The Claymore Sword Discussion

[NoSanninWa]

There were some interesting posts in the Claymore TV General Discusion about the claymore sword before we had a forum to discuss the topic. I have copied them to their own thread here so the discussion can be found and continued if people desire.

PS. These next 17 posts can also be found on pages 35-36 of the original thread.

[Zu Ra]

A normal claymore weighs 5.5 lb is 55 inches in length and 42 inch blade . But does Clare or any others use a normal claymore seems like the Broadsword variety of Claymore seeing the length and size. My knowledge is extremly limited in Medieval Weaponery so please do clarify on Clare's Claymore . The one in the picture is a standard Claymore and it does not match Claymores used

[EvilMink]

Clare's sword seems to be more like greatsword i think.

[Kinematics]

Warning: bunch of numbers that probably don't even answer the question.


Well, certainly it's a fantasy variant rather than a 'standard' claymore. It does have a forward-swept crossguard, though the blade doesn't go all the way to the guard.

A rough guesstimate from the start of the OP would put the blade at 6 inches across at the widest point (compared vs fist width), compared to about 2.5 inches for the one in the picture. The hilt looks to be comensurately longer than standard, probably 12-15".

For the length, there are a number of somewhat conflicting factors.

1) Made a quick estimation based on the OP picture of the blade strapped to her back, and on her entrance to Raki's town. If she's 5'6" (66") (a little tall for typical female anime characters, but pretty average for European, which this seems to draw heavily on), figure her shoulder is at 56", 8" clearance from the ground for the blade, and held at a 20 degree angle, that puts the blade's length at about 50" long, and total sword length around 62"+. This is in line with the suggestion that it's closer to a two-handed greatsword than a basic claymore, and the general design supports that as well.

1a) Same thing, but taken from the character illustration on the web site, places blade length at perhaps 48".

2) Raki is about 8" shorter than Clare (see him walking behind her in episode 1), and the statue with the sword is about 6" shorter than Raki, which would put total length at 52" (if we assume 66" for Clare's height). Given that the hilt is at least 12 inches, that puts the blade length at 40".

3) When resting against her sword, I'd only peg its blade length at around 40ish inches -- about 33 inches of blade sticking out of the ground (relative to her 66" height), plus however deep she drove it.

Considering variations that the artists are likely to use just to make things fit nicely, I'd be willing to go with 48" as the blade length.

Accounting for the increase in the volume of metal used for the greater thickness and length (primarily the thickness), it can weigh around 3-7 times as much as a standard claymore (for 16-38 pounds), or 4-6 times as much as a two-handed sword (for 16-48 pounds). My best guess would be in the 25-30 pound range.

We can also run a little calculation using the density formula from the two-handed swords page. Length: 48 inches. Width: at base is 6 inches, tapering off to about 3 inches near the end before suddenly coming to a point; also tapered near hilt; say an average of 4 inches wide. Thickness: appears to be about as thick as the hilt at the center (around 1"), tapering off to edges, but keeping the majority of that thickness along its length; overall average of a bit under half an inch; call it 0.4. Density of 0.284 lb/in^3. Total weight: 22 pounds. Then add in a bit for the hilt and guard to put it around 25 pounds.

I think that would officially qualify as "obscenely heavy", especially for something being swung around with one hand on a regular basis. And while it's fairly close in some aspects to real known swords, there are enough differences that it's at best an approximation.

[EvilMink]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Considering variations that the artists are likely to use just to make things fit nicely, I'd be willing to go with 48" as the blade length.

Accounting for the increase in the volume of metal used for the greater thickness and length (primarily the thickness), it can weigh around 3-7 times as much as a standard claymore (for 16-38 pounds), or 4-6 times as much as a two-handed sword (for 16-48 pounds). My best guess would be in the 25-30 pound range.

Hmm... no offense intended, but your calculations seems to be wrong. To quote from the page i linked earlier (The Weighty Issue of Two-Handed Greatswords):

The two-handed sword was a specialized and effective infantry weapon, and was recognized as such in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Although large, measuring 60-70 in/150-175 cm overall, it was not as hefty as it looked, weighing something of the order of 5-8 lbs/2.3-3.6 kg. In the hands of the Swiss and German infantrymen it was lethal, and its use was considered as special skill, often meriting extra pay.

<...>

Below is a table of measurements from 69 two-handed great swords from the 16th century in the famed Austrian arsenal of Graz (K. Kamniker and P. Krenn, p. 139-152). Note that the average weight is less than 8 pounds at an average length of 67 inches. The weapons in the collection range up to 5 pounds difference in their weight. The lightest weapon, a slender blade, is just over than 3.3 pounds (at roughly 57 inches long) while the heaviest, a large and elaborately hilted piece, is no more than 13 pounds (at about 78 inches a long)

Judging the data from the above mentioned table (it is near to the bottom of the page) it looks like blade <50" should never exceed 6lbs, and this would make it certainly deadly weapon in hands of skilled person.

edit: Just read the table again and it says the lightest 56.9" sword was only 3.3lbs

[IMSabbel]

Way to read a post.
His point was that compared to "real" swords, the one in claymore is depicted as very BROAD and THICK. Both of which increases the weight, of course.
(the 1" he assumed is about 4-5 times thicker than the thickest part of the ones referenced in your article. This alone would lift that 4 pound blade into the 18 region).

And about the practicability of such weapons:
Its fantasy. They are weapons used by half demonic, superstrong warriors. I see no problem in them being very massive. It might even be needed, seeing that they are designed to battle monsters, which might require the sturdiness provided by the inceased crossection.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by EvilMink

Clare's sword seems to be more like greatsword i think.

Very informative post , thank you for sharing it : D

This two articles sum up the initial point brought up. IMSabbel went one step further and nicely illustrated the point

- Killing monsters is easier when thick slices are done hence a thick blade. Also the weight adds to the cut/thrust.

- Longer the blade easier it is for the user to stay away from Yoma who attack you with claws spikes and what not .

[Seska]

Anyway, Clare's sword must be that heavy, that she need her enhanced Muscles to hold it with only one hand. I think, no normal human in Claymore's universe can hold it like her.

Perhaps, you can compare it with a Zweihänder with extra big "Klinge" (don't know the English name for it, sorry)

Short summary: Clare's Youma power is needed to hold it, with one hand like her.

but, like you. I'm not a medieval expert, too.

- Killing monsters is easier when thick slices are done hence a thick blade. Also the weight adds to the cut/thrust.

Hei, demo....

First you need the force to moving the Blade. And when the Sword is stuck in the enemy body... She must call
her Youma extra boost power for it.

Tip: Try swinging a "Tachi" Sword around. If you overdo it, your wrists will hurt the next day and muscles in the underarm part, too.

(I have done it, but with a Katana in Toledo style). Well, like a car. If the sword are in move you don't need that much muscles like in the start. Long live Physics (Mass acceleration)

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by IMSabbel

His point was that compared to "real" swords, the one in claymore is depicted as very BROAD and THICK. Both of which increases the weight, of course.
(the 1" he assumed is about 4-5 times thicker than the thickest part of the ones referenced in your article. This alone would lift that 4 pound blade into the 18 region).

And about the practicability of such weapons:
Its fantasy. They are weapons used by half demonic, superstrong warriors. I see no problem in them being very massive. It might even be needed, seeing that they are designed to battle monsters, which might require the sturdiness provided by the inceased crossection.

Indeed. Don't forget how easily that youma snapped through both Galk's sword and Clare's dagger in the last couple episodes. A 'standard' weapon simply isn't strong enough to hold out against the forces being applied.

[Claymore_Obsessed]

you can see a picture of a real life Claymore sword (like the one used in the anime, not the classic scottish one) here on the official website

months ago, there was also a video showing a guy who had a run for his money trying to stay en guarde with that sword

as you can see, it's 165 cm X 7 Kg
I wonder what's its price, though

[Seska]

I was so free, to put Clare's sword picture on ImageShack

Source for the pics:

Originally Posted by Claymore_Obsessed

you can see a picture of a real life Claymore sword (like the one used in the anime, not the classic scottish one) here on the official website

months ago, there was also a video showing a guy who had a run for his money trying to stay en guarde with that sword

as you can see, it's 165 cm X 7 Kg
I wonder what's its price, though

[Defiled one]

Um..Guys? Do you know something I don´t know? Cause the sword sounds fishy to me. "Creepy X-file music"

[Seska]

more infos, please. What is fishy for you?
The Symbol on the sword it's Clares. But if you saw Episode 02. You will know it.

[Kinematics]

Oh, nice

Ok, it's a bit longer than estimated. 165 cm = 65 in; my guess was a 48" blade + 12" hilt = 60". Not too far off, considering my initial estimate would have put it at 62-65".

7 kg = 15.4 lb, so it's far lighter than estimated, though still a good bit heavier than 'normal' swords. Explained by an overestimate of the central thickness due to thinking that the rounded part at the base of the blade was more flush with the blade itself, when it seems to be more of an external protrusion. Actual central blade thickness is thus probably closer to 2/3" (1.5cm) instead of a full inch.

And now I need to find out where I can find a set of those Teresa + Clare figures

[flick]

Thanks for the picture Claymore_obsessed and seska It's so cool that it just made my jaw drop. 165 is seriously long/tall! How tall is Clare meant to be again because she has to be pretty tall to be able to wield that...
Those figurines do look awesome ^^ I'm not usually into anime figurines but these Claymore ones are something!

[Goofus Maximus]

Where did you find that picture, Seska? Is it on the official Claymore website?

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by Goofus Maximus

Where did you find that picture, Seska? Is it on the official Claymore website?

Yes, it's on the official site. You can see the link one post above his.

[Zu Ra]

Oh I want that Claymore and those Figurines , the Claymore looks really neat : D

Originally Posted by Seska

First you need the force to moving the Blade. And when the Sword is stuck in the enemy body... She must call her Youma extra boost power for it.

I might be wrong here but I think Clare can handle the Claymore two handed perfectly without even borrowing Yoma powers .But as you said when she has to swing her Claymore around with one arm then the problem arises and she has to draw upon her Yoma Powers . ( ep 2 )

[Negativedark]

Acording to a freind of mine who is a sword geek, their were two types of historical swords called Claymores. One of witch was a greatsword. Anyone able to confirm if that was right, or was he mixed up.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by Negativedark

Acording to a freind of mine who is a sword geek, their were two types of historical swords called Claymores. One of witch was a greatsword. Anyone able to confirm if that was right, or was he mixed up.

Your freind is correct . Greatsword was brought up in this discussion . To get a better idea please do refer this post

Originally Posted by EvilMink

Clare's sword seems to be more like greatsword i think.