[Manga] URAHARA Techniques / Bleach Databooks..help

[BleachOD]

I am sorry if this is in the wrong place...but I didn't know where else to place this...

While browsing an unnamed site, that I am a member off. I just happen to be in the Hollow guide and I came across URAHARA Techniques.

I had some questions about the things that were written in it, and I wanted to know if someone might know if the Data Books fully explain Urahara’s Hybrid Techniques

Didn't get much help there Besides they think I am just looking for information to support one of my theories...So they arent taking me seriously, or they just dont know

It says ….

Urahara, a former member of the Gotei 13, Captain of Squad 12, Chief of the Federal Research Bureau, the best Scientist of Sereitei and great Fighter. He is the one who discovered a few of the best Techniques ever known.
We’re here for the Hollows and now, for Uraharas hybrid Technique.

If a Shinigami is able to use rip off the mask in the moment of becoming a Hollow, he is able to become a Hybrid (also called Arrancars). A mixture of a Shinigami and a Hollow. This is happening to Ichigo during the Rescue Arc while trying to regain his ability to use Spiritual Power using the help of Uruhara.
If this is the case a hollow-like personality will exist inside the Shinigami and come out during dangerous situations to prevent the Shinigamis body from dying. The sign of a Hybrid is a Hollow mask which sticks to the Shinigami inside his clothes.

I am assuming they really mean Vizards here...

Also it says…

The Hybrids are able to use a Hollow-like strength combined with the Powers of the Shinigami Zanpakuto (transl.: Soul Slayer), their powers exceed the power of both, Hollow and Shinigami. The only problem is that the Hollows Personality is in a half-hollow state, meaning he is somehow mad, violent and brutal, this personality lacks a heart.

I am assuming they are talking about the Arrancar here

I ask because it also says…

In the Manga there are described also different ways of becoming a hybrid, which are called “Vastoorode”, there you use forbidden spells to become a hybrid.

I must have missed that. Can someone tell me where in the Manga does it state that there are forbidden spells, that can be used to create Hybrids

If Aizen could have use spells to create Hollow/Arrancar/Shinigami Hybrids. Then how come all he produced were failures? Why would he need the Hougyoku

Didn’t Aizen say that Urahara’s method of creating the Shinigami/Hollow Hybrids, Involved the Hougyoku? (Forget about my second Hougyoku theory…I am talking about the first one)

Didn’t he say that he tried on his own, but all he got were failed experiments?

Didn’t he also say that to break the limits placed on a Shinigami he had to use Urahara’s technique, and in order to do that he had to use the Hougyoku?

Correct me if I am wrong but, didn’t Hitsugaya say that a Vastoorode is a form of Hollow that is the most humanoid and stronger than all the other Hollows? (And very rare)

So how come, it says they are hybrids made by forbidden spells?

Does anyone know if there is anything in the Bleach Data Books that states this out right?
Can anybody tell me if it says which method created, each (Arrancar/Vizard) or was it the same method that created both. (Arrancar/Vizard)

I would appreciate it if someone could help me understand this

I would also appreciate it someone could point me to a place where I can read it for myself


What , also has me confused is…It says the Arrancar (whom I think is described in the quotes above) powers exceed both Shinigami and Hollow.

And the Vizards only have …a hollow-like personality will exist inside the Shinigami and come out during dangerous situations to prevent the Shinigami body from dying.

That’s bull. Where did this information come from? We know Ichigo’s Hollow prevented him from dying, but Shinji and the others can call theirs out at will.

So this can’t be the only advantage of the Shinigami, gaining Hollow-like entities.

Aizen said He himself wanted to surpass the limits,(I know that is redundant...sorry) placed on the Shinigami. He didn’t say he only wanted to make
everyone other than HIMSELF, stronger. So …How come, the Shinigami with Hollow-like personality, strength, doesn’t exceed both (Hollow/Shinigami) like its Arrancar brother?

They are BOTH hybrids. Two sides of the same coin, IMO.


Who gave these guys the information for this Hollow Guide anyway…I don’t think it’s correct.

[Dark`]

Please label the thread with a [Manga Spoilers] tag...otherwise anime-only people could come in here and, theoretically, get their experience ruined by spoilers.

Originally Posted by BleachOD

I must have missed that. Can someone tell me where in the Manga does it state that there are forbidden spells, that can be used to create Hybrids

If Aizen could have use spells to create Hollow/Arrancar/Shinigami Hybrids. Then how come all he produced were failures? Why would he need the Hougyoku

Didn’t Aizen say that Urahara’s method of creating the Shinigami/Hollow Hybrids, Involved the Hougyoku? (Forget about my second Hougyoku theory…I am talking about the first one)

Didn’t he say that he tried on his own, but all he got were failed experiments?

Didn’t he also say that to break the limits placed on a Shinigami he had to use Urahara’s technique, and in order to do that he had to use the Hougyoku?

The manga states no such thing, but it was heavily implied, to the best of my recollection, that Aizen did try to create hybrids on his own. As such, it's not a stretch to think that there might be some kind of "forbidden spell" which allows for one to create a hybrid. In the end it didn't work properly it seems, so Aizen was forced to go after the Hyogyoku.

Spoiler for manga details:

Correct me if I am wrong but, didn’t Hitsugaya say that a Vastoorode is a form of Hollow that is the most humanoid and stronger than all the other Hollows? (And very rare)

Spoiler:

The Vastorode is indeed the strongest form of a pure Hollow, which looks the most humanoid when compared to the other types of Menos Grande. It's also speculated by Hitsugaya that the strength of a single Vastorode is above that of any captain.

So how come, it says they are hybrids made by forbidden spells?

It was probably an assumption made on someone's part, unless it was specifically stated in a data book. I lack the ability to understand, as well as access to one, so I can't answer your questions pertaining to the data book.

Spoiler for manga details:

What , also has me confused is…It says the Arrancar (whom I think is described in the quotes above) powers exceed both Shinigami and Hollow.

Spoiler:

That is, for all intents and purposes, correct. There's more to it than that, such as the strength and level of the hollow before it became an Arrancar...but for the most part the statement is in the right.

Spoiler for manga details:

And the Vizards only have …a hollow-like personality will exist inside the Shinigami and come out during dangerous situations to prevent the Shinigami body from dying.

That’s bull. Where did this information come from? We know Ichigo’s Hollow prevented him from dying, but Shinji and the others can call theirs out at will.

Spoiler:

Partially correct. As you mentioned, Ichigo's hollow side has come out at least twice now, in an attempt to both protect Ichigo and to take over as the dominant host. And while we know that the other Vizards are now, after training, capable of controlling their hollow side, we don't know how they were before they were able to control it. They could have very well been like Ichigo, in that their hollow side would only manifest itself when the host was in trouble. It's all speculation on my part as I reiterate that I lack access to a data book (not that I'm sure a data book would explain all of this).

Spoiler for manga details:

So this can’t be the only advantage of the Shinigami, gaining Hollow-like entities.

Aizen said He himself wanted to surpass the limits,(I know that is redundant...sorry) placed on the Shinigami. He didn’t say he only wanted to make
everyone other than HIMSELF, stronger. So …How come, the Shinigami with Hollow-like personality, strength, doesn’t exceed both (Hollow/Shinigami) like its Arrancar brother?

They are BOTH hybrids. Two sides of the same coin, IMO.

Spoiler:

Agreed, they are both hybrids. Gaining a hollow-side is just a facate of it...apparently the merging of the two powers (Shinigami and Hollow) produces a larger power. And from what we've been shown so far, the strength of a Vizard does exceed that of a pure Shinigami or pure Hollow...have you forgotten Ichigo's fight with Byakuya? When his hollow side manifested itself, it was cleaning Byakuya's clock. Same goes for Ichigo/Shinji when they pulled out their mask and fought Grimmjaw (I know he was minus an arm, but still).

Who gave these guys the information for this Hollow Guide anyway…I don’t think it’s correct.

The information, more than likely, consists largely of speculation based on what I've seen, mixed with some facts here and there. I don't want to dismiss them totally...but a lot of it seems like stuff that the website you were reading made up according to their own theories.

[Zu Ra]

I have two crazy theories regarding Urahara , these theories are inter-related and merly on speculation basis .

First Theory : Urahara's Banishment

Spoiler for manga:

Till today we are not told about Urahara’s past it’s mostly seedy , What was the apparent reason for Kisuke Banishment from Sendai no Gotei .??

Urahara is well known for trying out his experiments on himself. He tried Tenshintai ( Zanapkuto materializer ) on himself Yoruichi herself mentions it. Urahara invented Hōgyoku… wouldn’t it be possible if indeed Urahara was the first guinea pig to try it whether it was successful like earlier?

Does that mean Urahara is a Vizard? Reasons regarding my speculation

• He can shoot Ceros which only Vizards and Arrancars are capable of ( ie ep 31 )

• He wasn’t surprised one bit when Ichi emerged from the hole with a Hollow Mask (ie ep 19 )

• He cant enter through Senkamon when Yoruichi can ( ie ep 20 )

• He is known for trying his experiments on himself if not how else did he know Hōgyoku was a success

Second Theory :Urahara’s escape

Spoiler for manga:

We all know Yoruichi aided Urahara’s escape , were there others like say Isshin and Shiba Kukaku .

Shiba families are one of the noble families how did they fall to grace why were they banished from Seireitei to Ryukognai .Was it related to Urahara’s escape ?

Did Kukaku aid his escape, If you do remember when Yoru and three stooges first come in contact with Kukaku . She does mention I cant say no to Urahara’s friends . She refers Yoruichi as Urahara’s friend , that is a strong indication Yoru knows Kukaku through Urahara .

Isshin knows Urahara extremely well , Isshin knows first hand Ura is training Ichi . How are they friends and they seem like old friends

I have been thinking Kukaku theory from long time and this vizard theory came up after ceros

[BleachOD]

Soorry about the spoilers....my site didn't have them... so I forgot. that was orignally posted in the Manga section (There it's stated there are spoilers...so read at your own risk)

So Geta Boshi. I agree. I have been arguing for a year...with a member for a year that AIZEN and Urahara is a Vizard...I also have a second Hougyoku theory...let me run that by you guys and see what you think.

Thanks Dark for trying to help.... Some things I agree with...even said before.

[LoOnatick]

The theory of Urahara being a Vizard, I never thought of it until now. It does sound relevant though since Urahara is a character shrouded in mysteries. About Ichigo - unlike the other Vizards. The shinigami powers he obtained at the beginning were Rukia's in which he lost after his first fight with Byakuya. Ichigo received help from Urahara on regaining his own Shinigami powers, however, at that same time his inner hollow was created.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by LoOnatick

The theory of Urahara being a Vizard, I never thought of it until now. It does sound relevant though since Urahara is a character shrouded in mysteries. About Ichigo - unlike the other Vizards. The shinigami powers he obtained at the beginning were Rukia's in which he lost after his first fight with Byakuya. Ichigo received help from Urahara on regaining his own Shinigami powers, however, at that same time his inner hollow was created.

I will atempt to explain why I believe wholeheartly Aizen is a Vizard and Urahara is a Viz...and there is possibly an a Second Hougyoku...
I am sorry if this is the wrong place...but I am still new and I didn't want to create another thread... If it isn't or I should put spoilers in certain places...Please tell me.

I am running my theory by you guys, because I notice there are a lot of intelligent, and open-minde ppl at this place. So I really want to know your opinion. My other unamed place....thinks I am just trying to glorify Ichigo. I am not (He is glorious anyway...doesnt need my help)

At the time Ichigo lost, regained his powers, and entered SS. Aizen hadn't even aquired the first one yet. Aizen said himself, by the time he discovered the where the Hougyoku was hidden (Where it was hidden, not its existence)...Rukia had already left SS, and he immediately put his plan into action to recover her, and it.

(He also said he couldn't find her at first, because of the Gigai, which is why he ALSO had it recalled, so she couldn't escape in it incase Ichigo did manage to stop the excution...but that is another story)

So even if he knew, of the existence of the second one...Which, he probably did, because I am sure he knew, Byakuya destroyed Ichigo's Soul Sleep and Chain Link, taking his powers. (Yet, he still expected Ichigo to show up)

...Knowing the power of Hougyoku, and it exactly what is was...He had to know (or at least suspect) the only way a former Deathgod could recover his lost powers, or even just get new ones was with the Hougyoku.

He couldn't go after it, because ...A) He hadn't revealed his true nature, nor his motives

B) It is obvious he couldn't just go to the Living World, himself, without an assignment...Because then they would kinda of had a tip off he wasn't what he seemed, or may have met him with resistance, before he could get to it.

C)If it was that easy, he wouldn't have done all that planning and moving certain pawns (I.e killing rm 46. Sending out captain Kuchiki and Renji to retrieve her ...Two ppl who he knew would, put duty before friendship)

(Really, he could have simply grabbed Urahara, by the neck and said "Where you put the F--king, Hougyoku"...and make him run (give up) the Sh-t. Its not like he didn't know where he was.

D) Why go after a second Hougyoku and possibly ruin a GREAT plan, when the first one was all he needed to achieve his goal, and within his grasp.

E) Again,The Time Frame Even If he found out or suspected a second Hougyoku existed, he would have been in the middle of trying to excute Rukia, and retrieve the first one, at the time it was used...so he could not have gone after it. Or should I say he didn't have time...

Aizen said

Spoiler:

He the only way to sucessfully create a Shingami/Hollow Hybrid, was the method created by Urahara. He was dissatified because he already master all the Shingami fighting styles and could go no further. He wanted to become what we know as a Viazard. And create Arrancars, Hollows with Shingami Powers.

Aizen has to be a Viz because his base form was Shingami soul. And Arracars base form was Hollow.

Urahara has to be a Vizard, because its his method. How else would he know how dangerous it is,and Yourichi said he ALWAYS performed his experments on HIMSELF first

We saw how Ichigo was made. Also Hougyoku translates as "Crumbling Treasure" and Ichgio was put into the "Shattered Shaft" Do you see a connection? It could be a tool. I believe spells were probably invovled and I think it was a bootleg version since time was of the essence and thats why he has trouble controlling it

As far as the location...Only Urahara would know. He could have found a way to destroy it, or at least put it out of comission. Think outside the box.

[Zu Ra]

Actually Aizen is not a Vizard ... Aizen plans to become one using Hogyoku with Tosen and Gin .. We can speculate but factually there is no evidence . Indeed Aizen plans to become a vizard to combat Royal Gaurd and dethrone SS King thats the main reason he needs an army of Arrancars and most importantly Hogyoku

Also Hogyoku is the key to open SS King Dimension

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Also Hogyoku is the key to open SS King Dimension [/FONT]

No, it's not. That's a different device being referred to as the "King's Key."

[Zu Ra]

Yeah but is not Hogyoku the Catlyst ?

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yeah but is not Hogyoku the Catlyst ?

Nope --

Originally Posted by Yamamoto

The Hougyoku was only affiliated with one record, the research data compiled on it. However, two days before Aizen escaped, records completely unrelated were also removed.

(in reference to the key)

[Zu Ra]

I know about the key a million mod souls etc etc ... But I always belived Hogyoku was the catlyst to the chain reaction ie SS King Dimension

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

I know about the key a million mod souls etc etc ... But I always belived Hogyoku was the catlyst to the chain reaction ie SS King Dimension

It's only a means to the end in that Aizen needed it to get the Hollow forces on his side. There are certainly other ways to fulfill the requirements, so I wouldn't say that the two are inherently related.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Actually Aizen is not a Vizard ... Aizen plans to become one using Hogyoku with Tosen and Gin .. We can speculate but factually there is no evidence . Indeed Aizen plans to become a vizard to combat Royal Gaurd and dethrone SS King thats the main reason he needs an army of Arrancars and most importantly Hogyoku

Also Hogyoku is the key to open SS King Dimension

Wrong!

Also Hogyoku is the key to open SS King Dimension

who told you that? Seriously, Aizen used Negashion to escape. Ichigo and Co...went to SS and HM without a Hougyouku.
If that's all it was, would it be considered that dangerous?

It has the power to create beings with unlimited, and dangerous powers. It can a turn a Shinigami or a Hollow into an absurdly powerful, beast. Who can destroy the living and they dead at a whim, nor can it destroyed. That is it's purpose.

There are many ways to travel through dimensions...Urahara didn't waste time creating a key to unlock a door, when there are many keys.

The Hougyoku was the key to sucessfully breaking the limits on Shinigami...Aizen needed to become stronger. So he could stand in the heavens....His words. He wanted to become stronger because He couldnt do it alone. His Shinigami Soul hit a wall...He said this in the Manga and the Anime

He experimented with Hollow Shingami combos...But failed, He needed a method that he could use on himself. His army is nothing more than Ginea pigs

Do you really think he would upgrade Hollows...who would have the potential to overthrow him. But not increase his own power level

Look how easy Tousen took out Grimjow, but got pwned by Zaraki....He is much stronger now...So AIZEN, TOUSEN AND GIN have to be Viz



Arrancars would be stronger than him ...so the only way he could control beings that powerful is to become even stronger than them. That's a Vizard

The Hougyoku was catalyst ....Yes. But he needed it to become stronger. So he would be able to go after the king.


*Say this to the tune of the Old lady who swallowed a fly*

He got, Hougyoku, to get the mask, to become a Vizard, to kidnap the girl. To get to the king....I don't why, You guys cant see it, like I.

[Zu Ra]

Err you are a little confused between Senkaimon and SS King Dimension .. SSKing doesnt reside in Seireitei but in an alternate dimension in Seiretei

This was an intresting peice of information collected by No Sanin Wa from Bleach chara Book regarding SS King before chapter 222 came out way before

Thread link : SS King

Its not about seeing like you do we all know Aizen is going to become a Vizard , but till its mentioned or appears in manga we can only speculate he has become or not . Lets say he has become a Vizard are there any facts to back us up , we have reasons not facts . I am in agreement he will become a Vizard but we cant say for sure when =)

[WarpObscura]

There is one thing I am unclear about...

We have seen that Ichigo has had to fight Shirosaki/Hichigo/Whatever-He's-Calling-Himself-Now to gain control over the Hollow powers. Did this apply to the other Vizards? Do Arrancar need to crush their Shinigami halves in order to wield their power or is their Shinigami side too "civil" to attempt wresting control?

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by WarpObscura;

We have seen that Ichigo has had to fight Shirosaki/Hichigo/Whatever-He's-Calling-Himself-

You forgot Vichigo , I think he doesnt call himself anything guess we call him all that . Retro : he was just called by us as Clone Hollow

Now to gain control over the Hollow powers. Did this apply to the other Vizards? Do Arrancar need to crush their Shinigami halves in order to wield their power or is their Shinigami side too "civil" to attempt wresting control?

Yes in case of Vizards its true, Arrancars I dont know . Actually for a perfectally balanced Vizard like Shinji or Hiyori , the hollow and the shinigami side are in perfect balance .

I mean remember ep 38/39 the Zangestu world had Clone hollow and Zangestu , thats what I meant by a perfect balance . For a vizard the Clone Hollow side and Shinigami side ( ie Zangestu ) are in perfect balance without one super imposing the other . If one side is more dominant you are more likely to have that side's powers more ( Vichigo ) or ( Shinigami Ichigo ).

Ichigo has no idea he is a Vizard he thinks / he belives he is a Shinigami . And his inablity to control clone hollow side results in his hollow becoming more dominant at the end taking over Zangestu world . The Vizard Inc teach him how to control his hollow side but only for 13 seconds in combat .

Genrally for a Vizard the Shinigami side is more dominant and for an Arrancar the Hollow side

[Zu Ra]

Ichigo with his Hollow side Maxed Out

[Dark`]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yes in case of Vizards its true, Arrancars I dont know . Actually for a perfectally balanced Vizard like Shinji or Hiyori , the hollow and the shinigami side are in perfect balance .

I mean remember ep 38/39 the Zangestu world had Clone hollow and Zangestu , thats what I meant by a perfect balance . For a vizard the Clone Hollow side and Shinigami side ( ie Zangestu ) are in perfect balance without one super imposing the other . If one side is more dominant you are more likely to have that side's powers more ( Vichigo ) or ( Shinigami Ichigo ).

Ichigo has no idea he is a Vizard he thinks / he belives he is a Shinigami . And his inablity to control clone hollow side results in his hollow becoming more dominant at the end taking over Zangestu world . The Vizard Inc teach him how to control his hollow side but only for 13 seconds in combat .

Genrally for a Vizard the Shinigami side is more dominant and for an Arrancar the Hollow side

Where exactly did you find this information? I don't recall seeing that in the manga at all, only Shinji mentioning the fact that "The only way to push down a hollow... is by crushing it down into the very core of your soul." I've yet to see any true signs of the other Vizards having their hollow and shinigami sides in perfect balance. It's a reasonable assumption, I'm just wondering if you have anything to back it up, or if it really is just an assumption.

[Zu Ra]

Partly facts / partly assumption let me explain... What is a Vizard ? Vizard is super breed between a shinigami and a hollow with shinigami side slightly more dominant . Or in other word a Shinigami who has gained hollow powers

Let me substantiate with Ichigo , a shinigami powers are personified by his Zanapakuto . Initially when Ichigo's hollow side is totally passive only Zangestu is seen . When his Hollow side becomes active the Clone hollow along with Zangestu is seen this is the median. When his hollow side becomes far more active than his shinigami side, only clone hollow is seen in Zangestu World (chptr 217,218,219).

Spoiler for image:

The point of this was, a Vizard is a mix of shinigami/hollow ... Balance is achieved only when both sides are active with the shinigami side being slightly more active as Ichi or Vizards are Shinigami to begin with If the Hollow side takes over we see Vichigo

I've yet to see any true signs of the other Vizards having their hollow and shinigami sides in perfect balance.

Well if they did not, would Shinji be able to manipulate his hollow side to fight Grim. I mean unlike Vichigo, Shinji is in control. He is manipulating the hollow side clearly that’s what I meant by balance. But off course the shinigami side is going to be more in control always .

Same goes for Arrancar but their Hollow side is more dominant.


EDIT : The Balance was in refferance to Zanpakuto World

[Dark`]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Partly facts / partly assumption let me explain... What is a Vizard ? Vizard is super breed between a shinigami and a hollow with shinigami side slightly more dominant . Or in other word a Shinigami who has gained hollow powers

Shinigami who gained hollow powers, correct. However, it's never been said specifically that the shinigami side is more dominant. The only thing we know for sure is that Vizards, generally speaking, were shinigami first and then gained hollow powers, just like Arrancars were hollow first and then gained shinigami powers.

However, I agree with your argument simply because, as seen from Ichigo's attempt to control his hollow, it seems as if a shinigami who gained hollow powers but loses dominance to it (king and his horse reference) can theoretically become an Arrancar.

The point of this was, a Vizard is a mix of shinigami/hollow ... Balance is achieved only when both sides are active with the shinigami side being slightly more active as Ichi or Vizards are Shinigami to begin with If the Hollow side takes over we see Vichigo

Oh, you mean that kind of balance. I wouldn't really call it balance. You see, the balance you spoke of originally gave me the impression that both sides were working in harmony, as allies or whatnot.

Well if they did not, would Shinji be able to manipulate his hollow side to fight Grim. I mean unlike Vichigo, Shinji is in control. He is manipulating the hollow side clearly that’s what I meant by balance. But off course the shinigami side is going to be more in control always .

Shinji does not need the hollow to work in harmony with him in order for him to draw out its power. Again, by balance, I thought you meant harmony. If by balance you simply meant that the shinigami and hollow's powers are both being used at the same time, then yeah. But like I said again, by balance, I thought you meant harmony. I mean, as of this point, even Ichigo can manipulate his hollow side, he just needs more training in order to keep his mask out longer. But that doesn't mean he's in perfect harmony with his hollow....after all, his hollow made certain to let him know that he'd overtake Ichigo at the slightest sign of weakness.