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Old 2016-09-21, 03:12   Link #1
Harry Dresden
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Paladins (Hero-based Team-FPS from Hi-Rez)

Anybody been playing this? Dabbled in and out of it a bit during alpha and beta phases and came back to it now that the Open Beta has released. So far quite a lot of fun even if I do miss the more open deck-building aspects the alpha had. BTW currently winning 5 versus player matches as Barik unlocks TF2 Engineer skin for him.

What is Paladins?
At it's core it is pretty much A Team Fortress style hero-based shooter that Hi-Rez initially started as a revamp of Global Agenda's pvp mode. Alas after GA pretty much died, it was spun off into separate full-fledged project. The currently available gameplay is basically objective based mode called Payload, where you have to hold a capture point long enough to spawn a siege device and then push it to the enemy base within time limit to score points. A team who gathers 4 points first wins. You are awarded one point for successfully capturing a capture point and one point for successfully getting the siege cart to the enemy base.

Alpha and Closed Beta gameplay also had few other modes like Survival(a kind of last-man-standing deathmatch with advancing poisonous fog slowly limiting play area) and a more complex version of Payload(with randomized capture point locations and multiple lanes), but they have been removed for reworking, so I would expect something like that to be added in the future too. The game currently has 6 maps with more to come over the course of the open beta.

The hero customization involves setting up five passive cards as a loadout that alter the way your abilities work. The cards are acquire as you level up or can be bought via non-premium currency you acquire while playing. Alongside that, y ou have traditional MOBA-style item buying in-match that alters your stats and capabilities.

Heroes
Right now the game has 16 heroes available.They are separated into four definitions.
Front-Liners:
  • Makoa - a sort of hybrid between a tank and a damage dealer. Has a decent hp pool and a 4-shot magazine cannon weapon. The active abilities involve creating a bubble shield that blocks enemy attacks, a fash tackle that knocks back enemies, a grappling hook that pulls them to you and stuns them. His ultimate essentially turns you into a melee character and doubles your hp for the duration.
  • Barik - A typical dwarf cahracter wielding a 6-shot magazine blunderbuss. Barik is another tanker whose active skills include placing a turrets(up to two at once), putting up an energy barricade or dashing into desired direction. His ultimate is about putting a domed shield with a flamethrower in the middle.
  • Fernando - a more typical tank with low cooldown shield he can use to block enemy damage and a primary flamethrower damage over time weapon. His active skills include extending a shield in front of himself(and anybody who is behind him), shooting a fireball that does aoe damage and reduces heal effects and a dash that damages anything in its way. His ultimate allows him and anybody near him to stay immortal for 4 seconds.
  • Ruckus - A sturdy front-line gnome in a mech suit wielding a minigun. His actives involve creating a personal shield that slows enemies nearby, a pulse aura that reduces damage to the allies near him and a jetpack. His ultimate decreases his speed, and for a short duration gives him 4 more guns - two miniguns and two roket launchers.
Damage:
  • Cassie - a typical sniper archer. Her main weapon is a one-shot bow and her actives involve shooting an arrow that knocks back enemies(and gives you damage bonus if you hit them again while they are in the air), an explosive that does aoe damage and reduces healing, A dodge roll that increases your damage for next shot and an ultimate that marks and makes visible all enemies in vicinity(including stealthed characters).
  • Kinessa - a typical long-range sniper character wielding a sniper rifle. Her actives are sniper zoom in ADS, a mine that deals damage over time and slows down the enemy and a deployable personal teleporter. Her ulti increases her damage by 50% and removes reloading from her sniper rifle for a short period of time.
  • Drogoz - a flying dragon with a rocket launcher. His actives involve a fire spit that does aoe damage over time, a rocket launcher salvo that shoots the entire magazine in quick succession, a jetpack thrust that allows him to fly in the air and shoot at people from the sky. His ultimate, dragon punch, is an increased speed controllable dash that does 100% of your health value as damage to any single enemy you hit with it.
  • Bomb King - a bomb equiped robot...thing. His main weapon is throwing sticky bombs that explode in a minute and do aoe damage. His acive skills involve manually detonating all placed sticky bombs, throwing an aoe bomb that explodes in 3 seconds stunning every enemy in the area and an unstable sticky bomb that sticks to any surface and causes knockback when walked on. His ultimate, King Bomb, turns you into a huge bomb that does 3000 damage, knocks back all enemies in it's range and does three times more damage to shields.
  • Viktor - a character that should be familiar to anybody who played an FPS game. His basic weapon is a traditional assault rifle. His actives involve aim downsights, a frag grenade, and a sprint. His ultimate involves calling an airstrike on marked enemy targets.
Support:
  • Pip - A racoon that is a hybrid between a healer and something akin to grenadeer. His main weapon is a toxic potion launcher that lobs them like grenades. His actives are explosive flask that deals damage over time, an aoe healing bomb that heals allies and a skill that allows him to jump higher and removes all debuffs. His ultimate, Evil Mojo, has him throwing a flask turning any enemy in that area into helpless low-hp chicken.
  • Grohk - A shaman wielding a ligthning staff. His actives invovle a chain-lightning kind of attack, A healing totem and an intangible form that lasts for two secnds. His ultimate, Tempest, causes him to exclude an aura of thunderstoms around himself, which damages up to 2 nearby enemies and heals up to 2 nearby allies.
  • Grover - A giant walking tree with a throwing axe. His actives involve a crippling throw that cripples enemies, an aoe heal that heals small amounts passively and 1000 hp when used as active and a vine that works as grappling hook allowing you to pull yourself towards any surface it latches onto. His ultimate, Whirlwind, is an aoe heal that heals 2500 hp per second for five seconds.
Flanker:
  • Skye - a stealthy assasin with throwing daggers as a weapon. Her actives include rapid firing her weapon with poisonous ammo, creating a smoke screen stealthing any ally in it's location and a stealth mode. Her acive , Toxic Time Bomb, explodes dealing 5000 damage over the course of 5 seconds. The only way to avoid it is to get into cover.
  • Evie - a wizard wielding an ice staff. Her actives include encasing herself in ice to become immune to damage for 3 seconds, blink that allows her to teleport a short distance and soar that allows her to ride her staff like broom and fly. Her ultimate, Ice Storm, lets her fire a massive icestorm that does damage over time, slows and cripples the enemies.
  • Buck - A shotgun wielding tankier short-ranged version of Viktor. His actives involve a net shot that slows a target and deals damage over time, a self heal and a leap that does damage upon landing. His ultimate, Buck Wild, resets all your cooldowns, refills your ammo and gives your weapons double damage for 6 seconds.
  • Androxus - a revolver wielding assassin. His actives involve unloading entirety of revolver magazine in short succession, absorbing all shots fired at him for short duration and returning them back to a target as damage and a directional dash. His ultimate, Accursed Arm, has him floating and gives you 4 high damage blasts.

Some Videos from youtube:
Open Beta trailer
Evie Gameplay from another youtuber
Androxus gameplay from same youtuber
Pip gameplay from same youtuber

Before the toxic and nonsensical "omg overwatch rip off" coments(that ignore the fact that there's nothing unique about overwatch), here's a link where Hi-Rez CEO explains the history of Paladins development and backs up his arguments with pre-alpha gameplay videos. Either way Overwatch has nothing original in it - it is what blizzard always does - take parts and features of games available in the market and put them together in their own product. There's nothing wrong with that but its important to understand that none of mechanics are unique to Overwatch or originated in it, so any similarities between similar genre games are because they are similar genre games. This pointless argument happened with WOW, this argument is happening with OW. Let's nip this vicious circle in the bud and not start that comparison nonsense, shall we?

So anyway, anybody else been playing this? Been playing this pretty much nonstop since since start of open beta and frankly the only real complaints I have is that Skye's ulti is completely broken(but will most likely be nerfed) and that a lot of new players seem to be...not very good at objective play? This game REALLY needs a comprehensive tutorial. That and game tends to disconnect randomly for me at peak hours.

Also just a warning - till you reach Level 5 all your matches are against AI bots.
Wheeew, this took loong to write up.
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Old 2016-09-21, 07:14   Link #2
Kyero Fox
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Old 2016-09-21, 13:47   Link #3
Jinjer
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tried it, i like what they're going for but i guess there are still a lot of things that needs to be worked on before we could make a final say on this thing

(also they can put all the "we're actually different from that other game" stuff on it but that won't change the fact that you'll hate it when your team mates tool around on their own throughout the match and never do anything about the objective... just like in that other game)
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Old 2016-09-22, 08:56   Link #4
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
J2gBkqP4V9Y
And the very first reply is (what I assume) bait with "omg overwatch rip off" video(specifically the one that was done by somebody who did absolutely zero research about the game or overall genre), despite specifically asking not to bring that complete nonsensical "discussion" into here, because it goes nowhere and most of people know better than to go into ridiculous arguments over "omg X ripped off Y because they are in same genre"

Niiice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjer View Post
tried it, i like what they're going for but i guess there are still a lot of things that needs to be worked on before we could make a final say on this thing

(also they can put all the "we're actually different from that other game" stuff on it but that won't change the fact that you'll hate it when your team mates tool around on their own throughout the match and never do anything about the objective... just like in that other game)

That's every objective based game tho. Take any MOBA, be it Smite, Hon, LOL, DOta, etc or any team based FPS, be it this, Dirty Bomb, even Team Fortress and you WILL have people like that. Its a problem with overall gaming community and not just a specific game. The fact that the beta just started would obviously attract people like that, but that is bound to fix itself over time as they dwindle down. Its all dependent on how lucky a side gets in matchmaking. Sometimes you might find fighting against bots actually harder than against people even. Till then I pretty much mitigate that by playing in party with people I actually know.

There's also the fact that until you reach Account Rank 5 the game stealthily places you only to fight against AI bots. Who, as I said, might be even more efficient than players sometimes.

I personally find Paladins to be more Solo friendly overall though than the other examples. As long as you competently play your role, you are contributing well to your side, due to lower time to kill than in something like overwatch where heals are abound. An endurance-based tug of war is impossible in Overwatch or Dirty Bomb and unless you and your team work perfectly together the damage that did not kill will get mitigated away by enemy healers. While in Paladins, since everything is cooldown based, you can do the whole attrition warfare thing by slowly but constantly pushing at the enemy side

The game DOES need an actual tutorial tho. While anybody who played any MOBA will be familiar with class roles(since you have traditional moba elements like tank, assassin, support, ADC, etc), it can be a bit confusing for newbies. In a perfect world every hero would have personalized tutorial helping players learn how to play it but alas a general tutorial would suffice too.

Last edited by Harry Dresden; 2016-09-22 at 09:12.
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Old 2016-09-22, 13:44   Link #5
Kyero Fox
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I just thought the video was funny. I wasn't calling it a rip off. but it is very much cloney.
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Old 2016-09-22, 18:39   Link #6
Asuras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I just thought the video was funny. I wasn't calling it a rip off. but it is very much cloney.
The character designs for many of them are too similar not to be knockoffs. It's astounding.
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Old 2016-09-22, 20:51   Link #7
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I don't need to do any research in order to FEEL that I'm playing a modded/reskinned Overwatch when I play Paladins.

The pre-alpha gameplay videos prove nothing by the way, since they are very different from what the game looks like now. It's possible that Paladins started off different to OW but then over time they change the game to become more and more similar to OW. One example is the knight's shield. In the pre-alpha video, his shield is small and it protects only himself. Now it's a big, rectangle and blue, nearly identical to Reinhardt's. When did they change it? Why did they change it?

Now for the gameplay itself, I found Paladins very poorly designed:

1/ You can't choose the same champion someone else in your team already chose. It would be fine if this were a MOBA with 100+ champions. But Paladins has only 16 now, so your choice is very limited (especially if you play for free, you start with only 8).

2/ You can't change your champion during matches like in OW. While it's not a problem itself, the point is, unlike OW, the objective changes depending on the situation. You can capture the point, defend, or push the payload within the same match. The result is the imbalance among the champions. General purpose tanky dps champions are OP, while situational specialized champions are near useless.

3/ The loots from chests are pure garbage.
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Old 2016-09-23, 04:10   Link #8
Harry Dresden
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I am beginning to think that these tries to derail the thread into the pointless offtopic discussion are maliciously intentional now.

People CAN'T seriously believe OW invented team shooters, right? Then again we are living in the world where MMOs still get labeled "WOW clones"...Oh the humanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
The character designs for many of them are too similar not to be knockoffs. It's astounding.
Here we go again.
There's absolutely NOTHING original about OW designs or character concepts. Even Blizzard themselves were not stupid enough to claim that.

Since hero shooters are all about mix and matching parts of MOBA with parts of a shooter gameplay, the hero aspect would obviously be taken from MOBAs. In this case most of paladins heroes are clearly inspired by their Smite counterparts(ex: Cassie is clearly based on Artemis, Skye on Loki, Fernando on Ares, etc) while combined with mechanics that existed in global agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
I don't need to do any research in order to FEEL that I'm playing a modded/reskinned Overwatch when I play Paladins.
Is Dirty Bomb also reskinned OW?
Is COD reskinned Battlefield?
Is Hearthstone reskinned Magic the Gathering?
Is Smite reskinned DOTA?
Is OW reskinned Team Fortress 2?

There's nothing original about OW's mechanics. Its literally mix and match of Global Agenda and Team Fortress 2. That's what Blizzard always does with every single game of theirs - they mix and match parts of existing stuff. They are Apple of video gaming.

There's nothing wrong with that too, as the concept of "ripping off" is laughable in face of genre-specific gameplay concepts and mechanics.

Quote:
The pre-alpha gameplay videos prove nothing by the way, since they are very different from what the game looks like now.
The mechanics are same. Identical. Graphics change often for any game. Alpha always has placeholder graphics.
Quote:
It's possible that Paladins started off different to OW but then over time they change the game to become more and more similar to OW.
There's nothing original in Overwatch nor anything unique to overwatch. The gameplay mechanics, the hero concepts, etc, existed for years.

Quote:
One example is the knight's shield. In the pre-alpha video, his shield is small and it protects only himself. Now it's a big, rectangle and blue, nearly identical to Reinhardt's. When did they change it? Why did they change it?
Or maaaybe, since the alpha is placeholder and was intended as Global Agenda's PVP remake, they just decided to replace his shield with the energy shield from global agenda?
A shield mechanic is NOT unique to Overwatch. Even Smite had similar mechanic and a lot of Paladins is clearly inspired a lot by that game.


Quote:
1/ You can't choose the same champion someone else in your team already chose. It would be fine if this were a MOBA with 100+ champions. But Paladins has only 16 now, so your choice is very limited (especially if you play for free, you start with only 8).
That does not mean they won't have 100+ champions. Smite also started with only few and grew to dozens.
Having multiple same characters works badly in terms of game balance. It literally breaks apart team dynamics and it is something taken from MOBA genre as well since hero shooter genre is all about fusing moba and fps together.

They plan to add at least one character every one or two patches. Next patch re-adds Ying, a dancer type of character who was there during alpha test but was taken out for a rework. The character is all about using mirrors - creating mirror clones that heal your allies and allow you to swap places with a clone or explode the clone, etc.
They also are re-adding traditional payload mode from alpha in next patch.



Quote:
2/ You can't change your champion during matches like in OW. While it's not a problem itself, the point is, unlike OW, the objective changes depending on the situation. You can capture the point, defend, or push the payload within the same match. The result is the imbalance among the champions. General purpose tanky dps champions are OP, while situational specialized champions are near useless.
I don't see how that is bad? That means you can't just counter stuff on the go and means that an effective team is actually effective because of their skill and not because they can just switch out to counter enemies. There's nothing wrong with having a role you stick to. That's not a bad game design, that is simply different from OW's more casual approach. For me personally being able to switch out heroes on the go was one of the most repulsive aspects of OW.

You still however can modify your performance by switching your card loadouts, essentially altering the way your various abilities perform.
Not to mention that every champion is very extensive in it's capabilities. Just being support does not mean you can't deal damage, for example.

The only champion that is OP right now is Skye. Everybody else is easily balanced and counter-able.

Quote:
3/ The loots from chests are pure garbage.
Don't see how having more gameplay options is garbage. Getting cards without paying gold for them so you can buy heroes is a great reward. Occasional skin chance is good too.

Last edited by Harry Dresden; 2016-09-23 at 05:38.
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Old 2016-09-23, 05:44   Link #9
Kismet-chan
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Some may or may not find this article interesting: Paladins’ Todd Harris Rebuts 'Overwatch Clone' Allegations
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Old 2016-09-23, 20:30   Link #10
Marcus H.
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^ Invalid link. Here's one site posting said article: http://massivelyop.com/2016/09/21/pa...e-allegations/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Harris
“We were shocked and not sure what direction to take. We were already so far along with Paladins, but we didn’t want to compete directly against Blizzard. We initially tried to find different ways to differentiate on game-play (different TTK, different style maps and game modes, different theme, etc), but the feedback from our tests, stats, and surveys showed that only a small part of our population was enjoying that style of game. In the end we said screw it and just made what we thought best, and closest to our original vision, even if people would think it’s too close to Overwatch. We created almost all the Paladins classes and abilities using Global Agenda and Smite as our template. We used our Aurum fantasy theme from 2012 and Smite characters as placeholders (although some like Grover the tree just stayed). As a last point, it would be almost impossible for a studio of our size to ‘clone’ Overwatch in a year, but Overwatch did have some nice features that we decided to incorporate into Paladins (Kill Cam, Improved Lag comp, some verbiage like ‘eliminations’).”
The article also mentioned another MMOTCG that suffered when it was launched close to the release date of Hearthstone.
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Old 2016-09-23, 21:45   Link #11
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Been watching quite a bit of YT vids from streamers on this game. Although this game is NOT a clone nor was it trying to copy Overwatch, it will always ride in OW's shadow and always be compared to OW simply because OW is made by Blizzard and Blizzard is big. Maybe if this game was released prior to any OW betas then it probably wouldn't have that much hate. I personally am not going to try out Paladins, I see no reason to when I already have OW and I think most OW players will think the same. I am not going to say Paladins is terrible since I never tried it and only watched videos, but it's hard NOT to compare it to OW and that's enough to stay away from Paladins. Good thing is though that it will attract non-OW owners since it's F2P.
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Old 2016-09-24, 06:24   Link #12
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Old 2016-09-24, 08:13   Link #13
Marcus H.
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I puked a little after hearing so much mentions of Overwatch in the video, especially with their tone that implies they don't believe the stand of Hirez in the issue.

But I guess that's how Roosterteeth handles "journalism".
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Old 2016-09-24, 12:14   Link #14
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That's not just RT, that is pretty much every single case of blizzard game. It happened with WOW(and still happens as you see any MMO with skill bars refered by journos as "a wow clone"), it happened for a while with Hearthstone, now suddenly TF2 and other hero shooters never existed and Blizz suddenly invented the genre. I pretty much learned not to pay attention to that nonsense.

Either way, game really needs a tutorial a lot. Far too many times you end up in a match where nobody selects a frontliner/tank or does not bother to play he heroes to their strengths. Sometimes that leads to some hilarious wins(ex: winning by capturing and pushing with freaking Skye instead of a missing frontliner). But otherwise it can be quite annoying. Having a decent tutorial can help with that for people

Last edited by Harry Dresden; 2016-09-24 at 12:48.
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Old 2016-10-26, 09:43   Link #15
Marcus H.
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I've finally given Paladins (and Steam) a try and so far, the game is totally fun.

So far I've played a handful of matches with the free heroes, and still currently has a positive record.

Kinessa was my very first hero to use. I'm at home with her gameplay, mainly standing around to get good shots, with the occasional oppression trap when the match reaches the payload stalking part. She has better handling compared to Viktor, whose gun jumps up like a fish out of water at the pull of the trigger. I'm not used to the teleporting skill, but I'll probably have to learn to use that.

Viktor is good enough, but I still prefer Kinessa over him. At least his skills are all usable in battle. Main issue is the massive recoil.

Skye made me enjoy being a flanker (at least during the sub-Level 5 matches). Basically, all she has to do is run around and pester the enemy team. I haven't used Skye much since I started playing with real people, mainly because the other players make sure to pick as many flankers or damagers as possible. As a result, most of my post-Level 5 matches were with either Fernando or Pip.

Pip has what I think is the toughest basic attack to pull off accurately. Most of the time, I can't hit those far away. But I guess it's part of being a support. I still suffer from a lot of deaths every time I play as Pip, and yet I feel that I will see this guy more.

Lastly, Fernando is currently the most fun and more productive hero that I have used. I have gone through games where I march mostly uncontested in Jaguar Falls. There are more times where I end up doing a mirror match with the enemy Fernando, though. I like his skill set, really. You get to shrug off anything that's not Drogoz's ult, then melt your enemies after the clash.

I think my favorite part of every match is thinking of which upgrades to buy, mainly to shut down that pesky healer or Fernando, or making sure that the moments of peace are well put into use.

Anyway, currently still at Level 8 and still relying on the default loadouts, but my first salvo already had two strangers adding me to their friendlist. It probably means that I did well, didn't I?
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Old 2016-11-08, 08:21   Link #16
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playing the crap out of it (in between civ6 sessions) lately, been maining ying and finally finding players who can take care of the objective (whew)

currently at level 13-ish, still learning the ropes, but it's starting to grow on me anyhow
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Old Yesterday, 01:33   Link #17
Marcus H.
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90+ hours into the game, and I'm starting to feel rather frustrated about the matchmaking.
Nothing that I can do actually helps in pushing the win.
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