2009-06-07, 15:41 | Link #1 |
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Japanese Mahjong Thread
By popular demand, this shall be AnimeSuki's mahjong thread. Feel free to ask questions or stage games from here.
This is going to be rather haphazard at first given that I've got finals later this week, but here are some helpful topics for the beginner and expert alike. I'm going to edit it through the day today. Rules Setup There are 4 players to each Japanese mahjong game. The players sit at each side of a square table, designated as a house, which come in four flavours ordered as such - 北 西東 南 The houses are the Ton (東), Nan (南), Xia (西), and Pei(北). The order is read from the 東 and proceeds clockwise (i.e., after 東 discards a tile, 南 is the second house to draw). The dealer, or person who gives out the tiles and draws first, is always the 東 house. There are two types of rounds. In a tonpuusen, each player gets one chance at dealer, with the houses rotating clockwise after someone who is not dealer wins. If the dealer wins, he/she has an option to exercise renchan, which is where the dealer donates 100 points to the point pond to remain as dealer for another round. A hanchan is basically two tonpuusen back to back, but in the second tonpuusen the round wind tile rotates to the next house in the sequence (usually 南). By convention in English-speaking communities, instead of referring to the houses as "Ton House" or "Nan House" we just call them East, South, West and North. This is to reduce confusion since each house has an associated wind tile which is called by the names Ton, Nan, Xia, Pei. Tiles Japanese mahjong is played with 136 tiles rather than 144, meaning unlike Chinese, Hong Kong, and other variants there are no flower bonus tiles. The tiles are all arranged in 4 walls of 2 stacks consisting of 17 tiles, and are placed in front of the players. Tiles are organized into four suits: Pin (circles), Sou (bamboo), Man (characters), and the Honour tiles. The formal name for Man tiles is Wan, and they are used interchangeable. Honours are officially called juhai but more often than not they're called either fanpai or yakuhai, which actually refers to a specific subset of juhai and specific han, which will be discussed later. Where can I play? Tenhou.net http://tenhou.net/0/?L7447 http://arcturus.su/tenhou
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Last edited by Malintex_Terek; 2009-06-18 at 03:48. |
2009-06-07, 16:08 | Link #2 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I've got this book: The Red Dragon and the West Wind, which focuses on Chinese and American Mahjong but also discusses Japanese-style Mahjong. I've not yet found a book in english that focuses on Japanese-style rules.
So any book recommendations for Japanese rules would be appreciated. My son happened to trip across a year 1924 wooden tile set of mahjong from China ($1 garage sale) -- so we're mucking with that before we decide whether to shell out the big bucks for a modern set.
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2009-06-07, 16:42 | Link #3 |
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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There are no good Japanese mahjong books in English, nor strategy guides for that matter. This is because there are very few cultural centers for Japanese immigrants that maintain traditions from the first immigrants - people forget the game or have no opportunity to play and introduce new people. Since the vast majority of people who play in English-speaking countries are Chinese or Jewish, very little material has been published in English for that sort of material.
Dutch is a different story, though.
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2009-06-07, 16:47 | Link #4 |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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$1 for something as ancient as that? *Faints*
I myself has only picked up on Chinese mahjong after begging my friends to teach me how to play. Such an addictive game too as once I got the hang of things we just carried on playing for 10 hours straight. The japanese version seems to have a lot more rules than the chinese version (making it more complicated with the amount of hands allowed) and quite a nightmare of a scoring system too...I still need to learn it myself but there's noone to teach me this time round
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2009-06-07, 17:25 | Link #6 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
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2009-06-07, 17:38 | Link #7 | ||||
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Typically, the more complex the rules are, the less of a factor luck is and so the "easier" the game is. In my view - Chinese Classic: 90% skill, 10% luck Chinese Modern: 75% skill, 25% luck. Japanese Classic: 50% skill, 50% luck. Japanese Modern: 40% skill, 60% luck. Hong Kong: 10% skill, 90% luck. Hence, why I prefer the "Japanese Classic" style of mahjong (pre-Red 5's, Head Bump versus Double Ron) seen in Akagi and Tetsuya. It allows for all players to have a random chance of winning, and their skill make up the difference from there. Japanese style is the most balanced between rules/luck. Quote:
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The only advantage MahjongTime offers over Tenhou is in-game chat, which is why #mahjong was founded. Quote:
You're playing against real people in Tenhou.
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2009-06-07, 17:39 | Link #8 |
Endless Nine
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a certain tropical island
Age: 38
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http://www.reachmahjong.com
Should be able to get you started if you don't know how to play yet. Everything else will be experience. |
2009-06-07, 17:54 | Link #10 |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Japanese Mahjong set,
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (images use imageshack links so easy copy/paste) Gamplay Combinations
Gameplay winning hands The last tile when you complete your hand will not require a discard so even though you have 13 tiles, you will have combinations equivalent to 14 (if not more with Kon's).
Disclaimer: I'm very much unexperienced so if I goofed it please correct me. Thankyou.
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2009-06-07, 17:56 | Link #11 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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*oh great now I forgot what I really wanted to ask* edit Oh right, umm, 1. Is there a difference in value between the three 1-9 sets? 2. Is there a basic hint as to what I need so as to not be forced to fully conceal the hand and call riichi to win with a 1 toitsu 4 set?
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2009-06-07, 18:10 | Link #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Quote:
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2009-06-07, 18:48 | Link #13 | ||
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Thanks Cats, I have some smaller tile graphics stored away somewhere.
Chinese Classic is the original game from which all variants stem, except America which all but threw out the rules for CC. Chinese Official is a modern derivative of Chinese Classic, but it still preserves a lot of the rules. Hong Kong almost has no rules. When there are fewer rules, there's more possible winning hands so the game becomes more unpredictable and one has less control over the flow. In terms of winning, I think of HK as just a step up from slot machines. Quote:
Game-play wise, no. The designs are meant to represent different amounts of coin though, with Wan > Sou > Pin. Quote:
You can Riichi if your hand is completely closed (no calls), you have enough points, the game isn't in its last round and you're in Tenpai. You can't Riichi any other way, the hand must be completely closed. There's a laundry list of problems with MT, which why I advise to not even bother. The social structure of the place also ruins the gaming experience.
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2009-06-07, 19:13 | Link #14 | |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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Also what comes into play are a lot of special rules such as those which determine how one should play a hand when sitting in "x" wind of "y" round so potentially there is a lot of chaos and additional information to remember ie if you are sitting in east seat and the round is east and you have a pon of east tiles then that is 2 fans added to the winning hand. HK style doesn't allow for a combination that consists of pons and chows in different suits so that again makes it more difficult to play and a winning hand of only chows of different suits are given 1 fan (meaning you are still missing 2 for a winning hand). And I don't think there are more possible winning hands in HK mahjong than Japanese mahjong...the options available to HK players aren't that many when you play with the "3 fan minimum" rule so there is hard to win with quick, cheap hands unlike the Japanese counterpart. It is a little unfair to say that it is pure luck and lol at the slot machine comparison
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2009-06-07, 19:31 | Link #15 | ||
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Increasing the fan requires more skill and patience, but the game as a whole becomes easier since it becomes a lot more predictable to figure out what people are aiming for.
Example, if we set the minimum fan to 13, what would everyone be aiming for? Quote:
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Sorry about that.
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2009-06-07, 19:37 | Link #16 | |
Honyaku no Hime
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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I dunno if it's cause of "Saki" that has brought Japanese Mahjong to light, but I've been caught up in this world a little bit over late 2007/early 2008, when trying to fansub a anime series called
"Lengendary Gambler Testsuya" We got ep 1 and 2 tl'ed, edited and TS'ed but after months of searching I couldn't find a TC'er who was incredbly knowledable about the game and could interpret between the two languages. Then luck had it, I find a TC'er but no longer have a translator, we we have all the raws and kara and scripts and I've made a .pdf file explaining the rules "Mahjong for Idiots" basically xD Page 1 is here: (was needed for myself as well tbh, lol - Feel free to criticise M Terek if there are some off points, although this had been run past another professional Japanese Mahjong player when i was designing this page) - But at present that project is stalled, it may resume if I find the "one" to help get us back on track someday. Quote:
Anyways, I played a children's version of this (Pahjang?) - using the Disney set back in October xD Gave me a simple rundown of what this game is about, on a basic level in terms of concept, it's not too dificult ^^ .. Just when they start using all kinds of 'sets' when they wanna 'tsumo' (draw) - theeeeen it begins to get complicated
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Last edited by Mystique; 2009-06-07 at 19:54. |
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2009-06-07, 19:59 | Link #17 |
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Wei-Hwa Huang's website was what I originally used to learn, but as one would expect there are some errors and it's very out of date. It's still a good reference site, though.
As for Yakitori Online, it went down because the owner wasn't getting loads of cash from would-be Japanese mahjong players. It wasn't a very helpful website either, partly because most of the "meets" were conducted at ron2. I only attended one of those "meets"...and ended up winning.
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2009-06-07, 20:01 | Link #18 | ||
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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And I'm talking about a sensible minimum which seems to be the norm Quote:
ps...saiGAR 2008? you need a new message change
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2009-06-07, 20:05 | Link #19 | |
Honyaku no Hime
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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Especially when one begins hearing fun things like: Tsumo! Rokusen toushi! Tsumo! Baiman! Chii Toitsu Tenpai - To name but a few Thanks for the update on the yakitori website tho. ^^
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2009-06-07, 20:24 | Link #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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a) What the point payout score is (Usually 30000(30) for 4, 40000(40) for 3) b) What the first place bonus is (Usually +20000(20)) c) Any rank based penalty or bonuses (Ex: Gamedesign uses a +/-10000(+/-10) penalty/bonus. First gets a +20000(+20) bonus, Second +10000(+10), Third -10000(-10) penalty, Fourth -20000(-20)) Calculation is very easy: (Variation a: ) Round your points to the nearest thousand and divide by one thousand. Subtract the payout score (/1000) from that value. Apply any penalties or bonuses. (Variation b: ) Round your points to the nearest thousand. Subtract the payout score from it. Apply any penalties and bonuses. Divide by 1000. |
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mahjong |
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