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larethian · 2024-06-02, 20:38

After playing for a while, I remembered why I stopped playing Genshin. At my age, I just don't enjoy open world exploration and terrain traversal, as it doesn't feel very rewarding for me personally.

I'll still try to hang on until Yinlin and see. But I frankly doubt I will continue playing due to its open world nature

I think compared to PGR and Nikke, Wuwa actually has a possibility of bombing, because it's such a high budget game and if the revenue can't hit certain targets, it might just totally bomb. All these issues likely due to poor project management and it's a shame since the story boss fights are pretty enjoyable.

patnam · 2024-06-03, 20:56

I had played Genshin for too long, I forgot when playing WW, there is no shield for the characters during battle, and I'm not convenient to this battle without having shield...

**Klashikari** · 2024-06-04, 05:26

The game needed at least 6 months in the oven for more polish, especially given how messy it is with obvious oversight beyond just performance issues. I still can't believe they assigned a button for the chat menu for the controller scheme, but not the world map. In a open world game.
And after grinding the data base level to 16, I'm probably going to hate the echo system more than the artifact/relic system from genshin/hsr, which was already pretty obnoxious to begin with.

belatkuro · 2024-06-04, 06:22

And instead of delaying it to fix the bugs, they accelerate the schedule for 1.1. Probably because damned if they do, damned if they don't. Delaying will just make them lose players even more, but accelerating leaves them with less time to fix things for the current and next version.

I already hate the echo farming. I've been farming Electro DMG Elite enemies for Calcharo for days but it's either wrong sonata set or wrong main stat. Only been using the tracker to find enemies and when you hunt all of them, you can't track them anymore until the next day reset. Farming Calamity or Overlord Echoes are easier since they respawn immediately. Already got the right main stat Crit rate for Calcharo.
I'm already at Data Bank lvl 18 at UL35. Waiting for UL40/SOL3 Phase 5 rank to unlock the last 2 levels is gonna take a long time.

larethian · 2024-06-04, 09:20

Apparently, their release license expires end October this year. And letting it lapse requires reapplication and reapproval (at least within China) which could take a year or longer. Poor project management and planning and underestimation and possibly other factors likely led to this.

felix · 2024-06-07, 14:34

I'll start with the positive...

Game feels good, character mechanics are great (albeit yappy descriptions and strange wording abound) everyone is unique and, as per expectations for kuro, they know how to make cool-to-play characters. Thankfully they didnt port their ping system from PGR, made everything a tad slower then PGR and also made parry mechanics (which are in both games) actually something ye' normal mortals can use not just insane people who study every single frame of a boss can use.

Game traversal is good too. Usual tools there, treasure detector is available early on and the world isnt too stupid or incoherent in terms of why things are there. Personally really happy, especially with the vaulting, the vaulting is fantastic, no rock, cat, ledge or bush shall stop me!

The pretty nice...

Damn the female Rover is hot. And she's not just good looking she's also strong as hell even compared to the 5stars.

Being able to just roam around and things you kill becoming your equipment, monster hunter style (sort-of-ish), is probably the correct way to go about equipment in a game thats made to be open world; instead of "go live in this loot dimension small cave and stay there for weeks till you get what you want; want something else? go into this totally-not-the-same different colored cave over here, see you in a month"

You don't need stats to beat content. Not a lot. Specifically you can just beat everything with skill from early on and even lv90s you can topple with a bit of food and lv60 characters (ie. UL30ish).

At the same time chaotic mass encounters you do probably need either really good strategy for the encounter or just defensive abilities (including some DEF% HP% if you accidentally get those as subs) since you cant avoid getting scratched when there's 3 things firing at you, 2 unstaggarable things running at you and 2-3 other random other mobs aoe'ing randomly or doing god knows what. This is I think good for the game, not all fights should be 1-vs-1 boss fights.

The "tower" in this game is designed to let you just use whatever you want whenever and doesnt require full restart but does use a stamina system so you dont use the same character everywhere and instead have some incentive to use other characters, which is great for roster diversity. You can also replay stages with different characters and it will refund stamina to the characters that previously cleared the stage.

The Bad...

I'm Union Level 41. I assume they expect (most-)people in 1.0 to be between Union Level 30-35 going by their content pace and difficulty currently, so I'm a bit further along.

Their "middle game" economy needs a lot of work. Their equipment system (echoes) in particular needs work, but other resources need work too. It's not too bad how they designed it but basically what happens is you end up in this funny situation where you get endgame (5star in this case) echoes at what normally you'd expect to have in other games "4star here and there with mostly 3stars" and because of this you end up with "edngame costs" in part of the game where you only have access to "early game resource generation".

So everything is 10x more expensive then it feels like it should be, and using your stamina resource (called waveplates in this) feels like it's giving you 10x less resources then you should be getting.

Just to put it into perspective I think a single run of the equipment upgrade material domain gives you just 15 of just one of the key resources (tuners) for equivalent of 6 hours of stamina and you need 250 tuners per character if we dont even account for "randomness", so you probably need more like 250-to-1000 per character or 100-400 hours if you were to actually farm them with stamina (unless I'm miscalculating). I'm sure they'll be given out in events and various modes as a "prize" often enough so it's not that bad but its pretty bad feeling system. And then there's the credit cost and other costs to it, not to mention the drop chance being terrible for 2 of the key pieces.

So it's no surprise at all that they addressed in one of their dev notes that they're going to change things in 1.1 specifically around this.

They also said they're increasing the monster spawn rate so it's not such a chore to hunt down all the cost3 and so forth and various other things.

The Ugly...

Their localization is ass in all languages, including jp (outside of VO); and don't just mean the weapon incident, but from my understanding everything is just as awful as it is in english with chinajapaneze kind of language used.

I read wuxia/xianxia novels and play wuxia style games. Or in normal speak, chinese inspired martial arts / immortal / cultivation stories. The story they went with, and I dont know if they took some heavy inspiration since literally see some parts from some stories I know, is filled with a ton of wuxia/xianxia tropes, themes and story beats.

Ye' average western audience ain't going to understand any of that bruh.

It's not suprising the english dub sucks. Forget VO direction/director, doubt they had one at all. How do you even find one that knows how wuxia/xianxia story characters are suppose to sound; language barrier doesn't help either. Not saying it cant be done there's plenty of audio books like Cradle that do it properly, but it's not common at all. The entire thing feels like they were kind of told how to do "wuxia VO" but they all got "one take" and thats that. The Rover VO and Yangyang VO is particulary hilarious and attrocious, often times tone deaf. It doesnt help they all were allegedly forced to do a american accent, even though it's a UK based voiceover studio.

The CN VO works since they're probably familiar with the genre and tropes. The JP VO works since they do their JP thing which is to just ignore whatever else and just do the regular voices they do all the time. KR VO works for same reason as JP, just ignore the content and do mmo voices, and they're also familiar with the tropes somewhat as a lot of the reincarnation novels they like are not much different, just grittier. So that just leaves english as the clueless one.

IMO they should just have released with out EN VO, it's just bad for everyone as it is now.

In terms of actual storytelling itself. It's bad even by Wuxia/Xianxia standards. Some parts are ok, but it's really terrible in setting up "who the $@#$ is rover?" Lore wise it's fine and has same gimmicks as stories like Absolute Resonance by relatively popular authors over there, so foundation wise it's solid, probably (depends on if they dont mess it up).

Like many other games the devs dont have any appreciation that you can't just HAVE an amenesiac/mesiah/no-voice character for no reasons at all. To have one the story has to setup into it, and of course this doesnt really do that. As an example the entire story would make much more sense if Rover was some out of region expert with a secret identity they cant share with anyone that only the big shots and villains know, and a hidden agenda that's not revealed to us the players, instead of "Amnesiac Stoneface Budha" character nonsense.

Hopefully the talk about them hiring a lot of writers isn't just hot air.

The Future...

Currently they seem to have made it past at least the worst of the bugs, though the rate they are hotfixing and patching this game is pretty overwhelming (daily, sometimes multiple times

). It's pretty funny tbh.

They've also aknoweledged a lot of player concerns and even fixed things they could fix immediatly so pretty happy with that. This includes some of the localization, skip button, progress % errors and so on. One concerning thing is that CBT to CBT2 to Launch they've done similar and when it comes to story at least in all honesty they OVER tuned based on feedback.

Spoiler for CBT-to-Launch Story Changes:

In terms of future content coming up... (drip marketing I think already dropped it)

Spoiler for talking about 1.1 banners and related content:

Liddo-kun · 2024-06-10, 04:45

question for the pc users who install this game on more than one pc.

have three pc here at home. The way I spread Star Rail and Genshin is download it on one pc.. then after the game is installed, I just copy the entire game directory to a flash drive. For example, the Star Rail game directory where the files are installed. I transfer the game on another pc, simply by copying all the files from the flash drive onto the target pc. And the game works fine. No need to download and install again.

is this method possible for Wuthering Waves? If possible, I want to download this 30 gigabyte game only once. And not three times.

felix · 2024-06-12, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

question for the pc users who install this game on more than one pc.

have three pc here at home. The way I spread Star Rail and Genshin is download it on one pc.. then after the game is installed, I just copy the entire game directory to a flash drive. For example, the Star Rail game directory where the files are installed. I transfer the game on another pc, simply by copying all the files from the flash drive onto the target pc. And the game works fine. No need to download and install again.

is this method possible for Wuthering Waves? If possible, I want to download this 30 gigabyte game only once. And not three times.

Very likely.

2024-06-04, 05:26	Link #23
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	The game needed at least 6 months in the oven for more polish, especially given how messy it is with obvious oversight beyond just performance issues. I still can't believe they assigned a button for the chat menu for the controller scheme, but not the world map. In a open world game. And after grinding the data base level to 16, I'm probably going to hate the echo system more than the artifact/relic system from genshin/hsr, which was already pretty obnoxious to begin with. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2024-06-07, 14:34	Link #26
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	I'll start with the positive... Game feels good, character mechanics are great (albeit yappy descriptions and strange wording abound) everyone is unique and, as per expectations for kuro, they know how to make cool-to-play characters. Thankfully they didnt port their ping system from PGR, made everything a tad slower then PGR and also made parry mechanics (which are in both games) actually something ye' normal mortals can use not just insane people who study every single frame of a boss can use. Game traversal is good too. Usual tools there, treasure detector is available early on and the world isnt too stupid or incoherent in terms of why things are there. Personally really happy, especially with the vaulting, the vaulting is fantastic, no rock, cat, ledge or bush shall stop me! The pretty nice... Damn the female Rover is hot. And she's not just good looking she's also strong as hell even compared to the 5stars. Being able to just roam around and things you kill becoming your equipment, monster hunter style (sort-of-ish), is probably the correct way to go about equipment in a game thats made to be open world; instead of "go live in this loot dimension small cave and stay there for weeks till you get what you want; want something else? go into this totally-not-the-same different colored cave over here, see you in a month" You don't need stats to beat content. Not a lot. Specifically you can just beat everything with skill from early on and even lv90s you can topple with a bit of food and lv60 characters (ie. UL30ish). At the same time chaotic mass encounters you do probably need either really good strategy for the encounter or just defensive abilities (including some DEF% HP% if you accidentally get those as subs) since you cant avoid getting scratched when there's 3 things firing at you, 2 unstaggarable things running at you and 2-3 other random other mobs aoe'ing randomly or doing god knows what. This is I think good for the game, not all fights should be 1-vs-1 boss fights. The "tower" in this game is designed to let you just use whatever you want whenever and doesnt require full restart but does use a stamina system so you dont use the same character everywhere and instead have some incentive to use other characters, which is great for roster diversity. You can also replay stages with different characters and it will refund stamina to the characters that previously cleared the stage. The Bad... I'm Union Level 41. I assume they expect (most-)people in 1.0 to be between Union Level 30-35 going by their content pace and difficulty currently, so I'm a bit further along. Their "middle game" economy needs a lot of work. Their equipment system (echoes) in particular needs work, but other resources need work too. It's not too bad how they designed it but basically what happens is you end up in this funny situation where you get endgame (5star in this case) echoes at what normally you'd expect to have in other games "4star here and there with mostly 3stars" and because of this you end up with "edngame costs" in part of the game where you only have access to "early game resource generation". So everything is 10x more expensive then it feels like it should be, and using your stamina resource (called waveplates in this) feels like it's giving you 10x less resources then you should be getting. Just to put it into perspective I think a single run of the equipment upgrade material domain gives you just 15 of just one of the key resources (tuners) for equivalent of 6 hours of stamina and you need 250 tuners per character if we dont even account for "randomness", so you probably need more like 250-to-1000 per character or 100-400 hours if you were to actually farm them with stamina (unless I'm miscalculating). I'm sure they'll be given out in events and various modes as a "prize" often enough so it's not that bad but its pretty bad feeling system. And then there's the credit cost and other costs to it, not to mention the drop chance being terrible for 2 of the key pieces. So it's no surprise at all that they addressed in one of their dev notes that they're going to change things in 1.1 specifically around this. They also said they're increasing the monster spawn rate so it's not such a chore to hunt down all the cost3 and so forth and various other things. The Ugly... Their localization is ass in all languages, including jp (outside of VO); and don't just mean the weapon incident, but from my understanding everything is just as awful as it is in english with chinajapaneze kind of language used. I read wuxia/xianxia novels and play wuxia style games. Or in normal speak, chinese inspired martial arts / immortal / cultivation stories. The story they went with, and I dont know if they took some heavy inspiration since literally see some parts from some stories I know, is filled with a ton of wuxia/xianxia tropes, themes and story beats. Ye' average western audience ain't going to understand any of that bruh. It's not suprising the english dub sucks. Forget VO direction/director, doubt they had one at all. How do you even find one that knows how wuxia/xianxia story characters are suppose to sound; language barrier doesn't help either. Not saying it cant be done there's plenty of audio books like Cradle that do it properly, but it's not common at all. The entire thing feels like they were kind of told how to do "wuxia VO" but they all got "one take" and thats that. The Rover VO and Yangyang VO is particulary hilarious and attrocious, often times tone deaf. It doesnt help they all were allegedly forced to do a american accent, even though it's a UK based voiceover studio. The CN VO works since they're probably familiar with the genre and tropes. The JP VO works since they do their JP thing which is to just ignore whatever else and just do the regular voices they do all the time. KR VO works for same reason as JP, just ignore the content and do mmo voices, and they're also familiar with the tropes somewhat as a lot of the reincarnation novels they like are not much different, just grittier. So that just leaves english as the clueless one. IMO they should just have released with out EN VO, it's just bad for everyone as it is now. In terms of actual storytelling itself. It's bad even by Wuxia/Xianxia standards. Some parts are ok, but it's really terrible in setting up "who the $@#$ is rover?" Lore wise it's fine and has same gimmicks as stories like Absolute Resonance by relatively popular authors over there, so foundation wise it's solid, probably (depends on if they dont mess it up). Like many other games the devs dont have any appreciation that you can't just HAVE an amenesiac/mesiah/no-voice character for no reasons at all. To have one the story has to setup into it, and of course this doesnt really do that. As an example the entire story would make much more sense if Rover was some out of region expert with a secret identity they cant share with anyone that only the big shots and villains know, and a hidden agenda that's not revealed to us the players, instead of "Amnesiac Stoneface Budha" character nonsense. Hopefully the talk about them hiring a lot of writers isn't just hot air. The Future... Currently they seem to have made it past at least the worst of the bugs, though the rate they are hotfixing and patching this game is pretty overwhelming (daily, sometimes multiple times ). It's pretty funny tbh. They've also aknoweledged a lot of player concerns and even fixed things they could fix immediatly so pretty happy with that. This includes some of the localization, skip button, progress % errors and so on. One concerning thing is that CBT to CBT2 to Launch they've done similar and when it comes to story at least in all honesty they OVER tuned based on feedback. Spoiler for CBT-to-Launch Story Changes: Originally the story was dark. Nobody trusts rover in the town. You even lose against crownless, because you're of course weak bitch that dropped from the sky and the girls who find you are village n00bs. People complained that even after rover helps the town everyone still treats rover too poorly. Unfortunately this got overtuned to "everyone LOVES rover and kisses the ground they walk on" There's various other changes and cuts. Nobody hates that Lingyang isn't 90% furry boy anymore though. In terms of future content coming up... (drip marketing I think already dropped it) Spoiler for talking about 1.1 banners and related content: Seems for 1.1 we get two wuxia as all hell characters (as if current ones werent enough), one flying immortal style character complete with flying sword, her own dragon, and fanciest animations I've seen in a while and another pheonix style character, also flying around like crazy. Currently it made it to no.1 on jp mobile apps just with Yinlin (current banner witch) but when those drop I wont even be surprised if I heard they made their entire development cost back just with 1.1 alone, since as some have mentioned, those designs are powercreeping other gacha game designs with how good they look. Assuming they do good by their promise to fix resources think players will forgive and forget, especially since it's only people who went hard on the game that have issues right now in 1.0; everyone casual is doing fine. __________________

2024-06-10, 04:45	Link #27
Liddo-kun is this so? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gradius Home World	question for the pc users who install this game on more than one pc. have three pc here at home. The way I spread Star Rail and Genshin is download it on one pc.. then after the game is installed, I just copy the entire game directory to a flash drive. For example, the Star Rail game directory where the files are installed. I transfer the game on another pc, simply by copying all the files from the flash drive onto the target pc. And the game works fine. No need to download and install again. is this method possible for Wuthering Waves? If possible, I want to download this 30 gigabyte game only once. And not three times. __________________ Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi / MTGNexus - Magic Art Gallery / AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ tournament / Cool Japan Festival 2015

2024-06-02, 20:38	Link #21
larethian Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	After playing for a while, I remembered why I stopped playing Genshin. At my age, I just don't enjoy open world exploration and terrain traversal, as it doesn't feel very rewarding for me personally. I'll still try to hang on until Yinlin and see. But I frankly doubt I will continue playing due to its open world nature I think compared to PGR and Nikke, Wuwa actually has a possibility of bombing, because it's such a high budget game and if the revenue can't hit certain targets, it might just totally bomb. All these issues likely due to poor project management and it's a shame since the story boss fights are pretty enjoyable.

2024-06-03, 20:56	Link #22
patnam Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	I had played Genshin for too long, I forgot when playing WW, there is no shield for the characters during battle, and I'm not convenient to this battle without having shield...

2024-06-04, 06:22	Link #24
belatkuro Kuro-chan Join Date: Mar 2012	And instead of delaying it to fix the bugs, they accelerate the schedule for 1.1. Probably because damned if they do, damned if they don't. Delaying will just make them lose players even more, but accelerating leaves them with less time to fix things for the current and next version. I already hate the echo farming. I've been farming Electro DMG Elite enemies for Calcharo for days but it's either wrong sonata set or wrong main stat. Only been using the tracker to find enemies and when you hunt all of them, you can't track them anymore until the next day reset. Farming Calamity or Overlord Echoes are easier since they respawn immediately. Already got the right main stat Crit rate for Calcharo. I'm already at Data Bank lvl 18 at UL35. Waiting for UL40/SOL3 Phase 5 rank to unlock the last 2 levels is gonna take a long time.

2024-06-04, 09:20	Link #25
larethian Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	Apparently, their release license expires end October this year. And letting it lapse requires reapplication and reapproval (at least within China) which could take a year or longer. Poor project management and planning and underestimation and possibly other factors likely led to this.