2009-10-01, 01:14 | Link #2421 | |
Delightfully lost...
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: All over the place...
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The series did not err in its choice of an ending. Rather, my comment about "doing it wrong" is aimed at those who kept raging about how terrible the ending was, all the while without ever providing some sufficiently convincing reasoning to back their opinion. Many of these posts revolved around the "cart-scene" alone as if it is some magical solitary event that made the ending somehow "bad," while failing to show that the posters themselves had taken the time to contemplate that event along with the rest of the series as a whole before coming to a well thought through argument to back their position. I suspect many of these posters were simply dissatisfied with the fact that Phantom did not adhere to their vision of an ideal ending (whatever that might be), thus resulting in their unrelenting, but ultimately unjustified, complaints of the actual ending being "bad" and "irrational." Last edited by [DOT].L; 2009-10-01 at 01:42. |
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2009-10-01, 02:28 | Link #2422 |
Mad Scientist #0000
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No...Your assumption is myabe right on some of the complaining people, but really not to everyone.
The problem is it was "obvious" after the episode just before the final one that they're following the 'Road of the Cerulean Sky' ending of the VN. Instead they dumbly kill the protagonist in the last minutes by some random cart-driver to make it tragic and different from the VN's ending. Well, excluding the fact that Reiji was famous about his near-inhuman survival skills it was alright. But the thing bugged even me the thing that they show Elen's happy face and all a way too long after it, like she wouldn't notice Reiji falling to the ground. It somehow destroyed the scene's impact. So in all honesty the last few minutes was a way too forced for me. That's why the people are complaining and perhaps because of the thing you mentioned before. Last edited by willyvereb; 2009-10-01 at 03:02. |
2009-10-01, 02:32 | Link #2423 | |
Relentless sinner
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In between demanted fantasies
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I don't recall saying ANYTHING that would encourage Inferno's actions or idolize them. I am saying that Inferno was indeed twisted and bloodthirsty not reiji(it was Inferno who turned his life upside down). Since you only put all the blame on reiji i won't argue that because it's a waste of my time. If this ending satisfies you, voila enjoy it. I don't like it kuz it still leaves some open questions. If it was my choice i'd go for 'vengeful spirits' kuz there reiji goes rampage on Inferno. I still say that your logic is faulty on this one by the content of your posts. |
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2009-10-01, 03:34 | Link #2424 | |
......
Join Date: Dec 2004
Age: 37
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Personally I think that Reiji is certainly Dead. First of all he was shot. Reiji was shot at such a close range that if it was a Professional assassination from Inferno (which it extremely likey) That I doubt they would of miss a certain death shot. It wasn't in the heat of a moment, but a good old Slient Assisnation. If they didn't think one shot would be enough they could of shot him a few times. But they didn't.
Is Ellen Dead.. Mabye... But I dont think she would simply kill herself, if she found reiji dead. As she said "These memories are enough for me to continue living" (Then we see reiji Fall down) In the end she was able able to live for herself because of these memories. Which for me was probably the best moment in the episode. I'd like think Ellen character grew in that scene and didn't just go backwards. Plus she was also saying "she will live the life he wished for" Reiji wanted her to smile and he happy.. so with all this in mind, I think she would choose to live over death. And not be so dependet on Reiji that she would just kill herself. Still Its highly likey that assassins that killed Reiji also went after her.. Its clear that Reiji is a threat to Inferno. But mabye ellen isn't in Inferno radar... Not sure.. but because we didn't see ellen getting shot or any evidence that she was shot, it up in the air. Well people can think that the last 30 seconds or so didn't happen but it stands no matter what! I know I'm dissapointed in the ending and I'd like to just forgot from episode 25 onwords but it happened :/ I dont think the ending was just added on. Most likey they had it planned for a while. As strange as the scene comes across. . Quote:
Last edited by evil-samurai; 2009-10-01 at 03:45. |
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2009-10-01, 03:46 | Link #2425 | |
Delightfully lost...
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: All over the place...
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There is little problem with the ending in symbolic and thematic terms. It makes sense. The story does drive itself into a corner with respects to the number of plot devices it has left to execute the ending, that I will gladly admit. Considering what is left available, however, the ending did just fine. It's less than optimal, but a functional and sensible conclusion just the same. If one understood the underlying symbolic/thematic trappings of the last 2 minutes, I really can't see why one would crown the ending as "bad" and "irrational." Having said that, as an overall product Phantom is mediocre at best. It's structurally orthodox and technically sound, occasionally thought provoking, but fundamentally low in substantial content. It's somewhat of a cut above the conventional products of its genre through the employment of intermittent bursts of stylistic flare. It's not great or downright awful. It's just another one of those "slightly good" titles that kinda sorta tries to be good but in the end settles for mediocrity. Frankly, I'm content with Phantom. At least it remained true to itself all the way to the end. It gave a straightforward ending without any sort of pretentious shenanigans, and I'd take that over poorly thought out pseudo-philosophical bullshit any day. |
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2009-10-01, 13:13 | Link #2426 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Personally, I thought the portrayal of the characters gave me lots of "substantial content," as did the sense of inescapable tragedy that hung over the whole thing. I too am a bit allergic to "pseudo-philosophical" stuff. My own rating for this show is "excellent," at the moment. I'm still not sure what to make of the ending, myself. I'm not even sure what's going on in Elen's mind, or if she saw him fall. There's no problem with the ending for me until the gunshot. I'm just not sure what's going on after that. But if anyone is complaining solely because this doesn't match any of the canon endings, I'm not sure whether to facepalm or just feel badly for them. Maybe no-one's complaints are actually so limited. NOTE: My avatar of the season is Takagaki Ayahi, who played Ein and plays Sumika in the upcoming Sasameki Koto. Check out the links in my sig, especially the blog post, which includes a lot of info about her, some videos of interviews, and several photos.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2009-10-01 at 14:03. |
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2009-10-01, 14:49 | Link #2427 | |
Delightfully lost...
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: All over the place...
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I suppose I'm satisfied with the ending because it is in line with everything the story still had going for it at that point. Most of all because it makes symbolic sense. It's a pleasantly appropriate artsy touch for a generally straight up in-your-face plot. self-indulgent plug: 10 seconds after submitting this post, and I'm already deemed a hypocrite by a fellow forumer. That's pretty awesome. Last edited by [DOT].L; 2009-10-01 at 15:00. |
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2009-10-01, 18:57 | Link #2429 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Spoiler for game:
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2009-10-01, 20:09 | Link #2432 |
I like guavas.
Join Date: May 2009
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I'll tell you why people may think it is a bad ending:
It was a bad ending because it was unnecessary. Did he really have to die? Did he really have to? Really? I am waiting for a sequel where Ein/Elen goes on a rampage and destroys Long Purple Hair Guy, takes over Inferno, stumbles upon Scythe's work and makes a dozen Reijis. Then, I guess his death is necessary. Hah. |
2009-10-01, 21:26 | Link #2433 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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But I'm still wondering about "substantial content." I guess you're referring to some kind of intellectual content. Can you suggest other anime that have what you're looking for? I think I personally often find overt intellectual content rather shallow, but I'm definitely open to being convinced by some example. For depth, I look to emotional content, which I got some of here, in my feelings of the characters' positions at various times. Or maybe you want a less linear plot? Not sure how that creates substantial content, although it can create tension and expectation to make us more involved. Maybe that's all you're saying about that. I must admit that I am fine with escapist fiction. I don't see much else in the vast majority of anime. Let's see: Simoun had more. Hitohira had some deep personal and emotional aspects. Eve no Jikan is serious fiction. Death Note was just intellectually tricky escapist fiction, as far as I could tell.
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2009-10-01, 22:44 | Link #2434 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Mine will also be up on Megavideo, so if anyone just wants to watch it and and not want to download it, it'll be in my signature once it's up ^_^ |
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2009-10-02, 00:02 | Link #2435 | |
Delightfully lost...
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: All over the place...
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Quote:
I think I should make clear the point that substantiality doesn't equate to quality. Take the example of Evangelion. It's throws around a lot of hefty ideas, but I feel its choice of storytelling style detracts from its overall quality by being overwhelmingly ambiguous and unnecessarily cryptic since it hampers the fiction's reach to a broader audience. By contrast, a series like Gurren Lagann doesn't play around much with abstract conceptualizations, but is arguably on par with Evangelion in terms of overall quality because what it lack in substance it makes up for in style and accessibility. Gurren Lagann also happens to be an exceptionally good example for the creative use of linear storytelling. Those watching know the general progressive direction of the plot, but that's all they know. By doing so Gurren Lagann managed to retain a strong suspense hook that remained throughout most of the series. Phantom's approach to linearity is much more methodical and by the book. It's like driving down the long, straight stretch of a desert highway. One's progression is laid out bare in front of one's eyes, but an occasionally glance to the side now and then reveals an oddly shaped cactus or two. As such, Phantom doesn't hit the point where it becomes boring and tedious, so its performance is still satisfactory. Gurren's analogy would be something like driving down the same highway at night with no other light sources save for one's headlights and a map. The darkness provides the perfect cover for nocturnal desert creatures (plot twists and revelations) to catch you by surprise, but the map shows the definitive way in which one's vehicle will travel. To extend your observation about escapist fiction, it's probably safe to assume over 30 to 40 percent of all world publications in circulation are purely escapist. I fully acknowledge escapist fiction's existence as a genre and that it has its place in literature. At the same time, I hold fast to the notion that if one's going to write escapist fiction, at least try to do it very well in the technical sense since there's essentially nothing meaningful to it other than for it to serve as a worthwhile temporary retreat for those who're looking for some downtime from the realities of human social life. Last edited by [DOT].L; 2009-10-02 at 14:33. |
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2009-10-02, 04:03 | Link #2436 | |
Senior Member
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Elen/Ein has no reason to go rampage since she is satisfied with new found her identity and memories thanks to humane Reiji. She is content to live her life quietly or wait for retribution for her history as Phantom which shown in the end where she lie dead on the quiet plains of Mongolia, staring at sunset with small smile on her lips forever. She found her peace within herself and willing to face death for her past deeds. That is pretty brave of her, to be honest. Perhaps too, it would explain why she is giggling as she saw the assassin in the end.
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2009-10-02, 04:32 | Link #2437 |
Koh nara dekiru!!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
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How many times do we have to say it:
Title: Phantom ~ REQUIEM for the Phantom ~ First OP song: KARMA Dead Key Characters: McCunnen, Lizzie, CAL Last ED song: Transparent With all that foreshadowing... the ending fits perfectly. Once again, this is Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom and not Phantom - Phantom of Inferno. |
2009-10-02, 06:54 | Link #2438 | |
The Faceless One
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The ending of anime is perfect and no other ending from VN would fit it better IMO (I'll explain in detail why I think so once I find more free time). I am just glad that Beetrain decided to not end the show with a nicer ending because of fanservice.
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2009-10-02, 08:01 | Link #2439 |
Relentless sinner
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In between demanted fantasies
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What I've felt
What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never be Never see Won't see what might have been What I've felt What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never free Never me The Reiji i know trough a well known chorus. *cries* |
2009-10-02, 08:14 | Link #2440 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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And even though I like Elen, having second season only with her will be a bit boring There are no phantoms to stop her. Unless that guy in carriage was a secret Scythes child who is Phantom 0
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action, eroge, gunfights, seinen |
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