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Old 2013-06-14, 16:16   Link #3581
seangel92
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
How does knowing the major elements of the story already mean I have no room to discuss? Sorry but just because I don't know a detail in a 392 page translation shouldn't make me unable to participate and I've been pretty respectful of other peoples opinions. Because I interpret the story differently doesn't make me wrong, as well as not know every minute detail does not make me wrong. I simple asked whether the ceremony was a secret to everyone but Kirino and Kyousuke, instead you choose to berate me because you don't like what I have to say. If you don't like it then don't respond if I say something that is factually inaccurate that is fine correct me but most of the responses I've gotten from you tends to be your own conjecture about events and not a factual correction.
The autor said that he wanted to give the best happy ending to Kirino and he did it but the rest is just for our imagination (how they gonna fight in secret with their love). He gave to Kirino that she wanted (Kyosuke love)
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:32   Link #3582
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
How does knowing the major elements of the story already mean I have no room to discuss? Sorry but just because I don't know a detail in a 392 page translation shouldn't make me unable to participate and I've been pretty respectful of other peoples opinions. Because I interpret the story differently doesn't make me wrong, as well as not know every minute detail does not make me wrong. I simple asked whether the ceremony was a secret to everyone but Kirino and Kyousuke, instead you choose to berate me because you don't like what I have to say. If you don't like it then don't respond if I say something that is factually inaccurate that is fine correct me but most of the responses I've gotten from you tends to be your own conjecture about events and not a factual correction.
You can interpret it the way you want,but I think you have something to do with moral issues which makes you not accept the ending although its CLEAR now,we have enough evidence throughout the Volumes to support it and there is no going back. Moral issues are hindering you from accepting the ending.
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:36   Link #3583
s0beit
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
You've said many times we have to wait for the full translations to be sure about things.

Didn't even bother answering the question either
Pretty sure he can read Japanese, though...
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:37   Link #3584
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
You can interpret it the way you want,but I think you have something to do with moral issues which makes you not accept the ending although its CLEAR now,we have enough evidence throughout the Volumes to support it and there is no going back. Moral issues are hindering you from accepting the ending.
Evidence is subject to interpretation, besides what ending is clear? That they love each other? I've not disagreed with that for a while once the quick translations came out. Where they go after the epilogue will never be clear but everyone will point to evidence that supports their thoughts about where it ultimately leads.
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:41   Link #3585
Densetsuhakai
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
You can interpret it the way you want,but I think you have something to do with moral issues which makes you not accept the ending although its CLEAR now,we have enough evidence throughout the Volumes to support it and there is no going back. Moral issues are hindering you from accepting the ending.
Lol Sorry but that's bullshit.It's no way that it is clear now.It would be clear if we had a definite ending, but this isn't the case.What we got is a open end.And so long as only one evidence is out there that is against the theory that Kyousuke and Kirino will be together forever, it is his right to interpret the story the way he does see it.Don't understand me wrong.I think ,too, that they will be together as lovers forever,but we don't have definite evidence either (because of the open end).
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:43   Link #3586
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
Evidence is subject to interpretation, besides what ending is clear? That they love each other? I've not disagreed with that for a while once the quick translations came out. Where they go after the epilogue will never be clear but everyone will point to evidence that supports their thoughts about where it ultimately leads.
Author planned this ''hidden incest story plot'' from Volume 1,and he also said he wanted to give Kirino her 'happy ending',what makes her happy??? To be with her brother forever and this whole story started by 'life counseling' and its a secret between them. I think debating about this issue is useless,knowing what the final Volume has to say from evidence. I rest this case closed.

Edit: I dont think we need scenes just like YnS to confirm it,this novel isnt for adults,he admitted it was tricky so this ending he gave us was his best so he can face no problems from the law. Everyone can interpret it as he wishes but I cant see it in any other way.
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:48   Link #3587
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Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
I simple asked whether the ceremony was a secret to everyone but Kirino and Kyousuke, instead you choose to berate me because you don't like what I have to say.
No, because I guessed by the context of the conversation where this was going, and I was dreading it since it's a reprise of what has been going on for days with you all over the Internet. But here you go anyway...

The marriage ceremony was only the two of them.
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:52   Link #3588
seangel92
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
Lol Sorry but that's bullshit.It's no way that it is clear now.It would be clear if we had a definite ending, but this isn't the case.What we got is a open end.And so long as only one evidence is out there that is against the theory that Kyousuke and Kirino will be together forever, it is his right to interpret the story the way he does see it.Don't understand me wrong.I think ,too, that they will be together as lovers forever,but we don't have definite evidence either (because of the open end).
The autor said that Oreimo is like a galge and Kirino is the winner and she has the best happy ending that he could give to her. Kirino wants to stay in love with Kyosuke forever but she dither with the break up (Ruin his study, finding work, sociaty against them). For me is clear, if the autor had wanted a "normal siblings", he wouldn't have put a second kiss and the "follow me".
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Old 2013-06-14, 16:58   Link #3589
Kakurin-san
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Part 3 Final Chapter

Spoiler for Part 3 Final Chapter:
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:02   Link #3590
Densetsuhakai
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Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
The autor said that Oreimo is like a galge and Kirino is the winner and she has the best happy ending that he could give to her. Kirino wants to stay in love with Kyosuke forever but she dither with the break up (Ruin his study, finding work, sociaty against them). For me is clear, if the autor has wanted a "normal siblings", he wouldn't put a second kiss and the "follow me".
Yeah,I have the same interpretation as you.But my point is that because it is clear for us,it doesn't mean that it's clear for other people like tommythecat.He doesn't see the ending as definite as the most people do and that is his right.And as long as there is a evidence out there which is against the theory of the siblings to be together as lovers forever,so long he does has the right to say they aren't going to be togetehr again (at least not as lovers).He doesn't say we are all wrong,so please don't say he is definitively wrong with his interpretation,because he isn't.His interpretation is definitively legit.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:08   Link #3591
seangel92
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
Yeah,I have the same interpretation as you.But my point is that because it is clear for us,it doesn't mean that it's clear for other people like tommythecat.He doesn't see the ending as definite as the most people do and that is his right.And as long as there is a evidence out there which is against the theory of the siblings to be together as lovers forever,so long he does has the right to say they aren't going to be togetehr again (at least not as lovers).He doesn't say we are all wrong,so please don't say he is definitively wrong with his interpretation,because he isn't.His interpretation is definitively legit.
The autor made this ending only to avoid the law in order to the "I don't like incest, I want to see them in a normal siblings relationship" can be happy saying that they have a no-incest ending (forced interpretation and what the autor wants to calm this people). For me it's clear.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:08   Link #3592
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Part 3 Final Chapter

Spoiler for Part 3 Final Chapter:
Atmosphere getting tense there (well, here as well). Shit gets serious now,cant wait for the excitement !!! thx mate great job
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:12   Link #3593
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
No, because I guessed by the context of the conversation where this was going, and I was dreading it since it's a reprise of what has been going on for days with you all over the Internet. But here you go anyway...

The marriage ceremony was only the two of them.
Well thank you for answering the question and insulting me. The reason I wanted to be clear was because the interview talked about a secret they share so I wanted to know if the wedding could be that secret. I knew it was private but didn't know if it was a secret.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:14   Link #3594
Kakurin-san
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I am watching this discussion pretty curiously. Because I for my part am completely disinterested in the question of whether they are together forever, whether they are dating behind the curtains or whatever. Why? First of all, Kirino is happy. Even though I still haven't gone through the very last part, yet, it can be said, that Kirino is happy. And for me as a Kirino fan this is quite important. Second, Kirino got her wish, in that Kyousuke has chosen her and in that process broken off all the bridges behind him. Third, Kirino got those lovely moments (cute interactions, kiss) that I wanted to see. And fourth, even if they are not actively dating in the end, they are still in love.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:15   Link #3595
s0beit
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Part 3 Final Chapter

Spoiler for Part 3 Final Chapter:
Oh god Mikagami...
You are one of my favorite characters still
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:20   Link #3596
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
I am watching this discussion pretty curiously. Because I for my part am completely disinterested in the question of whether they are together forever, whether they are dating behind the curtains or whatever. Why? First of all, Kirino is happy. Even though I still haven't gone through the very last part, yet, it can be said, that Kirino is happy. And for me as a Kirino fan this is quite important. Second, Kirino got her wish, in that Kyousuke has chosen her and in that process broken off all the bridges behind him. Third, Kirino got those lovely moments (cute interactions, kiss) that I wanted to see. And fourth, even if they are not actively dating in the end, they are still in love.
I totally agree with this, I just don't like that everyone claims it's clear incest babies are in their future. Kirino's resolution is what matters for sure.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:22   Link #3597
seangel92
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
I am watching this discussion pretty curiously. Because I for my part am completely disinterested in the question of whether they are together forever, whether they are dating behind the curtains or whatever. Why? First of all, Kirino is happy. Even though I still haven't gone through the very last part, yet, it can be said, that Kirino is happy. And for me as a Kirino fan this is quite important. Second, Kirino got her wish, in that Kyousuke has chosen her and in that process broken off all the bridges behind him. Third, Kirino got those lovely moments (cute interactions, kiss) that I wanted to see. And fourth, even if they are not actively dating in the end, they are still in love.
I didn't say that they date every day, I think that they would have specials days or something and they gonna wait until she is an adult or she ends her studies and they can reveal their love or something. She always wanted to be with him in a romantic way forever, she didn't want a "normal siblings" but is clear that she was forcing herself to it because the problems with society can mess up his future.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:24   Link #3598
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
Yeah,I have the same interpretation as you.But my point is that because it is clear for us,it doesn't mean that it's clear for other people like tommythecat.He doesn't see the ending as definite as the most people do and that is his right.And as long as there is a evidence out there which is against the theory of the siblings to be together as lovers forever,so long he does has the right to say they aren't going to be togetehr again (at least not as lovers).He doesn't say we are all wrong,so please don't say he is definitevely wrong with his interpretation,because he isn't.His interpretation is definitevely legit.
The issue isn't "because we don't know for absolute certain what happens, we can't conclude that something different will happen down the road". If that were the case, then no ending in literature is ever "final" unless we follow every day until the characters die.

The issue is: what does the preponderance of evidence suggest for how we should interpret what is shown? And, secondly, what does the evidence suggest about the direction for what happens next?

I mean, since we "don't actually know what will happen", I could say that they'll arrive at the meet-up, Kuroneko will take Kyousuke aside, kiss him, and say that she's thought it over, that she doesn't care if he loves Kirino but she won't give up until he loves her back. And that, upon learning this, Kirino will give up on Kyousuke entirely. You could say "well, doesn't say it doesn't happen, so seems legit!". But how likely is that based on what we know of the characters, their previous actions, and their motivations? How is this supported by the hints we are given in the narrative itself?

So even in an "open ending", not all theories are equal. "Anything can happen", but we still have to consider what is most likely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
Well thank you for answering the question and insulting me. The reason I wanted to be clear was because the interview talked about a secret they share so I wanted to know if the wedding could be that secret.
*sigh*...

No. The symbol of their shared secret is the life consultation. The life consultation was announced in direct response Kyousuke's second kiss, that happens well after the wedding. The shared secret is tied to their relationship going forward, not anything that happens in the past. There is absolutely no insinuation or suggestion by the author that the "shared secret" referred to by the life consultation is the wedding, and this does not match the way the ending was presented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
I just don't like that everyone claims it's clear incest babies are in their future.
Nobody here said this, that I can recall.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:26   Link #3599
Kakurin-san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommythecat View Post
I totally agree with this, I just don't like that everyone claims it's clear incest babies are in their future. Kirino's resolution is what matters for sure.
To me their relationship is a romantical one on the level of emotions / affections. I do not see this as a sexual one. This just doesn't fit with my image of Kirino.

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Originally Posted by seangel92 View Post
I didn't say that they date every day, I think that they would have specials days or something and they gonna wait until she is an adult or she has finished her studies and they can reveal their love or something. She always wanted to be with him in a romantic way forever, she didn't want a "normal siblings" but is clear that she was forcing herself to it because the problems with society can mess up his future.
I agree with that 'normal siblings' thing and that's what I meant with they are still in love in the end. They are clearly still in love, and as such their relationship is not one of normal siblings, as the affection and care is clearly present, even without active dating and other stuff.
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Old 2013-06-14, 17:27   Link #3600
zubalikei
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Let me answer it this way. The author wanted to give kirino the best ending possible. In other words he wanted her to be happy. And what makes Kirino to be happy: to be with her onii chan forever (just like in her recordings).

So everyone his conclusion
Ia totally agreed your opinion...
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