals though.
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Old 2016-12-20, 11:59   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
I'll move my post about this episode from general thread to here.

12th episode is out. For me again it was a mixed bag. Some parts are fun, , but some other "solutions" are NOT okay.

But some parts did NOT work for me. Like the part that "resolved" Jill's issues. Because it did not. She continues trying with her wrongheaded ides on training.
The part where they also "resolve" the shitty behavior of Rinne was also garbage for me. The apologies ran in the opposite direction to what should have happened.

I liked the short glimpses of Ein and Sig training. I liked Rinne when she is not trying to be a log with a scowl.

Also in my opinion they are overdoing/over straining the whole possible romance aspect between Rinne and Fuka. Compared to how coy they are about Nanoha and Fate, two women who are raising a kid together, this feels more blatant.

Oh and also stop with the stupid trying to turn the inteligent devices into stupid pets/familiars(in the magical girl sense of the word). Huricane is not an animal. Nanoha as a franchise ran away from that trope at the start.

And now for the nitpicky stream of consciousness of what was running through my head as I was watching this:
Spoiler for Spoilers for ep12:


Well to be fair I wrote this while watching it for the second time so some of this was not present in my mind during the initial viewing but only got added later when I re-watched the episode to get times.
i gonna agree with you, that was one of the worst resolution episodes i see so far, many rushed and bad developed things this episode was really painfull, the way of rinne and jill, become "so nice and easy forgible peoples" was terrible, it's not like i wanted rinne to go back being herself, but was too suddenly and poor write it's really painfull.

the worst was jill, come on, that bitch did "everything wrong, had the wrong belive, she screamed "villian" the whole season to in just one episode become a "saint" and be easy forgivible by rinne and the others, this woman diserves be fired she was really the worst coach i see in fight tornament, allowing rinne goes like that just because she "wanted revenge"???? while this make her very "human" this also show how terrible she is as a coach and don't diserve be working on it.

while overal o enjoyed the fights and some part of the serie, the plot itself and poor developed (almost forget mc) mc was terrible on this serie, how "easy for the sake of moe moe or whatever they want, things get "fixed" in the end make this episode scream terrible, really a good serie with a good potential but almost full wasted with bad/poor writing.
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Old 2016-12-20, 20:16   Link #5
TwoZeroTwo
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Man, I feel so...mild...compared to what's been posted above.

Overall, I enjoyed the series. Yeah, I agree with what's been said, that Fuuka got less development than she should've had for being the 'main character' and that Jill probably didn't have enough of an arc (and that Rinne going "you know what, all the over-the-top stuff I did fueled by my mental issues was always actually fun" is sort of a dumb way to end her plot on) but hey, we're still getting Nanoha-universe anime in the year 2016 and the show had some good moments.

To answer one point brought up above, I guess I sort of expected everything to end nicely so it didn't surprise me when it did. Rinne's character drama was basically the driving conflict of the show - if she comes around, you've solved the conflict, and this is a Nanoha series - she was always going to turn good. Again, yeah, Jill could have done more or changed her ways more, but 'realize she was in the wrong' is again the baseline expected from this type of plot. Nobody is trying to destroy the world in this anime, and nobody needs to just be flat-out defeated.

Actually, the match being streamed to literally anyone and everyone Fuuka's crossed paths with was a bit...weird. That caught me off guard.

So overall, the point I'd dog on the show the most for is that the 'strike arts fighting tournament' setting really doesn't show us much more of the universe than we've already seen. But we discussed that, like, when it first became obvious that's what was going to happen. I've just lived with that and tuned in every week to see what will happen in this story.

Overall, I'm glad I watched.
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Old 2016-12-20, 23:42   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Dimension View Post
Spoiler:
Hura is intended to be a device that looks and acts like a cat (well, an "anime" cat anyway). Why can't it simulate sleeping?

Quote:
Spoiler:
This show has clearly been on Budget/Resource-Conservation Mode since about Ep7. What budget they did have would have been expended on the last fight scene. What did you expect? At least we actually got episodes every week, and they weren't "recap" episodes (that last ditch before they just skip a week).

Quote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2016-12-21, 00:55   Link #7
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As a whole the last episode was pretty solid. I didn't necessarily mind the flashes from the other fighters although...I do find it questionable that they were broadcasting this fight to everyone they casually knew. I mean...wasn't this supposed to be a personal issue? But anyways, I think it is fine. Most of those girls had time to process what happened and frankly didn't have the same problems Rinne had so they could actually get through that. Honestly I think it's more believable that at the very least they just don't care to talk to Rinne in the future. But...I suppose there are people who could take that kind of poor sportsmanship unbelievably well.

In some ways it is nice to just have Rinne acting calm and interacting with Fuka as they would have in the past. Also gives a kind of interesting spin that normally Rinne would be the more emotionally calm one of the two. Might explain Fuka being really bad at giving motivational speeches . I did enjoy them giving Fuka a moment of weakness for once. Get into her head a bit and show how much this did all affect her. Just wish we'd gotten anything like that before the last couple episodes and besides the first episode.

At least it is good to have Rinne speaking with her parents about what has been going on. A lot of time has been spent on her this season and she has basically been the main character. So at least her problems have been tackled. Considering it was the main issue for the show, having it be dealt with is fine by me. Plus, it is just nice to have a relatively positive and friendly Rinne.

And with Jill...she was just a bad coach. It's not unreasonable that she initially misread Rinne's mindset and emotional situation. But she admitted herself that she did clue in along the way how serious the problem is. And she intentionally decided to ignore it for her own gain. Because (oh no) Rinne might decide to take a break from fighting to deal with her problems or find something else to do. How terrible....for Jill.

I'm not even sure why Jill felt a need to live her life through Rinne. There are other girls at that gym. It's not like everything ends if Rinne doesn't fight. And it was pretty darn clear that Jill was the main cause of the whole puking incidents . Even the other fighters in that gym seem to find that a familiar situation. That's just a thing Jill does. Train people into the dirt until they puke.

It has been an interesting season in the end. There are things I liked about Vivid Strike and things I didn't. It started off really well with Fuka and some potential story directions. Rinne's flashbacks were really good and had some impact. And they did spend enough time with Rinne to make her situation have enough weight. Credit as well to Vivio's fight which was easily the best fight in Vivid Strike and probably some of the more enjoyable episodes.

Is a shame that Fuka was underdeveloped and basically ignored for most of the series. And I do kind of think they should have just let Jill apologize for 2 minutes and quietly have Rinne accept them rather than give her any slack. Tournament arc was kind of a waste, they barely had time to show any fights and yet needed to spend time to set it up.

If nothing else, this show didn't bore me. I just hope going forward they can have a bit more stability in the plot. At times it felt like different people were writing different stories and not communicating to each other. Still a good show, but not as good as it could have been.
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Old 2016-12-21, 04:53   Link #8
4th Dimension
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A preface of sorts.
First off, if I do step back and look at the characters and their actions objectively now that we know the whole story their actions become more positive, but the trouble is this is a story and as a story failled me at making me feel the emotions it obviosly wanted that could have made thing better. First impressions matter and this show to me fed me a REALLY bad impression of Rinne that could well be just me projecting. Also I readily admit that my negative view of the show could largely be because
A) my "suspension of disbelief" broke early when Rinne appeared to be just another pointlessly OP shonen antagonist and they were doing nasty things to the lore (IMO).
B) I watched the show in episodic format one episode per week, this left me with a lot of time to grumble and nitpick about the smallest of issues. I feel it's similar to dichotomy of my opinion on StrikerS and other people's opinion, where I grasp and even agree with their misgivings, and while for them it's the worst thing for me it failled at several things but still it's endearing at what it attempted and I'll fight anyone for it. The difference stems from the fact that I personally did not spend years expecting it and then spend weeks awaiting any dribble of info on episodes as they slowly became available all the while dissecting the tiniest mistake with the community. I watched it in practically one sitting after watching As and as such the good outweighed the bad
C) To make the matters worse the issues I had with the show built and built in me, but with nowhere to properly discharge it since I was part of no community interested in Nanoha and Strike. That is until episode 7 I think (when Miura got wrecked I think), when I finally got fed up and made an irrate post on vividtrans, which was then picked up by another poster who had even lower opinion. having somebody to bounce ideas about the show meant, we basically hijacked the comments on that post and our distaste fed on each other. And if you think I'm bad, you should see my buddy from there.

Basically I think a good portion of things I feel about the show, could be just me and my expectations vs what I subjectively observed when compared to how IMO thought how Nonoha world worked.
So there is a lot of subjectivity in my postings that I will try to contain. But than again, it's a story and even wrong subjective opinion are valid because it's all about appealing to subjective viewers.

Now that that ting is out of the way....


Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoZeroTwo View Post
Man, I feel so...mild...compared to what's been posted above.
As I said that kind of reaction is not surprising to me. I have a suspicion things could have been similar to me had I watched this in a different format. Also I'm likely to mellow out after a time too. You should have seen me in my full indignation after I watched Vivid for the first time (made a mistake and went for Anime version first). But now I'm able to point both the good and the bad without going into a rage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoZeroTwo View Post
To answer one point brought up above, I guess I sort of expected everything to end nicely so it didn't surprise me when it did. Rinne's character drama was basically the driving conflict of the show - if she comes around, you've solved the conflict, and this is a Nanoha series - she was always going to turn good. Again, yeah, Jill could have done more or changed her ways more, but 'realize she was in the wrong' is again the baseline expected from this type of plot. Nobody is trying to destroy the world in this anime, and nobody needs to just be flat-out defeated.
Oh I don't mind Rinne's drama driving the show and she getting good at the end. It's che process and the presentation I'm having issues.
Also once the episode with bullies aired I became convinced that Strike was Force in Vivid clothes. And as such I did not exactly know where it was going. Well I thought I did. I thought that since (again this is what I thought back then) that Rinne was another pointlessly OP with no drawbacks shonen antagonist that is going to spend the season beating up the Nakajimas and gloating about it only to be defeated, befriended and escape karma right at the end. But thankfully the show did not go that way ad Miura's defeat was basically a case of Worf Effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoZeroTwo View Post
Overall, I'm glad I watched.
While I am not as glad I did not enjoy it as much, it sure was fun discussing and venting about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Hura is intended to be a device that looks and acts like a cat (well, an "anime" cat anyway). Why can't it simulate sleeping?
Well yes it could be simulating things and acting anime cutesy could be one of the settings although Fuka does not really strike me as somebody that would go for such a skin. But the whole thing with making them into mute pets still leaves an ugly taste in my mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
OK, while those scenes will never reach brilliance, it seems the basic problem here is a mismatch between the author's estimate of how the viewer will perceive the gravity of the shown events and what actually transpired (for you). I've had similar problems with other shows which seriously dented my enjoyment of same.
I agree that it's highly likely that this might be the case. Then again even if the show was gold I would still disslike it somewhat because it would be a continuation of Vivid's type of plot about fistfighting which was never my favorite and more importantly apart from Vivio's fight (which was not stellar) the rest of them were bland. This is especially true when compared to extra flashy Vivid fight scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
snip
--Rinne Section--
Oh i would agree that Rinne is not herself to blame for much except that she did not exactly show sportsmanlike behavior in victory, and even that could probably be laid at Jill's feet as another something that she did not teach her deliberately or no. My distaste for her is based on wrong first impressions, as explained before, that I'm really trying hard to shake. Also a lot of it was due to the fact that they were not using protection systems and Rinne seemed like the only combatant that was going around inflicting lasting physical damage. Which tied back into the whole Force i guise of Vivid thing going on in my head.
My bigger problem with the entire scene is the DIRECTION of the resolution. It's the fact that her opponents seemed to be apologizing to her. I would have been perfectly fine if she recognized that her behavior was shitty in the past and resolved not to in the future. Or even if they wanted to "resolve" it a short curt apology from Rinne to the competitors about her unsportsmanlike behavior after the match while explicitly saying she will not apologize for anything that happened during them would be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
snip Jill
Well first off this is not supposed to be Japan but Midchilda (although it got progressively Japanified) and this is not a case of simple physical training but physical magical training, and the show had already pretty stringently said AND showed what happens when you do forcing of this level for long periods of time. Nanoha experienced it first hand and almost lost her legs as a consequence. So forcing was a big no no in the past.
Now I admit it could be that she was "only" forcing her physically, but I find it unbelievable that ONLY physical anything could be a counter to magical attacks which are on a whole another level. So I'm taking her training to be a combination of magical and physical activity aimed at boosting her body through physical and magical means. In which case again such straining for extended periods of time is a BIG no no.

I personally never argued it was Jill's job to solve Rinne's issues. On the other hand what WAS her duty was to notify her actual legal guardians, her parents, of her progress including her possible mental issues. This is key because while Jill was able to spot that she is hiding something, probably since she spent more time with her than her parents (again one of the reasons teachers get fousted with basically the duties of parents while children are in their care), while her parents were oblivious since she was intentionally putting on a front around them.
Maybe it still would not have resolved anything since her parents would not believe her, but she has to ALWAYS have the greater interest of her charge in her mind, EVEN if it means preventing her career in martial arts. She is a kid, she still has roads open to her if the martial arts one closes. Hell she might still become an athlete only in a sport that actually bring her joy and she does not consider a torture she ahs to endure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
As a whole the last episode was pretty solid. I didn't necessarily mind the flashes from the other fighters although...I do find it questionable that they were broadcasting this fight to everyone they casually knew. I mean...wasn't this supposed to be a personal issue? But anyways, I think it is fine. Most of those girls had time to process what happened and frankly didn't have the same problems Rinne had so they could actually get through that. Honestly I think it's more believable that at the very least they just don't care to talk to Rinne in the future. But...I suppose there are people who could take that kind of poor sportsmanship unbelievably well.
It would have been more fine if they had limited it to Rinne's parents and their frineds from orphanage. But then they included Rinne's classmates who have shown only intrigue (IMO) or fear (other people O) towards her and Fuka's colegues from one of her random jobs and finally the whole competitor issue.
As I said I personally would have been fine with simply Rinne outright stating that her behavior out of ring and after match was bad which she will not do again. There problem solved. Maybe do a scene later with some narration that she told her parents what happened to her. But showing them Fuka and Rinne basically meat tenderizing each other was a bit much also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
In some ways it is nice to just have Rinne acting calm and interacting with Fuka as they would have in the past. Also gives a kind of interesting spin that normally Rinne would be the more emotionally calm one of the two. Might explain Fuka being really bad at giving motivational speeches . I did enjoy them giving Fuka a moment of weakness for once. Get into her head a bit and show how much this did all affect her. Just wish we'd gotten anything like that before the last couple episodes and besides the first episode.
Their personalities are hardly surprising since they were aiming for Nano/Fate 2.0. That is why Rinne is a ball of emotions with a calm and reasonable exterior with loads of issues similar to Fate. Fuka is a bit less similar to Nanoha but similar to her she wears her emotions on her cuffs for all to see with a fair bit of Harry thrown in. Hell the first time I saw the trailer I thought it was going to be some sort of weird origin story for Hary and Victoria, although why they would pair those I had no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
At least it is good to have Rinne speaking with her parents about what has been going on. A lot of time has been spent on her this season and she has basically been the main character. So at least her problems have been tackled. Considering it was the main issue for the show, having it be dealt with is fine by me. Plus, it is just nice to have a relatively positive and friendly Rinne.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I'm not even sure why Jill felt a need to live her life through Rinne. There are other girls at that gym. It's not like everything ends if Rinne doesn't fight. And it was pretty darn clear that Jill was the main cause of the whole puking incidents . Even the other fighters in that gym seem to find that a familiar situation. That's just a thing Jill does. Train people into the dirt until they puke.
She could not have done it with others. Jill is broken inside because she probably blames her not achieving everything she wanted (which might be a tad subjective given her wall of medals) on her raw power level and not on her tactics and skills, things that can be trained.
As such she had to have a trainee with ridiculous amount of power so she could train her to be undefetable. This would validate that it's power and not her own training and will inadequacies that caused to under perform. If she trained someone with less power or even somebody equal to her, and that person then was able to perform beyond what Jill was able to do it would have proven her wrong, and this was allways about proving herself right and athletes fates never entered into it. At least in her subconsciousness. She might not have been aware what she was doing was assholeish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
It has been an interesting season in the end. There are things I liked about Vivid Strike and things I didn't. It started off really well with Fuka and some potential story directions. Rinne's flashbacks were really good and had some impact. And they did spend enough time with Rinne to make her situation have enough weight. Credit as well to Vivio's fight which was easily the best fight in Vivid Strike and probably some of the more enjoyable episodes.

Is a shame that Fuka was underdeveloped and basically ignored for most of the series.
Yes Rinne is an interesting character. Shame they did not show the fact that she got where she was through strenious training before I started taking her for something she was not.

The start was interesting. They had the entire thing with the mob getting some kind of weapon or something, that made me feel it might be the cause of the macguffin that starts the plot. And the plot could have been some sort of rip roaring revenge by Fuka against a crime syndicate/mob or something. Probably because she finds out they took Rinne or something. You can even add Nakajimas in as a cameo where Fuka cleans there during the day in excchange for room, board and some training.
Then PLOT TWIST 50-70% through the season we find out the main antagonist is Rinne and that she is not dead but has been brainwashed or something. So now she has to bring her friend back before TSAB (probably in guise of Teana who has couple of short cameos with her being the main investigator and in epilogue where they resolve the issue) falls down on them all.

FUCK I need to stop making better ideas for this thing because frankly all they do is rile me up since I only see positives and not things that make them not possible to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
And I do kind of think they should have just let Jill apologize for 2 minutes and quietly have Rinne accept them rather than give her any slack.
I agree. Even Rinne going back to Jill could be made to work IF Jill acknowledges that her methods were wrong and she will tone things down a bit, maybe ask Nove for some pointers (during their call).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
If nothing else, this show didn't bore me. I just hope going forward they can have a bit more stability in the plot. At times it felt like different people were writing different stories and not communicating to each other. Still a good show, but not as good as it could have been.
Why I keep calling it Force in guise of Vivid that conveniently forgot some parts of the lore.
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Old 2016-12-26, 14:31   Link #9
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for curiosity that was the last episode??? cuz looked like we gonna get another episode on the last weekend but we don't get one, then the 12 was the last???, we ended without see the final battle between fuuka and the other girl(srry forget her name now).
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Old 2016-12-26, 14:33   Link #10
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Yeah that is the last episode. We do get to see a picture during credits of Fuka and Einhart during the cup award ceremony and Fuka seems to be more battered of the two.

I guess it's meant to be intentional, it shows that Fuka hes stepped up her game and is a credible competitor at highest level, being able to step up to Einhart. The resolution of the match almost does not matter at that point. Since it's not the champion belt that is at stake but only the cup title.
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Old 2016-12-26, 15:21   Link #11
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Yeah that is the last episode. We do get to see a picture during credits of Fuka and Einhart during the cup award ceremony and Fuka seems to be more battered of the two.

I guess it's meant to be intentional, it shows that Fuka hes stepped up her game and is a credible competitor at highest level, being able to step up to Einhart. The resolution of the match almost does not matter at that point. Since it's not the champion belt that is at stake but only the cup title.
well thanks to the answer, then for me this was really a terrible "last episode", really too rushed and bad closure, specially for jill, still too "plot conventional" the way she was 'redemeed" for all the crap she did here, if not was the last episode could be a little better but for a "last episode was really terrible, not the battle but the plot finish, really a very bad end for what looked like a good serie if we don't count how terrible fuukas portrait as a "main heroine, basically this serie look more like rinne was the "main heroine and fuuka just a plot device to redeem her.
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Old 2016-12-26, 19:14   Link #12
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for curiosity that was the last episode??? cuz looked like we gonna get another episode on the last weekend but we don't get one, then the 12 was the last???, we ended without see the final battle between fuuka and the other girl(srry forget her name now).
It's Einhart.
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Old 2016-12-31, 02:18   Link #13
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Watched the final episode and it's satisfying for me. Most of the emotional issues have been solved. I don't understand on why Rinne thinks she needs to apologize to Miura and Vivio.. she beat them up in official match.. so even if they got sent to the hospital, there's nothing to apologize for.

Giving the last episode a high 8/10. Would have been a 9/10 if they show the Einhart vs Fuuka fight.
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Old 2016-12-31, 23:08   Link #14
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Well, that was the end of this spin-off. Too bad that Seven Arcs didn't show what happened between Fuuka and Einhart.
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