Vampire Knight Manga Discussion

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by PreSage

Wow...that's cruel.

And what about the love, protection, and loyalty we see purebloods exhibit? - like the love between Juuri and Haruka that had lasted for nearly 3000 years? And the sacrifice they made to protect their children and each other? The love that Kaname feels for Yuuki? The loyalty and familial love that Yuuki feels for Zero? The trust and faith Yuuki has for her human friend Yuri and her determination to protect the Day class?

Of all this, do we see all purebloods as mere nightmarish creatures seeking only human blood and flesh? Or do we see a large sense of humanity in them?

Just because Zero's tragic past and his current situation was caused by some purebloods, does not make it right to put all purebloods into this category and slaughter them all senseless. There are good vampires and bad vampires; just as there are good humans and bad humans. To punish the purebloods would also mean to punish the Vampire Hunters, as they are all equally blamed in this war.

As a consequentialist this is fairly irrelevant in my mind. Yes, all purebloods are not evil and have as much good and evil as a normal human. I don't deny this. The ability to turn humans into vampires though is one that will only in the end cause suffering to others like Zero. Since pureblood are the only ones capable of doing this I can understand why killing them would be beneficial. The possibility of them turning large amount of human into vampire, which seems to have been done in the past, is a danger worth sacrificing the few for the many.

[arsinoe74]

[QUOTE=Slick_rick;2069149]

I'm certain Yuki would like to be considered his "savior" to feel more self-important but she is far from it. She is the one that really complicated this situation. Zero was content to only seek revenge on Shizuka for what she did to him and his family. It was the manipulations by Kaname, Rido killing his brother, and the loss of Yuki that ultimately increased his desire to slaughter every pureblood. His experience with them shaped this desire. Zero might have likely died in his quest for revenge with Shizuka but then again at least he would have died for his own sake instead of having to latch onto Yuki so she could feel better about herself.

Wanting to help Zero is not wrong but the way she does it doesn't actually help him. Zero is kept back by Yuki he has become dependent on her and she doesn't plan on ever letting him go. Yuki abuses Zero's weakness for herself, she doesn't have to physically stop him as she can defeat him easily with her words. I have no problem with her wanting him to stay by his side either but again the way she does it doesn't make me like her much. While I do understand why she does certain things that doesn't mean I like what she does.

I'd like to see this from a different perspective. Though I do agree that Yuuki is somewhat like the Achilles heel for both Kaname and Zero.And she may have complicated things between them.but I don’t believe that Yuuki,caring for Zero, preventing him from chasing his stupid fantasies of seeking out, an all powerful pureblood who single handedly wipe out both Zero’s parents (who were said to be, 2 of the best hunters in the field) in a single fortnight, is a bad thing. Any true friend would do it for a friend or a sibling.To label such concern as for self importance only, seemed to make it, like were are marring/underestimating love for a friend or the bonds of friendship
How can we be certain Yuuki, caring for Zero helping him cope up with his trauma, did t all for self gratification .Did’nt chapter 44 show a bit of how selfless Yuuki is. An innocent child with no memory of her past, Do you think she could have acted such a thing just for self gratification, she still manage to smile and comfort him,even if he was really mean to her. And Zero realizes that in chapter 44, that’s why he was starting to have second thoughts. If what yuuki said in
http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/34/13/ can actually justify her good intentions toward Zero as for selfish reasons, again I’m not convince. Yuuki was rather confuse at that time, she doesn’t understand why she has had such constant bloody hallucination, she probably correlate it to something evil related to her past, and when she unknowingly attacks Zero.It’s her insecurity and fears talking that time, putting the blame all to herself, wallowing in self pity blaming all of Zero’s miseries on her . It's not Yuuki's fault that Zero is too reliant on her.Zero fell for Yuuki on his own accord, blame it on Zero's weakness for being controlled by her ,or on his desires to give in to her,to please her in someway .It's never yuuki's intention to manipulate Zero.Zero is in this mess ,by his accord.It's not right to blame other people for our miseries.It's his fault for giving in to his weakness and insecurities.

Even though Zero knows Kaname is manipulating him he can't do anything about it because of his feeling for Yuki. He's not the type that would normally be manipulated but his Achilles’ heel has always been Yuki. He needs to break free of her sometime and make up his own mind. Don't do it for Yuki's sake due it for his own sake.

Again I think it’s all not all for Yuuki, early on Zero was’nt entirely sure what Kaname’s plans are. He was’nt all sure how he is manipulated by Kaname, so he is hesitant to act, Until only later, when Kaname told him, how he fits in his plan. Thats probably,among other things that fueled his pureblood genocidal stunt.

The thing is I think Kaname would not truly oppose Yuki on any matter openly if he felt she would hate him because of it. He might do some backdoor dealings/trickery to get the same ends but he would keep it from her. He wants happiness (not that I blame him) but equates it too much with Yuki being with him. I think he's a very lonely person even though oddly enough he's often surrounded by people who care for him.

It’s not the right time to tell Yuuki about his plans, she being human,with no memories of her past .How could the human Yuuki understand.It’s Probably part of the reason why Yuuki said that Kaname always looks so sad when he is with her. He probably wants to tell her. But cant at that point in time . I did’nt see any proof yet that Kaname intentionally wants to use Zero since the beginning. He was not the one who brought Zero to Chairman cross. Zero was just there at the right time for the right reason,And it’s not as if Kaname use trickery to have Zero to care for Yuuki. Zero just fall for yuuki on his own. So Kaname thought… there is this one person who love Yuuki as much as he does and could protect Yuuki by killing Rido,the way Kaname could’nt, so why not make him stronger. He is about to fall to level E anyway,so in a way he is helping him by keeping him alive and sane. Kaname protects Yuuki not for his own happiness but for hers. He never force his love on her’s saying “She was born to be her fiancée,but that is only ifshe she stills desire it. But nonetheless He showed her in everyway that he loved her. He was willing live a sinister future for her. I think Kaname might have predicted this chaos in chapter 45 that’s why he wants to spare Yuuki from it. But Yuuki wanted to stay,and I don’t think that he stayed all because he fears that she would hate him, lets give Kaname’s intelligence more credit than that. No amount of persuasion could have made yuuki ,leave the academy anyway(All the people that mattered to her are in that school).Even if he forced her. She would find every way to escape him and return,thus making the matters worst. So Kaname had to stay, to watch over and protect her…And when Yuuki was awakened as a vampire theres no right time to tell Yuuki ,since chaos was already, stirring and was about to become fullblown

[Torri_fay_torren@hot]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Wanting to help Zero is not wrong but the way she does it doesn't actually help him. Zero is kept back by Yuki he has become dependent on her and she doesn't plan on ever letting him go. Yuki abuses Zero's weakness for herself, she doesn't have to physically stop him as she can defeat him easily with her words. I have no problem with her wanting him to stay by his side either but again the way she does it doesn't make me like her much. While I do understand why she does certain things that doesn't mean I like what she does.

It's been I awhile but doesn't she start giving him blood after she sees how much pain he is in? She sees that he is suffering and so she releaves it. Doesn't she stop Zero from killing Shizuka so that she can get Shizukas blood for Zero, so that Zero can be saved? If her plan had worked Yuuki would have freeded Zero. And doesn't she try to let him go right after she becaums a vampire when she realizes that Zero will hate her?

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

The only time Zero was ever close to suicidal was after he bit Yuki. He might have a death wish but that is very different. He was planning on leaving the school to finish off Shizuka but it was Yuki who held him back. She offered him her blood and the promise to kill him when he went crazy. He was ready to face his problems but she held him back and instead became his crutch.

You must have forgotten when he was younger and he used to cut himself. Any real friend would try to stop someone from commiting suicide. Wether or not he used a gun or he used Shizuka, in the end he was still trying to kill himself. Thats not a step forward. Insted of killing himself with a gun, he desides to die fighting Shizuka. Either way he is dead. That's not a healthy way to move forward.

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Yes, he does accept her blood but I don't think feeling "sorry for himself" is wrong in his situation. I have no problem with Yuki trying to help him but she does not in fact want him to move forward. She is the one who in fact encourages him to be reliant on her. Yuki is Zero's drug dealer who comes to him at his weakest to offer him "help" to forget his problems. Yuki even seeks him out. Is all her fault? No, but I can sympathize with the addict more than the drug dealer who got them hooked in the first place and doesn't want to let go.

He needed her blood to live, without it he would be dead by now. You don't like the way she did it? That was the only way to save him.

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

It is a facade even if that who he wants to be, it's not who he is. He can pretend to be ignorant of things going on as much as he knows. Shizuka, the student whose blood was sucked, and Rido, all of these things have put day students in danger. He would overlook them to achieve this peace but forgets that the day student don't even understand the risk they put themselves in. How many students could have been killed with Rido attack? The only thing that saved them was honestly the mangaka not wanting to kill them off. If a large group like that had attacked in reality there would certainly be large casualties from both sides not just Rido's.

It's not Cross' fault that Rido decided he wanted to start killing people. That's Rido's fault. And anyway, he wouldn't have botherd going there in the first place had Yuuki not been there. Was Cross just supposed to hand her over?
Shizuke was actually Kanames choice because he's the one in charge of the Vampires. Cross didn't decide that. And it was a good thing that Kaname allowed Shizuka to show up. His choice gave Kaname more power to protect the school against the hunters society and the Vampire council. And of course Kaname left a way for Zero to be cured. All Cross did was get the Night Class and the Day class together. Besides one incedent were the person is fine the Night class has been saving them from the real bad guys.

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I don't think Zero needs to feel like Cross honestly. He has no reason to like vampires and it's not wrong for him not to like them. Purebloods themselves pushed him towards him current mindset so I could care less if he slaughters them. Killing all the purebloods is a goal I think he could find a purpose in and I don't think it would be bad for the future. Without purebloods then no other human would be turned into a vampire.

Zero doesn't have to like them. He just has to stop wanting to kill people who have never done anything to him.
Zero has the right to kill innocent pure bloods because his family was killed?
If that is the case then Shizuke had the right to kill Zero's parents and torture zero by chaning him because her lover was killed.
In this way everybody ends up dead. This is what Cross and Kaname want to stop. But you know what, Shizuka was manipulated by The HUNTER'S Society and RIDO to kill his parents. Those people are the ones that are really responsible. Those are the people that really need to be stoped. Zero hates the wrong people.

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

As a consequentialist this is fairly irrelevant in my mind. Yes, all purebloods are not evil and have as much good and evil as a normal human. I don't deny this. The ability to turn humans into vampires though is one that will only in the end cause suffering to others like Zero. Since pureblood are the only ones capable of doing this I can understand why killing them would be beneficial. The possibility of them turning large amount of human into vampire, which seems to have been done in the past, is a danger worth sacrificing the few for the many.

And anybody who has a gun should be exacuted because they might kill somebody. There's nothing wrong about that because somebody shot a little boy before. The purebloods can't help that they have this ability. But they have to die now because they do? People die all the time, but if you do something that extreme everytime, then your going to have more suffering. People should only be judged for there own sins not the sins of others.

[Starry Dust]

Originally Posted by arsinoe74

I'd like to see this from a different perspective. Though I do agree that Yuuki is somewhat like the Achilles heel for both Kaname and Zero.And she may have complicated things between them.but I don’t believe that Yuuki,caring for Zero, preventing him from chasing his stupid fantasies of seeking out, an all powerful pureblood who single handedly wipe out both Zero’s parents (who were said to be, 2 of the best hunters in the field) in a single fortnight, is a bad thing. Any true friend would do it for a friend or a sibling.To label such concern as for self importance only, seemed to make it, like were are marring/underestimating love for a friend or the bonds of friendship

How can we be certain Yuuki, caring for Zero helping him cope up with his trauma, did t all for self gratification .Did’nt chapter 44 show a bit of how selfless Yuuki is. An innocent child with no memory of her past, Do you think she could have acted such a thing just for self gratification, she still manage to smile and comfort him,even if he was really mean to her. And Zero realizes that in chapter 44, that’s why he was starting to have second thoughts. If what yuuki said in
http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/34/13/ can actually justify her good intentions toward Zero as for selfish reasons, again I’m not convince. Yuuki was rather confuse at that time, she doesn’t understand why she has had such constant bloody hallucination, she probably correlate it to something evil related to her past, and when she unknowingly attacks Zero.It’s her insecurity and fears talking that time, putting the blame all to herself, wallowing in self pity blaming all of Zero’s miseries on her . It's not Yuuki's fault that Zero is too reliant on her.Zero fell for Yuuki on his own accord, blame it on Zero's weakness for being controlled by her ,or on his desires to give in to her,to please her in someway .It's never yuuki's intention to manipulate Zero.Zero is in this mess ,by his accord.It's not right to blame other people for our miseries.It's his fault for giving in to his weakness and insecurities.

Oh, I would't blame the whole thing on Zero.

I believe they're BOTH at fault.
Like they say, Ignorance is Bliss.

Sure we can say Yuuki is caring in her actions and words but she's very blinded by her own kindness. Yuuki is too kind and selfless for her own good. Like you mentioned before, Yuuki was indeed a confused child who had no past or memory to really rely on. That can be really scary but that's her weakness, overdoing it. She can't help it you might say but there's nothing bad from learning from your bad habits and not to repeat them. I believe Zero tried to point out that bad habit of hers when he found out that Yuuki wanted to give her blood to Shizuka in order to save him. He was disgusted and wasn't pleased at all. Even from there on, she still acts too kind and forgiving to others.

Yes, Zero's an idiot for relying on Yuuki so much but Yuuki made it "OK" for him to do that. I know Yuuki was trying to help him but there's a "good" kind of help treatment and a "bad" kind of help treatment and I see it as a MIX of the two. Of course she wasn't going to let him go blood thirsty and weak but it came to a point where it was just an everyday daily routine. It's like giving a child too much candy. You know taking it away can help the factor but once you feel gulity for it, you give in and INSIST to the child it's ok to eat alot of candy even though you know it can worsen the case later on. She didn't really allow Zero to stand on his own to feet ( that's also his own fault too )

And that's the cause and effect.
As kids it was necessary to comfort because they both needed eachother's support but it became quite a dangerous unstable state once they got older. Zero became too attached on his own fault but Yuuki added more to it. Friends can be your worse kind of treatment since they can't help but sympathize for you 24/7.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Torri_fay_torren@hot

It's been I awhile but doesn't she start giving him blood after she sees how much pain he is in? She sees that he is suffering and so she releaves it. Doesn't she stop Zero from killing Shizuka so that she can get Shizukas blood for Zero, so that Zero can be saved? If her plan had worked Yuuki would have freeded Zero. And doesn't she try to let him go right after she becaums a vampire when she realizes that Zero will hate her?

Yuki wouldn't haven't have freed Zero if her plan worked. If her planned worked he wouldn't have ever fallen to Level E but that not the same thing as freeing him. Living as a vampire is not what Zero desires. Her doing what she did would only has made him live an existence he does not desire. In the end she wants him to live but he only lives for her sake and in the end still doesn't live for his own purpose.

You must have forgotten when he was younger and he used to cut himself. Any real friend would try to stop someone from commiting suicide. Wether or not he used a gun or he used Shizuka, in the end he was still trying to kill himself. Thats not a step forward. Insted of killing himself with a gun, he desides to die fighting Shizuka. Either way he is dead. That's not a healthy way to move forward.

I didn't forget. People who cut themselves are not suicidal. People who cut themselves dull out emotional pain with physical pain. This is leaps and bounds from being suicidal. He doesn't want to be a vampire and in the end wants to get revenge and end it all. Should he condemn himself to be something he hates just for Yuki's sake? Which is what he has been doing. A man should have the right to chose how he lives his life and how he dies.

He needed her blood to live, without it he would be dead by now. You don't like the way she did it? That was the only way to save him.

She didn't save him. He's alive sure but that doesn't mean he is anyway saved. He only lives for her sake but in the beyond that he has no other real goals or purpose. Such is a far crueler fate she condemned him to especially with the fact in the end with who she turned out to be.

It's not Cross' fault that Rido decided he wanted to start killing people. That's Rido's fault. And anyway, he wouldn't have botherd going there in the first place had Yuuki not been there. Was Cross just supposed to hand her over?
Shizuke was actually Kanames choice because he's the one in charge of the Vampires. Cross didn't decide that. And it was a good thing that Kaname allowed Shizuka to show up. His choice gave Kaname more power to protect the school against the hunters society and the Vampire council. And of course Kaname left a way for Zero to be cured. All Cross did was get the Night Class and the Day class together. Besides one incedent were the person is fine the Night class has been saving them from the real bad guys.

Cross knew the danger of what he did but the student he has don't. Rido might be at fault but in the end Cross knew that something like this would eventually happen. Yuki should have been gone from the school a long time ago. If Kaname and Cross seen what danger laid in wait for the school a long time before Rido attacked. They had awoken Yuki and take her away then. Why didn't they? Probably for their promise with Juri but in the end they put lives in danger and caused a lot of pain especially to Zero. Both knew in the end what she was and how it would hurt Zero but they only thought of their own selfish desires. Juri is a rotting corpse, does fulfilling her goal mean you have to hurt people and risk lives, Cross?

Zero doesn't have to like them. He just has to stop wanting to kill people who have never done anything to him.
Zero has the right to kill innocent pure bloods because his family was killed?
If that is the case then Shizuke had the right to kill Zero's parents and torture zero by chaning him because her lover was killed.
In this way everybody ends up dead. This is what Cross and Kaname want to stop. But you know what, Shizuka was manipulated by The HUNTER'S Society and RIDO to kill his parents. Those people are the ones that are really responsible. Those are the people that really need to be stoped. Zero hates the wrong people.

Far different circumstances. Shizuka killing Zero's parents didn't accomplish anything. Revenge might be a motivation for Zero but the goal is fairly meaningful. Shizuka killing Zero parents only spread more hate and in the end didn't stop what was going on. Zero plan would stop human vampire from ever again being possible. This will stop a lot of suffering to come.

And anybody who has a gun should be exacuted because they might kill somebody. There's nothing wrong about that because somebody shot a little boy before. The purebloods can't help that they have this ability. But they have to die now because they do? People die all the time, but if you do something that extreme everytime, then your going to have more suffering. People should only be judged for there own sins not the sins of others.

Killing everyone who has the ability to kill would be pointless. That would essentially mean killing the entire human race. If you kill everyone then they'd be no one to protect so you actually didn't accomplish anything except senseless slaughter with no purpose. Whether they have sinned is irrelevant. How many pureblood are in world? At most what 100, if anywhere close to that? They live thousands of years and can turn armies of people in human vampires. Would I violate the rights of the few to live for the many? Absolutely. If all vampires could turn humans in vampire then I would reconsider. They must be thousands if not 10's or 100's of thousands of vampires. Then it would be fairly pointless to kill them.

[Queeny]

hmm

I wanna ask something about the anime ver :

Spoiler for Only for who watch VKG till ep 5:

Zero did saw a vision of a man ..
" see the link down there to get what I mean "

&

Spoiler for something appear in VKG Ep 8:

when Yuuki turns to a vampire , "just like the manga" she saw a monster + in the anime Ver ... yuuki saw the same vision as zero for the same man ...

could that be kaname ?? or rido ??

here

" sorry , I've tried to make it clear .. so this is the result , since it's from a raw "

anyway...
scary !! I hope it's not kaname ...
if it's him , I think it's the Old kuran .. or something about the curse or whatever...

[vVReinaVv]

I'm a bit confused...
In one of the chapters, Hanabusa declared his love (?) for Kaname when he was younger, so...
Was he meaning that he was actually in love with him in a romantic way, or did he just admire him a lot?

[PreSage]

Originally Posted by Queeny

hmm

I wanna ask something about the anime ver :

Spoiler for Only for who watch VKG till ep 5:

Zero did saw a vision of a man ..
" see the link down there to get what I mean "

&

Spoiler for something appear in VKG Ep 8:

when Yuuki turns to a vampire , "just like the manga" she saw a monster + in the anime Ver ... yuuki saw the same vision as zero for the same man ...

could that be kaname ?? or rido ??

here

" sorry , I've tried to make it clear .. so this is the result , since it's from a raw "

anyway...
scary !! I hope it's not kaname ...
if it's him , I think it's the Old kuran .. or something about the curse or whatever...

I don't think that's Kaname. It doesn't resemble him at all. It could be a Vampire Hunter? or Rido.

[Queeny]

@PreSage

Spoiler for about VKG anime ver & The man Pic:

Originally Posted by PreSage

I don't think that's Kaname. It doesn't resemble him at all. It could be a Vampire Hunter? or Rido.

I was afraid when I saw the long coat !! but you are right .. it's not like him
" the anime draw ...... No comment "

hmmm....
you know , when I stare at it agan and again, It's make me think it's something from the past
maybe kaname the only one who saw this , so that's why zero and yuuki the ones
who drink from his blood gets to see it too ~

maybe it's really rido when he revive kaname from his coffin

anyway...
since the anime draw not good as the manga , and some of the characters have strange look sometimes , I'll stick with what i think up there

thank you PreSage

[arsinoe74]

[QUOTE=BunnyCupCakes;2071756]

Oh, I would't blame the whole thing on Zero.

I believe they're BOTH at fault.
Like they say, Ignorance is Bliss.

You got a point, I stand corrected. They are both at fault . Human yuuki is weak I just hope vampire Yuuki will be stronger and less dense. And I hope she will not end up like those typical weak indecisive,annoying shojo heroine.Who always needs a hero to protect her. And always lead the heroes into more trouble with her stupid decisions. But then I have faith in her ,she's a Kuran after all. It will be cool if Miss Hino will give us a stronger ,smarter heroine who will put to shame any stereotypical shojo heroine.

could that be kaname ?? or rido ??

I think it's Rido heres an explaination fom sagakure's journal,she explains it better than I ever could http://sagakure.livejournal.com/287270.html#cutid1

[Queeny]

@arsinoe74

I think it's Rido heres an explaination fom sagakure's journal,she explains it better than I ever could http://sagakure.livejournal.com/287270.html#cutid1

thank you , I did look at the pic for a long time and think more and more..
and now I think it's rido .. " check my reply up there , cuz I did wrote something
about it "

and , Ididn't know that sagakure wrote about ep 8 @@ !!
cool I'll go and read about it

I love to read her Comments , she's good =)

thank you again ~

[arsinoe74]

Glad to help.You should visit her main web page ( http://sagakure.livejournal.com/) it's filled with vampire knight related stuff ,summaries, news, fan art etc. I find it very entertaining .

[Queeny]

Originally Posted by arsinoe74

Glad to help.You should visit her main web page ( http://sagakure.livejournal.com/) it's filled with vampire knight related stuff ,summaries, news, fan art etc. I find it very entertaining .

yeah , I know her web page and from time to time I check it to read or
get some stuff for VK

I love Her Page , it's good for VK Fans =)

[freedomrulez]

About the monstor thing;

http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/36/20/

It's not Rido. Anime altered the scene a little bit to make it less confusing. You can see Rido awakening Kaname whose been sealed away. My best bet is that the monster is actually Kaname's superior form. This is why Yuuki was able to see the vision of that monster while drinking the blood of Kaname. And then Kaname asked her if she saw something scary as if he knew exactly what she saw in her vision. Besides, that orchid symbol reprents the Kurans lineage. Given that Kaname was the founder of Kurans, it makes sense to throw that sign in (which is chained) to symbolize that he is sealed in his grave. Except the chained orchid simply means that it took a lot of effort to put him in his grave.

[PreSage]

Originally Posted by freedomrulez

About the monstor thing;

http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/36/20/

It's not Rido. Anime altered the scene a little bit to make it less confusing. You can see Rido awakening Kaname whose been sealed away. My best bet is that the monster is actually Kaname's superior form. This is why Yuuki was able to see the vision of that monster while drinking the blood of Kaname. And then Kaname asked her if she saw something scary as if he knew exactly what she saw in her vision. Besides, that orchid symbol reprents the Kurans lineage. Given that Kaname was the founder of Kurans, it makes sense to throw that sign in (which is chained) to symbolize that he is sealed in his grave. Except the chained orchid simply means that it took a lot of effort to put him in his grave.

Or could it be that what she saw is her own memory returning? Because drinking Kaname's blood was what awakened her and returned her memories.

However, your guess that it could be Kaname's superior form may be quite right.

[freedomrulez]

Originally Posted by PreSage

Or could it be that what she saw is her own memory returning? Because drinking Kaname's blood was what awakened her and returned her memories.

However, your guess that it could be Kaname's superior form may be quite right.

Possible. If i'm not wrong, Yuuki did question herself as to whether that monster vision she saw was a missing piece of her memory. But, I personally doubt it's Yuuki since it doesn't explain the awakening process. I think it would make a lot of sense if Kaname's (Kuran ancestor) form was that of that monster. Rido didn't just call Kaname the "strongest beast" for nothing.

Hino mentioned that vampires can understand the feeling of a person from whom they feed on. *shrug*

[carmolita]

I re-read that manga chapter and I think that rido was speaking/ referring to himself as the strongest beast, Afterall their has to be a reason why his eyes are two different colors. I have to agree with sagakure on one point ~ that is

Spoiler for episode 8 and manga tie:

(in the anime after drinking kaname's blood)yuki is seeing through kaname's eyes( remember kain said we drink each others blood to fill our thoughts) As you noticed her body was positioned as if she was in a coffin. The chains with the kuran crest had to be around the coffin and she was looking up at rido.

Kaname knew what yuki saw because in the flashback 10 years ago she was able to see rido and know when he was near. As she does in the anime as well. The problem is that she doesn't know who he is~ that's why she keeps calling him the scarey eyes.
freedomrulez perhaps the chains was not to keep kaname in, but to keep others out or away. Kaname talks about his life a bit, while he was killing off the council (keep in mind that the council sent rido to kill the night class and their families, so kaname is actually a good guy)

[Queeny]

why in the anime ver kaname more rude to zero ?
also some scene between him and yuuki in the manga is more gentle
and lovely ! the anime ver is not !

but ...
in the anime ver , kaname is something else ! is that only a small change,
or what ?

I didn't like it , kaname is more hot and gentle in the manga Ver ~

[freedomrulez]

@Carmolita

Actually Rido was referring to Kaname when he said "..What a great pleasure..being frozen by the strongest beast" (cha 38 - pg 21). Rido said those words before he went deep slumber. They say a real warrior finds pleasure in battling his strongest enemy despite his defeat.

Regarding the monster; good observation about Yuuki seeing through Kaname's eyes, essentially she is actually seeing Kaname. Though I wonder if we could make any conclusion based on the altered anime scene (Rido wasn't shown in the manga). Unless Hino gave away little bit of information pertaining to that incident, this exposition is pretty much viod.

freedomrulez perhaps the chains was not to keep kaname in, but to keep others out or away.

Perhaps. However, the Kuran crest must have been used during the sealing process. And do I see Rido giving his blood to awake Kaname? He seems to be feeding the crest rather than the body itself. There must be a strong relationship between Kaname and the Kuran crest.

And Kaname is definately a good person. I'm actually a huge fan of Kaname. ^ ^

Spoiler for I made a comment on it at another board:

Frankly, I'm having hard time understanding people that blatantly claimed that Kaname is evil. Its so obvious that he is a shady character that gives off evil aura, and created to remain mystery throughout the end of the series. On the contrary, Zero is a simple character--a lot like "what you see is what you get"--though he tends to be mean, its easy to see that he has a soft spot. However, with Kaname though, you just can't be sure of what exactly is going through his head (that's what make him more interesting). Having said that, Kaname has not done anything to labelling him as evil, atleast not from my POV. Everthing that he has done that made you people think that he is evil, I could probably make counter argument to justify it.

I hardly believe that Kaname has any ulterior motives other than wanting a peaceful soceity. Wiping out the council was a must step towards peace since they were against the idea of humans and vampires coexisting. He had the same goal in his former life, and is still clinging on to that goal. The end certainly doesn't justify the means, but the way he goes about acheiving it is not bad either. He may have used Zero to protect Yuuki, at the same time he also gave Zero a purpose to live for. It was because of Kaname, Zero is now able to live with Yuuki, who has saved him from sinking into a pit of despair. There is no denying that Zero would have killed himself after witnessing his parents death had Yuuki not been there for him. Can anyone say otherwise??

It is also very apparent that people mostly favour Zero because of all the "suffering" hes been through. But, what they fail to notice though Kaname has probably gone through even worse, provided that he lived for countless years in the past = more life experience, though its not explicitly shown or apparent in his case. Kaname is not a type of person to be angsting over an incident as Zero, let alone losing his life over it. He knows he has had responsibilites as a Vampire King and most definately experienced many horrible incidents. This is basically his "second" life. Just thinking about what made him to go slumber for ages is enough to conclude that he suffered a lot, i mean a lot in the past. However, this is not why I like Kaname. It's just that he seems more matured in decision making (not surprising) and has this strengh to live on under any circumstances. While Zero inherited an opposite-copy of Kaname, he needs "someone" to have a purpose in his life. Anyways, I strongly believe that Kaname will ultimately bring peace to vampires and humans, but with his life at stake.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by freedomrulez

Spoiler for I made a comment on it at another board:

Frankly, I'm having hard time understanding people that blatantly claimed that Kaname is evil. Its so obvious that he is a shady character that gives off evil aura, and created to remain mystery throughout the end of the series. On the contrary, Zero is a simple character--a lot like "what you see is what you get"--though he tends to be mean, its easy to see that he has a soft spot. However, with Kaname though, you just can't be sure of what exactly is going through his head (that's what make him more interesting). Having said that, Kaname has not done anything to labelling him as evil, atleast not from my POV. Everthing that he has done that made you people think that he is evil, I could probably make counter argument to justify it.

I hardly believe that Kaname has any ulterior motives other than wanting a peaceful soceity. Wiping out the council was a must step towards peace since they were against the idea of humans and vampires coexisting. He had the same goal in his former life, and is still clinging on to that goal. The end certainly doesn't justify the means, but the way he goes about acheiving it is not bad either. He may have used Zero to protect Yuuki, at the same time he also gave Zero a purpose to live for. It was because of Kaname, Zero is now able to live with Yuuki, who has saved him from sinking into a pit of despair. There is no denying that Zero would have killed himself after witnessing his parents death had Yuuki not been there for him. Can anyone say otherwise??

It is also very apparent that people mostly favour Zero because of all the "suffering" hes been through. But, what they fail to notice though Kaname has probably gone through even worse, provided that he lived for countless years in the past = more life experience, though its not explicitly shown or apparent in his case. Kaname is not a type of person to be angsting over an incident as Zero, let alone losing his life over it. He knows he has had responsibilites as a Vampire King and most definately experienced many horrible incidents. This is basically his "second" life. Just thinking about what made him to go slumber for ages is enough to conclude that he suffered a lot, i mean a lot in the past. However, this is not why I like Kaname. It's just that he seems more matured in decision making (not surprising) and has this strengh to live on under any circumstances. While Zero inherited an opposite-copy of Kaname, he needs "someone" to have a purpose in his life. Anyways, I strongly believe that Kaname will ultimately bring peace to vampires and humans, but with his life at stake.

Whether the things Kaname does are justified doesn't mean I have to like his actions. And I wouldn't say Zero is anywhere close to a "simple character." Yes, we do see more of his character so we have a much better sense of who he is than Kaname. Kaname is more of a mystery, but mysterious doesn't equal complex. Once the mystery is broken I doubt he'll be anywhere as complex as Zero who has a torrid of emotions towards many issues. Kaname is not evil but at times he is not likable in my mind either.

Yes, I can definitely say otherwise to him committing Suicide if Yuki wasn't there after his parents died! Zero was not suicidal! The things he did were a natural self-defense against deep emotional pain but that does not come anywhere close to suicidal. From I believe if he had been in a environment outside of vampires he would have been much better of. What they did to him was akin to when a child is bitten by a dog, throwing him a cage with a bunch of other dogs to make him get over his fear. Even if those dogs are gentle his fear and hate will just grow more by being around them.

Whether Kaname had a lot of suffering in his past is inconsequential. The past is over and can't be changed but the fact that his actions cause Zero pain and he is well aware of it, doesn't make me take any sort of sympathy for his possible past suffering. Kaname also seemed to angst over every time Yuki was shown being close to Zero. At least Zero has better reasons to angst over things. I'm not a fan of silent brooding type. If Kaname also had the "strength to live under any circumstance" he wouldn't have gone to sleep for many generations. That's just a way to run away from a situation. I also disagree with the statement that Kaname doesn't need someone to have a purpose. He most certainly does and that person is Yuki, just like Zero. The key difference is that Zero doesn't seek happiness for himself just for her and seeks to end his curse existence after but Kaname on the other hand wishes to live on with Yuki. If Yuki died Kaname would have a similar death wish that Zero has now.

Once again I don't in anyway hate Kaname but Zero makes this manga great and he's who I sympathize with much more. And I don't want to bang Kaname so that pretty much 90 percent of his appeal down the gutter.