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Old 2013-07-02, 10:46   Link #4061
kaigan
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i have the feeling that the anime showed us an abridged version of events. supposedly manami's brother's 'betrayal' made manami know about kiri's feelings towards kyou, right?
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Old 2013-07-02, 10:47   Link #4062
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Kirino didn't engage Manami into such type of discussion. It was the other way round, Manami actively sought out that topic with Kirino.
Why did Manami open a sibling love affair discussion anyway?
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Old 2013-07-02, 11:05   Link #4063
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Anything new about this 10 year after? Job keeps me rollin' and can't find time on the ground to keep up in this thread.
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Old 2013-07-02, 11:13   Link #4064
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Originally Posted by Solafighter View Post
Anything new about this 10 year after? Job keeps me rollin' and can't find time on the ground to keep up in this thread.
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Apparently it's about chuunibyou Tamaki visits Kirino to watch a Meruru Remake 10 years after the end of the story (remember that Tamaki is a Meruru fan in present-day). Future Tamaki apparently looks just like Kuroneko does present-day. Kirino is apparently so beautiful for her age that chuuni-Tamaki considers her a modern-day witch. () Hinata also goes to see Kirino to ask for "life counselling" about her little sister. None of the other characters appear.

(But, if Kirino is hanging out with Ruri's sisters, then it certainly suggests that the two families are still friends.)
I think this is like the 5th time this has been posted so I am not sure if I should post it again, but here it is anyway .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
Why did Manami open a sibling love affair discussion anyway?
That kind of bugged me as well, it just seems to come out of no where. I mean as light novel readers we get where it is all coming from, but from the context of the anime the only previous hints at all (chronologically) for Manami are the one time they are hanging out at her house and Kirino gets annoyed and when Kirino screamed to give her back her brother. Both of those things don't really scream "incest".
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Old 2013-07-02, 11:23   Link #4065
Wilshere
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Originally Posted by kaigan View Post
i have the feeling that the anime showed us an abridged version of events. supposedly manami's brother's 'betrayal' made manami know about kiri's feelings towards kyou, right?
I don't think Manami knew about it. Ironically, Rock asked to fight Kyousuke(back then,when he was angry that he thought Manami is being taken away) and now it's Manami and Kirino's turn to do it.

Edit: Rock also says that ''I will take this secret to the grave''. He was a sis-con back then, and Kirino's definiton of traitor is that he ''betrayed'' Manami.
Its the same with Kirino,well he grew out from it, as for Kirino she was told to bottle-up her feelings resulting in this brother complex.
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Old 2013-07-02, 17:40   Link #4066
KronosPlasma
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

In a way, it's not so dissimilar to how Kyousuke took responsibility for Kirino's eroge at the beginning of the story, and the Dad still had to punch him even though he knew full well that Kyousuke was just lying to protect Kirino -- and after that, the Dad could willingly turn a blind eye to it. What Manami does here is pretty similar -- since they haven't told their parents,
Well compering it to what the dad did helps makes things clearer for me.
It still feels odd the way things go down though.



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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
I don't think Manami knew about it. Ironically, Rock asked to fight Kyousuke(back then,when he was angry that he thought Manami is being taken away) and now it's Manami and Kirino's turn to do it.

Edit: Rock also says that ''I will take this secret to the grave''. He was a sis-con back then, and Kirino's definiton of traitor is that he ''betrayed'' Manami.
Its the same with Kirino,well he grew out from it, as for Kirino she was told to bottle-up her feelings resulting in this brother complex.
She wasn't told to bottle it up her feelings. Simply put from what Manami said get over it. She could have talked to Kyousuke at the time. Not counting how the anime showed it. Kirino is a lot more forceful in the novel at that point. So getting him to pay attention doesn't seem to be an issue she's not all tsundere yet.

That aside were the hell is Rock in the story. For being the brother of one of the main character he's almost never brought up.
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Old 2013-07-02, 18:22   Link #4067
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Originally Posted by KronosPlasma View Post
She wasn't told to bottle it up her feelings. Simply put from what Manami said get over it. She could have talked to Kyousuke at the time.
No, I think it's pretty clear that she could not have talked to Kyousuke about it at the time. She was told by Manami that her feelings were abnormal and something she should never tell to anyone because they'd think it strange. So, in her mind, telling Kyousuke about her feelings risked ruining whatever chance she had of making things work -- because, given that he was already sort of in "alignment" with Manami about his behaviour, he could just similarly dismiss her feelings as abnormal and that'd be a barrier she could never cross again. So, instead, she did a sort of strategic retreat.

You may wish to re-read the scenes with Kirino's audio recordings to better understand her thinking here.
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Old 2013-07-02, 23:43   Link #4068
Drakkar77
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Regarding the discussion on this page, the posts are too numerous for me to attempt any quotes, so I'll just summarize my thoughts.

I don't know that it was stated directly in the LN but if it's true that Rock was a siscon at the three years previous to the beginning of the story, then the reason for Kirino calling him a traitor and him telling her to 'grow up already' are probably one and the same.

It seems to me that Rock and Kirino must have some how got into a discussion about having feels for each of their own siblings, and agreed that they would not tell anyone about that discussion. Rock being the siscon that he was and Manami's ability to read people she's close to, he must have confessed the discussion to Manami.

After the eventual confrontation of Manami to Kirino about the latter's feelings for her older brother, Kirino would have known immediately that it was Rock that betrayed her. Thus the reason for what they said to each other when Rock and Kirino met before the meeting to help Manami and Kirino improve their relationaship in volume 11, chapter 1 at the Tamura home becomes clear.

Quote:
Rock was very surprised. Seeing Rock, Kirino said in a blank tone.

"Ah, traitor."

"——"

After he recovered (which took a while), Rock timidly asked:

"…Could it be… you still do it…?"
Rock's meaning, "you still pine for your brother?"

Quote:
"Hmm, it doesn't matter anyway."

Kirino… Did she just call Rock a 'traitor?'

I didn't understand the situation, but Rock muttered:

"…Isn't it better to say it out loud… Really...? Ah… really…"
Rock's meaning, "why don't you just tell him already?"

Quote:
Rock sighed… and then he spoke as if he was talking to a kid.

"That… It has been a long time already. We are both in middle school now, right?"

I couldn't believe my ears… Rock was treating Kirino like a kid.

Rock told Kirino to hurry and grow up…
The point about Rock taking some information to his grave must have been this very secret.

Quote:
"………"

Kirino didn't reply, her was expression blank. I sighed and asked Rock:

"What happened between you two?"

"Ah, that was! We —"

" — Try saying it."

Kirino interrupted.

"Ugh!"

Interrupted, Rock turned to Manami —

"A a a a a a a a! I can't!"

He screamed. I was even more puzzled than before.

"Hey, what is going on?"

"Sorry Kyou-chan! Please release me! I will take this secret with me to the grave!"
What could be so important that he'd take it to his grave? Until now I didn't know.

I didn't understand all this at the time but after reading this page's discussion it seems clear to me now that this must have been the reasoning behind those exchanges between Rock, Kirino, Manami and Kyousuke.

It's my firm belief now that this is how Manami knew about Kirino's true feelings for Kyousuke, and thus why Manami counseled Kyousuke to change his behavior after the whole Sakurai incident. Thus resulting in the cold war and the beginning of the story. Manami, albeit wrongly, thought that separating the siblings might be the best way to cool Kirino's feelings. I could be wrong, it's really hard to tell if Manami was planning that far ahead or was just trying to stop Kyousuke from being the reckless superhero he tended to play at the time. It could have also been for both reasons, this story is full of double reasons/meanings like that.

Edit: Maybe I'm just showing how dumb or how much or an inexperienced read I am but Hiro Kanzaki seems to have a lot of material that requires a thorough examination in order to truly understand/appreciate everything within the story. Honestly you don't see much writing like this anymore in novels. I know it's kinda cliche to say but a lot stuff nowadays is really to watered/dumbed down. It's very refreshing to see novels with this level of complexity still being created today!

Last edited by Drakkar77; 2013-07-03 at 05:53.
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Old 2013-07-03, 02:43   Link #4069
Wilshere
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^ I think I summarized it in 2 sentences but with these citations it makes them more clear.
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Old 2013-07-03, 04:24   Link #4070
Drakkar77
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Originally Posted by Wilshere View Post
^ I think I summarized it in 2 sentences but with these citations it makes them more clear.
Ah, I didn't realize sorry.^^ I guess I read through your post too quickly to understand what you meant...

Edit: After read it again, I can see what you meant. I guess I was just trying to clarify it for myself. Thanks
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Old 2013-07-03, 11:22   Link #4071
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10 years after was disappointing...
Seriously disappointing.... Sigh
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Old 2013-07-03, 14:42   Link #4072
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10 years after was disappointing...
Seriously disappointing.... Sigh
I think it's just that people over-hyped it. It's a short story that comes with the first volume of the anime, so it was not going to contain spoilers for things that anime-only viewers hadn't seen yet. But people got excited by the title and the fact that one of the early summaries implied that the short story would somehow continue the story, but that was just something the summary writer guessed/made-up (the novel never said implied anything about it).

For what it is, I'd say it seems pretty fun (though I won't receive my copy for a little bit yet).
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Old 2013-07-03, 14:46   Link #4073
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10 years after was disappointing...
Seriously disappointing.... Sigh
Didn't expect anything from it anyway. This story can't be considered canon at all.
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Old 2013-07-03, 16:28   Link #4074
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Didn't expect anything from it anyway. This story can't be considered canon at all.
Why wouldn't it be considered canon, even if it's a side-story? It's written by the original author and published as part of official OreImo merchandise. There's nothing in it that contradicts anything canonical. Personally, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be "canon", even though it doesn't directly relate to the rest of the plot points of Vol. 12.
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Old 2013-07-05, 10:35   Link #4075
Kakurin-san
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Chapter 3 is up on baka tsuki, the confession scene.
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Old 2013-07-05, 11:38   Link #4076
liemtodaisu
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Chapter 3 is up on baka tsuki, the confession scene.
Okay there goes my heart at the last scene of chapter 3

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-07-05 at 21:34. Reason: removed off-topic image
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Old 2013-07-05, 16:19   Link #4077
iMACobra
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Hey, guys! I've been reading up on the Oreimo LNs and forums but I still don't get the question on how Kyousuke fell in love with Kirino in the first place. I mean, I understand how Kirino fell in love with her brother (ever since she was a little kid, looking up to her Onii-chan) but I don't see how Kyousuke outright fell for her. It only seemed like he just started to romantically love Kirino in Vol. 12, preparing his confession for her on their X-mas date. I could only see that Kyousuke fell for Kirino because he is a huge siscon (which he states multiple times). But for him to truly fall in love with Kirino just came so abruptly in Vol. 12. There were really no hints that Kyousuke really truly, romantically loved Kirino before Vol. 12 came out (at least that I know of). That's why many people would always brush Kirino off to the side when it came to which girl would win Kyousuke (and also the incest).

Anyways, I am saying this also to question if the end of the series was even good storywriting on Fushimi's part because it seemed like Fushimi just made Kyousuke fall in love with Kirino in Vol. 12, also revealing Kirino's secret messages in the same volume which we never knew about before this volume came out. Also, people seem to have been let on about the whole premise of the beginning of the story which was about how two hateful siblings would eventually mend their relationship through one's unlikely secret. They never expected a story that would lead to "somewhat" incest so I could see why this would garner some serious backlash and controversy. It kind of spoiled the "siblings get along better" relationships to a "siblings get together" one which left a bad taste in people's mouths who thought the story would just be about siblings getting along better.

Regarding the last 3 OVA specials or whatever they're called, REALISTICALLY, what do you guys think these last few episodes will be about? I am kind of hoping all 3 will cover Vol. 12 (most of it hopefully), maybe, with some parts in previous volumes if they are much needed, but I am kind of doubtful about it. I think that the last volume might be made into either 1 or 2 of the specials just to make room for other alternate paths just to make some the fans happy. I think this way because of the controversy and backlash the last volume and ending received by the fans, especially for such a more-than-average and popular series like Oreimo. With a popular series like this, people who only watched the Anime don't see the ending that's coming. If it totally ends like Vol. 12 then even more controversy and backlash might be created for this series because people were let on by the premise of the series (siblings get along better) and the incest. I even greatly fear that the Anime will give a totally different ending than the light novels just so they don't get the backlash as they did with light novel ending.

By the way I am speaking, I am pretty sure that I am in a neutral stance with the light novel ending as in I am 100% okay with it after understanding the "true" meaning behind the epilogue (e.g. the "kiss" and the life-counseling) which most people will never understand. Well, people will still argue that they forever stay siblings (with no romantic love between them) but I believe that there is much more evidence to think otherwise.
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Old 2013-07-05, 17:39   Link #4078
GVN.Chaos
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Originally Posted by iMACobra View Post
Hey, guys! I've been reading up on the Oreimo LNs and forums but I still don't get the question on how Kyousuke fell in love with Kirino in the first place. I mean, I understand how Kirino fell in love with her brother (ever since she was a little kid, looking up to her Onii-chan) but I don't see how Kyousuke outright fell for her. It only seemed like he just started to romantically love Kirino in Vol. 12, preparing his confession for her on their X-mas date. I could only see that Kyousuke fell for Kirino because he is a huge siscon (which he states multiple times). But for him to truly fall in love with Kirino just came so abruptly in Vol. 12. There were really no hints that Kyousuke really truly, romantically loved Kirino before Vol. 12 came out (at least that I know of). That's why many people would always brush Kirino off to the side when it came to which girl would win Kyousuke (and also the incest).
As pointed out before, this series is full of double/hidden meaning words. So a Kirino shipper can point them out and said 'hey, the author mentioned it WAY before'. My explanation is since Kyousuke is a big M and a siscon, since Kirino treated him like dirt, she automatically won
Joking aside, it's clear from volume 4-5 that Kyousuke like girl with long, black hair. And in Volume 10, he acknowledge that Kirino's action helped him a lot to get an A. So I think by this point, his feeling toward Kirino had changed from a sister complex to love.
Quote:
Regarding the last 3 OVA specials or whatever they're called, REALISTICALLY, what do you guys think these last few episodes will be about? I am kind of hoping all 3 will cover Vol. 12 (most of it hopefully), maybe, with some parts in previous volumes if they are much needed, but I am kind of doubtful about it. I think that the last volume might be made into either 1 or 2 of the specials just to make room for other alternate paths just to make some the fans happy. I think this way because of the controversy and backlash the last volume and ending received by the fans, especially for such a more-than-average and popular series like Oreimo. With a popular series like this, people who only watched the Anime don't see the ending that's coming. If it totally ends like Vol. 12 then even more controversy and backlash might be created for this series because people were let on by the premise of the series (siblings get along better) and the incest. I even greatly fear that the Anime will give a totally different ending than the light novels just so they don't get the backlash as they did with light novel ending.

By the way I am speaking, I am pretty sure that I am in a neutral stance with the light novel ending as in I am 100% okay with it after understanding the "true" meaning behind the epilogue (e.g. the "kiss" and the life-counseling) which most people will never understand. Well, people will still argue that they forever stay siblings (with no romantic love between them) but I believe that there is much more evidence to think otherwise.
To tell the truth, when a popular series with multiple girls running for the same guys end, it will create a backlash no matter what. I don't see how they could make an alternative ending. I meant, I like Kuroneko myself, but another ending will basically force the author to write something entire different for the climax, which is a lot harder.
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Old 2013-07-05, 17:53   Link #4079
iMACobra
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Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos View Post
To tell the truth, when a popular series with multiple girls running for the same guys end, it will create a backlash no matter what. I don't see how they could make an alternative ending. I meant, I like Kuroneko myself, but another ending will basically force the author to write something entire different for the climax, which is a lot harder.
Wouldn't going the Kirino route make a lot of people rage, not because their favorite girl lost but because of the incest??? Plus, this is a somewhat popular Anime. Don't get me wrong, I am fine with the ending but I see lots of people rage about this b/c of the incest.
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Old 2013-07-05, 18:25   Link #4080
Wilshere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMACobra View Post
Hey, guys! I've been reading up on the Oreimo LNs and forums but I still don't get the question on how Kyousuke fell in love with Kirino in the first place. I mean, I understand how Kirino fell in love with her brother (ever since she was a little kid, looking up to her Onii-chan) but I don't see how Kyousuke outright fell for her. It only seemed like he just started to romantically love Kirino in Vol. 12, preparing his confession for her on their X-mas date. I could only see that Kyousuke fell for Kirino because he is a huge siscon (which he states multiple times). But for him to truly fall in love with Kirino just came so abruptly in Vol. 12. There were really no hints that Kyousuke really truly, romantically loved Kirino before Vol. 12 came out (at least that I know of). That's why many people would always brush Kirino off to the side when it came to which girl would win Kyousuke (and also the incest).

Anyways, I am saying this also to question if the end of the series was even good storywriting on Fushimi's part because it seemed like Fushimi just made Kyousuke fall in love with Kirino in Vol. 12, also revealing Kirino's secret messages in the same volume which we never knew about before this volume came out. Also, people seem to have been let on about the whole premise of the beginning of the story which was about how two hateful siblings would eventually mend their relationship through one's unlikely secret. They never expected a story that would lead to "somewhat" incest so I could see why this would garner some serious backlash and controversy. It kind of spoiled the "siblings get along better" relationships to a "siblings get together" one which left a bad taste in people's mouths who thought the story would just be about siblings getting along better.

Regarding the last 3 OVA specials or whatever they're called, REALISTICALLY, what do you guys think these last few episodes will be about? I am kind of hoping all 3 will cover Vol. 12 (most of it hopefully), maybe, with some parts in previous volumes if they are much needed, but I am kind of doubtful about it. I think that the last volume might be made into either 1 or 2 of the specials just to make room for other alternate paths just to make some the fans happy. I think this way because of the controversy and backlash the last volume and ending received by the fans, especially for such a more-than-average and popular series like Oreimo. With a popular series like this, people who only watched the Anime don't see the ending that's coming. If it totally ends like Vol. 12 then even more controversy and backlash might be created for this series because people were let on by the premise of the series (siblings get along better) and the incest. I even greatly fear that the Anime will give a totally different ending than the light novels just so they don't get the backlash as they did with light novel ending.

By the way I am speaking, I am pretty sure that I am in a neutral stance with the light novel ending as in I am 100% okay with it after understanding the "true" meaning behind the epilogue (e.g. the "kiss" and the life-counseling) which most people will never understand. Well, people will still argue that they forever stay siblings (with no romantic love between them) but I believe that there is much more evidence to think otherwise.
Well, him gradually falling in love with her was not surprising and did not came out of the blue. You said you read the LNs,Volume 7 pretty much explains his situation. He got jealous when she brought the fake bf,he got irritated,he felt lonely and he doesnt anyone stealing his little sister,and then came his confession of that he cherishes her the most more than anybody,worries about her etc... anyway Volume 8 makes it clearer. If you want to take the awkward fall sign as an indication then so be it but most importantly is when she lent a helping-hand preventing him from getting depressed when Kuroneko broke up with him. She comforted him,assured that she will always be there for him and then she re-payed him by doing things that he did for her to him. And then there is the issue of Kyousuke not wanting Kirino to get a bf and vice-versa. This led to an infinite-closed loop. In Volume 10 he makes it clear that he has someone he loves,hence Ayase's rejection. Maybe these are not clear signs and Kyousuke is an unreliable narrator.

I'm sorry for shattering people's hopes of this being a normal story of two hating siblings reconciling;it being mainstream with no sexual themes doesn't necessarily mean there is nothing ''abnormal'' going on. How dense can you be? A little sister playing little sister based eroge and possibly not having ulterior motives? Maybe you have been caught of guard when she shrugs it off by saying ''they are just cute''. This has always been a love story and you can see it from season two, the fact of the bro-conXsis-con thing makes it clearer. If anything, you can take hints from Kirino of possibly having these kinds of feelings towards him,it was made clear in the anime from her interactions and how she acts around when other girls are around him.

As for the anime adapting a different ending, I don't want to think so and I think any ending other than in the novel is outrageous and even more misleading. People now think that its Kuroneko for sure(Kirino being the Imouto is a disadvantage of course) but there are signs and leads that its a Kirino end. Alternate paths?No,very unlikely. OVAs most likely will be all for Volume 12 since Kirino and Manami agreed on a little talk and fight at the same time(in Volume 12 they did ''talk'' and had their ''fight'' so yeah) and a flashback of events we have already seen(Ep13) and the omission of Sakurai(not reasonable bringing her now). Ep14 might be Chapters 1 and 3 (since 2 was Ayase's part and we had it) Ep15 Chapters 4 and 5 and Ep16 Chapter 6 and the epilogue. Its just me hopeful but I will go with this.

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Originally Posted by iMACobra View Post
Wouldn't going the Kirino route make a lot of people rage, not because their favorite girl lost but because of the incest??? Plus, this is a somewhat popular Anime. Don't get me wrong, I am fine with the ending but I see lots of people rage about this b/c of the incest.
It cannot be considered incest tho,since no actual proof of intercourse is stated but heck people can be sensitive
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2013-07-05 at 19:16. Reason: Please use the "edit" button to add content to your post instead of double posting.
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