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View Poll Results: To Aru Kagaku no Railgun - Episode 10 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 13 | 17.81% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 26 | 35.62% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 17 | 23.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 10 | 13.70% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 4 | 5.48% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 2 | 2.74% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 1.37% | |
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-12-06, 00:01 | Link #42 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Your first point - well she clearly said she wanted power cause it's nice to have a power. Not because you can do stuff to help people but because you have it. That's one of the most stupid reasons to want a power in the first place. I think every young boy and girl's dreams are crushed when they're young. Everyone dreams to become something amazing but when the grow up they see that it's not going to happen. That's not really a reason cause everyone goes through that. Why should she be the special one out of the whole world so her actions can be justified. Second sure she left her home and all that but she can go home at any time. It's up to her what to do. Take her friends for example - they had no ability but they were going to the library to study. I don't think they went to AC to just sit around - they also had dreams that were crushed but unlike Saten they really sucked it up and did something like study which she failed to do from what we saw. Also when they used the LU the didn't know it had side effects nor that it leads to a tendecy to commit crime since Saten left out that part. That's enough to make me dislike her in this situation. I mean when people talk about side effects they don't mean something nice will happen to you as an added bonus. It means something bad will happen. For the question "How would anyone else feel if others had want they want but it's something that they'll never be able to attain?" I do believe this is true for at least 90% of the people on Earth. Does that mean everything they do is ok since they want something others have? Of course not. Everyone wants something others have and in most cases they don't have a way to get it. Again why is she someone we should consider special when most people go throgh the same thing without pulling off something stupid like what she did. She even put her firesnds in danger which was a wat bigger problem. Last part Quote:
"Desperate? Yes. Despairing? Probably. Selfish? YES. Undeniably human? Definitely." you could toss in inconsiderate, stupid, for the wrong reasons, illegal dangerous and a few more. Whatever the case that's not an excuse to do any of this. If you consider it to be so than by that logic the world will fall apart since everyone will just do what they want since they just want something others have and they're only human so they can't help it. Either way as far as I'm concerned Saten really got what was coming for her. And also I don't mind your ava at all. In fact it's a nice pic. Well to tell you the truth I don't really care about a person's avatar while leading a discussion since it has no real impact on it but being a fan of a charactre or series could sometimes prevent you from actually seing the bad parts. Or at least that was the case for me more than once. I enjoy the series overall I just can't feel sorry for someone like Saten. That came a bit long so sorry about that^^ |
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2009-12-06, 02:06 | Link #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Yeah, dragging her friends into the mess was a BAD thing, then again I do not think we should assume that the scenario writers necessarily want everyone to go "OMG POOR SATEN sniff sniff", for all we know they did it on purpose to add some complexity to the situation...
Hard to believe that the shifty eyed lady is the main villain and that the board of directors and Crowley are not aware of her project. |
2009-12-06, 03:31 | Link #44 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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How Saten was being "looked down at" (for lack of better terms) by some and yet being admired by others actually gave Saten more justice. It just makes her more human, in a way. It's been a while since I've been seeing people with a realistic array of characteristics.
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2009-12-06, 05:42 | Link #45 | ||||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Last edited by Haak; 2009-12-06 at 10:35. |
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2009-12-06, 07:45 | Link #46 | ||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-12-06, 07:59 | Link #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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I haven't really bothered to post in a while, but the Saten bashing is really fucking ridiculous. Here are some things you guys seem to have completely misconcieved:
First of all, Kuroko didn't tell Saten/Uiharu that level upper had side effects. She said it may have side effects. To Saten, not only was it completely vague what Level Upper's side effects were, she still had no idea that side effects were confirmed in the first place. Two. Level upper is not illegal, and it does not induce its users to commit crime. The correlation is 'users of level upper often use it to commit crime', not 'level upper somehow brainwashes its users into becoming criminals'. As for taking its users into custody, again this was stated to be for their own safety due to the possible side effects--level upper is simply an underground aid that has not been officially endorsed by the city--there is no law prohibiting its usage (obviously its very shady, but there is nothing illegal about it). Third, Saten's friends were ability users before level upper. As the one lifting a person said herself: 'before I could only lift a pencil' (or something; I forget). When they were talking about going to the library to study because they couldn't do anything to improve their abilities, that was the laziness of not being willing to work for their powers. Do I feel sorry for Saten? I don't know, I must admit I'm not really one for pity in any circumstance. Do I feel sympathy for her, do I hope she gets better and feel for her as a fellow human? Yes, easily. Saten may have been weak, greedy, and too moved by envy, but to call her stupid or inconsiderate is an incredible exaggeration. |
2009-12-06, 09:19 | Link #49 | ||||||
Crazy Devout Fanboy
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
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And I'm a dang big defender of a lot of anime characters that anime watchers tend to bash on. Even some non-mecha-fans should know the significance of being a Shinji Ikari-supporter, and I'm one of them. I've been watching anime for 19 years, and I couldn't even give you the names of 10 anime characters I criticize. (with the exception of bad guys that you love to hate, of course) Quote:
I can tell you, that there have been many times that I've felt like Saten here in a variety of situations. And if I had ever found something like Saten did, I'd have reported the thing, not used it, and certainly not pass it around to others.
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Last edited by Shinji103; 2009-12-06 at 09:30. |
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2009-12-06, 09:35 | Link #50 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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I don't see Level Upper as the drugs that's been causing people to do crimes. There's just too many factors. Railgun has just showed us the "bad implications" of Level Upper like crimes around Gakuentoshi, and they clearly "outweighed" the good implications of Level Upper.
I want to blame Railgun for showing Level Upper as a bad thing generally, but LU isn't. It's just an exploitable power-up. It's actually the person who decides if he/she's gonna use the power-up responsibly or not. And as a secondary point, I want to blame those people for not thinking well and taking their powers for granted.
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2009-12-06, 10:01 | Link #51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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You keep talking about 'exoneration' and 'responsibility'. What exactly is your point by that? Are you saying Saten falling unconscious is the deserved consequence for her to 'take responsibility' for endangering her friends? Or what? How do exoneration and responsibility play into the matter here?
Everybody makes mistakes. Saten's, honestly, is not particularly huge. Certainly in no way comparable to taking and handing out drugs . There is nothing inherently wrong about the idea of a level upper--and as for the side effects, Spoiler for future events; based on manga:
You laugh sarcastically about the level upper being traded 'suspiciously' under the table just for fun, but yes, basically, that's what it is. Level upper is not being handed out with any malicious intentions towards the user, and is ultimately harmless. I'd feel more sorry for Saten if she hadn't taken this brief opportunity to experience the joy of being an ability user, actually. |
2009-12-06, 10:21 | Link #52 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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[edit] Well okay, maybe some people are to some extent, but still...
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Last edited by Haak; 2009-12-06 at 10:57. |
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2009-12-06, 10:48 | Link #53 |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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Well they (some of the critics) might be looking at it from the wrong angle here. Many are assuming that this decision was based purely on just selfish want for power.
I see it as her alleviating this strong stigma that goes around about Level 0's. I'll use stronger stigmas to see if I can put up a clearer picture of where her mind is at. Despite the obvious claims to the contrary I'll get from people's responses, just hear me out. Have you never felt the pull to get married, and start a family, to just get into a relationship, even if there is no real need for you to do that? Well, that's because there is an almost indeliable mark on people who are choosing to remain alone. With Saten, you see that people who can't or don't progress are seen as dropouts, failures, defective, like being in a permanent Special Education program, and for any of you who have been in one of those, its kinda humiliating. Even Mikoto seems to have understood what was going through her head and doesn't condemn her for it, because she too, ran to seek something much higher when it wasn't "necessary." This is on top of a lot of different things people have already pointed out, crimes so bad the Anti-Skill/Judgment can't keep up, the danger/helplessness she must feel daily, but also having that will to want to do something even when its dangerous for her. All of these things we're a part of her thought processes. Rather than thinking of her giving something dangerous to her friends, look at it this way. She is a middle school student. She is thinking they want it as badly as she does, and since they are her friends, she wants to help them. They have heard all the shady rumors of the Level Upper, and they aren't brainless animals, so they have decided to take it. She didn't force it onto their ears. If they had rejected it as too shady, I'm sure she would have just done it herself eventually, she wouldn't force them to do it. Yes, she didn't want to try using it alone, but they themselves tried it of their own volition. She was ignorant of the side effects until Akemi just collapsed, and she has only seen the good benefits of LU. |
2009-12-06, 10:53 | Link #54 | |||||
Crazy Devout Fanboy
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
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Spoiler for In reply to Sol's spoiler:
Worse, actually, this episode she even admits to Uiharu that she was scared of taking it alone, hence she gave it to her friends, and thus showing us she even suspected herself that it was dangerous. Yet she ignored that fact and gave it to others as well as taking it herself. Then look what happened. I like the ring of what Simmons said in Transformers RotF: "Sometimes you get to the end of the rainbow, and the Leprachauns went and booby-trapped it." Quote:
So she's not handing out Level Upper with the express purpose of harming the users. Neither do heroine, dope, coke, and ecstasy dealers; they're not dealing drugs to hurt people, they're dealing the stuff for their own goals and purposes, in their case to make money. Are you going to say drug dealing is harmless too? Quote:
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Last edited by Shinji103; 2009-12-06 at 11:22. |
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2009-12-06, 11:41 | Link #55 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Well her mother didn't even want her to go in the first place cause she though it was dangerous. That would mean that Sate just proved her point by doing somethin dangerous. Also she could always go back to her home and from what we know her mother would probably be happier and in no way dissapointed. Quote:
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Shinji's example with the athletes and steroids a few episodes back still works best for this situation Well really now I never said that. Anyway when you're depressed and about to do something that is obviously dangerous you usally talk to people. At least that's the normal way to do things. Quote:
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Anyways I would say that Saten bashing is more pointless thar ridiculous since epople have different views and in most cases you can't change their view with talking to them on a forum since for one thing the have no idea who you are and they don't care. But hey it's not like there's somehing else in Railgun to talk about right now. Quote:
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And seriously when did the police ever investigate somthing that's ok to use unless there was something shady and bad about it? Judjment play the role of the police in To Aru and Anti skill is more like the SWAT unit. Quote:
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Stupid implies she is not smart which is probably not true even if she doesn't seem to study much but I said she did something stupid as in something not smart which doesn't actually mean she's not smart. And Inconsiderate is just fine considering what she did. Either way don't get me wrong I'm not bashing Saten as a character. I'm only bashing her for her actions this (and the end of the previous) episode. She has no excuse for what she did. Quote:
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Also as we saw most of the crimes were caused by people that used the LU in the first place. Quote:
Also that was extremely selfsih and inconsiderate of her. When you don't have the resolve to do something shady and dangerous getting you're friends to do it with you is by no means OK in fact it makes things even worse. on top of that skipping the part that it's actually dangerous is really wrong. Quote:
Anyways sorry about this wall of text but I felt like I needed to reply to everyone since most of this was in response to my comment. It's probably full of spelling mistakes but I believe you could get the general idea^^ |
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2009-12-06, 11:52 | Link #56 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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^ And you missed my ninja edits too. Doesn't matter. i don't think it's fair to reply since you're arguing with so many others.
I'll just make one point: Saten's dream was far from childish and was very much realistic.
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Last edited by Haak; 2009-12-06 at 12:09. |
2009-12-06, 12:19 | Link #57 |
Impostor Cutie
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Very good episode for me (but not for everyone I reckon).
You see, for me, unlike many others, the most important thing in Railgun was (and is) its moeblob side. Not action, not sci-fi and not Touma, not the plot at all. And here in 10th ep. I got the moeblob things I like - namely cute moeblobs roaming around the screen, meeting, chatting, solving problems, emotionally reacting. Big THUMBS UP guys, I mean authors and producers, especially Nagai Tatsuyuki (director). I so love all the "normal" scenes with four main moeblobs, like here: and here and this one and all the others The girlies are too cute Anyway, they combined moeblob stuff and plot development perfectly. Enjoyed the ep. from the beginning to the end of preview
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2009-12-06, 12:20 | Link #58 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Sorry I miessed your edits but that took a long time to type Well so is every childs dream until a certain point in time. For Saten that was the moment she actually came to AC. Of course the LU changed all that yet her dream remained childish (at least for me) because from all the things she said during this episode it seemed the reason she wanted power just because most people around her had one. That's like saying you want more money because you'll be able to hang out with "the cool kids" which ceratinly falls under the "childsih things" category in my book. And it doesn't really matter if it was childish or not sicne in the end she did something that was wrong, incosiderate, dangerous and ot top of that involved her friends. I believe that if it's not something your life depends upon the the end justifies the means or at lest I like to think so. This wasn't the case in this situation. haha don't get me wrong I never said I disliked the episode. We're jsut discussing if we feel sorry for Saten and were her actions justified. |
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2009-12-06, 12:35 | Link #59 | |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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@ Joe_fh:
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2009-12-06, 12:38 | Link #60 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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About not saying that she wanted to use to help, well, we've had the last nine episodes of her constantly feeling useless and her saying so (and you agree aswell), so I don't think it was all that neccessary. But lets review what she said when she talked to Uiharu: "I hated myself because i had no abilities" (why would she do that?) "And I couldn't stop myself from admiring those who had them (why would she do that?) *Cue flashback* "Mama" (Maybe a part of her didn't want to disappoint her mother?) "Does being Level Zero mean that your defective?" (hmm) I think the fact that she hated herself for being Level Zero clearly suggests it wasn't a childish dream. It seems a bit extreme for hating yourself simply because others have abilities and you don't, which it why i think it ties into her feeling useless in previous episodes. And like I said, she constantly surrounding by those who had abilities. She's living in a city where ability means everything. I'm sure it ties in with studies too. Perhaps she could've left, but I'm convinced she would've felt even more of a failure for doing so and she probably thought that her mother would've felt the same too (even though we know she wouldn't have) As Marcus said, I think the fact that Saten's character leaves room for alternative character interpretation another strong point.
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