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Old 2010-11-09, 03:02   Link #441
winkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I know many people that will tell you that the main human characteristics are jalousy,greed and egoism.
Yes, but Man has both a dark and a light side.

What I am suggesting is Ika-chan is embodying the light side. The characteristics that we would expect of others and of ourselves. Unless you feel that every one of us on this board right now operates solely on motivations of jealousy, greed and egotism?

Quote:
And isn't it funny?
There's lots of other comedies where caracters get "abused" like that (first other one that comes to mind is chiyo in azumanga daioh),and it's just that fun,there's no greater message behind it
It was funny... until I realized that Chizuru cut Ika-chan's appendages, which are more analogous to a person's arms, than a person's hair. And then I was a bit appalled.

I don't recall similar situations in A! where Chiyo-chan was forced to work and was abused by her classmates. In that series, the gags were all about the girls themselves and the stupid silly things highschool kids do.

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She's a squid,the sea is right next door,there's plenty of food there,she obviously was able to eat on her own before she came
Except they told her to stay in the place and don't leave until sun up.
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Old 2010-11-09, 03:39   Link #442
drobertbaker
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Hey, you're good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
But I believe humans have virtue, compassion and emotion. Things that Ika-chan represent, despite not actually being human.
I don't recall her demonstrating either virtue or compassion, other than for the dead paper hat, one of her own kind.
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Originally Posted by winkel View Post
As I mentioned, a child's fantasy. Working at a day care, I have children play pretend they are evil supervillains or superheroes saving/destroying the world. They don't turn up at the end of the day to become the next world dictator
A child playing at driving a car by driving a real car is gonna end up in a world of trouble.
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Originally Posted by winkel View Post
I'm actually slightly disturbed by you and other posters here are quick to suggest that Ika-chan's behavior is due to factors such as mental retardation....Ika-chan may be a trouble child, but she's in no way suggestive of deficiencies....Or are we supposed to be understanding, repetitive, encouraging in such situations, having the compassion to understand the situation of the child and the patience to teach and lead as many times as needed without becoming frustrated and abandoning them?
We don't know what she is, other than a Squid Girl. And I hope we don't get a more detailed definition.

You choose to see her as a human child. Your view assumes she is in the process of developing into something else, something better, and should be nurtured, taught, and assisted in her development.

I choose to see her as another species. In my view, a Squid Girl is all she will ever be. She is stupid, not retarded, not deficient, not developing. She is a Squid Girl. Squid Girls are stupid. No matter how kind, patient, and understanding you are, your dog will never learn to read.
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Originally Posted by winkel View Post
The family has abused her physically with the constant punches and kicks and tackles. Chizuru had pretty much mutilated Ika-chan's appendages the one time she let her dark side loose
There are no constant punches and kicks and tackles. They have only laid hands on her on self-defense and training (bad dog!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
She had no access to food at all. A reasonable person would at least put a portion out to leave for her over the night. All they did was lock up the fridge and expect her to be satisfied with the mind-droning device known as the TV until morning when then came to use her again.
I never had a portion left out for me over the night. I was told to be quiet and go to sleep. And no TV. The cat though did have food left out and got to watch as much TV as it wanted.
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Originally Posted by winkel View Post
The other girl who lives in the mansion constantly molests Ika-chan. It's shown in numerous examples. And she even makes grand fantasies in her mind to complement her physical manifestations.
She has never laid a hand on Ika.
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Originally Posted by winkel View Post
I never knew one played with babies by putting collars on them like slaves and making them act like dogs, verbally abusing them and putting them down, and abusing their abilities.
Ika wanted to be treated the way the dog was, and they demonstrated that that was inappropriate for her, using simple concepts she could understand. The same way they had to show the benighted creature that she was not an alien.
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Originally Posted by winkel View Post
And btw, while I typed this, my screen has become like this:
I think you downloaded quasar_z's squid virus. Maybe he can tell you how to get rid of it.
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Last edited by drobertbaker; 2010-11-09 at 03:56.
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Old 2010-11-09, 03:59   Link #443
winkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
Hey, you're good!I don't recall her demonstrating either virtue or compassion, other than for the dead paper hat, one of her own kind.
She at least does the right thing when she needs to. And her attitude towards Takeru also lend to her as being a good girl.

I don't expect her to be a paragon of morality here, but she to me displays the right attitude and outlook for a good human being. Aside from a few childish propensities.

Quote:
You choose to see her as a human child. Your view assumes she is in the process of developing into something else, something better, and should be nurtured, taught, and assisted in her development.
Isn't that how one should first take a sentient being that looks like and has the mannerisms of a 10-year old girl?

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I choose to see her as another species. In my view, a Squid Girl is all she will ever be. She is stupid, not retarded, not deficient, not developing. She is a Squid Girl. Squid Girls are stupid.
That's pretty harsh. It's pretty hard to readily make such an assumption. She's broken the convention of what a typical squid is like already, how are we to know what her limits are? Squids are pretty intelligent anyways, so I've heard!

I mean, I get the comedic tactic of Playing the Fool, but just having her be her goofy self would have probably sufficed. The way the series makes a joke out of abusing her at her expensive is not something I'm comfortable with.

Quote:
There are no constant punches and kicks and tackles.
The red haired girl loves to punch her on the head and kick her often as a means of correctional punishment.

Quote:
She has never laid a hand on Ika.
She put her in all of those cosplay costumes, not to mention all of those groping attacks.

Quote:
Ika wanted to be treated the way the dog was, and they demonstrated that that was inappropriate for her, using simple concepts she could understand. The same way they had to show the benighted creature that she was not an alien.
She displayed the classic modality of a jealous child competing for attention. The normal response to that is to reassure and give the child equal attention. Of course Chizuru, being a demented person, took it literally as an excuse to play her like a dog.

I'd like to think that should I come across a sentient being that can communicate with me, one of the things I'd not want to do is put them in a situation where I am able to assert myself as master and them as subjugated.




Quote:
Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
I think you downloaded quasar_z's squid virus. Maybe he can tell you how to get rid of it.
It's funny watching them all multiplying every few minutes though. I just hope they won't flood the screen until after I finish my report. ^^
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Old 2010-11-09, 04:16   Link #444
drobertbaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
The way the series makes a joke out of abusing her at her expensive is not something I'm comfortable with.
Well that's the bottom line. It's undeniable and you've articulated it very well. I hope you can nevertheless get some enjoyment out of this series.
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Old 2010-11-09, 04:36   Link #445
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
Yes, but Man has both a dark and a light side.

What I am suggesting is Ika-chan is embodying the light side. The characteristics that we would expect of others and of ourselves. Unless you feel that every one of us on this board right now operates solely on motivations of jealousy, greed and egotism?
Well like you I believe people have both a light and dark side,I didn't express myself well enough,I meant that jealousy,greed,egotism are also human traits so anyone that displays those traits prominantly isn't "less human" than someone who doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
It was funny... until I realized that Chizuru cut Ika-chan's appendages, which are more analogous to a person's arms, than a person's hair. And then I was a bit appalled.
Well she didn't seem in any pain and they've grown back,right?So I still see it more like hair than arm or leg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
I don't recall similar situations in A! where Chiyo-chan was forced to work and was abused by her classmates. In that series, the gags were all about the girls themselves and the stupid silly things highschool kids do.
I remember chiyo almost drowning while adult guardians were too busy arguing to take care of her.A teacher having fun pushing her down and making her fall while she was in a penguin costume and watching her fail to get back up , all because she finds it cute.
And tomo hit chiyo quite a few times,grabbed her pigtails and always had fun trying to traumatize her.
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Old 2010-11-09, 07:49   Link #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I am surprised that some people take this show so seriously. While they have very valid points (I don't like the way Ika-Chan being treated either), remember that Ika-Chan is on the land, working in Lemon on her own free will. She can totally go back to the ocean and no one can stop her. As of food and locked fridge? Why don't she go back to the ocean and get some live shrimp? I bet it taste much better than whatever it is in the fridge. Besides, you cannot really fault Chizuru for locking up the fridge. Given Ika-Chan's appetite for shrimp, Chizuru might as well take shrimp off the menu if she left the fridge unlocked as Ika-Chan will surely eat them all.

Actually I have a question, is Ika-Chan an actual squid which take human form when she is on the land (kinda like those thousand years old fox in Japan legend, those fox can take human shape but their original/ most relaxed form is still a fox), or is she born Ika-Musume (with arms and legs)?
The one thing I might disagree about is being able to just go back to the ocean any time she wants. In her position would honestly be afraid of Chizuru hunting her down if she tried to leave without having paid for the repairs first. I mean considering that Chizuru is one heck of a monster in terms of power I wouldn't feel safe even being under the sea and on the other side of the world .

Locking up the fridge is fine. But that still doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to just leave out some food and then lock up the rest. Not wanting her to eat everything doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to eat anything.
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Old 2010-11-09, 08:43   Link #447
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Yeah, and Ika-chan is also playing her part as protector of the sea (aka "clean the beach") She can't go back until she finish or simply give up her original plan...
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Old 2010-11-09, 13:07   Link #448
Nerroth
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I seriously hope we see more characters emerge from the sea; if only to give a point of comparison to Ika herself. (Especially if they can introduce an older brother/sister type, to put things into a sharper focus from the ocean-dwellers' point of view.)

It probably won't happen, but fingers crossed.


So far as considering her worth as an individual, I'd sooner err towards the view held by a certain non-biological extra-terrestrial: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

She might be a little carried away with the 'shinryaku!' idea, but I don't think she'd stick with it if she was offered an alternative which addressed the issue of pollution in the oceans....

...and ensured a steady supply of shrimp.
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Old 2010-11-09, 14:34   Link #449
Seihai
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Ika-chan is a genius. I bet she invaded Index' head and snatched some 130k grimoires worth of knowledge. Best segment here, Ika-chan ruled!~de geso
edit: When she said she manipulated the wave I thought "sea intercept! O_O "
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Old 2010-11-09, 17:08   Link #450
Zeroryoko1974
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Not me, kuma. I only wish it was on twice a week.
Haha, I wonder how well Kuma matches up with DESU and degeso
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Old 2010-11-09, 21:05   Link #451
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Old 2010-11-09, 22:44   Link #452
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
The one thing I might disagree about is being able to just go back to the ocean any time she wants. In her position would honestly be afraid of Chizuru hunting her down if she tried to leave without having paid for the repairs first. I mean considering that Chizuru is one heck of a monster in terms of power I wouldn't feel safe even being under the sea and on the other side of the world .
Ika broke a section of a wooden wall not a priceless antique. The wallet episode shows that the repair fee could be settled with a mere 10000 yen. Considering the length of time she worked at the restaurant, she probably have already earned a large part of the repair fee if not all of it. She also shows no concern about the debt at all.
She continues to stay there because she wanted to. She actually thinks of them like a family of sorts. She was happy when Eiko resisted the alien researcher effort to take her away.
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Old 2010-11-10, 03:04   Link #453
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Old 2010-11-10, 05:13   Link #454
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the full OP music video...... what?

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Old 2010-11-10, 06:49   Link #455
FlavorOfLife
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Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
Ika broke a section of a wooden wall not a priceless antique. The wallet episode shows that the repair fee could be settled with a mere 10000 yen. Considering the length of time she worked at the restaurant, she probably have already earned a large part of the repair fee if not all of it. She also shows no concern about the debt at all.
She continues to stay there because she wanted to. She actually thinks of them like a family of sorts. She was happy when Eiko resisted the alien researcher effort to take her away.
From what was said, the 10000 yen would not cover the cost but would make a big dent. Probably > 50%. Her salary probably consists of about 100 yen (as she complains of this in the manga and also in the anime). I'm guessing most of her salary goes to accomodation (living at lemon) and food (hence her additional trips to the fridge is a no-no).

In the manga after they get closer, Ika moves in with the family in the house behind lemon (the manga is more explcit in showing the relationship developing with Chizuru remarking on it).

After that, its is like you mentioned, the hole isn't really an issue any more. Given her ability in one chapter of the manga, that hole would have been patched up easily
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Old 2010-11-10, 13:14   Link #456
drobertbaker
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Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
the full OP music video...... what?
Oh my God, it's Koike Masaya!
What happened to MOSAIC.WAV?
Can this little cosplayer / costume maker replace Momoi and recreate UNDER17?
She actually calls herself Usagi!

I'll be OK ... I just need a few minutes ... I'll be OK.
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Old 2010-11-10, 13:20   Link #457
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Before this, ULTRA-PRISM's only other song was the ED to a visual novel, so this is a pretty big step forward. She's going for a chance at success as much as everyone else.
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Old 2010-11-10, 13:36   Link #458
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Yeah, I guess so. It's a formula that has been successful. He certainly knows how it works and from the sound of the song, he still has the magic.

Apparently she wrote the lyrics. But she looks like such a plug-in to the role. She even uses Momoi's wrist-crossing move from Tenbatsu. She's quite clumsy and wooden.

But then it took Momoi many years to develop her current slickness. What made her the best was her sincerity, energy, and drive.

I'll be OK.
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Old 2010-11-10, 16:47   Link #459
ID555
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THe whole math segment was hilarious. Nice to see they're aware of the cephalopod intelligence theory
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Old 2010-11-10, 19:32   Link #460
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the full OP music video...... what?
And I raise you 4 of these guys!


The whole world is Squid Girl CRAZY!
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