World Of Warcraft Discussion Thread

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by GDB

What about the homogenizing of classes and removal of any level of research to know a role? Those are big ones for me (in fact, the former was something I hated in WotLK too).

Well I cannot specifically list everything But I do agree on that.

Originally Posted by Jaden

Yeah, actually Sintharia died as well in one of the novels, when one of her experiments went out of control. Kind of hard to get excited about the lore when they retcon this much! Or could there be some kind of explanation for how Deathwing is able to resurrect them all...?

Well the preview model of Sintharia did look sorta Undead.. Also Nefarian and Onyxia get an Undead look as well, so its basically breaking the rule of "Once your dead, its all over" Just like how we face Kael'Thas for the 2nd time in Magister's Terrace... Its probably going to be like "Blackrock Spire was merely a setback!"..

Also I do remember Sintharia dying from one of her experiments, was it the very first Twilight Dragon? Also if you look in BC, she does make an appearance in Burning Crusade when you are infiltrating the Fel Orcs in Shadowmoon Valley

[Last Sinner]

Lv83 dungeon loot quality:

Weapons
Cloth
Rings, Trinkets, Necks, Offhands
Leather
Mail
Plate

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Lv83 dungeon loot quality:

Weapons
Cloth
Rings, Trinkets, Necks, Offhands
Leather
Mail
Plate

Hmm three things I can't help but notice here, first the complete and total lack of spellpower on anything except the weapons, is that going to be standard for cata? Or is it due to int giving everyone SP now that is only needs to be on the weapon?

And I noticed they've dropped the agi/AP combo on leather/mail armor it seems, I assume they're just putting what would go in to Attack Power before into pure AGI?

Lastly the trinkets seem to have good static effects, but on proc seem rather low I mean 220 mp5 is the exact same about a blue for HoL HC provided, and also I thought they were dropping mp5 completely as a stat, so why is it on that trinket even?

Edit: ... is it just me or do the caster 'weapons' have pitifully low melee DPS?[not good for healers hoping to gain anything thru questing ~_~]

[GDB]

I like how numbers are getting so freaking inflated that the spell power on a level 83 sword alone is equal to like 75% of what I recall my spell power being with various badge gear. But because of this, I'm thinking that yeah, there's no spell power on anything but weapons. The rest you have to get from INT.

[Xacual]

I thought it was a 1 to 1 ratio of int to spellpower? Maybe I'm wrong but its not like you won't get more spellpower from gear than from your weapon. The reason blizz said they wanted weapons to still have spellpower was because they couldn't put 1k+ int on a weapon.

Also why would healers want weapons with good melee dps, they don't melee and with all the buffs and changes to their trees now they should be able to put out decent numbers using their spells like they should have been before.

[Last Sinner]

I guess I'd better finally update my beta and see what it is like. However, Blizzard blue posts have said that people not wearing quest reward gear from Uldum/Twilight Highlands are supposed to struggle all the way to 85.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Xacual

Also why would healers want weapons with good melee dps, they don't melee and with all the buffs and changes to their trees now they should be able to put out decent numbers using their spells like they should have been before.

Holy paladins have always depended on melee damage for soloing as we have all of two or three magical based damage moves[holy shock and exorcism, maybe judgments now if it's been change else it's in melee group], while we're still going to be crusader strike, hammer of wrath, a melee seal as caster seal isn't need solo I currently use seal of vengeance when soloing ussually, and that shield slam or whatever it's call for paladin, maybe other healer have it differently, but good chunk of our solo DPS is from melee on paladin, and those blues have really awful melee DPS for caster, I mean my current weapon has 118.6 DPS and those have about third of that?, I better hope blizzard doesn't expect me to kill stuff with just three spells[that all have a decent CD ].

[Last Sinner]

To that, all I have to say is my Paladin was my fastest 80 by a considerable margin. And I did it in Retribution. Could solo anything until Grizlly Hills elites in crappy levelling gear and heirlooms.

[Xacual]

I've never seen anyone level as holy and quest. All the holy pallies I've seen just instanced or went Ret until 80.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Xacual

I've never seen anyone level as holy and quest. All the holy pallies I've seen just instanced or went Ret until 80.

That would take quite the time if anyone chose to level up as holy... By questing instead of dungeon running..

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Hooves

That would take quite the time if anyone chose to level up as holy... By questing instead of dungeon running..

Eh, really it was pretty fast aside from 60~69 in outlands, beside you're missing fact healers get queue a lot faster than DPS.

Originally Posted by Xacual

I've never seen anyone level as holy and quest. All the holy pallies I've seen just instanced or went Ret until 80.

Guess I am weird then and blizzard was supposedly trying to make questing a better option for exping for a healer and/or tank in cata, so giving us weapons with pitifully DPS is going againist that, and currently doing quest/dungeon is ok, but you're going to give us weapons with 11% of the DPS a tank or one hand melee would get is kinda of bullcrap in that area consider current caster weapons generally have about 60% ratio to tank/one hand melee weapon. I mean that makes giving holy paladin crusader strike, well completely pointless even in solo with DPS that awful.

[Last Sinner]

Well, this is the thing. Ret Pallies may have the damage but not the survivability to grind through Cata. Prot Pallies may have the survivability but not the damage since all AoE has been nerfed hard. Have fun sorting that out. All I know is unless they finally freaking fixed normal spells, I'm sticking to Ice Lance spam after getting Frozen Fingers.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Well, this is the thing. Ret Pallies may have the damage but not the survivability to grind through Cata. Prot Pallies may have the survivability but not the damage since all AoE has been nerfed hard. Have fun sorting that out. All I know is unless they finally freaking fixed normal spells, I'm sticking to Ice Lance spam after getting Forzen Fingers.

So we are going to see paladins going Holy simply for the survivability and the Shockadin damage for Cataclysm questing?

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Hooves

So we are going to see paladins going Holy simply for the survivability and the Shockadin damage for Cataclysm questing?

Holy maybe, but "shockadin" are dead completely in cata with talent tree system change, since a shockadin generally depended on having good talents from holy and one other tree, which isn't really possible under the new system. Unless blizzard really does make holy shock an all specs spell, then maybe we'll see some weird form of it show up.

[Xacual]

From the maintankadin boards I'm not hearing of any prot pallies having issues killing stuff and questing? Just because AoE was nerfed doesn't mean we're gimped.

[GDB]

Shockadin in the classical sense will probably be dead. However, I know towards the end of BC I'd do my dailies as Holy spec, in my holy gear, but with a Trollbane in place of sword and board. That basically gave me auto-attacks, Holy Shock, and Judgment as my damaging skills. When I got to the demons and could throw Exorcisms, they obviously died faster, but I'd start dropping mana quickly. But it really wasn't that slow back then, you just didn't 2-shot things. I know things have more life now, and will obviously have exponentially more like in Cata, but it'd still be a possible route to take.

For Ret, it's quick to level until you get to some higher end elites (as stated before). If you're lucky and do things properly, you may be able to do equal level group quests (in Wrath). This likely won't be the case in Cata though, but they'd still be good solo levelers as long as you stay away from elites and group quests.

Protection, while slower than Ret, offers insane survivability. While you still have to put effort in to fight elites and group quests, you don't really have to worry that much as long as you do put the effort in. Of course, you'll probably need to fight multiple mobs at once, just not full-on "AE" mode like people do in Wrath. Think ~3mobs instead of ~14.

[Hooves]

@GDB - You make very good points

Originally Posted by Konakaga

Holy maybe, but "shockadin" are dead completely in cata with talent tree system change, since a shockadin generally depended on having good talents from holy and one other tree, which isn't really possible under the new system. Unless blizzard really does make holy shock an all specs spell, then maybe we'll see some weird form of it show up.

We may never know, they switch a lot of talents up with another talent tree, like how I noticed they switched Hysteria from the Death Knight Blood Tree over to Unholy Tree and renamed it "Unholy Frenzy" since Blood is being converted into a full tank spec. So we may never know till we find out.

Originally Posted by Xacual

From the maintankadin boards I'm not hearing of any prot pallies having issues killing stuff and questing? Just because AoE was nerfed doesn't mean we're gimped.

This is true, they still have "Holy Shield" "Shield of Righteous" and all sorts of single target spells that can replace the nerf of their AoE spells.

[Xacual]

ATM Protadins have crusader strike, avengers shield, shield of the righteous, judgement and some aoe spells like consecration, holy wrath to fill in slots. Holy Shield isn't a casted spell anymore its just a buff applied by using Shield of the Righteous.

Also everyone got AoE nerfed, all the tanks, all the dps etc. Blizz did not like how the end of BC / all of Wrath became AoE pull everything so its a straight across the board nerf.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Xacual

ATM Protadins have crusader strike, avengers shield, shield of the righteous, judgement and some aoe spells like consecration, holy wrath to fill in slots. Holy Shield isn't a casted spell anymore its just a buff applied by using Shield of the Righteous.

When did the Prot tree get Crusader Strike ... I thought that was going to be in the Ret tree... Also the Holy Shield being a buff applied by Shield of the Righteous will make it easier for Protadins in a way

[Xacual]

Crusader strike became a level 2? trained skill near the start of beta. So all paladins would have that skill while leveling. They are making it the single target skill for prot and hammer of the righteous is now our aoe skill. They are both on the same cooldown and they both give holy power. So just depends on if you are aoe tanking or single target tanking which skill you use.