Rewrite & Harvest Festa

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

This really isn't a good example, but here.
The fight at the end of Lucia's route reads pretty much exactly like his typical fight scenes... that said, I was expecting something like it so I wasn't that surprised by it.
No offense, but your negative impression of the fight scenes seems to be mostly be a result of your difficulty with the language...

No, I rather like most of the fight scenes. I read Lucia's fight scene last night in English, there weren't any surprises so that was good, and it was just as cheezy as I remembered it. Going through comments on Visual Arts homepage, I know a lot of Japanese fans loved Lucia's dere side but thought the part afterwards was "torture".

A lot of others in this thread said they don't like the style Tanaka wrote in Akane's route. I don't know if you're a UFC/MMA fan, but a lot of those fights were like reading really really long play-by-plays and the way I remember some of the opponents in the route, it's like some of them sounded like typical dumb brutes, I just couldn't get myself interested in opponents like that. From what I can tell I remember most of the route correctly. But way too many people like Akane which tells me I should have at least found some entertainment in the route. So I'm excited to read it in English and see it from your perspectives rather than my admittedly crappy Japanese (Which is a two-sided sword, of VNs I read in both Japanese and English with fight scenes there's only Fate Stay Night, which I infinitely preferred reading in Japanese. I thought Lucia's fight scene was more bareable since I've read it so many times and now in English I can just scroll through though.).

Spoiler for Akane:

It's not like I hated every second of every fight in the route, I really enjoyed the scene where Koutaro escorts Akane in the forest to look for Kagarin, but when that one guy whose voice sounds like a complete retard starts speaking I just cannot take the rest of that scene seriously anymore.

[Kirayuki]

I actually loved all the angst/drama/emo part of Lucia's route, otherwise I would mistook it as some high-quality moege

Battle wise I found it to be sufficient enough in her route, Akane's route is more awesome in this regard (though I can see why some people found it to be dragged on at times). I found the battle narration itself is still fine and easy to get into without being overly descriptive, compared to some battle-heavy VNs out there (for example, Dies Irae, Fate Stay/Night)

[Reckoner]

Well finished Rewrite...

Spoiler for terra:

Seriously, this has got to the most disappointing true route I have ever read. Kagari did not deserve to be the main heroine.

Thankfully I really loved Akane's and Lucia's routes. Easily the best of the VN imo.

Forgive me for not explaining myself, but I'm tired and wanted to vent . I'll explain in depth later.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Well finished Rewrite...

Spoiler for terra:

Seriously, this has got to the most disappointing true route I have ever read. Kagari did not deserve to be the main heroine.

Thankfully I really loved Akane's and Lucia's routes. Easily the best of the VN imo.

Forgive me for not explaining myself, but I'm tired and wanted to vent . I'll explain in depth later.

Spoiler for All routes:

I really liked Kagari as the heroine in Moon...but as for Terra, the "True Route" having her as the heroine is kinda...meh for me too. Like I said before, it would have been much better had Kotarou not been magically in love with her for most of Terra and was simply doing everything to save humanity.

In Moon his relationship with Kagari felt quite good and natural...in Terra it just felt forced. True, Kotarou was older than the other heroines in Terra, but a heroine wasn't really necessary in the first place.

Then again I was never into Kagari in the first place.
Though to be honest, what interactions did we even have with Kagari pre-Moon? A few scenes in the Common Route of her being Kotarou's night stalker, a couple of scenes of her wondering around and being super creepy in Kotori's route, barely any interactions with an intelligent version of her in Shizuru and Chihaya's routes, she was unconscious/dead for most of Akane's route and she didn't even show up in Lucia's route. It was only in Moon that we got any decent interactions with her and even then she's not even the same Kagari as the one in Terra!

[Aspirety]

It's both reassuring and sad to see most people share my problems with Terra.
I don't like disappointing endings like this though, so I've found a way to make peace with it.

Spoiler for Endgame:

First, instead of thinking of Kotarou's happiness, see it as a necessary sacrifice to save the world. What Kotarou desired was to do something meaningful with his life, with his relationship with Kagari as the catalyst for that to happen. Surely he gained some fulfilment out of that in the end. And well, he did get to be with Kagari in the end. Second, I think it's better to avoid thinking of Terra as the 'true end'. If anything is the true end, it's Moon. It brings together everything from the past routes and finds a path to a resolution for the greater conflict (the world's inevitable destruction). The common, heroine and moon routes are the main story, Terra is more of a spinoff. A necessary spinoff, but I can rest easier without treating it as the main ending.

I'm just trying to find my half full glass here. The story is as good or bad as you perceive it, but I'd at least like to find peace with it. Rewrite was an amazing story, I can't let my problems with Terra stop myself from loving it. Just trying to find a way of looking at it that enables me to love it properly.

haha, sorry for rambling.

[Von Himmel]

I feel that thinking like this feels more appropriate
Moon route -> Kotarou story end
Terra route -> World story end
By 'world end' I meant that it's an ending or a solution to each of the world's problem. It doesn't necessarily means it's a story about Kotarou again but more about the world itself. Kotarou just happen to have a big parts in it to give the world a happy ending.

[Dirty_Harry]

I don't understand why Terra isn't fit as a true ending (more than Refrain and After Story, imho). Maybe it's just me. For me Rewrite doesn't have a main heroine, despite the importance of Kagari for the plot. Moon and Terra are all about Kotarou.

I think the problem that many have with Terra Route are "moral" and narrative biases of how a true ending must be. Fortunately Tanaka doesn't follow the easy route.

[Kirayuki]

I agree that Terra is somewhat disappointing (mostly about somehow rushed part in the end, could probably use some more development in some parts), but I thought the conclusion itself is pretty good and didn't rely on deus-ex-machina to solve most if not all of the existing problems.

The true end in Terra is definitely not something that give high emotional satisfaction like Refrain and After Story did to me, but it certainly was something that Romeo had been aiming to do with hints spread in various places. And with that clear goal in mind, I thought it fit pretty well as a True End to the Rewrite's story and in a sense the true Salvation for all of the previous girls.

My greatest problem with Terra is probably Kagari lacking development in Terra, especially in romance department (ignoring the other rushed parts for now).

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

My greatest problem with Terra is probably Kagari lacking development in Terra, especially in romance department (ignoring the other rushed parts for now).

Spoiler for Terra:

Like the fight with the Earth Dragon and how Kashima and co were dead on arrival...so anticlimactic D:

[Aspirety]

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

I feel that thinking like this feels more appropriate
Moon route -> Kotarou story end
Terra route -> World story end
By 'world end' I meant that it's an ending or a solution to each of the world's problem. It doesn't necessarily means it's a story about Kotarou again but more about the world itself. Kotarou just happen to have a big parts in it to give the world a happy ending.

That works too. It wasn't a bad ending by any means, just, I guess it betrayed my expectations?

[Dirty_Harry]

And I don't agree that the Terra in the end is rushed. The plot itself puts a time limit for salvation. Spend more time at the end besides not make sense in the narrative, I don't know what that would be relevant to the story itself. Kagari lacking development is not an issue, as I said before, it's more about Kotarou than Kagari (I don't consider her the main heroine, as many think).

And not having romance in Terra is a blessing.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Dirty_Harry

And not having romance in Terra is a blessing.

Spoiler for Terra:

Could have used with even less romance than what it had actually. It all honestly made me feel like Romeo had a plan for KagariXKotarou in Terra...but left it hanging halfway through until the very end where he kills her.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Dirty_Harry

And I don't agree that the Terra in the end is rushed. The plot itself puts a time limit for salvation. Spend more time at the end besides not make sense in the narrative, I don't know what that would be relevant to the story itself.

Even with putting the time limit, I didn't feel any sense of urgency at all. These rushed parts had more to do with how the writing (narration+dialogue) progressed nearing the end. Could probably used a little bit of padding in the writing department, it felt like things are over before you expect it.

For example, as previous poster have posted, the battle with Earth Dragon. It really didn't hinder the plot itself, but really took out some of my enjoyment. It seems like there were some parts that got cut out or something. It would be probably more better if they somehow used similar pace like what Romeo did in Akane's route.

Did not change my good impression regarding the ending, but as a route I would probably prefer Akane or Lucia.

Kagari lacking development is not an issue, as I said before, it's more about Kotarou than Kagari (I don't consider her the main heroine, as many think).

And not having romance in Terra is a blessing.

Probably not an issue in the whole story itself, but this certainly show how Kagari is somehow used just for plot device. Just because this is more about Kotarou, doesn't mean she should get the shaft in development. Hard to care for a character like that, and this made the conclusion lack an emotional punch. I don't really care whether she is a main heroine or not, but regardless she is the heroine in that route and part of the whole ordeal in how the ending came to.

I could probably get away without any romance at all. but after what the writer did to add a little bit of this....I could only call that as "half-baked".

[Aspirety]

Agreed. I really got into Moon-Kagari, but with Terra-Kagari she felt more like a plot device than anything. There was a point, when she started displaying emotions, that I felt like I was starting to finally appreciate her as a character (that was a really powerful scene). But after that point her persona just sorta... dies, right until the final scene. Their relationship never develops beyond some kind of necessity to save the world, and that feels shallow compared to all the other relationships. It could've been handled better imo, like they were going in one direction then took away her identity before we could get any development.

[Tyabann]

Thing is that while I think most people agree that it should have been longer, Romeo wanted to cut Terra down by about half, so...
He refers to Kagari as a "dummy heroine", too. I get the impression that he doesn't consider her to be much of a romantic option, which is... disappointing.
Explains stuff I've heard about her fandisc route though.

[Dirty_Harry]

Probably not an issue in the whole story itself, but this certainly show how Kagari is somehow used just for plot device. Just because this is more about Kotarou, doesn't mean she should get the shaft in development. Hard to care for a character like that, and this made the conclusion lack an emotional punch. I don't really care whether she is a main heroine or not, but regardless she is the heroine in that route and part of the whole ordeal in how the ending came to.

I could probably get away without any romance at all. but after what the writer did to add a little bit of this....I could only call that as "half-baked".

The interview with the creators says, this is what she is: a plot device. And the ending was not designed to have an emotional impact, but resolve the plot.

Kagari is not the main heroine, she is not even a heroine. So her development is unnecessary, by assumption.

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Thing is that while I think most people agree that it should have been longer, Romeo wanted to cut Terra down by about half, so...
He refers to Kagari as a "dummy heroine", too. I get the impression that he doesn't consider her to be much of a romantic option, which is... disappointing.
Explains stuff I've heard about her fandisc route though.

Oh it's not necessarily have to be longer. If the things he wanted to cut was some parts in the beginning and middle, I can live that. As it is now, the differences can be a bit jarring. It's not the overall length of the route that bugged me.

And yes, the fandisk basically confirmed that. If anything, Kagari is more like an "accomplice in a a greater mission".

Originally Posted by Dirty_Harry

The interview with the creators says, this is what she is: a plot device. And the ending was not designed to have an emotional impact, but resolve the plot.

Kagari is not the main heroine, she is not even a heroine. So her development is unnecessary, by assumption.

But Romeo did add a little bit of things that can be interpreted as romance development, which is why I said "half-baked". Might as well completely remove it, otherwise this can mislead some people.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Dirty_Harry

And the ending was not designed to have an emotional impact, but resolve the plot.

I'm sorry, but I just don't like that idea.

Spoiler for Terra:

If you're going to have an important character die, and, for that matter, have the protagonist be the one to do it, that needs to have strong emotional impact.
Even Esaka's death did. Kagari's wasn't near as powerful because her and Kotarou's relationship was simply not given enough attention for that scene to matter quite as much as it could have.

Part of that is presentation, though. That enormously-spoilerific MAD that was linked a few pages back presents that scene with far more gravity and impact than the game itself does.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Oh it's not necessarily have to be longer. If the things he wanted to cut was some parts in the beginning and middle, I can live that. As it is now, the differences can be a bit jarring. It's not the overall length of the route that bugged me.

Well, I kind of felt that a lot of stuff in the beginning and middle could have been expanded upon... Kotarou just narrates about stuff that he does and that happened to him that we could have been shown instead, and a lot of the ideas Terra throws out aren't really well-developed.
And then there's how rushed the buildup to the ending feels... so I really don't see what Romeo could have cut without making the route's problems even more pronounced.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

But Romeo did add a little bit of things that can be interpreted as romance development.

More like "actually are romance development" than "could be interpreted as", I'd think.
If she was never supposed to be seen as a heroine he should have cut those kind of scenes, yeah, but even then I question why her fandisc route wasn't just fluff content instead of what I'm told is actually is...
Maybe I'll be less upset when I play it, I don't know. It just pisses me off to see one of my favorite characters get this kind of half-baked treatment, as you put it.

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

I actually loved all the angst/drama/emo part of Lucia's route, otherwise I would mistook it as some high-quality moege

Battle wise I found it to be sufficient enough in her route, Akane's route is more awesome in this regard (though I can see why some people found it to be dragged on at times). I found the battle narration itself is still fine and easy to get into without being overly descriptive, compared to some battle-heavy VNs out there (for example, Dies Irae, Fate Stay/Night)

Spoiler for Lucia's route:

My whole spiel is that it just doesn't make any sense from Lucia's point of view for her actions at the end. Since the story hinges on her actions at that point, I found the rest of the route was just, soiled.

Don't believe me that Lucia's action didn't make sense? Let's talk about her motives:

- Wants meaning in her life
- Wants to help save humanity no matter what, including sacrificing 200k lives because it's meaningful, because it's an order.
- Doesn't want to go back because Kotarou might pity her
- Doesn't want to go back because she wants to suicide or live on and destroy the entire world
- Wants to die or live at that moment and wants Kotarou to choose for her
- Is in love with Kotarou
- Wants to kill Kotarou to force his hand

As you can see there are a lot of conflicting motives. She wants to die, she wants to live, she wants to save the world, she wants to destroy it, she wants Kotarou to love her, she wants to kill Kotarou, uhh... How the whole thing escalates is just funny. Let's try to look at some of the reasons individually. If she wants Kotarou to choose her path for her, shouldn't she go with them at the start? Why would she kill him? She's afraid of being pitied, so going psycho and trying to murder everyone ensures that she isn't being pitied? Well maybe you might say she's tortured, so she just wants to kill everything at that point? But she still tries to reason with them and argue that Kotarou doesn't really want to be with her, which is the reason why she doesn't want to go back. And counter all this with the fact Kotarou told her directly that he confessed her love to her and made it very clear it wasn't out of pity, so she's going crazy because she's just forgotten? It's almost like she wants to kill him because she forgot about the confession, but then why is she choosing to go back to Kazamo? She remembers that date clearly. I guess you could chalk it all up to the emotional trauma of having killed 200,000 people, but then if we're going to chalk it all up to psychosis, and not build on her character anymore than what's the point? That's why I'm chalking it all up to them wanting to get a scene of violent gratuity in end. Any other argument is to reaffirm their love from Kotarou's side. But that's sad, because Lucia is willing to kill him now, not just at the end when she's psycho but also in the field when Itsuwaranai kimi he plays, she leaves him for dead.

That whole scenario at the end has so many contradictions, which is why I think it was poorly hashed and just done so an action scene could be put in the route. If Ryukishi07 did it on his own, then I think the ending was just poorly done.

Spoiler for Lucia's route in Harvest Festa:

I thought it was a total cop out for Ryukishi07 to ignore all the baggage at the end of Lucia's original route. Yet he still wants to take parts of the route and starts right in the middle of it. I found that funny. He also goes as far as bringing closure on Brenda. I found it really underwhelming to get closure in an if route that didn't follow the original's most questionable parts.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, I kind of felt that a lot of stuff in the beginning and middle could have been expanded upon... Kotarou just narrates about stuff that he does and that happened to him that we could have been shown instead, and a lot of the ideas Terra throws out aren't really well-developed.
And then there's how rushed the buildup to the ending feels... so I really don't see what Romeo could have cut without making the route's problems even more pronounced.

Spoiler for terra:

This is something I agree with wholeheartedly, I was so into Kotarou's background in Terra, his story before meeting Kagari the second time. I really wish it was expanded a bit, I wanted to see more about his time before being recruited by Esaka, I wanted to know more about his time as a trainee, I wanted more interactions and deepening of relationship with Imamiya and Touka through the route...hell I wanted more freaking Luis and more of his time in the foreign country. Especially Jasmine, I wanted a lot more since they actually seemed more like a family than his actual family.