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Old 2011-10-03, 22:29   Link #1361
Panzerklein
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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
As there going right now in freezing there gonna lose against the nova they just do not have the sufficient numbers to battle them. tell me what happens if they decide to attack en masse do you think a few pandoras can handle legions of novas
Similiar in Strike Witches when Allied running low supply for Witches, they choice use Neuroi tech and create Warlock to defeat Neuroi, that work good at beginning, but went berserk, turn to true Neuroi and attack Allied fleet, thus it is more costly to defeat that human-made Neuroi :-".

So, can you tell me what happen if those E-pandoras go berserk and turn to nova at middle of battle, do you think a few pandoras can handle legions of novas and berserk pandoras?
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Old 2011-10-03, 22:52   Link #1362
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by Panzerklein View Post
Similiar in Strike Witches when Allied running low supply for Witches, they choice use Neuroi tech and create Warlock to defeat Neuroi, that work good at beginning, but went berserk, turn to true Neuroi and attack Allied fleet, thus it is more costly to defeat that human-made Neuroi :-".

So, can you tell me what happen if those E-pandoras go berserk and turn to nova at middle of battle, do you think a few pandoras can handle legions of novas and berserk pandoras?
Well, if the author wants to write it that way, then of course it'd seem that Dr. Aoi is correct. But in real life, if we followed Dr. Aoi's way of thinking, we'd still be stuck in the middle ages.

Anyways, it's not like they have much of a choice. The Novas are increasing their rate of attack and attack strength, and if they don't do something soon, they'll be wiped out in a few more assaults.
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:06   Link #1363
Yorae_paladin1
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Well, if the author wants to write it that way, then of course it'd seem that Dr. Aoi is correct. But in real life, if we followed Dr. Aoi's way of thinking, we'd still be stuck in the middle ages.

Anyways, it's not like they have much of a choice. The Novas are increasing their rate of attack and attack strength, and if they don't do something soon, they'll be wiped out in a few more assaults.

Exactly the novas are starting to stop being nice and soon the pandora girls will overwhelmed
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:08   Link #1364
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So you mean, you refer Banzai-type attack with human-wave assault than small but arms from teeth-to-toe force?

So, tell me, if you follow Oohara's way, and what will you do when E-pandoras turn to hostile? Who will clear them out and with how cost of it? Instead you create reinforcement pandoras, but just increase number of Novas, more heavy duty for true pandoras

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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
Exactly the novas are starting to stop being nice and soon the pandora girls will overwhelmed
Exactly, with E-pandora project, pandora girls will be more outnumber.
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:11   Link #1365
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Originally Posted by Panzerklein View Post
So you mean, you refer Banzai-type attack with human-wave assault than small but arms from teeth-to-toe force?

So, tell me, if you follow Oohara's way, and what will you do when E-pandoras turn to hostile? Who will clear them out and with how cost of it? Instead you create reinforcement pandoras, but just increase number of Novas, more heavy duty for true pandoras



Exactly, with E-pandora project, pandora girls will be more outnumber.
well guess its a lose lose situation cause aois way isn't working
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:15   Link #1366
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well guess its a lose lose situation cause aois way isn't working
Otherwise, Oohara's way just put the end to humanity. Remember what happen when Skynet turn against humanity in Terminators, or Calculator and it's robot Legion in Fallout Tactics, or Warlock in Strike Witches?
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:16   Link #1367
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The conversation is getting muddled here. Gengo may be right about this specific project, but the reasoning he used to arrive at his conclusion was silly, something you'd expect more from some uneducated hick than a leading researcher. Notice he doesn't say anything about potential problems, he just flies off the handle like a man-child.

A productive response and one befitting a scientist would be: "Here is why this won't work/shouldn't be attempted, reason x, reason y, reason z."

Oohara's project is fine. It just should have been headed transparently and by someone who knows when enough is enough. That's how science works. If you don't get the results you predicted, examine why and figure out what needs to be changed. We didn't give up flight when the Hindenburg blew up...
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:18   Link #1368
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by Panzerklein View Post
So you mean, you refer Banzai-type attack with human-wave assault than small but arms from teeth-to-toe force?

So, tell me, if you follow Oohara's way, and what will you do when E-pandoras turn to hostile? Who will clear them out and with how cost of it? Instead you create reinforcement pandoras, but just increase number of Novas, more heavy duty for true pandoras
E-Pandoras have shown not to work out well SO FAR. That doesn't mean they can't work out in the future. If all our scientists gave up at the first sign of failure, then we wouldn't have any advancement at all.

They're already screwed as it is with the ways things are. Even if the author decides to write that the E-pandora project will never work out, it doesn't change the fact that at this point in the story, based on what the characters know, the E-pandora project is pretty much their only way out.

Also, look at how easily the last wave of Novas changed all their normal Pandoras into Novas anyways. Not to mention even without the Nova the Pandoras can go over their limit and change too.

There's also the fact that with the limited amount of Pandoras they have, they can only protect a few locations (ie, the areas where their academies are located). That means the rest of the world is pretty much an open target for Nova attacks.
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:20   Link #1369
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Originally Posted by Panzerklein View Post
Otherwise, Oohara's way just put the end to humanity. Remember what happen when Skynet turn against humanity in Terminators, or Calculator and it's robot Legion in Fallout Tactics, or Warlock in Strike Witches?
Aois way is only buying time and its running out
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:26   Link #1370
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by Panzerklein View Post
Otherwise, Oohara's way just put the end to humanity. Remember what happen when Skynet turn against humanity in Terminators, or Calculator and it's robot Legion in Fallout Tactics, or Warlock in Strike Witches?
For every story that's anti-science you could probably find an equivalent story that's pro-science, ie Star Trek, Mass Effect, etc.
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:36   Link #1371
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
E-Pandoras have shown not to work out well SO FAR. That doesn't mean they can't work out in the future. If all our scientists gave up at the first sign of failure, then we wouldn't have any advancement at all.

They're already screwed as it is with the ways things are. Even if the author decides to write that the E-pandora project will never work out, it doesn't change the fact that at this point in the story, based on what the characters know, the E-pandora project is pretty much their only way out.

Also, look at how easily the last wave of Novas changed all their normal Pandoras into Novas anyways. Not to mention even without the Nova the Pandoras can go over their limit and change too.

There's also the fact that with the limited amount of Pandoras they have, they can only protect a few locations (ie, the areas where their academies are located). That means the rest of the world is pretty much an open target for Nova attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
Aois way is only buying time and its running out
Do you want the humanity end slow or fast?

Talking about science, a project cost a lot of time to research, analyze, testing, it can take tens of year, but the sponsors of E-pandoras can't wait and they need result as soon as. To meet dead line, Oohara must rush and "rushing" in science only make failure and failure. Want more time? But who will give her money for long time they can wait?

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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
For every story that's anti-science you could probably find an equivalent story that's pro-science, ie Star Trek, Mass Effect, etc.
In Mass Effect, Quarian make Geth for their labor force, but the Geth rise up and kick all Quarian ass out of their homeworld. In Star Wars, The Republic lack of soldiers and they agree Clone project, and what happen!? The clone turn to attack and destroy the Republic :-".

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Originally Posted by hoarfrost View Post

Oohara's project is fine. It just should have been headed transparently and by someone who knows when enough is enough. That's how science works. If you don't get the results you predicted, examine why and figure out what needs to be changed. We didn't give up flight when the Hindenburg blew up...
But they will need a lot of time to do that, but you can see E-pandors was public on many medias to find more sponsor, it's mean need rush hard to have result for media, but that against the way of science.
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Last edited by Panzerklein; 2011-10-03 at 23:48.
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:49   Link #1372
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technically the republic didn't agree to that that was a secret project done by a jedi master only when palps got emergency powers well that when the clones came into effect
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Old 2011-10-03, 23:57   Link #1373
Xion Valkyrie
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Originally Posted by Panzerklein View Post
Do you want the humanity end slow or fast?
Without the E-pandoras or something other Deus Ex Machina, humanity is probably going to end within the next couple of Nova invasions. Why do you think they've given the E-pandora project a go-ahead after all this time. The Novas moved up the time table and the people in charge realizes that they're screwed if they don't do something about it.

Quote:

Talking about science, a project cost a lot of time to research, analyze, testing, it can take tens of year, but the sponsors of E-pandoras can't wait and they need result as soon as. To meet dead line, Oohara must rush and "rushing" in science only make failure and failure. Want more time? But who will give her money for long time they can wait?
Rushing the Mark IV trial is a completely separate issue. The fact that the upper management screwed it doesn't change the fact that the E-Pandora project is a promising solution to their problem. Even the Pandoras themselves were surprised that normal humans were even capable of peforming to this level. Had Oohara gotten as much funding and control as Dr Aoi had, there would be a good chance that the whole project would be successful.

Quote:

In Mass Effect, Quarian make Geth for their labor force, but the Geth rise up and kick all Quarian ass out of their homeworld. In Star Wars, The Republic lack of soldiers and they agree Clone project, and what happen!? The clone turn to attack and destroy the Republic :-".
The Quarians were enslaving a sentient race and then tried to exterminate them, they deserved what happened to them. The clone soldiers overthrew the republic because they were programmed to by Sidius. Had that programming not been there they would not have destroyed the Republic. Technology is a tool, whether or not you use it correctly is an entirely different issue.

Anyways, for Mass Effect, if the Protheans didn't try to alter the Reaper technology to stop the Citadel Gate from opening remotely, then the Reapers would have consumed everything before ME1 even began.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:02   Link #1374
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And the Clone is very effect to kick out Republic and that Clone project start in many years for a soldier from the child to adult and go to battlefield :-". Then, many secret project start in shadow with a lot of money and in long time. While, E-pandoras is public on medias with rushing result due it's lack of money and time, a project like that only have 1 result: failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Without the E-pandoras or something other Deus Ex Machina, humanity is probably going to end within the next couple of Nova invasions. Why do you think they've given the E-pandora project a go-ahead after all this time. The Novas moved up the time table and the people in charge realizes that they're screwed if they don't do something about it.
If that is fate of humanity, nothing can stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Rushing the Mark IV trial is a completely separate issue. The fact that the upper management screwed it doesn't change the fact that the E-Pandora project is a promising solution to their problem. Even the Pandoras themselves were surprised that normal humans were even capable of peforming to this level. Had Oohara gotten as much funding and control as Dr Aoi had, there would be a good chance that the whole project would be successful.
If something happen and was leak to media like E-pandoras gone berserk easily, or rebel will make not only E-pandora project is doom, but also entire Pandoras's image is gone. And in mock battle, to keep up normal Pandora, E-pandora at the border of nova-form, and without limiter on battlefield, they will just go berserk and turn to nova.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
The Quarians were enslaving a sentient race and then tried to exterminate them, they deserved what happened to them. The clone soldiers overthrew the republic because they were programmed to by Sidius. Had that programming not been there they would not have destroyed the Republic. Technology is a tool, whether or not you use it correctly is an entirely different issue.
They not change the fact, all of them are double-edge, and it can rise against the user.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:08   Link #1375
Xion Valkyrie
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Actually, a public project like that is not doomed to failure.

Look at the Large Halidron Collider. It was a very public project with a LOT of vocal opposition (end of the world black holes, etc). It also had a rushed time table that resulted in an early failed test that took another year to fix.

However, it's up and running now and it's doing very good work.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:22   Link #1376
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Actually, a public project like that is not doomed to failure.

Look at the Large Halidron Collider. It was a very public project with a LOT of vocal opposition (end of the world black holes, etc). It also had a rushed time table that resulted in an early failed test that took another year to fix.

However, it's up and running now and it's doing very good work.
LHC's failure is not effect on the world and not test on living human.

While E-pandoras work on human, if it fail and was public on media, the project is doom due noone want sponsor for that project.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:28   Link #1377
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LHC's failure is not effect on the world and not test on living human.
And we don't know how the E-Pandora project will turn out at this point of the story yet either. They could very well learn from this mistake and decide to continue with greater precautions.

The Pandora project itself is already human experimentation on a massive scale. Who knows how many girls died while they tried to figure out how to activate their powers, or how to get the stigmas transplanted.
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Old 2011-10-04, 00:30   Link #1378
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And we don't know how the E-Pandora project will turn out at this point of the story yet either. They could very well learn from this mistake and decide to continue with greater precautions.

The Pandora project itself is already human experimentation on a massive scale. Who knows how many girls died while they tried to figure out how to activate their powers, or how to get the stigmas transplanted.
Spoiler for :
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Old 2011-10-04, 01:49   Link #1379
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Wow, looks like I missed out majorly.

Anyway, I'm siding with Dr. Aoi on this issue. When humanity strives to acquire more power than it can effectively control, disaster always follows. Though I don't agree with him likening Maria to God, I do agree with his statement about the insatiable desire of man. In Castlevania, said desire constantly revives the series' villain, Count Dracula. In Freezing, Dr. Aoi proclaims mankind's desire called forth the Nova. And he might be more right than we know. I myself can't wait to find out the whole truth.

And in other news, ch 59 just came out on For The Halibut, which can be found here: http://fth-scans.com/2011/10/03/no-pain-no-gain/ Chilling title, yet also quite appropriate. Read and enjoy.

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Old 2011-10-04, 09:10   Link #1380
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