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View Poll Results: Code Geass Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 73 57.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 23.44%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 11.72%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 3.91%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.78%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.78%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.78%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.78%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-03-04, 00:15   Link #161
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
He's fashionably becoming a more suitable successor.
No one is denying that either. Lulu hates his dad, but that doesn't mean he has to act directly opposite to him. Politics has been and always will be about manipulation, whether well-intended or otherwise.
Quote:
The unfortunate truth is, though, that the 'weak' he's protecting is mostly about Nunnally, but not everyone.
That's still a step up from his father, who protects no one at all. An improvement is an improvement.
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Old 2007-03-04, 00:20   Link #162
Juvyniled
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And I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
Are you going to suggest that Suzaku should spearhead an assault on Beijing to keep the peace now? Because this will be what Suzaku need to do. Zero isn't the problem; Britannia is. For as long as Britannia invade other nations continuously, there will be no peace.
I believe that was your suggestion was it not? SoldierOfDarkness merely stated that he believed Zero's death would stop all violence in Japan, true or not. It won't matter whether Suzaku should or should not be involved; Britannia will or will not order him to do so. From there, it's all speculation as to whether Suzaku will participate or not (since it is not the place he is trying to change things, but he has to follow orders or else it won't work anyway). Per his relationship with Euphemia, he may just be kept back on special orders.

Anyway....
Quote:
Seriously, starting a world-war to bring peace?
A war to end all wars. And it isn't technically a world war, if as you say, they START a new war when one ENDS. What exactly do you suppose Lelouch is doing?

Quote:
"Sorry to burn your capital city to ashes, but your children will thank me when we are one big nation! Love and Peace!"
Lovely quotes. And it is unfortunate that everyone is being manipulated by the emperor.
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Old 2007-03-04, 00:27   Link #163
Owaranai Destiny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
And I quote:
A war to end all wars. And it isn't technically a world war, if as you say, they START a new war when one ENDS. What exactly do you suppose Lelouch is doing?
Why not? Nothing better than having peace, minus the goddamned way they have been treating Elevens like lesser creatures. If this kind of treatment is going to spread, what comes around goes around. I won't be all that surprised if the next generation officers like Suzaku will be spending their time hauling their asses all over the world quelling rebellions and such, so as long as I don't see a change in their attitude towards the indigenous people, I'm against having a world united through war by Britannia.
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Old 2007-03-04, 00:31   Link #164
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I won't be all that surprised if the next generation officers like Suzaku will be spending their time hauling their asses all over the world quelling rebellions and such, so as long as I don't see a change in their attitude towards the indigenous people, I'm against having a world united through war by Britannia.
World unity may simply be a front for an ulterior motive. Someone did mention something about the emperor wanting control over all these 'ruins'.

Alrighty, I'll argue some more tomorrow.
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Old 2007-03-04, 00:37   Link #165
Owaranai Destiny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
World unity may simply be a front for an ulterior motive. Someone did mention something about the emperor wanting control over all these 'ruins'.

Alrighty, I'll argue some more tomorrow.
Which would strengthen my stance on failing to attain peace, because either way, Britannia has instilled fear and hatred through their uncompromising ways of treating the conquered for one. It may or may not incur the wrath and fear of others and cause them to take action for that. Getting rid of a perceived threat before it becomes very real is quite a possible course of action.
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Old 2007-03-04, 00:50   Link #166
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My thoughts on Suzaku

Suzaku believes that dedication (to death in his case) to his beliefs in changing Britannia will net some results. This is wrong and I think there may be some events that prove this to him.

Why it is wrong.
1. In death he cannot help those he wants to help or continue changing Britannia.
2. In death he will spur those who care for him (Nanali, Cecil, etc) into sadness and possibly anger.


On the Emperor


Quote:
World unity may simply be a front for an ulterior motive. Someone did mention something about the emperor wanting control over all these 'ruins'.

Alrighty, I'll argue some more tomorrow.
The Emperor may fully dedicated to his "evolution spurred by inequality", perhaps he seeks a staus that is beyond the one he has.

What interests me is the fact that he (and most of the other Britannian males for instance) have no "real" emotion. He does not care for his children or his wife (Episode 7 demonstrates this clearly, he didn't even say anything about Clovis's death being sad, he only praised it as being proof of evolution) Lelouch in a way is his antithesis and is spurred by his emotions.

Last edited by Avisch; 2007-03-04 at 10:47.
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Old 2007-03-04, 02:25   Link #167
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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A war to end all wars. And it isn't technically a world war, if as you say, they START a new war when one ENDS. What exactly do you suppose Lelouch is doing?
You completely missed the point.

Britannia does not care for peace.

Britannia does not care for peace.

Let me say it again. BRITANNIA DOES NOT CARE FOR PEACE.

No where did the Britannian ever suggest they fight wars to end wars. They fight to take what others have for their own. Peace is not their plan, so there will be no peace for as long as Britannia is still the world power.
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Old 2007-03-04, 02:37   Link #168
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You completely missed the point.

Britannia does not care for peace.

Britannia does not care for peace.

Let me say it again. BRITANNIA DOES NOT CARE FOR PEACE.

No where did the Britannian ever suggest they fight wars to end wars. They fight to take what others have for their own. Peace is not their plan, so there will be no peace for as long as Britannia is still the world power.

Very true, but perhaps what he meant was this: When there's nothing left to fight for, nothing left to conquer because everything is already theirs, be it world domination or otherwise, there will be peace. It's up to ourselves to think whether this is a pesudo-peace, a farce of Pax Romana or not. Peace in this sense will not be the primary objective, but merely a side effect to what they want to achieve, whatever it is.
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Old 2007-03-04, 02:43   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny View Post
Very true, but perhaps what he meant was this: When there's nothing left to fight for, nothing left to conquer because everything is already theirs, be it world domination or otherwise, there will be peace. It's up to ourselves to think whether this is a pesudo-peace, a farce of Pax Romana or not. Peace in this sense will not be the primary objective, but merely a side effect to what they want to achieve, whatever it is.
The problem here, is that since Britannia does not care for peace, it would do nothing to maintain it. This is exactly how Area 11 turned out; with the original population oppressed and with no reason to live except to be under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs or to fight Britannia.

So no. You can't have peace unless you actually want it.
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Old 2007-03-04, 02:59   Link #170
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You know, I just recalled something about WW I...Wasn't it called 'the war to end all wars'? Looked what happened.

In effect, for the world to have peace, Britannia must first stop it's conquests, which in effect can be done by either Suzaku's or Lelouch's goals:

Suzaku: As a politician, putting in place reforms or better still, get into the goddamned seat of power (or have some influence on the person sitting on it) and denounce monarchy.

Lelouch: Go the bloodied revolutionary's way, cutting down the root of the problem so that it won't ever rise up again. It remains to be seen if he will take the reins of power and what he will do with them, but that's my opinion.

Either way, Emperor must fall. Britannia's expansionist tendencies must stop.
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Old 2007-03-04, 04:03   Link #171
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the only way this war can end is for britannia to go crawling back to their own country which isnt going to happen unless the big guy at the top is dead ~ and even then i expect britannia to be knocked over soo hard with war crime charges it wouldnt be able to stand back up again ~
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Old 2007-03-04, 05:07   Link #172
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A good way to pay for all of Britannia's crimes is a nuke over its capital city.
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Old 2007-03-04, 05:20   Link #173
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A good way to pay for all of Britannia's crimes is a nuke over its capital city.
They would need to invent the Nuke first... Which, guess what, is exactly what Nina is working on.

On a different note, I am extremely impressed with the end of this episode. The Japanese flag on the ship was slowly tinted red as the camera fades out, which I believe is the metaphorical representation of how the Chinese Federation are the ones truly running this military operation.
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Old 2007-03-04, 10:21   Link #174
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the only way this war can end is for britannia to go crawling back to their own country which isnt going to happen unless the big guy at the top is dead ~ and even then i expect britannia to be knocked over soo hard with war crime charges it wouldnt be able to stand back up again ~
It is not the only way. Another is that the Numbers, following their hero Suzaku, all turn into SHEEPS or DOGS, and that the sons of other countries' PM/Presidents, following their hero Suzaku, all kill their fathers, and that the Numbers-to-be, then following their hero.....blah blah.... until there are only Britainian as human race ^_^
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Old 2007-03-04, 10:44   Link #175
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One thing that is interesting to note and hasn't been emphasized yet, is that Schneizel observed that mister Bigwig seems to be enthralled by those ruins, which have been found 'all around the world' (IIRC that's what was said) - but it was something he always kept for himself. Also, according to Schneizel, the location of those areas seem to be the basis for Britannia's path of conquest.

Could it be there might be more to Japan than the original Sakuradite conflict (putting Genbu's meddling aside, of course)?
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Old 2007-03-04, 10:50   Link #176
Owaranai Destiny
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Originally Posted by Renegade334 View Post
One thing that is interesting to note and hasn't been emphasized yet, is that Schneizel observed that mister Bigwig seems to be enthralled by those ruins, which have been found 'all around the world' (IIRC that's what was said) - but it was something he always kept for himself. Also, according to Schneizel, the location of those areas seem to be the basis for Britannia's path of conquest.

Could it be there might be more to Japan than the original Sakuradite conflict (putting Genbu's meddling aside, of course)?
There definitely is, after this episode. The question is, what are those ruins for? What do they contain? What can they do to benefit the Emperor in any way?

I noticed that the location seems to be pinpointed by a huge-ass GEASS sign, which might then explain Clovis' extreme reaction in Shinjuku to getting C.C back, because there apparently seems to be quite an important connection to C.C and the ruins (including the OP, of course as well as the similarities of the signs of the ruins to the sign of GEASS).
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Old 2007-03-04, 13:12   Link #177
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Originally I could only wonder why C.C. was in that pod and why the Britannians had their hands on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny
I noticed that the location seems to be pinpointed by a huge-ass GEASS sign, which might then explain Clovis' extreme reaction in Shinjuku to getting C.C back, because there apparently seems to be quite an important connection to C.C and the ruins (including the OP, of course as well as the similarities of the signs of the ruins to the sign of GEASS).
Leads me to believe that there are other "representatives" who have the ability to give Geass to others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccardoso
A good way to pay for all of Britannia's crimes is a nuke over its capital city.
A good way as well to disillusion people about war. In the past, everyone was in a rush to get nukes. The power in the palm of your hands (as Doc Occ phrased it in Spiderman 2). However, when everyone saw that massive devastation it brought, everyone's opinions changed, and that is really probably the only way to drastically change things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valliant
So no. You can't have peace unless you actually want it.
Change have to preserve and I would agree with it entirely. There is no way to have peace unless you do one thing: Force it upon everyone. If everyone believed in the same thing, were ruled by one entity, had the same values and beliefs, and were in essence 'all the same', then you could have peace. But the question is whether you would really want that.

Quote:
You completely missed the point.

Britannia does not care for peace.

Britannia does not care for peace.

Let me say it again. BRITANNIA DOES NOT CARE FOR PEACE.

No where did the Britannian ever suggest they fight wars to end wars. They fight to take what others have for their own. Peace is not their plan, so there will be no peace for as long as Britannia is still the world power.
My, my you are a persistent fellow. Britannia probably does not care for peace. But could it in essence achieve it? As I said before, if the empire could control the people in all aspects, would they not have peace? It's not a matter of peace, it's a matter of what that peace really is, and how it is achieved. It's a state of peace that people want, not absolute peace (in ideology it would be deemed as absolute peace, but that is not possible when everyone has their own values and beliefs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny
Very true, but perhaps what he meant was this: When there's nothing left to fight for, nothing left to conquer because everything is already theirs, be it world domination or otherwise, there will be peace. It's up to ourselves to think whether this is a pesudo-peace, a farce of Pax Romana or not. Peace in this sense will not be the primary objective, but merely a side effect to what they want to achieve, whatever it is.
Perfectly summed up my thoughts.
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Old 2007-03-04, 13:52   Link #178
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
My, my you are a persistent fellow. Britannia probably does not care for peace. But could it in essence achieve it? As I said before, if the empire could control the people in all aspects, would they not have peace? It's not a matter of peace, it's a matter of what that peace really is, and how it is achieved. It's a state of peace that people want, not absolute peace (in ideology it would be deemed as absolute peace, but that is not possible when everyone has their own values and beliefs).
Damn, look at this Thomas Hobbes right here. Peace through superior firepower is a myth, and the Pax Romana was a farce. Rome suffered from brutal civil wars every hundred years or so and there were frequent rebellions which were only put down through massacre and atrocity and which didn't spread only by the slowness of communication and ineffectiveness of the available force multipliers (it is really hard to carry out guerilla warfare with a sword or bows. rifles are really effective and make surprise even more of an advantage than it is otherwise.) The only way to achieve lasting stability is to give people a stake in the peace themselves; when you have an aristocrat's peace, like Rome or - dare i say it! - Britannia, you're going to be dealing with constant peasant uprisings. Damn lowborn/aboriginals/serfs don't know their place!
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Old 2007-03-04, 14:07   Link #179
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Oh? Never read a novel by Hobbes before so I wouldn't know the connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coefficient
Peace through superior firepower is a myth
Simply firepower alone probably, but toss in some propaganda and you might just have yourself some 'peace'. It might not be the kind of peace where you are allowed to think freely, but no violence is peace is it not? Hence, what I believe that you are thinking of is absolute peace. Not possible without extreme measures (prove me wrong). You can't simply expect everyone to agree, and as long as there is a difference in opinion between people, there will always be some conflict to some extent.

Feed the people, give them something to motivate them, and as long as they're occupied, you can maintain your peace. Unsatisfaction and disquietude will most inevitably lead to rebellion, so keep them 'happy'.
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Old 2007-03-04, 15:20   Link #180
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
Simply firepower alone probably, but toss in some propaganda and you might just have yourself some 'peace'. It might not be the kind of peace where you are allowed to think freely, but no violence is peace is it not? Hence, what I believe that you are thinking of is absolute peace. Not possible without extreme measures (prove me wrong). You can't simply expect everyone to agree, and as long as there is a difference in opinion between people, there will always be some conflict to some extent.

Feed the people, give them something to motivate them, and as long as they're occupied, you can maintain your peace. Unsatisfaction and disquietude will most inevitably lead to rebellion, so keep them 'happy'.
You're a believer of totalitan beliefs?
It looks like you were born 100 years too late.

Don't expect the "kill all enemies and you will be at peace" to be supported or agreed by the massess. Further attempt to gain understanding is moot.
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