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Old 2013-06-15, 11:38   Link #3661
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by KronosPlasma View Post
Kyouske seemed okay at first the split up might have just been sooner than he would have liked.
Having broken up twice now with a girl he loved. So who knows only a new harem/time can fix that. The kiss might have also been seen as him joke with her to lighten his mood. Only to get scold with "life-counseling session". When they get home thou he my be looking forward to it. By the end he seems to like the abuse
Well Kuroneko seems to think he's a masochist and he does seem to enjoy putting himself in precarious positions so it wouldn't surprise me if all the tsundere abuse has grown on him to the point of truly enjoying it.
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Old 2013-06-15, 11:44   Link #3662
Soverence
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Um, this is no summary.
Well, that certainly felt lacking then to me, it felt like that last part was rushed with the wedding and all, maybe it was meant to be that way?

Well all and all, with the entire summary/translation out I am happy with this last volume for the most part, it is most certainly a "realistic" Kirino end in terms of this novel. If they continue their lovers relationship after or not is irrelevant to the fact that it is still a Kirino end if you ask me.

One of the major things that bugged me though was the fact Ayase kind of disappeared after her chapter, we saw the reactions of almost everyone else to Kirino and Kyousuke dating but we never see Ayase again which I think is weird considering she is Kirino's best friend. I can can sorta see why this might be because of the kind of person Ayase is that she wouldn't want to see Kyousuke again but at the same time it still bugs me.

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Originally Posted by jandkas View Post
Best ending ever...
It was certainly a good one, I will give you that. It did end on one of the best (and TOTALLY unpredictable ) lines ever though.
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Old 2013-06-15, 12:06   Link #3663
Choroshi
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at last, finally... Props to Kyousuke for his decisions.. even though he knows that their relationship as a couple won't last long, he still chose Kirino, the most difficult "route", over all the other girls.. (i'm a fan of kirino but i wouldn't really mind if he choose Ayase though, she would be quite a good match for him)

the epilogue really helped me to understand more about Kirino's and kyousuke's true feelings..


@SigUp : Thanks a lot for translating the whole volume


edit:

Kirino went full dere in the church scene. SO CUTE D:
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Old 2013-06-15, 12:22   Link #3664
DevG
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Honestly right! Best ending ever

I somehow managed to wait a week so far for the translations, i guess i can put up waiting more! The thing is somehow I got a breather from this series, and took up Nisekoi manga.

I still have yet to finish volume 3, since im distracted atm, but I have a feeling that when im done volumes 3 to 6, the translations for 12 will be out! I acctually check Baka Tsuki every day LOL

Anyways, Ive become more patient!
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Old 2013-06-15, 12:53   Link #3665
KronosPlasma
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Originally Posted by Soverence View Post
One of the major things that bugged me though was the fact Ayase kind of disappeared after her chapter, we saw the reactions of almost everyone else to Kirino and Kyousuke dating but we never see Ayase again which I think is weird considering she is Kirino's best friend.
I'd love to see/read this but I don't think it would matter seeing as she pretty much Kirino's doormat. She'll go along with what ever she says.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:09   Link #3666
jandkas
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Is it a problem if Ore no imouto novel keeps popping over and over in my head, and I am addicted to checking back to this forum for more news, I feel like I need help seriously.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:12   Link #3667
tommythecat
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Originally Posted by jandkas View Post
Is it a problem if Ore no imouto novel keeps popping over and over in my head, and I am addicted to checking back to this forum for more news, I feel like I need help seriously.
Oreimo sucks a lot of people in, it did to me as well. I can't even really explain what it is that I like so much about it. It will forever be one of my favorite anime/LNs
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:23   Link #3668
Kakurin-san
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So, now it's my turn to go onto thin ice and attempt a preliminary interpretation of the ending and the relationship between Kyousuke and Kirino. Although I have to mention that to me the question of whether Kirino and Kyousuke are still dating etc. is not that important. Most of what I say is based upon subjective assumptions and interpretation, so I know that I can't prove myself right, nor somebody else wrong.

1) Do Kirino and Kyousuke return to being normal siblings?: Their agreement does stipulate that after they graduate they return to being normal siblings. So, why do I put that in a question mark? Now first of all, disregarding their possible intentions, I think it is impossible for them to return to being your normal siblings, even if they wanted. The reason, or better assumption, given by myself is, it is impossible for them to return to being normal siblings as long as they love each other and are aware of this fact. And despite them seemingly breaking up after the marriage ceremony I think it can be seen as pretty sure, that they still love each other.

For Kyousuke I think this can be seen as pretty sure, he rejected everybody due to his love for Kirino (compare what Manami said in her questioning, and also his declaration later, both in Chapter 6) and in the end declared that not taking anyone else was his decision. Concerning Kirino, we don't get to listen to her heart, but I also think that she still loves him. Why? Because after getting through so much trouble to realize her desire, it would be ridiculous in my eyes if she suddenly stopped loving him. Furthermore it was her, who was eager in telling all of their friends of them dating, if you are ready to stop loving someone after the 'return to siblings' (they made this agreement on Christmas), why do you go as far as voluntarily declaring your love to so many people? Last but not least she, like Kyousuke, was ready to give up many things for her love. To conclude it, for both of them it would be just ridiculous if they were able to just shut down their love on command. And my theory is, as long as they are in love, the can't be regarded as normal siblings.

Another question in this context is, if they return to being normal siblings after the wedding, what was the sense of that wedding? Because if they indeed return to to being normal siblings, this wedding ceremony was completely violating the meaning of wedding. A wedding normally seals the relationship of a couple, so if they went back to being siblings, this wedding would be more like a divorce (or a marriage-then-divorce) ceremony.

2) What does the wedding ceremony mean?: So, the question now is, what does this wedding ceremony mean? It is clear, that this was no official wedding. This wedding was organized by Kyousuke just for the two of them, nobody else was there. Not their parents, and also not the friends they had informed about their relationship (and who supported them). Now, does this mean this was a fake wedding, a wedding just for fun, or in truth an ending ceremony? My view on this is, this was indeed a legit wedding ceremony.

First of all, a look at the motivation of the protagonists Kyousuke and Kirino. Kyousuke makes it very clear, that he treats this wedding very seriously and not as some kind of joke / fun event. He states in Chapter 6

Spoiler for Kyousuke in Chapter 6:


Furthermore, he went to great to lengths to organize this marriage. How about Kirino then? This matter is complicated by the issue, that the entire Volume 12 is only told from the perspective from Kyousuke. So we have to rely much more on assumptions / signs etc. when trying to assess Kirino's intentions. But here I also think that Kirino treats this as a serious matter. First of all, she is very happy about that entire marriage. She was overwhelmed when Kyousuke proposed and she went completely dere-dere during the ceremony itself, when she declared that she was very happy. Then, it has always been her dream to marry Kyousuke. The Kirino of three years ago asked in the very beginning of the recording

Spoiler for Kirino in Chapter 5:


Now of course is the issue, they held a wedding ceremony that has not been attended or recognized by anybody. And Kirino herself always mentioned that siblings are not allowed to marry. At this point, I think the Mikagami part is pretty important. Mikagami's statement was never contradicted by Kyousuke and Kyousuke seemed to be impressed by it. Assuming the author didn't include this part just to show how crazy Mikagami is (that should be clear enough with that bike thing ), then I think it is safe to conclude that this passage has its meaning when interpreting Kirino's and Kyousuke's wedding. So what was that part?

Spoiler for Mikagami & Kyousuke in Chapter 6:


So, if one applies Mikagami's statement to Kyousuke and Kirino's situation, the conclusion is, that although their wedding has no worth before the society, for them individually, it counts as a true wedding. So, if one interprets the wedding in this way, they consider themselves married. Now of course, the question is, why do they still declare they are from that point on normal siblings?

3) Internal / External: This is now the most shaky part of this interpretation. And this shaky part is, Kyousuke and Kirino are internalising their relationship with the wedding. They move it from an outside sphere into their respective hearts. In this light I of course have to take a spectacular leap and interpret their agreement by adding something myself.

Spoiler for Agreement:


And this amendment I make is, their agreement stipulates their outward behaviour. Of course the big problem is, I can't prove this, so everybody can attack this spot of my interpretation in a big way. So, how did this interpretation arise? Well, because I was somewhat puzzled by the way Kirino stormed out and told like every one of their mutual friends about their relationship. As she already knew that they were going to 'end' this relationship, why did she bother risking that much by telling not only Saori and Kuroneko, but also Sakurai, Ayase, Sena and perhaps Mikagami? It would have been no problem, and most likely a far more convenient choice, to just ride it out together with Kyousuke. To sum it up, this interpretation stipulates that before their graduation they go out in a relatively public fashion, and after their graduation, they are behaving like normal siblings in the public.

4) So, having written all this, what is my opinion on their relationship? My opinion, as stipulated in the beginning is, they are not in a normal siblings relationship. But this also does not automatically mean that I think they are secretly dating / kissing / hugging. I tend to regard their love / relationship on an emotional level. As such, it doesn't matter whether they are actively dating / kissing in secret, as this would not have an important influence upon their relationship, as this relationship is internalised in their hearts. To put it short, in my opinion they are not necessarily going out, but they are together in a romantical relationship, they are a 'married' couple. This way Kirino's dream of staying together forever with Kyousuke can be realized and Kyousuke's decision to date nobody is also nothing too sad.

So, last but not least, why aren't they taking it public? Well, to put it in Kyousuke's words,

Spoiler for Kyousuke Chapter 6:

Last edited by Kakurin-san; 2013-06-15 at 14:42.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:34   Link #3669
Ricadan
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
4) So, having written all this, what is my opinion on their relationship? My opinion, as stipulated in the beginning is, they are not in a normal siblings relationship. But this also does not automatically mean that I think they are secretly dating / kissing / hugging. I tend to regard their love / relationship on an emotional level. As such, it doesn't matter whether they are actively dating / kissing in secret, as this would not have an important influence upon their relationship, as this relationship is internalised in their hearts. To put it short, in my opinion they are not necessarily going out, but they are together in a romantical relationship, they are a 'married' couple. This way Kirino's dream of staying together forever with Kyousuke can be realized and Kyousuke's decision to date nobody is also nothing too sad.
I think it matters to some degree. Even if their feelings for each other are legitimate, it is sad to think that they will have no ways to regularly express it. To think that their love will go no farther than acknowledgement is a bit depressing.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:39   Link #3670
relentlessflame
 
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@SigUp:
In general, I can't find any logical faults with your interpretation (it seems to match the evidence presented in the book with no clear conflicts that I'm seeing). But, to the third point you raised, I would add one additional point. Kirino and Kyousuke both knew they were planning to "return to normal siblings" right after the wedding. Kirino seemed willing to reveal this to Manami, but Kyousuke did not. And then later in the epilogue, Kyousuke is still willing to kiss her, even though she thought it was against their promise (whether it was on the lips or on the cheek/forehead notwithstanding -- the point is still that she considers it sort of "breaking the pact"). So it seems to me that Kirino and Kyousuke had a slightly different inference of what form their love would take in public/private going forward, and that's the reason for a) Kyousuke using his wish the way he did and b) the life counselling at the end. (Kirino naively believing that it meant she had to try to suppress all her feelings, but Kyousuke believing that his feelings won't change regardless of whether he can show it. Perhaps this difference in perspective reflects their difference in age a little bit?)

Above all, I agree with your main point that neither of them can really "switch off" their feelings on demand. This seems completely impossible to me. So this is why I simply cannot believe that Kirino would honestly be "upset" by Kyousuke's second kiss (though, embarassed that he did it in public, and shocked that he broke what she thought was the agreement: absolutely). She still called out to him in the end. And given that Kyousuke and Kirino had both basically chosen a life together to the exclusion of all others (in the romantic sense), the central meaning of the wedding is the same. Inferring what happens after all this: who knows. But to this point, I think your interpretation seems the most suitable given the character development so far.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:55   Link #3671
tommythecat
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Very nice write up there SigUp.

I'm glad you decided to share your perspective it has a logical flow to it and it's hard to argue against any of the points raised. In the end the decisions made lead to Kirino's happiness, how they treat their relationship going forward is pretty irrelevant. Their bond together probably doesn't fall into a neat little packages of familial or romantic love, maybe something more nondescript like a "spiritual bond" would be more appropriate. Though I'm not really sure that fits either
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:07   Link #3672
finalfury
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@SignUp and relentlessflame,
For Kirino's reaction to the second kiss, the interpretation I had was that the reaction was caused due to fear. Fear that if she let him get away with it, they would eventually go to a path of no return. For some couples and the like, sometimes one person will try to convince the other to do something that they initially do not want to do. That is probably why I think Kirino reacted the way she did, because regardless of how much goodwill Kyousuke has, there is no doubt in her mind that he will continue to influence her.
Ergo, preventing something big from happening by striking at the first attempt is her primary motivation for reacting in fear to his actions. I believe in this due to her radio recordings to her future self which shows how much she thinks of the future. This is all probably badly explained tho so please bear with me.
tl;dr: Fear is the reaction she has due to the event becoming the precedent for future events that lead to a path of no return if not dealt with immediately.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:15   Link #3673
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
@SigUp:
IBut, to the third point you raised, I would add one additional point. Kirino and Kyousuke both knew they were planning to "return to normal siblings" right after the wedding. Kirino seemed willing to reveal this to Manami, but Kyousuke did not. And then later in the epilogue, Kyousuke is still willing to kiss her, even though she thought it was against their promise (whether it was on the lips or on the cheek/forehead notwithstanding -- the point is still that she considers it sort of "breaking the pact"). So it seems to me that Kirino and Kyousuke had a slightly different inference of what form their love would take in public/private going forward, and that's the reason for a) Kyousuke using his wish the way he did and b) the life counselling at the end. (Kirino naively believing that it meant she had to try to suppress all her feelings, but Kyousuke believing that his feelings won't change regardless of whether he can show it. Perhaps this difference in perspective reflects their difference in age a little bit?)
After you have made me aware of this point, I think your right. Kyousuke seems to have less fear / qualms about taking it somewhat more external. In the last chapter towards Manami he said something like (provided I understood it correctly when translating)

Spoiler for Kyousuke Final Chapter:


or

Spoiler for Kyousuke Final Chapter:


And before that he also says something like charging straight through that minefield. So his kiss in the end can definitely be seen in this light. Kirino is sill younger, to her reputation is more important (I mean Kyousuke is known as sexual harassment manager ), so to her this internalisation is more important than to Kyousuke. But I think Kyousuke knows very well that they can't go absolutely external (as shown by his thoughts when Manami hypothetically said telling his father about it) and his desire to protect Kirino also controls this.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:19   Link #3674
Icewolfnector
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You know what's funny about the Epilogue?
Kirino wanted Kyouske to buy a new ring for her hehe
Furthermore Kyouske used the same words as Kirino as a reason after he kissed her.
"As we are siblings, whats so bad about it?"
A classical tsun way of saying what she really thinks
For me that seals the deal about what is going to happen to them after this
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:25   Link #3675
Thailog
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Originally Posted by Icewolfnector View Post
You know what's funny about the Epilogue?
Kirino wanted Kyouske to buy a new ring for her hehe
Furthermore Kyouske used the same words as Kirino as a reason after he kissed her.
Exactly!

My impression is the same as yours, that they both want the relationship to continue despite their previous agreement. After buying the ring, Kyousuke took it a step further by initiating the kiss while Kirino reacted in her usual tsun way. Besides, after all they've been thorough, it's hard to imagine them going back to being just siblings again.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:26   Link #3676
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
tl;dr: Fear is the reaction she has due to the event becoming the precedent for future events that lead to a path of no return if not dealt with immediately.
I don't really buy "fear", and here's why: she doesn't really reject him. All she displays at first is shock, but then makes two gestures: 1) that they'll discuss this when they get home, and 2) to beckon him to keep following her. If she were really afraid, she would have run away, or it would have taken her a lot longer to recover.

Now maybe there's uncertainty/anxiety there, and I'm sure the concern about where all this could lead is in both of their minds (which is why they took this path in the first place), but I think it's not fear.

So I think there's truth in what you're saying (she is no doubt concerned about the repercussions, and would certainly be worried about taking another step), but I think she still chooses him anyway. And I would argue that's the key message of that final scene.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:31   Link #3677
Ricadan
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
@SignUp and relentlessflame,
For Kirino's reaction to the second kiss, the interpretation I had was that the reaction was caused due to fear. Fear that if she let him get away with it, they would eventually go to a path of no return. For some couples and the like, sometimes one person will try to convince the other to do something that they initially do not want to do. That is probably why I think Kirino reacted the way she did, because regardless of how much goodwill Kyousuke has, there is no doubt in her mind that he will continue to influence her.
Ergo, preventing something big from happening by striking at the first attempt is her primary motivation for reacting in fear to his actions. I believe in this due to her radio recordings to her future self which shows how much she thinks of the future. This is all probably badly explained tho so please bear with me.
tl;dr: Fear is the reaction she has due to the event becoming the precedent for future events that lead to a path of no return if not dealt with immediately.
I don't think her reaction was completely fearful or completely tsundere-happiness, it was probably a bit of both. Like SigUp said, she definitely has a higher priority of internalizing their relationship and probably would have preferred to keep it that way, which would cause a fearful reaction. But when she calls out to Kyousuke in the end, I would interpret that as her starting to have second thoughts.

Edit: Welp, looks like I just posted the exact same thing as relentlessflame
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:21   Link #3678
Guy Incognito
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Epilogue

Spoiler for Epilogue:
this bin bugging me what does yare mean? and thanks for the spoilers.
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:26   Link #3679
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by Dovahkyon View Post
this bin bugging me what does yare mean? and thanks for the spoilers.
Yare is something similar to 'oy' or 'oh my' in English.
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Old 2013-06-15, 15:35   Link #3680
seangel92
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Episode 11 was very funny xDD

It's a sausage! xDD
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