[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 3 Banquet of the golden witch

[Kitsu]

Spoiler:

You are right.
Even if Jessica isn't Natsuhi's daughter which I denied cause of the similarities...it was told that Natsuhi and Krauss weren't able to "produce" a heir for five years. means they would have been married for five years already. So it's not possible. I'm sorry for posting that theory...I never really looked at the timeline, because I was always bad with numbers.
case closed

Also no good no good again...
Beatrice said herself that she would need a new container...if you look closely the time Beatrice died is about the same time as Natsuhi got pregnant. That would fit the Jessica=Beatrice theory (no I don't want a Battler=Beatrice theory...that would be very disturbing).

[izmosmolnar]

"It's all useless, useless!!!"

[Kitsu]

Yeah ....
I think the time the answer arcs are released I'm gonna be the happiest human on the whole earth since then I'll finally be released of Beatrice's curse (the want to solve the mystery)

[rogerpepitone]

Spoiler for epitaph:

I was wondering whether the "river" could be referring to the way the table is set.

The table, as set until Ange's birth: (Battler only)
えば, 楼座, 譲治, 真里亞, 秀吉
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 戦人, 夏妃, 霧江

The table, as set in recent years: (Ange only)
えば, 楼座, 譲治, 真里亞, 秀吉
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 縁寿, 夏妃, 霧江

The table, as set fully: (Battler and Ange)
えば, 楼座, 譲治, 縁寿, 夏妃, 霧江
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 戦人, 真里亞, 秀吉

And possibly stop at Maria.

Taking only last characters of each name (from village clue):
ば座治亞吉
蔵
臼夫香人妃江

ば座治亞吉
蔵
臼夫香寿妃江

ば座治寿妃江
蔵
臼夫香人亞吉

ば座治亞
蔵
臼夫香人

ば座治亞
蔵
臼夫香寿

ば座治寿
蔵
臼夫香人亞

Do any of these suggest something?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Spoiler for epitaph:

I was wondering whether the "river" could be referring to the way the table is set.

The table, as set until Ange's birth: (Battler only)
えば, 楼座, 譲治, 真里亞, 秀吉
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 戦人, 夏妃, 霧江

The table, as set in recent years: (Ange only)
えば, 楼座, 譲治, 真里亞, 秀吉
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 縁寿, 夏妃, 霧江

The table, as set fully: (Battler and Ange)
えば, 楼座, 譲治, 縁寿, 夏妃, 霧江
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 戦人, 真里亞, 秀吉

And possibly stop at Maria.

Taking only last characters of each name (from village clue):
ば座治亞吉
蔵
臼夫香人妃江

ば座治亞吉
蔵
臼夫香寿妃江

ば座治寿妃江
蔵
臼夫香人亞吉

ば座治亞
蔵
臼夫香人

ば座治亞
蔵
臼夫香寿

ば座治寿
蔵
臼夫香人亞

Do any of these suggest something?

Spoiler for episode3 epitaph:

You used the wrong characters for Eva. It's: 絵羽

I personally do not think that the first part of the riddle has anything to do with the family names. However let's say i'm wrong, then we must consider that Kinzo wrote this epitaph at least 2 years before the start of the game. There is no way Kinzo could predict that in the 1986 both Asumu's parents would die thus forcing Battler to return to Rudolf's house. He also couldn't possibly predict that Ange was going to be sick.
Therefore any speculation about the family member displacement at the dinner table during the game imho has a very weak basis. If Kinzo really was alluding at the family tree in his riddle then it's more probable that both Ange and Battler must be included.
I also do not think that secret family ties should be considered, because if that was the case then the epitaph wouldn't be solvable.

絵羽, 楼座, 譲治, 縁寿, 夏妃, 霧江
金蔵
蔵臼, 留弗夫, 朱志香, 戦人, 真里亞, 秀吉

This is how it should be if all of the Ushiromiya were present. However this is just one of the possible representations. It could be from left to right or rather from top to bottom.

___金蔵___
蔵臼____絵羽
留弗夫__楼座
朱志香__ 譲治
戦人____縁寿
真里亞__夏妃
秀吉____霧江

I don't quite get it why you would take only the last characters. the "里" in Maria is exactly at the center. Why do you think is more of last character than a first character? It looks like you confused it with "亞" that means "Asia" and not "Village". Second character makes more sense.

羽座治寿妃江
蔵
臼弗志人里吉

___蔵__
臼____羽
弗____座
志____治
人____寿
里____妃
吉____江

However it is probably better to remove the spouses becuse the epitah says that the village is at the bottom.

I can't speculate more than that because my limited Kanji knowledge doesn't allow me to go further. However there are some weak point in this theory:

1) The "RI" in "Maria" theory was pretty much dismissed in the game.
2) If the river is the genealogy then the homeland is the family, but the adjective used by Kinzo is "natsukashiki" and that involves attachment toward something about the past. This word is frequently translated as "nostalgic".
3) Kinzo isn't particularly fond of his family and Maria was named against Kinzo's will.
4) There doesn't seem to be any connection with all this and the atlas that Eva used to find out what's the river the village and the shore.

[Kitsu]

Since my japanese skill is about non existent I can't help

But after replaying Episode 1 there is another thing which actually caught my attention. The mansion was never locked or anything then suddenly Natsuhi insists that it is locked every midnight till the next morning. Why?

[Klashikari]

Considering Natsuhi's personality, it is very likely that ever since she was engaged with Krauss, she didn't want the servants to be laid back, even if "no one" comes to Rokkenjima aside of the family.

As far as I can remember, it was as soon as Natsuhi was under the supervision of the household, so for several years.

[Kitsu]

I just checked the scene:
"so in the past they hadn't been in habit of locking up. However Natsuhi ordered that the mansion would be locked up from midnight to early morning"

That's everything...so we don't know when they were ordered the time Natsuhi started to be the supervision or if she just suddenly decided to do it. also I don't think "just so they don't slack off" is a reason to give the servants more task especially something trivial as locking up and open the door every morning. But well...Natsuhi is really strict.

[Jan-Poo]

When i read that I gave it for granted that "in the past" refers to the time before Natsuhi became the head of the servants, so not something recent, the servants seem to be used to that.

[Kitsu]

Well, yes that's what I thought first time playing, too. But after playing and playing I thought it was a little bit suspicious to suddenly lock the doors up even if Natsuhi ordered it the moment she became the supervisor.
Also I think her headache is kinda suspicious, too

[Exilon]

Her headache is most likely one of the minor mysteries that Ryukishi put in the story.
My theory was that she could have some kind of mental disorder, hence the headaches; or maybe, she's faking; but thats weird since, in EP1, from her point of view, we see her complain about these headaches.

[Kitsu]

Spoiler for Theory of doom:

Natsuhi always complained about a headache so she doesn't have to sleep with Krauss. That's also the reason both didn't manage to produce a heir. Then after getting pills or just acting to much and such stuff her headache became really chronic.

Also I think a mentally disorder would be able to cause the headache but I don't think a mentally sickness is something minor Ryukishi would throw in.

[Exilon]

Yes, if they cause hallucinations and the such.
Rings any bells?

[Kitsu]

Sadly no, but please explain my head is just a mess right now

[Exilon]

Spoiler for episode 1:

When Natsuhi has an encouraging talk with Kinzo, for example. If she was hallucinating then we have open grounds to be able to say he could be dead.
We could take this even further and state that, when in Kinzo's study and she accuses the 5 of putting the letter there, she hallucinated the letter NOT BEING THERE when she entered. So she could have entered the room, looked at the desk, hallucinate nothing (when in fact the letter was already there), and then "spot" it.
As for the others, they weren't paying attention to the desk, and they're all distressed, so when Natsuhi rampages, no one doubts her. Besides, she's holding a gun.

IT does have many implications.

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for Natsuhi:

Eeh... Natsuhi wasn't the only one who didn't see the letter, and the letter was definitely there after. Natsuhi has a headache therefore she has a mental disorder is quite weak as theory imho. In the real world there isn't any real correlation. The majority of mental disorders do no involve headaches, and there are a lot of people that suffer from chronic headaches without having any other disorder. I don't see this as a reason to think Natsuhi is mad, besides you don't need to use this excuse to imagine she is having hallucination, we already know that many people in this story are delusional and see things, even if they don't have chronic headaches.

In the real world there is a strong correlation between headaches and anxiety. In other words people that are particularly anxious are most likely to suffer from chronic headaches. Natsuhi anxious and insecure personality matches with her headaches, plus it is seen in the game that her headache get stronger whenever she is put under pressure by Eva. It looks like this only happened when it's her pride at risk, Fear from being the target of a murderer doesn't cause the same effect.

[Exilon]

Spoiler for Natsuhi, response to Jan-Poo:

I said she hallucinated NOT seeing the letter. My thoery would be that it had been there all along, but no one saw it due to various factors.
And, if you discard mental disorders, I can still say halucinations can be caused by a brain that's tired - in that case, hallucinating would not be caused by mental disorders but her own brain that is tired and painful from all the headaches. (this means I partly agree with you on that.)

Also, if I recall correctly, she didn't take any medicine for her headaches that day, as she usually did.

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for Natsuhi episode 1:

And i said she is not the only one that DIDN'T see the letter.
In other words the letter wasn't there from the start. I just can't see it how 8 people could all fail to notice it.

Anyway i'm not denying that Natsuhi suffer from hallucinations, i just don't see a relation with that and her headache. Besides i'm pretty sure that there are other people that do suffer from hallucinations. And that means you don't have to use the headache as a reason, even without that you can imagine that Natsuhi is hallucinating.

[izmosmolnar]

I'm fairly sure there must be a reason why she is having constant headaches. More precisely there must be a reason why they put so much emphasis on her migraine.
I also think she might be few beers short of a six-pack, but I personally wouldn't go that far she is having so serious delusions due to her migraine. I think the Kinzo we see when she is speaking with him, isn't the real Kinzo, just someone impersonating him. As for the letter, IDK yet. I have my suspicions, but it's early to let them out in the open.
However even though I don't believe it, it would be convenient if Natsuhi might been delusional batshit crazy. It'd explain the above mentioned cases, plus it'd explain why she "shot herself" in ep1.
And after a quick google search, I'm inclined to think headache might be related to Mental disorders (please note, I'm not a psychologist). At least quite a lot of the sources I've found, states they are considered earlier symptoms and several indicates there is a more serious connection between the two (for example 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ). But as I said, I wouldn't go as far as Exilon though.

[Exilon]

I just can't see it how 8 people could all fail to notice it.

My lame excuse is that they're all distressed and looking elsewhere. A letter isn't very noticeable, specially if it's sitting in a desk that's probably cramped with papers.

All in all, there are many things that can cause headaches, even indirectly.