AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-01-27, 04:41   Link #281
Fynal_Fyre
Sanae moe over 9000
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Under the Crimson Air
Send a message via MSN to Fynal_Fyre
Well, like I said it was a long-shot explanation, my consensus is that Death usually follows with Despair heralded in it's wake.

Think about it, all historical events involving Death go hand in hand with Despair.

Such as the Holocaust, World War 2, Septenber 11th, etc, etc.....

Even biblically, the final rider of the Apocalypse, DEATH is described as thus:

From Revelations 6:8:

"I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death."

The pale horse upon which Death rides is traditionally viewed as equated with fear, pestilence, or despair.
__________________

It's not sad anymore| Insanity and rants

Fynal_Fyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-30, 13:54   Link #282
King Lycan
User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zeon
Age: 23
spoilers for next chapter anyone
__________________
King Lycan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-30, 17:16   Link #283
naruto89
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
its kinda vague but anyhoo here is a short script
Spoiler for taking guido's advice :):
__________________
LITTLE CHIKADEE'S !! OPEN THEM SMALL EYES OF YOURS AS WIDE AS YOU CAN AND TAKE A REALLY, REALLY GOOD LOOK !! BLESSED BE !! ITS THE TWILIGHT ZONE RAMPAGE ! BY JIRAYA, THE ALIEN SAGE NINJA !!
naruto89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-30, 21:05   Link #284
Guido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 34
Chaos2Frozen and Tormenk, you're making a point that I forgot in my recent post.

Level 3 Akuma are just the haxx for Exorcists that haven't reached the critical limiter or 100% synch ration with their Innocence.
Spoiler:


However, for the Generals, who have achieved over 100% synch ratio with the Innocence, Level 3 Akuma pose as nothing else but a pest of little rats that are easily made mincemeat effortlessly in seconds.
Spoiler:


Unfortunately, seems like the tide of the battle may or not dramatically change in the next chapter.

We can't be sure for now how much wide the gap in power level from Level 3 to Level 4 has increased, until we see that critter in some butt-kicking action for this week's chapter. But realizing how Level 3's were a hopeless nightmare for non-General Exorcists, then I infer that the Level 4 would be the haxx of despair even for the Generals, in spite that all of them have the critical limiter beyond 100%.
Spoiler:


But wait there's still more. While I was drafting this post out of the sudden I was struck by a realization.

It's been some time that no mention about the Heart has been made in the current arc.
Spoiler:


Finally, Chaos2Frozen made me to ponder that the existence of a Level 5 may not be unfathomable but that depends on what Allen observes through his cursed eye whether there's still some soul inside that Level 4 or not.

The Akuma evolution cycle involves the gradual deterioration and dissappearance of the soul inside it, as the akuma further advances into a high evolution level.

The souls in Level One's are skeletal bodies wearing the clothes of their former human selves while they were alive but all have a chain tied around the neck.
What I believe the soul loses in this stage is its former human personality, as the Akuma personality has taken over and is developing by killing humans in order to become self-sentient in the next level.

The souls in Level Two's have rotten to become skeleton ghosts wrapped in what looks like a strait jacket made of bandages and chains, placed in fetal position.
What is interesting to remark is that in level two all the souls look the same regardless how their respective Akuma vessels are different from each other. This addresses that upon reaching the second level the souls lose now their sense of individuality or identity of the humans that once were when living.

For Example, Eliade did never recall any memories of who she was when she was a living human. Instead, she remembered back to the time from she was resurrected as an Akuma feeling infernal pain to the time she met Krory.

Spoiler:

The only way I see fit for the existence of a Level 5 to be possible is if there's still a bit or tiny traces of the soul left inside a Level 4.
Spoiler:

Last edited by Guido; 2008-01-30 at 21:50.
Guido is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-31, 11:12   Link #285
Valerian Mengsk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Spoiler for level 4's and 5's:


BTW, I am new to this particular section of the forum, so hi all.
__________________
"Are you always a smart ass."
"No sometimes I sleep."
The Dresden Files

Last edited by Valerian Mengsk; 2008-01-31 at 11:12. Reason: Add spoiler boxes
Valerian Mengsk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-31, 13:42   Link #286
CitizenGeek
State Alchemist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ireland
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to CitizenGeek
I see you all are talking about the later chapters of D.Gray-man ... but I'm just going to wade in with my opinion of the first two volumes: they were good, hard to follow and I hope it gets better (I've got vols. 3 and 4 waiting on my shelf to be read); so, does it get better as it progresses?
CitizenGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-31, 15:03   Link #287
King Lycan
User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zeon
Age: 23
If Lenalee makes a comeback whats holding krory-sama
__________________
King Lycan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-31, 18:56   Link #288
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenGeek View Post
I see you all are talking about the later chapters of D.Gray-man ... but I'm just going to wade in with my opinion of the first two volumes: they were good, hard to follow and I hope it gets better (I've got vols. 3 and 4 waiting on my shelf to be read); so, does it get better as it progresses?

In terms of story, the plot does get thicker after/during... Volume 3?

But generally, the atmosphere remains the same. It would be dark, there would be humor, and some parts can be gory, but I find it very different from the super-popular shounen series as of late.

Long story short; yes, in my opinion, it would get better as the story continues.
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 06:12   Link #289
Fynal_Fyre
Sanae moe over 9000
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Under the Crimson Air
Send a message via MSN to Fynal_Fyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Chaos2Frozen and Tormenk, you're making a point that I forgot in my recent post.

Level 3 Akuma are just the haxx for Exorcists that haven't reached the critical limiter or 100% synch ration with their Innocence.
Spoiler:


We can't be sure for now how much wide the gap in power level from Level 3 to Level 4 has increased, until we see that critter in some butt-kicking action for this week's chapter. But realizing how Level 3's were a hopeless nightmare for non-General Exorcists, then I infer that the Level 4 would be the haxx of despair even for the Generals, in spite that all of them have the critical limiter beyond 100%.
Spoiler:


But wait there's still more. While I was drafting this post out of the sudden I was struck by a realization.

It's been some time that no mention about the Heart has been made in the current arc.
Spoiler:


Finally, Chaos2Frozen made me to ponder that the existence of a Level 5 may not be unfathomable but that depends on what Allen observes through his cursed eye whether there's still some soul inside that Level 4 or not.

The Akuma evolution cycle involves the gradual deterioration and dissappearance of the soul inside it, as the akuma further advances into a high evolution level.

The souls in Level One's are skeletal bodies wearing the clothes of their former human selves while they were alive but all have a chain tied around the neck.
What I believe the soul loses in this stage is its former human personality, as the Akuma personality has taken over and is developing by killing humans in order to become self-sentient in the next level.

The souls in Level Two's have rotten to become skeleton ghosts wrapped in what looks like a strait jacket made of bandages and chains, placed in fetal position.
What is interesting to remark is that in level two all the souls look the same regardless how their respective Akuma vessels are different from each other. This addresses that upon reaching the second level the souls lose now their sense of individuality or identity of the humans that once were when living.

For Example, Eliade did never recall any memories of who she was when she was a living human. Instead, she remembered back to the time from she was resurrected as an Akuma feeling infernal pain to the time she met Krory.

Spoiler:

The only way I see fit for the existence of a Level 5 to be possible is if there's still a bit or tiny traces of the soul left inside a Level 4.
Spoiler:
Spoiler for MILD Manga RAW synopsis:


As to the heart, yeah, I share the same sentiment, level 3's seem to be the deciding factor for exorcists to push their innocence over the 100%~ synchro mark.

Plainly, it could be that:

1. Level 4's would require even a general to go all-out, perhaps near-death or even taking the Akuma down with him as he dies.

2. It would require whichever exorcist who possesses the Heart of all innocence, to break the 100%~ synchro limiter, like Guido says, and become the uber-pwnage machine to own even lvl. 4's.

And to address the issue of level 5's, those would be some really freaky scary hax-machines of doom, it would probably take every single general, working together as one, at his/her maximum potential, to pose a threat to it, given that the massive jumps in power from level to level are currently rather gigantic.

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenGeek View Post
I see you all are talking about the later chapters of D.Gray-man ... but I'm just going to wade in with my opinion of the first two volumes: they were good, hard to follow and I hope it gets better (I've got vols. 3 and 4 waiting on my shelf to be read); so, does it get better as it progresses?
Volumes 3 and 4 were pretty awesome in my opinion, the plot deepens in both volumes as pivotal points in certain characters' lives are introduced, and yeah, essentially, it gets way better.
__________________

It's not sad anymore| Insanity and rants

Fynal_Fyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 07:00   Link #290
naruto89
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Spoiler for 146:
__________________
LITTLE CHIKADEE'S !! OPEN THEM SMALL EYES OF YOURS AS WIDE AS YOU CAN AND TAKE A REALLY, REALLY GOOD LOOK !! BLESSED BE !! ITS THE TWILIGHT ZONE RAMPAGE ! BY JIRAYA, THE ALIEN SAGE NINJA !!
naruto89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 07:18   Link #291
Tormenk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gaf's Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre View Post
Spoiler for MILD Manga RAW synopsis:


As to the heart, yeah, I share the same sentiment, level 3's seem to be the deciding factor for exorcists to push their innocence over the 100%~ synchro mark.

Plainly, it could be that:

1. Level 4's would require even a general to go all-out, perhaps near-death or even taking the Akuma down with him as he dies.

2. It would require whichever exorcist who possesses the Heart of all innocence, to break the 100%~ synchro limiter, like Guido says, and become the uber-pwnage machine to own even lvl. 4's.
That great a power boost? Frankly if level 4(s) can match Generals evenly, that's already quite a threat.

Quote:
And to address the issue of level 5's, those would be some really freaky scary hax-machines of doom, it would probably take every single general, working together as one, at his/her maximum potential, to pose a threat to it, given that the massive jumps in power from level to level are currently rather gigantic.

Spoiler:
I had a idea after reading this. Besides having millions of puppets under his control to wide the world clean of humans, what other possible reason could the Earl have for using Akumas? It might be for that reason that he's looking for his "Champion" the ultimate Akuma, so to speak to stand against any threats later on. The possible level 5, if not the level 4 might just be that.
__________________


"A life without change is akin to death."

"Wheel turns, river flows and life goes on."

"Best way to kill a man, is to leave him alone."

"Until you come, until we close our eyes."

Tormenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 11:58   Link #292
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
As expected, Allen is no match for the Lv 4.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
I had a idea after reading this. Besides having millions of puppets under his control to wide the world clean of humans, what other possible reason could the Earl have for using Akumas? It might be for that reason that he's looking for his "Champion" the ultimate Akuma, so to speak to stand against any threats later on. The possible level 5, if not the level 4 might just be that.

Hey, I had that same thought as well !

To have the Akumas destroy the weak humans, then fight amongs each other, becoming stronger and stronger until only one left to become this 'perfect' being.

(I got this idea from Animorph )

That said though, this Ultimate Champion Akuma probably isn't the Lv 4. Because apparently, Japan is a nest of Akumas above Lv 3.
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 13:18   Link #293
King Lycan
User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zeon
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre View Post


1. Level 4's would require even a general to go all-out, perhaps near-death or even taking the Akuma down with him as he dies.

I thing generals can crush lvl 4's because look how bad Cross beat Tyki and we all know allen cant beat tyki and if lvl 4's are so powerful they why didnt he just make more lvl 4's
__________________
King Lycan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 14:09   Link #294
Fynal_Fyre
Sanae moe over 9000
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Under the Crimson Air
Send a message via MSN to Fynal_Fyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
That great a power boost? Frankly if level 4(s) can match Generals evenly, that's already quite a threat.
Yeah, I think after reading that, I'm being a LITTLE too generous, but it does appear that the increase in power for Akumas that level up is exponential indeed.

After all, Lenalee could take down Lv 2's with relative ease, but when it came to Eshi, she had to go ALL out.

Perhaps the Lv.4's will be a difficult challenge for any General to overcome, perhaps not requiring him/her to go all out, perhaps just enough of a threat for the General to take REALLY seriously, requiring him/her to think tactically and fight VERY carefully against such an opponent to pull off a decisive win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
To have the Akumas destroy the weak humans, then fight amongs each other, becoming stronger and stronger until only one left to become this 'perfect' being.

(I got this idea from Animorph )

That said though, this Ultimate Champion Akuma probably isn't the Lv 4. Because apparently, Japan is a nest of Akumas above Lv 3.
Indeed, that poses a serious worry to me, if Japan is a nest of Akumas higher than LV. 3.......

Anyway, with regards to the "Perfect Akuma" that theory seems VERY promising, and at the same time very, very creepy XD.

Perhaps the Earl will magically merge the twisted, perverted souls in only the mightiest Akuma, catalyse it's growth, and breed the ultimate mockery of the human soul, a truly dark mirror-image of human life and perverse sham of existence, wherein the 'soul, if it could be called even that, is a living, breathing, entity of Dark Matter, whose sole will is to destroy and enslave, leashed only by the Earl of Millennium.

After all, it wouldn't make sense for the Earl to kill off his entire demon army for ONE perfect Akuma, for as the saying goes, even if he does breed the mightiest Akuma in existence, two heads ARE better than one, and the Earl would be a lot safer from ANY threat with a gigantic demon army at his beck and call AND the penultimate Akuma at his side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Lycans View Post
I thing generals can crush lvl 4's because look how bad Cross beat Tyki and we all know allen cant beat tyki and if lvl 4's are so powerful they why didnt he just make more lvl 4's
Yeah, that made me think too, the only reason I can think of is this:

Spoiler for Manga:


As to making MORE Lv. 4's, we already know the Earl has Akuma more powerful than Lv 3. at his beck and call, can't say for sure if they are Lv 4 though.
__________________

It's not sad anymore| Insanity and rants

Fynal_Fyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 16:06   Link #295
Guido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 34
Someone else beated me to update information on this chapter regarding level 4's at wiki. But since I invested so much time coming up with it, I will kindly post it in the Animesuki thread.

Spoiler for Chapter 146 manga scans:


Fynal_Fyre's theory about how the soul inside an Akuma looks like is the closest one to the truth once 146 chapter was released.
Actually, it was his/her theory about the appearance of a Lv. 5's soul which was the closest one, since the Level 4 Akuma's soul was revealed by Allen in the current manga chapter.
Spoiler:


Spoiler:
Guido is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 20:34   Link #296
Tormenk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gaf's Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Hey, I had that same thought as well !

To have the Akumas destroy the weak humans, then fight amongs each other, becoming stronger and stronger until only one left to become this 'perfect' being.

(I got this idea from Animorph )

That said though, this Ultimate Champion Akuma probably isn't the Lv 4. Because apparently, Japan is a nest of Akumas above Lv 3.
Heh. I had a feeling you might think so too.

Animorphs? Don't recall the Yeerks ever being like this.

And combining the theories again, the ultimate Akuma evolves to a..


Noah.


Well jokes aside here's the half-baked theory. Why would a Earl seek such a being to match or even overtake a Noah since he's like got a dozen of them?

The incident with the 14th(or was it 13th?) Noah comes to mind. Even not counting that incident, the Noah have their own wills which does mean they are capable of betrayal as shown by the 14th. By creating a killing puppet under his absolute command, the Earl has a safeguard of sorts against such events.

Although it's a big IF there is a level 5 or 'Champion', and after that a bigger IF it can match a Noah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre View Post

Perhaps the Lv.4's will be a difficult challenge for any General to overcome, perhaps not requiring him/her to go all out, perhaps just enough of a threat for the General to take REALLY seriously, requiring him/her to think tactically and fight VERY carefully against such an opponent to pull off a decisive win.
Yes indeed.

That does recall that the Generals are quite varied in their strong points even though they are supposed to be around the same level, so each individual might fare differently against level 4, if ever. Case in point, when attempting to destroy the egg, Cross remarked that "Only I, Sokaros and Cloud is able to take that thing out in one hit", missing out old Froi. Also in that pwnage by the Generals, Froi did take somewhat of a backspot iirc.

Quote:
As to making MORE Lv. 4's, we already know the Earl has Akuma more powerful than Lv 3. at his beck and call, can't say for sure if they are Lv 4 though.
That particular remark by the characters is really suspect since they could be refering to the giant akumas or the level 4s or either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Someone else beated me to update information on this chapter regarding level 4's at wiki. But since I invested so much time coming up with it, I will kindly post it in the Animesuki thread.

Spoiler for Chapter 146 manga scans:


Fynal_Fyre's theory about how the soul inside an Akuma looks like is the closest one to the truth once 146 chapter was released.
Actually, it was his/her theory about the appearance of a Lv. 5's soul which was the closest one, since the Level 4 Akuma's soul was revealed by Allen in the current manga chapter.
Spoiler:


Spoiler:
Can't see the images. Don't mind me though.
__________________


"A life without change is akin to death."

"Wheel turns, river flows and life goes on."

"Best way to kill a man, is to leave him alone."

"Until you come, until we close our eyes."


Last edited by Tormenk; 2008-02-01 at 23:12.
Tormenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 21:03   Link #297
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
Hmm... where is the stuff saying he cannot longer save him coming from? He's just saying that the degradation is too cruel, way too cruel, and that it is something that he can no longer see. (in the sense he cannot bring himself to see it) Next page we have Jonny continuously apologizing and asking Allen to save them.

Also, interesting to note would be that upon being born it would seem that the Akuma was a little oblivious as to who he was and what was he supposed to be doing, given that he even asks Allen if he is crying and upon Jonny's request "please, save everyone", he even goes as far as saying "who's everyone?.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 21:06   Link #298
Fynal_Fyre
Sanae moe over 9000
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Under the Crimson Air
Send a message via MSN to Fynal_Fyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post

Yes indeed.

That does recall that the Generals are quite varied in their strong points even though they are supposed to be around the same level, so each individual might fare differently against level 4, if ever. Case in point, when attempting to destroy the egg, Cross remarked that "Only I, Sokaros and Cloud is able to take that thing out in one hit", missing out old Froi. Also in that pwnage by the Generals, Froi did take somewhat of a backspot iirc.
Spoiler for The Generals' Innocence:
__________________

It's not sad anymore| Insanity and rants

Fynal_Fyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-01, 23:11   Link #299
Tormenk
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gaf's Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Hmm... where is the stuff saying he cannot longer save him coming from? He's just saying that the degradation is too cruel, way too cruel, and that it is something that he can no longer see. (in the sense he cannot bring himself to see it) Next page we have Jonny continuously apologizing and asking Allen to save them.

Also, interesting to note would be that upon being born it would seem that the Akuma was a little oblivious as to who he was and what was he supposed to be doing, given that he even asks Allen if he is crying and upon Jonny's request "please, save everyone", he even goes as far as saying "who's everyone?.
One more danger flag raised then. So far just about all the Akumas are deliberate about killing to be enjoying it but the level 4 seems to be slightly..innocent.
Given the situation, this state of mind is very dangerous for his opponents. Innocent curiosity can be more scary and damaging than intentional cruelty sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre View Post
Spoiler for The Generals' Innocence:
That was the impression I got as well from that few chapters. Froi's Eden does seem to be more on the defensive side when compared to other Generals.
__________________


"A life without change is akin to death."

"Wheel turns, river flows and life goes on."

"Best way to kill a man, is to leave him alone."

"Until you come, until we close our eyes."

Tormenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-02-02, 03:14   Link #300
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre View Post
After all, it wouldn't make sense for the Earl to kill off his entire demon army for ONE perfect Akuma, for as the saying goes, even if he does breed the mightiest Akuma in existence, two heads ARE better than one, and the Earl would be a lot safer from ANY threat with a gigantic demon army at his beck and call AND the penultimate Akuma at his side.
Rather than kill off, his Akumas just merge with each other... I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
Heh. I had a feeling you might think so too.

Animorphs? Don't recall the Yeerks ever being like this.

And combining the theories again, the ultimate Akuma evolves to a..
Not them.

Crayak and it's Howlers.
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, manga, shounen, steampunk, supernatural, what the hell is going on

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.