Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (take 3)

[Revolutionist]

I didn't think the day would come when I'd look forward to Lancelot making a sortie against the Black Knights.

I hope they don't turn on Schneizel and fight to the death. The body count needs to be high, ans Suzaku needs to obliterate them all.

Whatever Zero Requiem is has to succeed, and No I don't think it's a suicide plan. I'm thinking more along the lines of take over the world and change it from within type deal.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I didn't think the day would come when I'd look forward to Lancelot making a sortie against the Black Knights.

I hope they don't turn on Schneizel and fight to the death. The body count needs to be high, ans Suzaku needs to obliterate them all.

Whatever Zero Requiem is has to succeed, and No I don't think it's a suicide plan. I'm thinking more along the lines of take over the world and change it from within type deal.

Doubt it, take over the world is not much better then Schneizel then, I'm more along the lines of where instead of enforcing peace, make people realize the necessity of standing up for peace themselves. Schneizel was right about how people long to rid the world of its problems but do nothing about it, don't even try to understand one another. In this case, I think Lelouch is seeking to break down such a barrier, and instead of forcing people he will instead inspire them, in a sense anyway. I also find this in keeping with his rhetoric about the need for individual will, and how people must want peace in order for it to be in a sense real and worthwhile.

[kari-no-sugata]

Originally Posted by Narona

Yep and when lelouch said:

'There is nothing that I and Suzaku can't do. But Schneizel is standing against us, with Freyas being the greatest threat. But I hold the final card, and it is in Schneizel's heart itself.'

IMO it means that the Card is already into the Damocles. And It can only be Diethart!

The quetsion is, when did lelouch contacted him? Or Diethart contacted him when lelouch became Emperor, maybe?

The word used in Japanese for "heart" is as in mind/personality/emotions.

[Shuuda]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata

The word used in Japanese for "heart" is as in mind/personality/emotions.

... So Lelouch is going to use Kanon against him?

[aurr]

><
And for once i thought the spoiler Cornelia being the new empress was real....

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

I didn't think the day would come when I'd look forward to Lancelot making a sortie against the Black Knights.

I hope they don't turn on Schneizel and fight to the death. The body count needs to be high, ans Suzaku needs to obliterate them all.

Whatever Zero Requiem is has to succeed, and No I don't think it's a suicide plan. I'm thinking more along the lines of take over the world and change it from within type deal.

so what, the standard unified earthsphere plan? 0_o

[Var]

Originally Posted by Asleep

Didn't they say it would spoil the series for us if we knew the name?

Not unless C.C. turns out to be Lelouch's great great great grandmother or something. I don't see how her name could spoil much of anything unless she's related to Lelouch.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by ashlay

so what, the standard unified earthsphere plan? 0_o

Meh, I'm more convinced its along the lines of the Celestial Being/Treize Khushrenada plan myself >_>

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Meh, I'm more convinced its along the lines of the Celestial Being/Treize Khushrenada plan myself >_>

Treize has nothing to do with CB. Treize performed a coup de'tat on the whole world.

[sLum]

This:

I was incredibly saddened by Cornelia going out like a punk in this past episode. It certainly did a good job of making Schneizel look incredibly evil, but then I looked back on what it is Schneizel is doing.

Now that I know Schneizel's intent, I have decided that I am rooting for him in this war. Unlike the naively idealistic Charles and Lelouch, Schneizel relies neither on ancient occult tricks nor the idiotic idea that somehow a temporary unification against Lelouch will last longer than a month. Schneizel's method not only preserves people's free will (something neither Charles nor Lelouch seem to care much for), but actually looks like it would WORK (something that can't be said of Lelouch's plan unless he plans to just Geass the whole world or some nonsense like that, at which point he might as well be Charles). On top of all this, Schneizel needs no weak attempt at rationalising what he's doing as something it's not - he knows exactly what he's doing, he's aware of the ramifications, and he's willing to go through with it. Unlike the foolish Charles and Lelouch, who spent their lives looking to the future with no regard for the present, Schneizel is conscious of the restrictions the current world has and has formed his plan accordingly. It may not be pretty and I may not ever want that to happen in the real world, but quite frankly, it's the best alternative between what the three psychopathic Chess players in this show have put forth. He has a much better idea of what the big picture is than anyone else in this series, and I hope Lelouch's fixation on antagonising his brother as simply an opponent to his plans will be his downfall.

-Discerptor

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

Treize has nothing to do with CB. Treize performed a coup de'tat on the whole world.

No, I meant something similar along those lines. They both did achieve a similar result by turning much of the worlds opinion through a realization, not where they actually ruled through abject fear and enforcement of such an ideal, but where they purposefully stirred the people of the world to pursue it themselves and put an end to war for good >_>

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

No, I meant something similar along those lines. They both did achieve a similar result by turning much of the worlds opinion through a realization, not where they actually ruled through abject fear and enforcement of such an ideal, but where they purposefully stirred the people of the world to pursue it themselves and put an end to war for good >_>

CB did rule through abject fear, they imposed their will openly on every nation that was at war. The world took up arms to destroy them.

Treize never ruled through fear, he simply subverted the wills of every key player and pocketed the world before lunch. Hence why, at the end, the world was united under him, not against him.

[Pink-chan]

The co-relative chart is not updated yet. Sunrise sure didn't want to give out too much information.

[bladeofdarkness]

my take on this
in the preview we see
a)kallen on the avalon ready to kill lulu
b)the lancelot in the sky shooting
c)lulu and C.C talking in the avalon's hanger
d)lelouch sitting on a chair while looking pissed off
e)a huge friya blast taking out many of lulu's units on rader

we also know that suzaku and kallen would fight this ep since the summeries say so
and we know that nina is working on a friya related thing
since she mentioned a limiter in ep 23 im guessing its a device meant to prevent friya bombs from reaching critical mass and exploding

here is my spec of things that happen

the device nina is building is meant to be instelled on the shinkiro to allow lulu to lead his troops against the democles while preventing them from getting nuked
he keeps using his troops to block friya's aimed at him while wating for nina to finish and have the device installed on the shinkiro (scene d and e)

after its installed he and C.C go to the hanger to get ready and leave to attack the democles
they meanwhile talk about things and this is where we see scene c

while lulu is getting ready to go kallen breaks in and we have scene a
she and lelouch talk for a little while when she has him at claw point (she cant bring herself to kill him,even if she didnt love him there is no way kallen kills an unarmed man with her knightmare in a manner that only fits people like luciano) and she asks what he is doing, he starts telling her some of the facts (maybe even telling her what she really means to him) and she may end up asking him why he didnt ask her to help him (if the plan really is to destroy shnizel and himself then he'll tell her that,possibly resulting in the gum line)
but here is the importent thing
the guren is standing right between lelouch and the shinkiro
and with the lancelot outside (no way would they have the final battle indoors when you have such a nice smoke filled sky scene b) C.C steps in and not so much saves him from kallen as gets kallen out of the way for him to get to the shinkiro
since there is no way in hell C.C can force kallen to move using KMF combat (the lancelot has no hope even if its was suzaku piloting it) and if they fight for any length of time lulu would not reach the shinkiro (he'll be in danger of being crashed)
im guessing C.C does the only thing she can do in order to keep kallen there and thats to use a mental attack (like the one she used on suzaku and anya)
she tells lulu to go possibly using her gum line and tells him that she'll keep kallen there (both to keep her from stopping his plan, and to keep her safe)
lulu goes and C.C stays with kallen and the two start talking in the world of C (or what ever you call her mind world) kallen questions what is going on and why C.C wont stop him
after a while she may convince C.C to help her stop him
C.C lets her go and they both set out to stop lulu
meanwhile suzaku and lelouch are on the way to the democles but since they found out the guren is back in teh battle field (and since its much faster then the shinkiro suzaku stays behind telling lulu to go and finish what they started while he keeps kallen from interfering with the plan
kallen stays to fight suzaku while C.C goes on to the democles

and then you have a strange situation where both suzaku AND kallen are on lulu's side but while suzaku is fighting to protect lulus plan kallen is fighting to defend lulu from it
lulu's sword and shield (no matter how you look at it,kallen is lulu's shield) fighting each other and both for lulu

in the fight between them there is one factor that we have all always assumed will grant suzaku the victory and that is the LIVE geass command
but while the LIVE command helps him win in battle
its not what its ment to do
its to make him live no matter what, and if this fight takes place after kallen learns the truth about the plan then i dont think she would be trying to kill him anymore
she would be trying to get him to pull his head out of his ass and help her save lulu's and his own lives
its possible that when the command triggers (which we know it will) then rather then making him kill kallen
it could end up making him give up the fight (drop his weapons,end the fight) since by letting the plan continue means death for both him and lelouch
its a long shot but the battle has to turn against shnizel at some point and they both have to be part of it

the reason i think this script is likely is that
a)they always try to fuck us with the preview
si having kallen threaten lulu in the same ep where we know she and suzaku are fighting one another is a good way to hide the fact that she is fighting him to defend lulu and not attack him
b)kallen is the only main character not yet in on the plan and there is no way in hell that she hears about shnizel's plan on the radio like a mook
c)we need a use for all the character development she had all season (the talks with nunnaly, the picture book)
d)kallen has to do something that makes her bond with lelouch as importent as its cracked up to be

i am also posting this on the kallen thread but i think this might fit better here

[Diedrupo]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Doubt it, take over the world is not much better then Schneizel then, I'm more along the lines of where instead of enforcing peace, make people realize the necessity of standing up for peace themselves. Schneizel was right about how people long to rid the world of its problems but do nothing about it, don't even try to understand one another. In this case, I think Lelouch is seeking to break down such a barrier, and instead of forcing people he will instead inspire them, in a sense anyway. I also find this in keeping with his rhetoric about the need for individual will, and how people must want peace in order for it to be in a sense real and worthwhile.

This is pretty much the same as what the person described, "taking over the world to change it". It may be an unconventional way of going about doing it but it still accomplishes the same thing.

What Lelouch is doing is not a good thing, but it's still perfectly in-line with his character and always has been. At this point though, he's just the lesser of two evils, set up that way by Sunrise so the audience wouldn't root against him like they did to Light Yagami in Death Note.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

CB did rule through abject fear, they imposed their will openly on every nation that was at war. The world took up arms to destroy them.

Treize never ruled through fear, he simply subverted the wills of every key player and pocketed the world before lunch. Hence why, at the end, the world was united under him, not against him.

And that was their aim all along was it not? To rule was simply a means in which to inspire others to rule themselves

But that wasn't what he was aiming for in the end, his aim wasn't to actually rule himself or bring about the illusion of peace in his rule, but to stir people to the goal he wished for them to accomplish.

The means were a bit different, but in terms of underlying objective, a world peace based on real peace where people themselves choose it and maintain it as such, was what I was trying to tie in to Lelouch's Zero Reqiuem.

Originally Posted by Diedrupo

This is pretty much the same as what the person described, "taking over the world to change it". It may be an unconventional way of going about doing it but it still accomplishes the same thing.

What Lelouch is doing is not a good thing, but it's still perfectly in-line with his character and always has been. At this point though, he's just the lesser of two evils, set up that way by Sunrise so the audience wouldn't root against him like they did to Light Yagami in Death Note.

Despite whatever criticisms one may have of his methods, one cannot deny the results of it. That I believe, is more then sufficient, where instead of Lights illusion of peace under which he ruled and controlled through fear, Lelouch will instead bring people to decide for themselves that such a course is worth pursuing. Specifically, I disagreed on the part where he actually takes over the world, versus him waking up the world in a sense.

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

And that was their aim all along was it not? To rule was simply a means in which to inspire others to rule themselves

But that wasn't what he was aiming for in the end, his aim wasn't to actually rule himself or bring about the illusion of peace in his rule, but to stir people to the goal he wished for them to accomplish.

The means were a bit different, but in terms of underlying objective, a world peace based on real peace where people themselves choose it and maintain it as such, was what I was trying to tie in to Lelouch's Zero Reqiuem.

My point is that they are incomparable because of the methods. Treize is nothing like CB in that he did not need to subjugate people for them to realize the shit going on in the world. Treize showed everyone the light by pointing it out to them and giving his life for the idea.

CB beat everyone into a pulp and dragged them to the light.

Zero Requiem seems to fall somewhere in the middle since the common person loves Lelouch for his actions, while the UFN hates him for the fact that he took their leaders hostage and has Geass.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

My point is that they are incomparable because of the methods. Treize is nothing like CB in that he did not need to subjugate people for them to realize the shit going on in the world. Treize showed everyone the light by pointing it out to them and giving his life for the idea.

CB beat everyone into a pulp and dragged them to the light.

Zero Requiem seems to fall somewhere in the middle since the common person loves Lelouch for his actions, while the UFN hates him for the fact that he took their leaders hostage and has Geass.

Well, basically, I just wanted to point out that despite the variations and objective was still the same, and not in the same way like Light or Schneizel tried either. I do agree though that Lelouch does fall in the middle in this respect between the two camps, but in the end the desired result is still probably the same one I imagine

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Well, basically, I just wanted to point out that despite the variations and objective was still the same, and not in the same way like Light or Schneizel tried either. I do agree though that Lelouch does fall in the middle in this respect between the two camps, but in the end the desired result is still probably the same one I imagine

And in the end Treize did it the best. He had neither overpowered Gundams nor magical powers.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

And in the end Treize did it the best. He had neither overpowered Gundams nor magical powers.

Meh, we can't all be like Treize, have to make do with every advantage you can get