The Pacific (HBO mini series)

[NorthernFallout]

I admit the brotherhood itself might be vague, but still, it does portray war, where "brotherhood" in this context existed anyway. It just isn't as obvious like in BoB. Still, the style, music and the composition of the series is what I think captures the BoB spirit.

[Nappy Hared Azn]

Originally Posted by NinjaYali

Didn't BOB emphasised brotherhood a lot? From what I've read, Eugene and Sid never met John.

And also, can you clear this up for me. According to TvTropes...

"Ho Yay - Eugene and his best friend Sidney "Sid" Phillips. The homoerotic subtext between these two "best friends" is just too obvious to ignore. "

Although, I'm kinda disappointed that Vernon Micheel who helped sink the Akagi was left out of the show. Midway would have been great to see on screen

While Sid and Leckie were in the same company together, they weren't really all that chummy. The interactions between the two were added to the show because they're both major players in the story (Leckie for his book, and Sid for being Sledge's buddy back home and for providing interviews). As for Midway... no. The Pacific is about the 1st MarDiv's actions throughout the PTO (plus Iwo Jima, since Basilone transferred to the 5th MarDiv), so it would make absolutely no sense to include it.

Also, people really need to stop comparing The Pacific to BoB. The only similarities is the fact that they're being produced by the same people and they take place during the same time period. BoB was more about the camaraderie formed during times of extreme stress (like war) whereas The Pacific is about what times of extreme stress (once again, war) does to individuals. I read an interview with Bruce McKenna, where he likened The Pacific to "BoB meets hell," and I'll post it if I can find it.

EDIT: Found it. <- Related.

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn

While Sid and Leckie were in the same company together, they weren't really all that chummy. The interactions between the two were added to the show because they're both major players in the story (Leckie for his book, and Sid for being Sledge's buddy back home and for providing interviews). As for Midway... no. The Pacific is about the 1st MarDiv's actions throughout the PTO (plus Iwo Jima, since Basilone transferred to the 5th MarDiv), so it would make absolutely no sense to include it.

Also, people really need to stop comparing The Pacific to BoB. The only similarities is the fact that they're being produced by the same people and they take place during the same time period. BoB was more about the camaraderie formed during times of extreme stress (like war) whereas The Pacific is about what times of extreme stress (once again, war) does to individuals. I read an interview with Bruce McKenna, where he likened The Pacific to "BoB meets hell," and I'll post it if I can find it.

EDIT: Found it. <- Related.

True but Vernon Micheel's story was included in the book so I wonder why Bombing 6 wasn't included on screen.

And for clarification, did all of these characters meet at one point? Because from what I can tell the focus changes from individual character to another without the two reacting. Think Band of Brothers where they were all in Easy Company and talked to each other at one point or the next.

[Nappy Hared Azn]

Originally Posted by NinjaYali

True but Vernon Micheel's story was included in the book so I wonder why Bombing 6 wasn't included on screen.

Which book? The movie tie-in by Ambrose? I'm asking because I don't remember reading about Midway in either Sledge's or Leckie's books.

In any case, even if it was a part of the source material, that doesn't mean it's going to be included. Like I said, they're concentrating on the 1st MarDiv on Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Okinawa, and the home front (with a bit of New Britain and Iwo Jima thrown in), so while Midway was important, it wouldn't make sense to include it, especially when you consider that none of the "big players" (Leckie, Sledge, and Basilone) took part in it. After all, the main focus of the series is to show how war affects individuals, and they do that by going into great depth with these characters. Also, with all the emphasis being put on the other battles (Peleliu takes up three episodes, if I'm recalling correctly), there just isn't enough time to include a large naval battle. I mean, the naval battle at Guadalcanal was condensed into a single scene of Marines watching ships get blown up at night. Think of it this way: even though the Operation Overlord beach landings were immensely important and took place just miles away from Part Two's (BoB) setting, the only references we get to it are 1) hearing US naval gunfire when they run into the dead paratrooper hanging from a tree, 2) assaulting the German guns firing on the beach, and 3) the tanks and troops rolling into town at the end of the episode. The time and focus of the series simply did not allow for the beach landing to be included.

And for clarification, did all of these characters meet at one point? Because from what I can tell the focus changes from individual character to another without the two reacting. Think Band of Brothers where they were all in Easy Company and talked to each other at one point or the next.

Well, Sid and Leckie were in the same company, so I'm sure they met. That being said, they hung out with different crowds (Leckie -> machine gun, Sid -> mortar), so they probably didn't have those "intimate" exchanges like in Part One. As a matter of fact, I think I remember one of the writers saying that most (if not all) of the conversations between Leckie and Sid were made up for the series.

And as for the whole switching-focus-between-characters thing, keep in mind that BoB was about a company, whereas The Pacific is about an entire division, with each of the three principle characters serving in different regiments. Ergo, the characters (and the focus put on them) would be entirely different from what we got in BoB.

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn

Which book? The movie tie-in by Ambrose? I'm asking because I don't remember reading about Midway in either Sledge's or Leckie's books.

In any case, even if it was a part of the source material, that doesn't mean it's going to be included. Like I said, they're concentrating on the 1st MarDiv on Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Okinawa, and the home front (with a bit of New Britain and Iwo Jima thrown in), so while Midway was important, it wouldn't make sense to include it, especially when you consider that none of the "big players" (Leckie, Sledge, and Basilone) took part in it. After all, the main focus of the series is to show how war affects individuals, and they do that by going into great depth with these characters. Also, with all the emphasis being put on the other battles (Peleliu takes up three episodes, if I'm recalling correctly), there just isn't enough time to include a large naval battle. I mean, the naval battle at Guadalcanal was condensed into a single scene of Marines watching ships get blown up at night. Think of it this way: even though the Operation Overlord beach landings were immensely important and took place just miles away from Part Two's (BoB) setting, the only references we get to it are 1) hearing US naval gunfire when they run into the dead paratrooper hanging from a tree, 2) assaulting the German guns firing on the beach, and 3) the tanks and troops rolling into town at the end of the episode. The time and focus of the series simply did not allow for the beach landing to be included.

Well, Sid and Leckie were in the same company, so I'm sure they met. That being said, they hung out with different crowds (Leckie -> machine gun, Sid -> mortar), so they probably didn't have those "intimate" exchanges like in Part One. As a matter of fact, I think I remember one of the writers saying that most (if not all) of the conversations between Leckie and Sid were made up for the series.

And as for the whole switching-focus-between-characters thing, keep in mind that BoB was about a company, whereas The Pacific is about an entire division, with each of the three principle characters serving in different regiments. Ergo, the characters (and the focus put on them) would be entirely different from what we got in BoB.

Double checked your post. Yeah the movie-tie in book.

It's Sidney Phillips and Eugene Sledge who were pretty close 'as friends' going around hunting and visiting Civil War battlegrounds together.

Sounds like they lived nice childhoods. Hope to visit the battlegrounds one day.

[NinjaYali]

By the way I hate the ads for the Pacific here.

They're making it out as if the US Marines played Australian sports like NRL. And why is it a 'battle for Australia'?

[Nappy Hared Azn]

I won't comment on the sports thing (mostly because I don't really get what you're talking about), but the reason Guadalcanal was called the "Battle for Australia" was because the Battle of Guadalcanal (and the entire Solomon Islands campaign, really) stopped the Japanese from moving southward, so while they did attack Australia, they weren't able to launch a full-on invasion, which they eventually would have if given the chance.

Now, did the Marines stop the Japanese all by themselves? Of course not; other countries (including ANZAC forces) were also major players in stopping the Japanese. Was it still a great PR victory for the Marines? You bet your ass it was. Like the sailor says at the end of Part Two, everyone back home (and in Australia) new about Guadalcanal and the 1st MarDiv.

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn

I won't comment on the sports thing (mostly because I don't really get what you're talking about), but the reason Guadalcanal was called the "Battle for Australia" was because the Battle of Guadalcanal (and the entire Solomon Islands campaign, really) stopped the Japanese from moving southward, so while they did attack Australia, they weren't able to launch a full-on invasion, which they eventually would have if given the chance.

Now, did the Marines stop the Japanese all by themselves? Of course not; other countries (including ANZAC forces) were also major players in stopping the Japanese. Was it still a great PR victory for the Marines? You bet your ass it was. Like the sailor says at the end of Part Two, everyone back home (and in Australia) new about Guadalcanal and the 1st MarDiv.

Yeah but see the thing is, Japan as part of Operation FS never plan to invade Australia. They knew it was fucking impossible and where would they get the resources and manpower? They're plan was not to invade anyway, they just wanted to isolate the Australians from the US by invading through the Solomons and hope for a treaty.

As for NRL, the Americans now play Rugby League. Odd, I don't recall Phillips and Sledge playing Rugby in America. Nor it ever being popular anyway.

[Nappy Hared Azn]

Originally Posted by NinjaYali

Yeah but see the thing is, Japan as part of Operation FS never plan to invade Australia. They knew it was fucking impossible and where would they get the resources and manpower? They're plan was not to invade anyway, they just wanted to isolate the Australians from the US by invading through the Solomons and hope for a treaty.

I probably should have been clearer in my post. While we know now that the Japanese never planned to invade Australia, we didn't know that back then. Any be "we," of course, I'm referring to the average civilian (who would have considered the 1st MarDiv to be the "rescuers of Australia," or whatever). Given Japan's goals in terms of domination of the Pacific and the incidents where Japan did attack Australia, it's not very hard to assume that the Japanese could come knocking on your doorstep any day. Once again, it was a great PR victory.

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn

I probably should have been clearer in my post. While we know now that the Japanese never planned to invade Australia, we didn't know that back then. Any be "we," of course, I'm referring to the average civilian (who would have considered the 1st MarDiv to be the "rescuers of Australia," or whatever). Given Japan's goals in terms of domination of the Pacific and the incidents where Japan did attack Australia, it's not very hard to assume that the Japanese could come knocking on your doorstep any day. Once again, it was a great PR victory.

Emphasis on 'back then'

Right now, we have a 21st century channel advertising a show that despite being set in 1940s is made in the 21st century. And right now, I'm rather pissed that historiographically speaking, there's still this big misconception going around that the Imperial Japs at the time decided they wanted to invade Australia. Perhaps Guadacanal did save Australia's ass if nothing else from getting bombed and raided but I highly doubt the whole Pacific War can just come down to 'War for Australia.'

Um...yep!! The Marines fought in Iwo Jima...TO SAVE OSUTORARIA!!
Peleliu? SAVE OSUTORARIA!! Okinawa? AMERIKA COMING TO SAVE OSUTORARIA!!

Hmm, I'm probably one of the few Australians more annoyed about the over-emphasis on the fairly non-existent Aussie element.

Anyway, watched episode 1-2 just then. The ads for episode 3...I'm wondering about the over emphasis on romance and just for one episode of the US Marines winding down, Channel 7 has gone into masturbatory mode with emphasis on 'The Pacific come to omg AUSTRALIA!!'

[Nappy Hared Azn]

So, let me get this straight. You're pissed off because an American production about Americans is emphasizing America's involvement in the war while leaving out non Americans? How dare they?

But seriously, from what I've read about your posts, your main beef with this series seems to be that it's about "A" when you want it to be about "B."

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn

So, let me get this straight. You're pissed off because an American production about Americans is emphasizing America's involvement in the war while leaving out non Americans? How dare they?

But seriously, from what I've read about your posts, your main beef with this series seems to be that it's about "A" when you want it to be about "B."

No!

I'm pissed off that the Australian channel is over-emphasising the Australian aspect in a show supposed to be about American Marines

[Nappy Hared Azn]

Oh, my bad. I thought you were complaining about the exact opposite.

Well, it only makes sense for them to emphasize the Australian aspect for an Australian audience, right? I mean, how many Americans do you think would be interested in watching a show or movie about ANZAC's involvement in the war, as opposed to America's involvement?

[NinjaYali]

Originally Posted by Nappy Hared Azn

Oh, my bad. I thought you were complaining about the exact opposite.

Well, it only makes sense for them to emphasize the Australian aspect for an Australian audience, right? I mean, how many Americans do you think would be interested in watching a show or movie about ANZAC's involvement in the war, as opposed to America's involvement?

It makes sense commercial wise.

But it doesn't make sense to me having read the history of the Marines.

[Nappy Hared Azn]

I'd say that Part Six is the best episode yet. It really drives home the "war is hell" aspect of the show.

[Roger Rambo]

Sledgehammers Gunny Haney is completely nuts.

"WOLF!"


Even the way he bathes is terrifying.

Spoiler for Haney:

About a dozen naked, soapy replacements, including myself, stared in wide-eyed amazement and shuddered as Haney held his genitals in his left hand while scrubbing them with a GI brush the way one buffs a shoe. When you consider that the GI brush had stiff, tough, split-fiber bristles embedded in a stout wooden handle and was designed to scrub heavy canvas 782 (web) gear, dungarees, and even floors, Haney's method of bathing becomes truly impressive.

[Nappy Hared Azn]

I'm pretty sure he said "WOOF!"

[Roger Rambo]

Well, the Pacific has come to a close. I have to say it was a pretty wild and heavy ride...especially that episode set on Okinawa. It was good to see that Sledgehammer managed to avoid completely becoming sucked in by everything that was happening around him.

I will say that Leckie was definitely a devious and glorious bastards this episode. I will say that the Marines dress blues put other service members at a significant disadvantage when it comes to competition during courtships.

Also...

"Wanna know why I fought?"

Spoiler:

For Television!

[Nappy Hared Azn]

Yeah, I love Leckie. Helmet for My Pillow was a really great read.

[MrTerrorist]

Finally saw the series. Episode 9 was very brutal and was disturbing to see Sledgehammer almost "losing it" with his "Kill em All" attitude but thankfully he went back to normal after finding and comforting that dying Okinawan woman. (I almost thought he & Snafu were going to shoot the woman's baby but thankfully they didn't and got a "What the Hell Hero" talk from another marine for pointing their guns on the baby.)

Speaking of Snafu, My God is he disturbing. Not only he acts creepy(digging for gold in the mouths of dying Japanese soldiers, his morbid sense of humour, etc) but he looks creepy too (The man looks like a dead man for goodness sake!) Yet i'm still fascinated by him.

PS: I still can't believe the actor playing Sledgehammer is played by none other than that kid from Jurassic Park.