Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[winter45]

Wingdarkness does have a point here.....

Just being re-reading posts (200 or so) Alot of people have been complaining but missed the whole point of the recap.. this isnt seed or destiny where its showing same old crap with a narrator blabbering crap we already know..

This recap is like old material format that is now being used as new material while being anaylised by 3rd party group (observers). Which in essence are telling the story of what happened (past) to what they think of the situaton (present) and what changes they may do to at a later date (Future). So you could kinda say its a multi-format recap. (cant find a better way to describe this)

So this isnt a typical recap where its explainng past episodes filling the casual audience who may skipped a few episodes here and there... After watching this epsiode the 3rd time now im starting to enjoy the recap segment than i did the first time round..

But im still not fond of recaps..... But this has to be THE BEST RECAP IVE EVER SEEN... Now if they make recap episodes with this style with other series....

I think we should have a new thread of possible pairs hooking up...

still rooting for setsuna x neena

[Sir Dearka]

Yeah, in terms of form, I really appreciated this episode. All the recaps should be done this way. In terms of "edibility", I'd give it a 9/10.

My Heart asks: Why am I not as excited as I was in the previous episode?

My Brain tells: It's just that you are always dominant, Heart, and if you do not "feel that", there's no way Sir Dearka'd appreciate the show.

5/10. Just because I didn't like how the Thrones entered and somehow I don't feel so excited about this whole Alejandro Corner plotmaster thing. Maybe I just saw it coming. I hope that the characters'll manage toengage me emotionally in their struggles, but I feel this is going to be tough. Matter of mood and taste.

Looking forward tothe next episode, though.

[wtfftw]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Alrighty...

First off let me say that I understand that many of us have different ways of thinking and viewing things....We all soak in the things we like and tend to spin it in our directions (even unintentionally), even the things we hate, but after reading all 300 plus posts of this thread today I think it's a bit dense that many people looked at this as simply a recap ep...If you were to meticulously breakdown every aspect of this episode I think it is clear that the section involving the "re-capped" material is the NEW MATERIAL...This is the most revealing episode in the entire series...I mean I'm shaking my head at posters who are talking about "Well I could have went without the whole observer part...", or "Well atleast half the ep was new..." Dudes and dudettes, we've just been fed crumbs showing us how CB operates...We just found out that Alejandro Corner has been using a stealth organization inside CB that created their own Gundams...We just found out how and why Setsuna, Sumeragi, and Allelujah's actions we being judged behind the scenes (When most of us thought it's just Gundam as usual--With protocol violations just being swept under the mat)...We were just given an inside view of how and why certain teams were deployed for certain operations and the rationale behind them (When most of you were just content with saying "ZOMG that's a Gundam' during those early eps)...I'm just saying, even if it was Sunrise's plan to have the writers create a non-C.E. recap episode, they STILL were able to introduce old material as new material, without distorting the flow of the episode in the process...Sunofagun, man...

And that was a memo...

Now for the episode at-large...Man I was highly entertained by this ep...Sometimes it's hard to use both your brain and your heart...Let me give you an example...After the first sequence in this episode ending with the Hellalized Phoenix Heat Signature Minovsky Particles this is what each part of me thought:

HEART: Damn that was cool how she released this ridiculous over the top power surge...It was equally ridiculous how each of the Gundams came on to the scene just killing $hit...The 360 degree cockpits, the steel dart fin-funnels, the blood spray rifle that killed so many awesome Overflaggers (Except for Graham ofcourse who skilled his way outta danger)...It was just visual yummyiness (Especially if you saw the HD raw)...I had chills, loving every second of it...

BRAIN: Oh $hit this might be a little bit too over the top...I have to be honest with myself since my biggest criticism of GSD is that the technological advancements murdered the universe...Overwhelming action that had been so contained in this series, is now ready to bust open at the seams...If this is just episode 15, man I shutter to think how retarded the technology is gonna advance...And now we have 7 Gundams verses the world with no Gundams...This $hit is frightening me...

So...

HEART: 9 outta 10

BRAIN: 6 outta 10

wingdarkness: 8 outta 10 (With the " worthless recap" stuff being my favorite part of the ep)

If you got a question for me, I'll answer with both my brain and my heart, so shoot...As for the rest I'll comment on the new meisters vs. the old meisters and what I think Corner is up to in later posts...F-it I'll say it now^^...I think Corner is trying to destroy or reshape CB into his ideal image and this power struggle will commence in the eventual in-fighting between each group...Also atleast one of the Throne pilots will die freeing up a Gundam...So chew on that for now ^o^...

Spoiler for Weekly Gundam Power rankings:

1)Hallelujah (Still scares me $hitless)
2)Graham Acre (Hey that preview pushed him up a spot for me)
3)Ali Al Sarsas (WTF happened to him?)
4)Soma (Brooklyn DODGER)
5)Setsuna F. Say Yeah (Guuuuuundam!!)
6)Sergei Smirnov (Oldtype gets credit for just staying alive this ep)
7)Tieria (Patrick captured you man, I mean woman...)
8)Allelujah (Who turned off the lights?)
9)Lockon (Nuuumbaa 1 in the ranged pilot's poll)
10)Patrick (Whew...)
11)Darryl (Showed me something dodging those blood sprays^^)


Throne pilots shall be added next week if they show piloting skills...

amen

you forgot to mention neena's cute voice xP and eXXXXXXterrrrrrrrrminato'

[Dean_the_Young]

Good points there; I'll have to watch the sub myself to get it (it didn't come out in time for the weekend for me).

But I have just had the scariest thought of the season which will make you bleed.

Three facts, that's all I'll say.

Neena said that she doesn't like indecisive men, yes?

Graham is the most decisive man of the series so far, yes?

Graham is a Char, yes?

[Sinestra]

Spoiler for Wingdarkness's Post "Saving Space":

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Alrighty...

First off let me say that I understand that many of us have different ways of thinking and viewing things....We all soak in the things we like and tend to spin it in our directions (even unintentionally), even the things we hate, but after reading all 300 plus posts of this thread today I think it's a bit dense that many people looked at this as simply a recap ep...If you were to meticulously breakdown every aspect of this episode I think it is clear that the section involving the "re-capped" material is the NEW MATERIAL...This is the most revealing episode in the entire series...I mean I'm shaking my head at posters who are talking about "Well I could have went without the whole observer part...", or "Well atleast half the ep was new..." Dudes and dudettes, we've just been fed crumbs showing us how CB operates...We just found out that Alejandro Corner has been using a stealth organization inside CB that created their own Gundams...We just found out how and why Setsuna, Sumeragi, and Allelujah's actions we being judged behind the scenes (When most of us thought it's just Gundam as usual--With protocol violations just being swept under the mat)...We were just given an inside view of how and why certain teams were deployed for certain operations and the rationale behind them (When most of you were just content with saying "ZOMG that's a Gundam' during those early eps)...I'm just saying, even if it was Sunrise's plan to have the writers create a non-C.E. recap episode, they STILL were able to introduce old material as new material, without distorting the flow of the episode in the process...Sunofagun, man...

And that was a memo...

Now for the episode at-large...Man I was highly entertained by this ep...Sometimes it's hard to use both your brain and your heart...Let me give you an example...After the first sequence in this episode ending with the Hellalized Phoenix Heat Signature Minovsky Particles this is what each part of me thought:

HEART: Damn that was cool how she released this ridiculous over the top power surge...It was equally ridiculous how each of the Gundams came on to the scene just killing $hit...The 360 degree cockpits, the steel dart fin-funnels, the blood spray rifle that killed so many awesome Overflaggers (Except for Graham ofcourse who skilled his way outta danger)...It was just visual yummyiness (Especially if you saw the HD raw)...I had chills, loving every second of it...

BRAIN: Oh $hit this might be a little bit too over the top...I have to be honest with myself since my biggest criticism of GSD is that the technological advancements murdered the universe...Overwhelming action that had been so contained in this series, is now ready to bust open at the seams...If this is just episode 15, man I shutter to think how retarded the technology is gonna advance...And now we have 7 Gundams verses the world with no Gundams...This $hit is frightening me...

So...

HEART: 9 outta 10

BRAIN: 6 outta 10

wingdarkness: 8 outta 10 (With the " worthless recap" stuff being my favorite part of the ep)

If you got a question for me, I'll answer with both my brain and my heart, so shoot...As for the rest I'll comment on the new meisters vs. the old meisters and what I think Corner is up to in later posts...F-it I'll say it now^^...I think Corner is trying to destroy or reshape CB into his ideal image and this power struggle will commence in the eventual in-fighting between each group...Also atleast one of the Throne pilots will die freeing up a Gundam...So chew on that for now ^o^...

Spoiler for Weekly Gundam Power rankings:

1)Hallelujah (Still scares me $hitless)
2)Graham Acre (Hey that preview pushed him up a spot for me)
3)Ali Al Sarsas (WTF happened to him?)
4)Soma (Brooklyn DODGER)
5)Setsuna F. Say Yeah (Guuuuuundam!!)
6)Sergei Smirnov (Oldtype gets credit for just staying alive this ep)
7)Tieria (Patrick captured you man, I mean woman...)
8)Allelujah (Who turned off the lights?)
9)Lockon (Nuuumbaa 1 in the ranged pilot's poll)
10)Patrick (Whew...)
11)Darryl (Showed me something dodging those blood sprays^^)


Throne pilots shall be added next week if they show piloting skills...

I actually thought the flashback was a great way to give the audience perspective on what has gone down so far. Plus with a little extra footage thrown in made it worth the watch. Also, if you look and see how the recap was basically split between observers and the Throne pilots it made it seem like the Thrones have been watching the Meisters since day 1. The observers of course because well..........thats what they do. I dont consider it a true recap and it was necessary to move forward since I feel we have entered a new phase in the series.

Good breakdown Wingdarkness im hoping to get some detailed specs of the Thrones soon. Especially the range of Throne Eins Shoulder mounted Cannon the accuracy, range and rate of fire were just freakin sick.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by winter45

But im still not fond of recaps..... But this has to be THE BEST RECAP IVE EVER SEEN... Now if they make recap episodes with this style with other series....

You need to see Gurren Lagann's recap episode. That in my opinion is how a recap episode should be done, where as this time around i can't really call it a recap episode, seeing as though that was not it's intention in being one.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Graham is a Char, yes?

No.

[Itadakimasu!]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Good points there; I'll have to watch the sub myself to get it (it didn't come out in time for the weekend for me).

But I have just had the scariest thought of the season which will make you bleed.

Three facts, that's all I'll say.

Neena said that she doesn't like indecisive men, yes?

Graham is the most decisive man of the series so far, yes?

Graham is a Char, yes?

Haha sleeping with the enemy? Somehow I think the Trinity trio are a little more fanatical than we've seen so far... and besides, Michael would get jealous and bare his fangs :P

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

You need to see Gurren Lagann's recap episode. That in my opinion is how a recap episode should be done, where as this time around i can't really call it a recap episode, seeing as though that was not it's intention in being one.

True that. Gurren Lagann's clip show was recap and only recap, but made the first half of the show looking like the most epic thing you've ever seen.

The recap in this episode actually had storytelling purposes, giving a different perspective to what has already been shown, and thus actually advances the plot.

[Zeta Gundam]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I don't think that the 4 meisters have any idea of Fereshte either. I think its been stated that Fereshte secretly aids the meisters, without revealing their presence.

Wouldn't that contradict what has happened in the manga though?

In one of the recent manga chapters Fon was helping Lockon

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Zeta Gundam

Wouldn't that contradict what has happened in the manga though?

In one of the recent manga chapters Fon was helping Lockon

SECRETLY helping Lockon, through his Haro.

[U<3Anime]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

True that. Gurren Lagann's clip show was recap and only recap, but made the first half of the show looking like the most epic thing you've ever seen.

"TOUCH THE UNTOUCHABLE"

"BREAK THE UNBREAKABLE"

"ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWA!"

That is what made the recap good. =D

Anyway, like what most people have said already, this is actually a pretty good episode as recap. It actually advances the plot a bit, unlike some other garbage *cough* *GSD* *cough*. I'm looking forward for the interaction between the Trinity siblings and the meisters and how it's going to turn out.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

SECRETLY helping Lockon, through his Haro.

Geeze is there no end to what these Haros are capable of?

I wouldn't be surprised if Veda turns out to be some super haro.

[Cherudim Arche]

Haro attack!

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I wouldn't be surprised if Veda turns out to be some super haro.

Then we might as well change the title of the series to Haro is going to take over the universe, and there's nothing you can do about it okay.

[Zeta Gundam]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

SECRETLY helping Lockon, through his Haro.

Thanks for the correction.

Next time I'll read it myself.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Good points there; I'll have to watch the sub myself to get it (it didn't come out in time for the weekend for me).

But I have just had the scariest thought of the season which will make you bleed.

Three facts, that's all I'll say.

Neena said that she doesn't like indecisive men, yes?

Graham is the most decisive man of the series so far, yes?

Graham is a Char, yes?

People trying to make Graham into Char are futilely grasping at straws. While we do not know much about Graham yet, it seems he lives for the fight, rather than fighting for some greater ideology. To me, he seems like the quintessential American ace--he gets his greatest joy from taking on other aces and besting them in single combat, not throwing humanity to their doom or wiping out all war at the cost of a cataclysm.

While a lot of people would certainly like to liken Graham to Char or Zechs or Rau, he is not remotely one of the three.

Unlike Char, he is not a lolickon, nor does he have some sort of hidden agenda of vengeance (or we simply haven't seen it yet, which would be rather bad characterization on the part of the writers...you know, the rule that if a gun is hanging on the rack in act 1, it has to be fired in act 3, and if it's fired in act 3, it had to have been on the wall in act 1).

Unlike Zechs, he is not someone revered among his men as some sort of demigod (although I can't really blame Zechs's compatriots--he indeed *was* a demigod when you come to think of it)...in fact, Graham barely has any men to command, and he is nowhere near the top of the chain of command of the Union, whereas IIRC, Zechs was like Treize's right hand in OZ, and then later, was the spearhead of White Fang, and then the strongest preventer.

Unlike Rau, Graham, well, to put it bluntly, isn't evil, and once again, drawing the parallel to Char, has no overarching ideology.

The only parallel to one of the famous masked men is a long one--like Zechs, he is somewhat knightly in that he announces his presence and seeks to test his opponents in single combat when he has the opportunity.

Graham isn't Char, isn't Zechs, and isn't Rau--and let's not bring in other sad excuses for masked men into this (kyoji kasshu/schwarz bruder, or Mwu). Graham is so far, only Graham. Yes, he *is* badass and would probably completely clean house if he was put behind any gundam but the fatasaurus Virtue, except possibly against Hallelujah. For now, let Graham be Graham, and don't let the other amazing masked men take away from his badassery.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by DG86

People trying to make Graham into Char are futilely grasping at straws.

Just tell me you've seen MSG, Zeta, and CCA...Cause if you haven't then this face will appear: ...And yes all 3 works are required to understand Char (Even bits in ZZ that refer to him)...

To me, he seems like the quintessential American ace--he gets his greatest joy from taking on other aces and besting them in single combat, not throwing humanity to their doom or wiping out all war at the cost of a cataclysm.

I wouldn't dawg you out for saying that, but go back and watch early MSG when Char had a zest for fighting and challenging his opponents just to test his skills, and to analyze his opponents weaknesses (Despite his darker goals)...Now Zeta Char and subsequently CCA Char had evolved into something more (Who knows what Graham will evolve into)...So you can't quite compare him to the personality of a completed Char...

Let me tell you something about Graham Acre that doesn't need to be explained...If you've watched UC Gundam, and you've respected UC Gundam then it's easier than pie to see why people regard him in the class of a Char (Not that he's achieved the status, but he has that aura)...The reason he is my favorite character is because he's a clear throwback to the charismatic idealists from the UC era (With his fascination of the Gundams almost romantic)...I'll agree he's not Char (I mean nobody is Char--he sits on anime's MT. Rushmore as one of the most popular characters in Japanese history), but I totally understand why one would compare him to Char since he's by far the closest character when it comes to representing that essence...

Char is my alltime favorite Gundam character, so if I say Graham embodies some essence or aura of that character I think I can say that and feel good about it...I think it's easy to conclude the character was created as an ode to many romanticized characters in the UC era...And when you hear them refer to him as such, 9 times outta 10 I'd bet they are UC Gundam fans (Infact I know some of them are)...Dude is basically Glemy Toto's (ZZ) cooler older brother to me though^^...

[Demongod86]

For being one of the most popular characters in all of anime, Char sure got his shit kicked in by a murderous red vegetable.

As for Graham "evolving", this is new age gundam, WD. Characters must stand on their own within the 50-episode span and make their own identities there because there may not *be* a sequel. GW was probably the only non-UC gundam to spawn any sort of sequel until SEED, and I believe Zechs to be a major factor in that. SEED also spawned a sequel and Rau had no small part to attribute to that--hell, Rau himself even made several cameos in GSD (once in GSD 29, once in GSD 43 through Rey's voice and once in Ep 50).

In order to even have a chance to "evolve" in a second series, we have to see enough of Graham in the *first* series--and to me, it would be horrible writing if Graham suddenly got this whole character makeover out of nowhere. The only thing we have on him suddenly going ideological was Joshua's comment, but then Joshua went and got BOOM-HEADSHOTted--and for all we know, that other superior officer could have been just as retarded as Joshua!

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by DG86

For being one of the most popular characters in all of anime, Char sure got his shit kicked in by a murderous red vegetable.

Go do a wiki on Char and learn something...I bet your page will load 3 times faster!! ^^ (The Char-lovers will get that)...Additionally if you add up the Newtype fan votes of Quattro Bageena (Char's alias in Zeta) and Char Aznable he even blows your favorite Killer Tomato outta the the aimbot garden...

As for Graham "evolving", this is new age gundam, WD. Characters must stand on their own within the 50-episode span and make their own identities there because there may not *be* a sequel. GW was probably the only non-UC gundam to spawn any sort of sequel until SEED, and I believe Zechs to be a major factor in that. SEED also spawned a sequel and Rau had no small part to attribute to that--hell, Rau himself even made several cameos in GSD (once in GSD 29, once in GSD 43 through Rey's voice and once in Ep 50).

In order to even have a chance to "evolve" in a second series, we have to see enough of Graham in the *first* series--and to me, it would be horrible writing if Graham suddenly got this whole character makeover out of nowhere. The only thing we have on him suddenly going ideological was Joshua's comment, but then Joshua went and got BOOM-HEADSHOTted--and for all we know, that other superior officer could have been just as retarded as Joshua!

My only point here is that you compared the exploits of Graham to Char as a FINISHED character...You just can't do that...Graham can be like Char in many ways that don't even touch Zeta or CCA Char, but not visa versa...

As for the rest, again, either you feel it or you don't...People aren't pulling this comparison outta their a$$ess...You've already missed the subtle and not-so-subtle idealistic valor he has shown this entire series?? You think him going idealistic would only be based on Joshua's comments? I've seen this from him all the way from episode one...When he sat in the crowd contemplating how he was gonna be apart of this new development...From his first words to Exia when he engaged him as if history shouted his name...You see? You just don't see it...If you had basked in the glory of UC Gundam it would be quite easy to see (and that's the disconnect in this debate)...His obsession with the Gundams can easily spawn itself into something more (Guin Lineford, Char Aznable, Glemy Toto among others in the UC that have taught us this)...Graham has a romantic obsession with the Gundams, with the technology of the Gundams, with his own pride in fighting the Gundams...With his access as captain of the UNION's ANTI-GUNDAM FORCE (Via the scientist and Billy), I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he has the potential to go overboard to get his interpretation of an epic battle with one of them (Which is very idealistic)....

[winter45]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Go do a wiki on Char and learn something...I bet your page will load 3 times faster!! ^^ (The Char-lovers will get that)...Additionally if you add up the Newtype fan votes of Quattro Bageena (Char's alias in Zeta) and Char Aznable he even blows your favorite Killer Tomato outta the the aimbot garden...

So true.. but unfortuantly not many CE fans wouldnt believe this.. Be warned WD some rabid CE fanboys may burn crosses at your front door....

Its funny to say but UC bashers at least knows of the infamous Red comet Char, but alot of old timers have no idea who the hell kira is..