Claymore - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Zu Ra]

On a sidenote regarding comparisions Ilena's entry even beats Gai's Dynamic Entry (Naruto)

[P.G.]

I was impressed seeing this episode, Priscilla & Teressa were awesome, and yes, I feel like DBZ too since those two were pawning each other with light speed & causing their surroundings to crumble.

[Fenrir_valindri]

DBZ comparisons are inevitable in shonen.

DBZ is kind of the grandfather of shonen after all, so comparisons between it and other shonen are easy to make. Atleast they are not flying and throwing energy blasts at each other from long range, while blowing up planets, not to mention wasting episodes upon episodes of charging there "last remaning strength"

I actually thought they did a rather impressive job considering how little there is to animate when going from panels to animation.
This style is easily one of the more common animation styles for high speed fighting after all. I do hope we will see less of it in the future, but I realy do not demerit them for using it at all.

Someone mentioned being disappointed in the lack of development for the new characters. I believe this is a bit unfair in all honesty, they were just introduced after all, and they have already shown more personality then Adult Clare did in the first 2 episodes of this series.

Not every character introduced can be a major one, I would put most of these new claymore's in the same character catagory as Galk from episode 3-4, they get some minor development so they are not just faceless people to us, but at the same time they are not rolling out the red-carpet of main-character-ism for most of them either.

On a final note; I did find it amusing that Priscilla is the arctypical shonen hero type, her black and white out look on life is obviously going to cause her trouble in the very grey world of Claymore.

Edit: one last thing, people should keep in mind this kind of fighting is to represent the immense speed and power of the top 3 Claymores in this episode (Teresa, Priscilla, and (Flash-Sword) Irene) notice that 3-4 (oops ment 4-5 ) do not move the same way that these three do, that is probably because the top 3 really are that much faster, although with them releasing their Yoma power they might start moving that quickly as well.

My hope is, we are basically seeing some of the strongest people in this series fight atm, so it is possible that once this flash-back is over, that we will be back to Clare, who's fighting speed is displayed in episode 3-4 against the humans and Big-Yoma, bit then again, maybe not

[Kabitzin]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

If they are cannon fodder, then that's fair enough. Fights against cannon fodder just bore me, though. It's action for the sake of action, which isn't the reason why I watch series like this.

It's funny how the Yoma don't get any screen time anymore (though you are talking about scrub Claymore in this case). Previously the Yoma would have plans and fight moves and all that. Now you just see a spray of purple blood and they kinda fall to the floor in 2 pieces.

I give it 2 more episodes before we simply get Yoma Death Stock Footage .

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Kabitzin

It's funny how the Yoma don't get any screen time anymore (though you are talking about scrub Claymore in this case). Previously the Yoma would have plans and fight moves and all that. Now you just see a spray of purple blood and they kinda fall to the floor in 2 pieces.

I give it 2 more episodes before we simply get Yoma Death Stock Footage .

Not to suprising when you consider the power that the Claymore's that they are fighting wield. I mean 1-5? they are pretty boned

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

The problem is that the show has gone from 'gripping character and relationship analysis coupled with great story-telling' in one episode to 'standard action fare' in the next. I mean, I get that these new characters are distinct, but there's very little to them at this stage. They're motivated by a job, have no background and, at this stage, are only really there to provide a conflict for Teresa.

With all due respect, isn't that a little bit oblivious? After two character-development and drama-centric episodes, we now had _one_ action-centric episode, which was STILL strong in character development. This is a shonen action drama, so better get used to the idea that there WILL be action. Unlike most other shows of this genre, it's still woven into the overall storyline very well. Numbers 2-5 already ARE distinct (I'm glad we agree there), but of course they don't have the same depth as the main characters. OF COURSE NOT. The only possibility to introduce them more would be to deviate from the main story even more than just the Yoma hunt, and that simply would have killed the pacing and momentum.

I mean, there's no reason why they won't be developed into real characters with proper motivations and emotions down the road, but until they are any fight against them will just be little more than another action scene against a slightly tougher opponent. That just lacks drama, IMO. I'd much prefer fight scenes with complex characters and motivations that aren't totally black-and-white.

And they aren't. Numbers 2-5 have some very differing motivations to go. Priscilla for idealism, Irene for sober "carry out the job", Noel for the challenge... so who is black and who is white? Are 2-5 bad for abiding by the organization rules? Is Teresa bad for defying them?

No, the strength of Claymore is exactly that it's NOT black-and-white. There are no universally good or bad guys. Since I'd say you're one of the most clear-eyed reviewers on this board, I'm a bit puzzled that you seem to disagree here ^_^;

And it'd be fair if this were the first fight between them, and Teresa gets away for another conflict down the road. That'd give them time to flesh-out these characters as well as Teresa and Clair. But if they fight again and these antagonists are still as flat, it'd be much harder to forgive.

There's absolutely nothing to "forgive" in the first place. Also, you better keep something else in mind: This isn't standard shonen fare which has the old fight-lose-train-get-stronger-fight-win setup. In Claymore, when you lose, you don't get a pat on the back, a silver medal and "come back when you're stronger". Losses count, and you usually do NOT return anymore...

[dutchman]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Interesting that you should compare the action with HK-style slo-mo action. That may in fact partly explain why I'm not particularly "wowed" by the action in this episode. It's a matter of personal taste really, rather than a direct criticism of the action cheoragraphy in this episode.

The predominant trend in most HK-style action films nowadays is towards flashy, over-the-top "wire-fu", vs authentic martial arts combat. The last movie I've seen that featured true martial arts was Huo Yuanjia, purportedly Jet Li's "last" martial-arts film.

Sure, the Claymores move at superhuman speeds, and are capable of superhuman feats of strength and agility. But on-screen, all I see are blurs of "super-fast" animation, which in my opinion, cheapens the action actually. I don't "see" the skill, if you get what I mean. What I see instead, is lots of special effects.

Don't get me wrong -- the action as presented in this episode is well done, or I wouldn't have rated Episode 7 highly at all. But, frankly, this is not the kind of action that excites me at all. What I'd really like to see are battles of skills and tactical wits. More brains than brawns, if you will.

I know what you mean and I do agree on most of the points.

However don't lose sight of the fact that this is an TV anime with an limited budget. To really pull of what you suggest is basically a frame for frame drawn out fighting sequence. Which would probably blow up their budget.

Another alternative is going full CGI like for example 'final fantasy advent children' or James Cameron upcoming CGI project of 'Battle Angel Alita'. However Claymore is currently not (yet) popular enough to justify such huge amounts of capital by an studio like 'Madhouse'.

Also both you and I agree on the fact that the claymores fight at superhuman speeds and strenght. If you watch at modern Kendo and fencing matches most of the untrained people cannot even properly follow when someone scores a hit without the modern help aids like flashing signals and electronic registration.

So having plp fight at 5-6 times the speed of olympic fencer. I am not sure if that is even very exiting. Because the normal human eye can't even keep up.

So I don't mind them using the blurring techniques to give us somehow the illusion/impression of how an fight at supersonic speeds would look.

And the specific frame I mentioned gave me a nice impression of speed you see an slow motion attack and then bam! Suddenly an abrupt switch to 'normal' speed.

I hope anything I said made sense if not just forget about it

[chrry370]

I loved this episode and i have to do admit it was action packed. But it was cool! Teresa sure showed no 2-5 that she's no 1! Although i have to say i was very worrited that Priscilla would actually beat her....

Irene's character intro also had my attention...love her too!

I have a very bad feeling...but Teresa's story seem to be ending soon... (NOO!!! I LOVE TERESA! )

I just can't believe a wonderful character is coming to an end...and NO i haven't read the manga! Just a bad feeling i have...

Going over to a corner to sob

9/10 i gave this one...

[zato_1one]

Well, this kind of story is very common in shonen series. Protagonist breaks the rule or do something wrong then new characters are sent to hunt and punish him/her.

At first they just take their own role. Fight to protect one's life or fight because of duty. But after fought each other about 1-3 times, they became more intimate. And eventually become close friend or may be a rival. During that process a series will gradually reveal more background for those new comers. It's a common way to introduce new character in shonen series. Fight before talk.

Man, do you even care who is Ikkaku when he first encounter with Ichigo? Claymore is also a shonen series but it has its own style. You will discover it soon. And I think that this episode also has a slight character development. But I don't even want to mention it because it can lead to spoiler.

Don't forget that this is just a flashback arc. If you really want drama, Claymore can serve it but it may not full your appetite.

[Lost]

I wouldn't give this episode a 10, or even a 9. It was good, yes, but not awesome or outstanding. It is the same with almost every Claymore episode to date, from my point of view. I echo Sorrow_K's words :

Action packed ep for sure, but I'm not a huge fan of this style of action, where actual fighting is substituted for effects and blur lines and stuff like that. Sort of cheapens the whole thing, IMO. Oh well, I'm not really an action fan to begin with.

What I did like, as Mentar states one page before, is how they fleshed out Claymores 2 thru 5. I found Priscilla's character rather interesting and amusing; a fresh change/contrast to the rest of the hardened Claymores. I thought it was a pity that Teresa didn't try to explain the issue fully to Priscilla. I hope to see Teresa in Yoma mode.

[Deathkillz]

^ she has too if she doesnt want her head to fall onto the floor O.o
i for one really liked all the fancy effects in this ep...super sonic speed and awesome movements is my kinda thing for situations like these to show the l33tness of the top claymores

but as i say again we dont really need to know Priscilla that much cause she is going to die in the end (or i hope so for a double knockout situation )

i wonder if they are going to show how clare becomes a claymore

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

i wonder if they are going to show how clare becomes a claymore

Doesn't the name for the next episode give it away?

[Deathkillz]

"awakening" doesnt have to mean clare...it could mean teresa turning on her demon mode :3

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

"awakening" doesnt have to mean clare...it could mean teresa turning on her demon mode :3

Well if you watch the ED closely, the sword in the ground, with Clare facing away from it, has Teresa's symbol on it.... least I think it's her symbol.

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by Lost

I thought it was a pity that Teresa didn't try to explain the issue fully to Priscilla.

This may be more appropriate for the ep. 6 thread, but I guess since this episode continues to deal with the repercussions...

I'm not sure what she was supposed to explain. "See, Priscilla, the Organization is wrong. If you find a person you care about, you should be allowed to kill anyone who threatens that person, including humans. Forget the fact that you could just easily knock bad people like robbers out in a flash, tie them up, and let the authorities deal with them. If you feel like it, you should just go ahead and kill them. It's good to have unsupervised eventually-to-be-turned-into-a-youma running around, killing anyone they think deserves to die."

OK, this may have been a bit over the top , but I am nevertheless surprised that no one (that I've seen, might have missed it) had any problem whatsoever with Theresa's style of vigilante justice. I know we're supposed to support her because she's "cool" and, well, we're just plain set up to root for her, but I don't think the Organization's policy automatically makes them the villains in this situation. It's not that I'm necessarily advocating an instant death sentence for a single offense, but the Organization may have pretty good reasons to nip these kinds of problems in the bud, considering who (plural) they're dealing with, and what relaxation of discipline could potentially bring with it. After all, they don't know that Theresa won't continue killing people as she pleases, and as a clearly identifiable "silver-eyed witch", such actions would have repercussions for the organization all such people are known to belong to.

As much as I like Theresa, she didn't have to kill those robbers. Not with her superior abilities. She did it because she wanted to do it.

Besides, I like 2-5 and this gave them a good excuse to show up and really kick ass (as opposed to just casually mowing through some youma).

[Grey]

Originally Posted by yononaka

As much as I like Theresa, she didn't have to kill those robbers. Not with her superior abilities. She did it because she wanted to do it.

You're right. She could have just taken Clare, and let the bandits continue ransacking the village. Or she could have knocked them all out, and left so that they could finish ransacking the village a few hours later when they woke up. She might even search enough rope to tie up a couple dozen bandits, so that they might have to spend an extra hour trying to release themselves.

What I'm saying is that it's not clear the Organization cares a whit about bandits. It may be that they're a strict mercenary group, offering assistance by killing Yoma--if they're paid--and doing nothing more. And since the location was apparently a remote mountain village, it's not clear there were any authorities to deal with the issue.

Yes, the bandits ticked Teresa off, and she killed them all. But it's not clear that not killing them is much better.

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by Grey

What I'm saying is that it's not clear the Organization cares a whit about bandits. It may be that they're a strict mercenary group, offering assistance by killing Yoma--if they're paid--and doing nothing more. And since the location was apparently a remote mountain village, it's not clear there were any authorities to deal with the issue.

Yes, the bandits ticked Teresa off, and she killed them all. But it's not clear that not killing them is much better.

So far I haven't seen that the Org doesn't allow Claymores to take care of law-enforcement problems if and when they aren't otherwise engaged. They are, however, strictly forbidden to kill people. Unless you think that Theresa had no other viable way to neutralize the robbers, I'm not sure I undestand your point. IMHO she had options other than killing available to her, and still chose to kill. From the Org's point of view, I can see how that could be seen as a big problem.

(BTW, if, as you say, the bandits hadn't finished ransacking the village, knocking them out would have given the remaining villagers the opportunity to deal with them as they saw fit. Including killing them, if there were no authorities to turn to. Per the rules we've heard, I doubt Theresa would have been penalized for that.)

[orion]

Originally Posted by yononaka

So far I haven't seen that the Org doesn't allow Claymores to take care of law-enforcement problems if and when they aren't otherwise engaged. They are, however, strictly forbidden to kill people. Unless you think that Theresa had no other viable way to neutralize the robbers, I'm not sure I undestand your point. IMHO she had options other than killing available to her, and still chose to kill. From the Org's point of view, I can see how that could be seen as a big problem.

(BTW, if, as you say, the bandits hadn't finished ransacking the village, knocking them out would have given the remaining villagers the opportunity to deal with them as they saw fit. Including killing them, if there were no authorities to turn to. Per the rules we've heard, I doubt Theresa would have been penalized for that.)

Yep, Teresa could have done anything to stop them as long as those bandits survived her actions. She amputated one of the bandit's hands and the organization didn't care. She went over the top when she killed them.

[HinaThePrince]

For all those who're saying "But Teresa could've knocked them out and call the other village people" or whatever - yes, in theory she could have, but she obviously wasn't thinking clearly that time so you can't really expect her to act logically. Plus, Teresa isn't a saint. It'd be completely out of character for her to always do what's right. So yeah, she could've just knocked them up. Yeah, Clare could have not become a Claymore. But then we'd have boring characters, and most importantly, no plot.

[Defiled one]

It was the heat of the moment that caused her to kill. She found Clare in that state and she "clicked"