Code Geass R2 - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Cat Megex]

Well...to bring up a completely different point: who else thinks Lelouch's Geass is going to be getting an upgrade soon? *basing this on the swishy-eye thing shown in this episode, and also shown way back in the episode with Shirley after the Geass-spam*

[brandon279]

Spoiler for some notes on the episode:

Marriane had a contract with C.C, but she failed to grant C.C wish (just like Mao).

Marirane had a geass, we can guess that it is related to controlling people or putting one's soul in anther body, (seems like Grace in macross f).

anyway, that explains how could c.c talked with her in season1 (when we all thought she was dead).

she goes into the open now, in this timing, why is that ?


if we return to season one, c.c was talking to her, she told c.c to help lelouch (at Sataima ghetto) , so lets say, Marianne was observing lelouch back then and now
but since c.c sealed her code, the link between Mariane and c.c had been broken.

so Marianne had taken this action to activate c.c, then continue the game (observing lelouch and c.c)


other reason is : she didnt agree with Charles plans, so she decided to stop him, so she decided to help lelouch personally in his struggle against charles.



people will disagree with me because Marianne referred to herself being NOT ideal mother.


but i think that line was sarcasm, and she is really good mother,
why ?

if she wanted to defeat lelouch she would not activate c.c (whom can rival charles in knowledge and power), she would NOT cover lelouch entering in geass ruins, (she fooled Bismark and let lelouch enter unnoticed by Bismark), she would NOT land near the entrance then ask C.C opinion of saving lelouch, as if c.c opinion will be against saving him.


if she was on charles side, at least she would contact him, but she is simply acting against him or why did she play a ruse on Bismark, making him think that she is on charles side, then c.c comments that Marianne is smart one.



for me, i think Marianne way of talking is sarcasm,

so when she asks c.c if she (c.c) is still on "our" side, i understand it as lelouch and Marianne side, (and not on v.v and Charles side).


i think Mariane and c.c will gain an entrance or mark an escape way for lelouch , the trap ot neutralize charles and the geass issue.
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for Suzaka :

he finally grown a brain, before this episode, he was worset person in this anime (imho), i liked Luciano more than him, and even Tamaki.


all he did was killing people who fight for their freedom, enslaving them for britania, selling them, believing that if slaves uprising is destroyed quickly, the slave's suffering will decrease, thats mere nonsense, because being a number is suffering by itself, the brittanian feed on them from above, while the the best the can get is being 2nd class citizen aka honoray britanian if not living in slums as a number.


but what i fear is: all his goal is being KoO, meaning freeing his homeland, but still letting down all the areas that were enslaved by brittania.
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Kanon commented on Schnizel rebellion by saying "finally made his mind", that makes me think that Schnizel planned it all along, and he was just delaying his move till defeating zero,
it is idiotic to fight the Charles, weakening the empire (being divided into 2 warring parts) while anther country (the United federation) starting the wars of liberation.

the second he thought he got rid of zero, neutralized the japanes black Knight, and getting a meeting with the chinese part (to wash their brains), he started his own quest for the thrown,

he knew about the cult, elevator of thought, but lacked knowledge about the geass, once he gained the knowledge from suzaka, he commented by saying " now i have all the cards", and dont forget what he named fleya first time he saw its effects ....
he had his ambition from the start, i wont be surprised if he was connected to Marriane accident, and he is more more evil than his own father.

he will fight the surviver of lelouch x charles over the throne.
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cornelia telling vilita that rank is not everything, is soooo weired, if i remember correctly cornelia hates numbers, and she didnt think of them as equal to britanian, (she was the opposite of her sister) .

did she change ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow ........ old c.c is back, i wounder what she needed to do in Ikarga before before leaving ?, dont tell me she needed to get her bag !!!!!
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the funniest scene in this episode (in my view point), is the scene in which Kaguya tells that only one man can draw his blade against Charles in this time, and the need to confirm some "facts" with the japanese part of BK, that look on Ohgi and Diethard was so funny, the looked like rats in the trap . lol .

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sorry for the long rant, it is my first post here .

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by brandon279

Spoiler for some notes on the episode:

Marriane had a contract with C.C, but she failed to grant C.C wish (just like Mao).

Marirane had a geass, we can guess that it is related to controlling people or putting one's soul in anther body, (seems like Grace in macross f).

anyway, that explains how could c.c talked with her in season1 (when we all thought she was dead).

she goes into the open now, in this timing, why is that ?


if we return to season one, c.c was talking to her, she told c.c to help lelouch (at Sataima ghetto) , so lets say, Marianne was observing lelouch back then and now
but since c.c sealed her code, the link between Mariane and c.c had been broken.

so Marianne had taken this action to activate c.c, then continue the game (observing lelouch and c.c)


other reason is : she didnt agree with Charles plans, so she decided to stop him, so she decided to help lelouch personally in his struggle against charles.



people will disagree with me because Marianne referred to herself being NOT ideal mother.


but i think that line was sarcasm, and she is really good mother,
why ?

if she wanted to defeat lelouch she would not activate c.c (whom can rival charles in knowledge and power), she would NOT cover lelouch entering in geass ruins, (she fooled Bismark and let lelouch enter unnoticed by Bismark), she would NOT land near the entrance then ask C.C opinion of saving lelouch, as if c.c opinion will be against saving him.


if she was on charles side, at least she would contact him, but she is simply acting against him or why did she play a ruse on Bismark, making him think that she is on charles side, then c.c comments that Marianne is smart one.



for me, i think Marianne way of talking is sarcasm,

so when she asks c.c if she (c.c) is still on "our" side, i understand it as lelouch and Marianne side, (and not on v.v and Charles side).


i think Mariane and c.c will gain an entrance or mark an escape way for lelouch , the trap ot neutralize charles and the geass issue.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for Suzaka :

he finally grown a brain, before this episode, he was worset person in this anime (imho), i liked Luciano more than him, and even Tamaki.


all he did was killing people who fight for their freedom, enslaving them for britania, selling them, believing that if slaves uprising is destroyed quickly, the slave's suffering will decrease, thats mere nonsense, because being a number is suffering by itself, the brittanian feed on them from above, while the the best the can get is being 2nd class citizen aka honoray britanian if not living in slums as a number.


but what i fear is: all his goal is being KoO, meaning freeing his homeland, but still letting down all the areas that were enslaved by brittania.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kanon commented on Schnizel rebellion by saying "finally made his mind", that makes me think that Schnizel planned it all along, and he was just delaying his move till defeating zero,
it is idiotic to fight the Charles, weakening the empire (being divided into 2 warring parts) while anther country (the United federation) starting the wars of liberation.

the second he thought he got rid of zero, neutralized the japanes black Knight, and getting a meeting with the chinese part (to wash their brains), he started his own quest for the thrown

he will fight the surviver of lelouch x charles over the throne.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cornelia telling vilita that rank is not everything, is soooo weired, if i remember correctly cornelia hates numbers, and she didnt think of them as equal to britanian, (she was the opposite of her sister) .

did she change ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow ........ old c.c is back, i wounder what she needed to do in Ikarga before before leaving ?, dont tell me she needed to get her bag !!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the funniest scene in this episode (in my view point), is the scene in which Kaguya tells that only one man can draw his blade against Charles in this time, and the need to confirm some "facts" with the japanese part of BK, that look on Ohgi and Diethard was so funny, the looked like rats in the trap . lol .

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sorry for the long rant, it is my first post here .

Well, besides the Suzaku bashing part (which I think is very untrue and off), I pretty much agree with everything you said here.

One thing though, we still don't know what Schneizel really wants. I don't think it is brainwashing either. He just throws out the facts to get his way. Even if he turns out to be a villain, that is an interesting way for a villain to act.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Cat Megex

Well...to bring up a completely different point: who else thinks Lelouch's Geass is going to be getting an upgrade soon? *basing this on the swishy-eye thing shown in this episode, and also shown way back in the episode with Shirley after the Geass-spam*

Actually I've been wondering when Lelouch was going to get his second Geass eye.

I'm amazed that he hasn't already gained a two-eyed Geass rather than remaining with just the one.

It's been shown that it evolves from Controlled -> Uncontrolled -> Double-Uncontrolled.

Or at least sort of... I would magine that Lelouch would end up like Mao and C.C. where the Geass is ALWAYS on and active in both eyes.

[Taiyakikung]

Um.After watching the episode,a question pops up in my head"Why don't Lelouch order people to obey his order from the beginning"I have thought of this method a long time ago when S1 was on air but Lelouch hadn't done it.And then,Why now?
I also doubt that why don't he use the order he gave to Guilfort(obey me when I do this pose) with Britania soldiers.He can order them any time he want making them spies.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Taiyakikung

Um.After watching the episode,a question pops up in my head"Why don't Lelouch order people to obey his order from the beginning"I have thought of this method a long time ago when S1 was on air but Lelouch hadn't done it.And then,Why now?
I also doubt that why don't he use the order he gave to Guilfort with Britania soldiers.He can order them any time he want making them spies.

We went over this already...

[chinaman91]

She didnt activate CC, she went back to her locked memories and simply unlcoked them!?

Originally Posted by Traece

Actually I've been wondering when Lelouch was going to get his second Geass eye.

I'm amazed that he hasn't already gained a two-eyed Geass rather than remaining with just the one.

It's been shown that it evolves from Controlled -> Uncontrolled -> Double-Uncontrolled.

Or at least sort of... I would magine that Lelouch would end up like Mao and C.C. where the Geass is ALWAYS on and active in both eyes.

No he isnt gonna get a geass upgrade, the geass only grants the user one ability. To have an upgrade would be a contradiction of that statement. It is already powerful as it is and the series is near its end, why would you 'dream on' about him becoming even more powerful when the ending is coming!?

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Ah, finally got around to see th episode itself. Somehow the highlight of it may have been the emperor actually becoming unnerved by the fact that Lelouch did as he did. With the exception of episode 15, there may never have been a moment in the anime where things didn't go as expected and him being upset about it XD

[Taiyakikung]

Originally Posted by Orga777

We went over this already...

Can you post the link to those replys about these discussions?

[Narzia]

Since his Geass went permanent in R1 22, one might assume he will get his second Geass-Eye in 22.
Loved the episode. Next week.. the truth will at last be unveiled?

[chinaman91]

Say this anime is known for symbolism, anyone notice the blue billiard ball, it had the number 2!? Could it have led to a clue or anything!?

[sLum]

Originally Posted by chinaman91

Say this anime is known for symbolism, anyone notice the blue billiard ball, it had the number 2!? Could it have led to a clue or anything!?

Knight of Two is hitting the bucket?

[brandon279]

Originally Posted by Taiyakikung

Can you post the link to those replys about these discussions?

if he did that, then they will act as his soldier only by his order, doing nothing except what he orders them, they wont cooperate with each other, they will cease to be his soldiers till he gives them the next command, they become pieces with fixed moves, and they wont take a step from their own, = mindless dolls.


imagine it by this :

lelouch : my loyal soldiers, destroy that knightmare.
soldiers: yes your highness
*that knightmare is destroyed*
but then the soldiers stop and leave the rest of charging knightmares attack lelouch .


in other words, he would be very tired to give them every little move, and he cant do that for 10 soldiers .

so this kind of soldier is usefull in suicidal missions, having them as extra force not permanent soldiers .


for guilfor, it was master piece geass, where guilford will use his head to protect his princess, obey her orders, but in same time he can think about how to obey, and what to do next even he didnt take anther order.
but that depends on the fact : guilford is loyal to cornelia, so that returns us to point zero, where lelouch needs normal loyal soldiers, the necessity of raising them = making the OoBK
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for "activate", i meant her role in the plot, forgive my expression.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by brandon279

Marriane had a contract with C.C, but she failed to grant C.C wish (just like Mao).
.

My sub said that she "violated" the contract. That's not exactly failing.

And apparently something will happen, since the conversation is:


Marianne: Oh but I'm thankful to you... ... for giving me Geass.

C.C.: Even though you violated the contract...

Marianne: If that's what you really think, then come with me <<< Sounds like Marianne has something in mind

[DesuX2]

I just watched through the episode, and albeit for the slow start, there were many mind shattering scenes in this one:

In order of least "LUL WAT" to most "NO WAI!"

5. Brismack has a friggin geass, just sealed. Wow, another Sharigan user, like everyone hypothesized.
4. Lelouch's reappearance and the Sutherlands saluting him. I mean like that guy sure knows how to make an entrance. Boom! And your army kicks you from the behind when you thought "just as planned".
3. Suzaku going batshit insane again. Well, sort of expected, but not wielding a sword and pointing it at the emperor.
2. Coup de' teat from our loving second prince. The ball marked "2" also goes down the billard table. Foreshadowing something?
1. MAI WAIFU ANYA IS MARIANNE?! RAGE! Give me my lolis or give me death!

[Cytrus]

Originally Posted by brandon279

if he did that, then they will act as his soldier only by his order, doing nothing except what he orders them, they wont cooperate with each other, they will cease to be his soldiers till he gives them the next command, they become pieces with fixed moves, and they wont take a step from their own, = mindless dolls.


imagine it by this :

lelouch : my loyal soldiers, destroy that knightmare.
soldiers: yes your highness
*that knightmare is destroyed*
but then the soldiers stop and leave the rest of charging knightmares attack lelouch .


in other words, he would be very tired to give them every little move, and he cant do that for 10 soldiers .

so this kind of soldier is usefull in suicidal missions, having them as extra force not permanent soldiers .


for guilfor, it was master piece geass, where guilford will use his head to protect his princess, obey her orders, but in same time he can think about how to obey, and what to do next even he didnt take anther order.
but that depends on the fact : guilford is loyal to cornelia, so that returns us to point zero, where lelouch needs normal loyal soldiers, the necessity of raising them = making the OoBK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for "activate", i meant her role in the plot, forgive my expression.

Another thing is, if he left them with a general order like "attack the forces of Charles Di Brittania", then he killed all of them as surely as he would with the "die" command. They will never fulfill the order - even if they were to be disarmed and held in a loony hospital for the rest of their days, their zombie mode would not wear off. This was the reason why Lelouch had to kill Euphemia - because her mind was effectively killed by the geass order issued.

[holyman282]

I was quite surprised also that Anya was marianne, I'm feeling sort of disillusioned here.......

Overally good ep, Lelouch proves he can still kick ass even without the order and Kaguya crying was just awwww..

[Un1234l]

**** I GOT SPOILED JUST BY 3 WORDS WHEN I WAS SCROLLING DOWN

I've only seen the first minute or so as I'm typing this, but I must say, I'm really liking Suzaku's heel face turn.

[Sinn]

Does anyone realised Ougi being a bigger ass than the previous one?

[Yorae_paladin1]

This be one excellent ep Lelouch no longer hodling back and Suzaku losing his naivette although he should have done that earlier. Very nice