[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Joneleth]

Fine, I'm starting to believe in it myself since a couple of days.


Ok I'll try to build a basic reasoning :


Shannon was brainwashed by Kinzo to become a new Beatrice and became unstable psychologically, which let to her start develop multiple personalities, "Kanon" and "Beatrice". Beatrice is in love with Battler due to pony thing.

Of course, some people know about this, it's impossible she maintains a perfect mask for years.

Beato has 3 main acolytes : Gaap, Ronove & Lia. They are the 3 persons that know who Beatrice really is : Nanjo, Genji & Kumasawa.

Nanjo is her doctor.
Genji keeps the secret out of loyalty for Kinzo.
Kumasawa pities her. She might have played the role of Beatrice for Kinzo in the past. (Hence her name "previous Beatrice")

[Painiac]

Why I thought about Silent Hill? Your teory is creepy for sure. Shanon has hallucinations, have to be constaltly checked for heath. And then, nightmare is born unto the island. The resurrection of evil god, Samael... Uh, forget about this. Go on.

... Or, may I say something opposing to theory of Shkanon?

In first twilight, weren't corpse of Shanon only one to be easy to identify? With only one side of face crushed? And... Kanon was fixedly staring at her face before Battler's eyes?

[k//eternal]

So let's run through the obvious issues regarding Shkanon and see if they can be shot down. If there are no problems, then it's clearly a legit theory.

1. Surely the residents of the mansion should realize that there's only one person, not two. (It'd be quite funny, for instance, if s/he was collecting double salary.) Jessica introduces both Kanon and Shannon, without any hint of them being the same person. She's also aware that Shannon is in love with George, but shows no sign of this being an issue when she pursues Kanon.

2. Is Shannon's corpse a body double? I'm particularly thinking of EP1, in which Kanon is active for a while afterward. Also, what's with his "if Shannon dies, I'll become the zero on your roulette" speech if they're the same person? Magic scenes are generally untrustworthy, but this seemed like a big deal at the time.

3. Absurd as it is, physical possibility. Are the boobs padding or what? Why does s/he do it? Does Shkanon have a number of different costumes (apparently including Beatrice)? Does Kanon have the leg tattoo (and how does it switch sides in Beato mode)? Is it just a sticker after all? Who got both male and female uniforms for Shkanon? It's hard to imagine all of this would be overlooked by (again) the people living in the mansion.

4. What does this say about red text referring to Shannon's death? Is the "death" of a split personality even valid? Similarly, red text pertaining to Kanon's death in EP2, while Shannon is still active.

5. Battler remembers Shannon from 6 years ago, but not Kanon.

6. Weren't they seen together in EP5?

Anything else people have to add?

[Marion]

Well the idea is that Shannon is the one pretending to be Kanon, not the other way around, so #5 is a bit of a moot point.

[k//eternal]

Well, if Shkanon theory is correct, they should all be moot points, one way or another

[Midnight Bliss]

Didn't Kanon start working 3 years prior to when everything takes place? Shannon was already working 6 years prior when it was the last time Battler came to Rokkenjima, so that's why he doesn't know Kanon.
I won't believe in Shkanon unless i'm forced to by outright confirmation, just me saying. I don't buy it. :/

[Joneleth]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

So let's run through the obvious issues regarding Shkanon and see if they can be shot down. If there are no problems, then it's clearly a legit theory.

1. Surely the residents of the mansion should realize that there's only one person, not two. (It'd be quite funny, for instance, if s/he was collecting double salary.) Jessica introduces both Kanon and Shannon, without any hint of them being the same person. She's also aware that Shannon is in love with George, but shows no sign of this being an issue when she pursues Kanon.

2. Is Shannon's corpse a body double? I'm particularly thinking of EP1, in which Kanon is active for a while afterward. Also, what's with his "if Shannon dies, I'll become the zero on your roulette" speech if they're the same person? Magic scenes are generally untrustworthy, but this seemed like a big deal at the time.

3. Absurd as it is, physical possibility. Are the boobs padding or what? Why does s/he do it? Does Shkanon have a number of different costumes (apparently including Beatrice)? Does Kanon have the leg tattoo (and how does it switch sides in Beato mode)? Is it just a sticker after all? Who got both male and female uniforms for Shkanon? It's hard to imagine all of this would be overlooked by (again) the people living in the mansion.

4. What does this say about red text referring to Shannon's death? Is the "death" of a split personality even valid? Similarly, red text pertaining to Kanon's death in EP2, while Shannon is still active.

5. Battler remembers Shannon from 6 years ago, but not Kanon.

6. Weren't they seen together in EP5?

Anything else people have to add?

1. Genji, Kumasawa & Nanjo helps her to hide her identity.

2. Battler never saw that corpse, only Hideyoshi & Kanon checked it, so it might have been fake. If Hideyoshi is an accomplice along with Eva for that 1st twilight. Might explain the ticket trick, she tried to put the blame on Natsuhi?
After Shannon "died" her Kanon persona went berserk and killed E&H. Then she declared she would kill Beatrice and stabs herself but is saved by Nanjo.

3. If her boobs are fake, it might explain why she didn't might Battler touching them in EP1.

4. Episode 2 is a battle of love between K&S. Shannon wins so she kills Jess at the second twilight, which destroys her Kanon persona. Later Kanon tries to resurface and kills Nanjo & granny. But Shannon retakes control and eradicates Kanon (spiderweb thing). Genji knows about it and Gohda is an idiot so Genji tolds him to shut up. :P


5. Kanon only appeared 2/3 years ago so that's normal.

6. Yeah but Battler is narrator. And his POV isn't reliable in EP5.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Midnight Bliss

Didn't Kanon start working 3 years prior to when everything takes place? Shannon was already working 6 years prior when it was the last time Battler came to Rokkenjima, so that's why he doesn't know Kanon.
I won't believe in Shkanon unless i'm forced to by outright confirmation, just me saying. I don't buy it. :/

If Kanon is Shannon, then that wouldn't be true anymore, unless that time is supposed to be when the split personality formed.

Originally Posted by Joneleth

1. Genji, Kumasawa & Nanjo helps her to hide her identity.

It'd still surprise me greatly if Jessica hadn't caught on (and if Krauss and Natsuhi hired a new servant who didn't exist). I'd find it more believable if there was a good reason the family members in the mansion would play along, but "the others are helping her to hide it" as an explanation is stretching it.

Originally Posted by Joneleth

2. Battler never saw that corpse, only Hideyoshi & Kanon checked it, so it might have been fake. If Hideyoshi is an accomplice along with Eva for that 1st twilight. Might explain the ticket trick, she tried to put the blame on Natsuhi?
After Shannon "died" her Kanon persona went berserk and killed E&H. Then she declared she would kill Beatrice and stabs herself but is saved by Nanjo.

Why would s/he go berserk if no death actually occurred?

Originally Posted by Joneleth

4. Episode 2 is a battle of love between K&S. Shannon wins so she kills Jess at the second twilight, which destroys her Kanon persona. Later Kanon tries to resurface and kills Nanjo & granny. But Shannon retakes control and eradicates Kanon (spiderweb thing). Genji knows about it and Gohda is an idiot so Genji tolds him to shut up. :P

If this is true, then the killings have nothing to do with Battler appearing on the island, which contradicts what we know from EP4.

[Joneleth]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

If Kanon is Shannon, then that wouldn't be true anymore, unless that time is supposed to be when the split personality formed.



It'd still surprise me greatly if Jessica hadn't caught on (and if Krauss and Natsuhi hired a new servant who didn't exist). I'd find it more believable if there was a good reason the family members in the mansion would play along, but "the others are helping her to hide it" as an explanation is stretching it.

Maybe Jess knows and prefer girls?

Why would s/he go berserk if no death actually occurred?

Cause the body is fighting for who has control. Kanon & Shannon lives in harmony but Beatrice wants full control of the body. At this point Beatrice has destroyed Shannon & Kanon is pissed.

If this is true, then the killings have nothing to do with Battler appearing on the island, which contradicts what we know from EP4.

Well Ep2 Beato tries to destroy the loves of Kanon & Shannon so she has Battler for herself at the end.

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Actually, maybe we should do that. Does anyone have specific complaints about Shkanon/Shkanontrice? Maybe we can resolve some of them with the new info from EP6. I doubt Ryuukishi will explain each and every scene for us, so if Shkanon is true, we'll have to prove it ourselves.

If your complaint is "there wasn't any foreshadowing" or "how were we supposed to know", that doesn't count. Plenty of people predicted it before EP5, and the beginning of EP2 can only be fully explained with this theory (unless someone has another explanation).

When you say the beginning of episode 2, do you mean the pre-typhoon exposition? Or do you mean certain twilights were impossible otherwise?

I always thought the red text for the first twilight of episode 3 did a good job of more or less dismissing the idea, but I can't in good conscience ignore the loopholes, so excuse me while I try playing around with it.


Kanon and Shannon are the same person.

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead! Even if a split personality can "die," one person cannot be truthfully considered two people.

The "Kanon" who died was actually George, who had received Kanon's name! The "George" who died later was simply Kanon in disguise.

The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself! A different person cannot claim his name!

The "Shannon" who died was actually Kyrie, who had received Shannon's name! The "Kyrie" who died later was simply Shannon in disguise.

When the children woke up after the bodies had been discovered (beginning of "Skirmish" chapter), everyone besides the 6 named in red was with Battler in the lobby of the guesthouse. That's 12 people - Battler, Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva, Hideyoshi, George, Jessica, Krauss, Natsuhi, Rosa, Maria, and Nanjo. If Shannon was disguised as Kyrie and Battler fell for the disguise, and Kanon did not exist, then there were only 5 people dead in the rooms. Thus, this theory violates the red truth.

Because Shannon and Kanon are the same person, an unknown 17th person X exists on Rokkenjima! This person also carries the name Shannon, and was the person who died during the first twilight!

It looks like the Shannon theory requires Person X. And that creates a specific problem.

Furudo Erika only increases it by one person. Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in previous games.
In other words, the number of people in this parlor now is equal to the total number of people on this island.


Furthermore, because we are now in episode 5 territory, Knox applies. Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues!

Because the number of people on the island is equal to the number of people in the parlor with Erika, if Shannon is the same person as Kanon and a 17th person is disguised as the other, that person must be in the room with Erika. There were no clues in episode 5 that Kanon and Shannon were the same person, and Erika did not have access to any clues from episodes 1-4. Therefore, no one could have been disguised as Shannon or Kanon, and Shannon and Kanon must be separate, unique people.

Are there any counters to this?

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Arkwright

Kanon and Shannon are the same person.

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead! Even if a split personality can "die," one person cannot be truthfully considered two people.

Again, this depends on what you mean by "truthfully". For example (dammit, I hate using this example), in Star Wars, Obi-wan says that Anakin "dies" when he didn't die in the normal sense of the word. Ryuukishi would not be the first person to ever use this figure of speech, not by a long shot.

In other words, when you say "a person" dies, it doesn't always mean the same as "a human being dying". Remember, the red text is literal, so there's never any guarantee that a specific interpretation of a word means one thing or another unless you specify it. If we were in Battler's place, we could easily ask "what do you mean by dead", so the rule is fair. For us, we can easily make as many theories as we want and account for both possibilities, so it's still fair.

Simply put, for the time being, let's say "Kanon" and "Shannon" can count as to separate "people", but they can also count as a single person. It just depends on the context.

Originally Posted by Arkwright

Furthermore, because we are now in episode 5 territory, Knox applies. Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues!

Because the number of people on the island is equal to the number of people in the parlor with Erika, if Shannon is the same person as Kanon and a 17th person is disguised as the other, that person must be in the room with Erika. There were no clues in episode 5 that Kanon and Shannon were the same person, and Erika did not have access to any clues from episodes 1-4. Therefore, no one could have been disguised as Shannon, and Shannon and Kanon must be different people.

The Knox rules do not apply to individual Episodes. Ryuukishi has said before that the Knox rules don't apply to Umineko, and we have absolute proof: he has said repeatedly that the game cannot be solved until EP4. Also, Erika is not the "player" in EP5, Bernkastel is.

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Again, this depends on what you mean by "truthfully". For example (dammit, I hate using this example), in Star Wars, Obi-wan says that Anakin "dies" when he didn't literally die. Ryuukishi would not be the first person to ever use this figure of speech, not by a long shot.

In other words, when you say "a person" dies, it doesn't always mean the same as "a human being dying". Remember, the red text is literal, so there's never any guarantee that a specific interpretation of a word means one thing or another unless you specify it. If we were in Battler's place, we could easily ask "what do you mean by dead", so the rule is fair. For us, we can easily make as many theories as we want and account for both possibilities, so it's still fair.

I guess in a technical sense I should grudgingly concede this point. However, I believe it goes against Beatrice's character, and also narrative sensibility. I know yours was an arbitrary example, so I know it doesn't mean much to refer to it specifically, but Obi-wan wasn't playing the role of the storyteller of a murder mystery. In a riddle that revolves heavily around murder, if even once Beatrice says "6 people are dead" to mean something other than that there are 6 dead people, any of the other red truths regarding deaths can potentially be thrown out the window and she may as well not have introduced the concept. Then where are we?

In other words, certainly we can create theories, and we can create theories that ignore red truths that say people are dead, arguing that they were dead in a different way. But I believe that doing so flies in the opposite direction of a "solvable mystery."

Originally Posted by chronotrig

The Knox rules do not apply to individual Episodes. Ryuukishi has said before that the Knox rules don't apply to Umineko, and we have absolute proof: he has said repeatedly that the game cannot be solved until EP4. Also, Erika is not the "player" in EP5, Bernkastel is.

While the Knox rules may not apply to Umineko as a whole, all I'm saying is that this is a red truth that applies to episode 5, which also happens to be one of Knox's rules. In episode 5, the storyteller Lambda is forbidden from disguising one character as another character without leaving a clue for the detective, Erika. Thus, the absence of clues to this effect in episode 5 leads me to believe that no one could have been disguised as Shannon or Kanon in episode 5.

The only connection to previous episodes I made was that if a 17th person X existed in episode 3, then they must also exist in episode 5, and they must be in the room with Erika.

I also find it very hard to believe that Erika, the super-inquisitive wanna-be detective, did not once look around the room and see the people who called themselves Shannon and Kanon during or after their introduction, which would preclude them from being the same person unless some 17th person was disguised as the other one - which looks to me to be impossible.

As for the mystery being solvable by episode 4 - I think the red truth in episode 3 was enough for this line of thought. If the purpose of episodes 5+ is to "confirm" suspicions and narrow things down toward the conclusion that is already reachable, I would view that scene as a means to shut the door on Shannon = Kanon.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Arkwright

In other words, certainly we can create theories, and we can create theories that ignore red truths that say people are dead, arguing that they were dead in a different way. But I believe that doing so flies in the opposite direction of a "solvable mystery."

Not a solvable 'mystery'? Maybe. Not a solvable puzzle? Ridiculous. The Shkanon theory was guessed at before the first answer arc. At least that theory is guessable. Ryuukishi has never said there must be one, single answer. He has never said that there won't be any alternate explanations. This game is not a mystery, but that doesn't mean it isn't solvable. Yes, it doesn't follow all the rules of the mystery genre, but I claim that it's a much larger puzzle than any single mystery novel ever released.

Oh, and you can't just ignore the other "dead" rules. Remember that the blue truth is needed to win the game. In other words, unless you can provide an explanation for why Beato used the word 'dead', a theory cannot be successful. Also, if that explanation isn't convincing and supported by hints and foreshadowing in several other scenes, that theory is much weaker than Shkanon.

In episode 5, the storyteller Lambda is forbidden from disguising one character as another character without leaving a clue for the detective, Erika.

No, this is never said at all. No one ever claimed that the detective has to be able to solve the mystery. Look at the Knox rules carefully, because it isn't there.
The Knox rules are applied to the reader, not the detective. In Umineko, the readers are the players, who have seen all the games. Bernkastel has seen EP2.

Originally Posted by Arkwright

I also find it very hard to believe that Erika, the super-inquisitive wanna-be detective, did not once look around the room and see the people who called themselves Shannon and Kanon during or after their introduction, which would preclude them from being the same person unless some 17th person was disguised as the other one - which looks to me to be impossible.

Did anyone ever tell Erika "We have two servants called Shannon and Kanon."? If not, then she wouldn't have been looking for them.

[Kitsu]

3. Absurd as it is, physical possibility. Are the boobs padding or what? Why does s/he do it? Does Shkanon have a number of different costumes (apparently including Beatrice)? Does Kanon have the leg tattoo (and how does it switch sides in Beato mode)? Is it just a sticker after all? Who got both male and female uniforms for Shkanon? It's hard to imagine all of this would be overlooked by (again) the people living in the mansion.

It's not only that... A girl and a boy have a different build from feet to head. Especially at their current age (not even thinking about people suspecting Shannon to be older and being the kid from 19 years ago) those differences get really obvious. You might be able to decieve people on the first look but not people you live with. Not even taking into account that Jessica as she is crushing on him is definitely paying a lot of attention to his build and looks.

Did anyone ever tell Erika "We have two servants called Shannon and Kanon."? If not, then she wouldn't have been looking for them.

But at least the Erika in the meta world should have suspected something. In her POV she thinks about both Shannon and Kanon and is therfore aware of both their existence. In her desperate state in Ep 6 she could have come up with something like Kshannon if she really never saw them together or they looked noticably similair.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Joneleth

1. Genji, Kumasawa & Nanjo helps her to hide her identity.

Why would they do that? If she has DID, she needs help. It'd be completely irresponsible not to have her get any treatment. Additionally, it's been 3 years since Kanon arrived to the island. If Kanon is indeed an alter of Shannon's (or a possible main personality), it'd be a bit ridiculous if during those 3 years no one other than those 3 noticed.

Originally Posted by Joneleth

After Shannon "died" her Kanon persona went berserk and killed E&H. Then she declared she would kill Beatrice and stabs herself but is saved by Nanjo.

DID doesn't work that way. Personalities do not die, you may try to "reconnect" them, but that requires treatment - and, even then, the other personalities do not disappear, you can stabilise the patient by helping him with his traumas and by having the alters communicate with each other. It's not as if one personality can just conquer/absorb the other one, or destroy it.

Originally Posted by Joneleth

4. Episode 2 is a battle of love between K&S. Shannon wins so she kills Jess at the second twilight, which destroys her Kanon persona. Later Kanon tries to resurface and kills Nanjo & granny. But Shannon retakes control and eradicates Kanon (spiderweb thing). Genji knows about it and Gohda is an idiot so Genji tolds him to shut up. :P

Again, DID doesn't work that way. Personalities cannot really kill each other, and the only way to help a person who suffers from DID is through therapy. And, again, personalities do not die.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

But at least the Erika in the meta world should have suspected something. In her POV she thinks about both Shannon and Kanon and is therfore aware of both their existence. In her desperate state in Ep 6 she could have come up with something like Kshannon if she really never saw them together or they looked noticably similair.

The game meta-Erika saw is the same game Battler saw in the replay or at least similar. She saw some scenes from piece Battler's perspective and didn't see all of the scenes from piece Erika's perspective.

Remember, Battler doesn't necessarily know everything his piece does in each game. There's no reason meta-Erika should.

And, again, personalities do not die.

I've already proven that this choice of words has been used for the exact same thing in the past. You might not use the word this way, but some people will and have in the past. You cannot dispute that.

[Arkwright]

Before I forget, what was it in the beginning of episode 2 that couldn't be fully explained without Shannon = Kanon?

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Did anyone ever tell Erika "We have two servants called Shannon and Kanon."? If not, then she wouldn't have been looking for them.

She didn't really need to be looking for them, she just had to see the total number of people. Erika walked in the door with Shannon right next to her. Kanon was in the room when she came in. Erika would not have mistaken the number of people in the room. There was no hint that one of the people was hidden from Erika's perfect senses. So Shannon and Kanon must be different people, unless Shannon was actually a 17th person X in disguise. Actually, there's not really much difference between "Shannon" and "a 17th person X disguised as Shannon," is there? I don't know why I bothered with that.

Originally Posted by chronotrig

No, this is never said at all. No one ever claimed that the detective has to be able to solve the mystery. Look at the Knox rules carefully, because it isn't there.
The Knox rules are applied to the reader, not the detective. In Umineko, the readers are the players, who have seen all the games. Bernkastel has seen EP2.

Oh, I see what you're saying. So the "clue" has to be provided to the observers, not the detective. I would personally say that a "clue" is something that the detective could have found, explaining why their senses failed them - whether or not the detective did find it is another question, but the observers will always be aware of it.

Regardless, there were no clues to this effect in episode 5. As I said above, the scene in the parlor proves that 17 people besides Erika are alive on the island. If a 17th person X is pretending to be Shannon in other games, then you might as well say that person is Shannon, and Shannon and Kanon are different people. The only other option is that in episodes 1-4, Kanon and Shannon are the same person, and the 17th person X is doing something else. Then in episode 5, the 17th person X disguises itself as Shannon. But this is impossible due to the red truth regarding Knox's 10th.

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Not a solvable 'mystery'? Maybe. Not a solvable puzzle? Ridiculous. The Shkanon theory was guessed at before the first answer arc. At least that theory is guessable. Ryuukishi has never said there must be one, single answer. He has never said that there won't be any alternate explanations. This game is not a mystery, but that doesn't mean it isn't solvable. Yes, it doesn't follow all the rules of the mystery genre, but I claim that it's a much larger puzzle than any single mystery novel ever released.

Oh, and you can't just ignore the other "dead" rules. Remember that the blue truth is needed to win the game. In other words, unless you can provide an explanation for why Beato used the word 'dead', a theory cannot be successful. Also, if that explanation isn't convincing and supported by hints and foreshadowing in several other scenes, that theory is much weaker than Shkanon.

Well, here I would say that there is no reason for Beatrice to say "6 people" if she plans to use an ambiguous meaning of "dead."

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

I've already proven that this choice of words has been used for the exact same thing in the past. You might not use the word this way, but some people will and have in the past. You cannot dispute that.

I'm sorry, but I don't think your example works. To begin with, Anakin never suffered from DID. To add to this, what Obi Wan said was a lie. He said Luke's father was killed by Darth Vader, because Anakin changed after he joined the Dark Side. However, that doesn't mean he died in any way. It simply meant he didn't want to acknowledge him as Anakin, because of all the evil things he was now doing. Additionally, by the end, Obi Wan was proved wrong, as Darth Vader saved Luke, meaning that Anakin Skywalker had never died. In fact, I'll say that if we'd have Obi Wan repeat in red that Anakin was dead (i.e. before he actually died, and overlooking the whole "living in the force" deal), I'm sure he'd be unable to say it. At best, he'd be able to say "For me, the person known as Anakin Skywalker no longer exists."

[Rias]

Let me answer the original question 1 by using a discussion in the past. This is the first part, taken from jp wiki, done back in ep5. There's also 3 more sections which deals with red text, ep5, and their body size.

Q1. If Kanon and Shannon are the same person, surely Krauss family and the other servants would know about it. There needs to be a reason as to why there exist a lie for an extra person.

Spoiler for Q1:

A: It's possible that Kinzo set it all up so that he can spy on the family members, so it's fine if Krauss' family doesn't know about it. Since the servants are all part of it, they probably know about it already. In the end, it's just there as a trick for a mystery novel, for convenience. If you ask "how come Mion and Shion are twins?", you probably aren't going to get an answer of "they are there to because I wanted to do the twins trick"

Q1b: But that can't be. The readers need to know the howdunit and whydunit, and a detective tale where the motive wasn't thought of is just not allowed. It's because the readers want to deduce correctly, that they are only allowed to complain, if the author didn't hint the motive. Twins can be born naturally, but a extra servant doesn't "born" without a motive. If Kinzo made that motive, then it exist another motive for the extra servant to stay around after Kinzo is dead.

Spoiler for Q1b:

One can think of a bunch of reasoning behind it. To give Jessica a lover, so that she doesn't end up hooking up with some random weirdo from somewhere. Shannon/Kanon wanted double pay. Shannon had mutiple personality after the stress induced from Kinzo's magical experiments. Many others too. Maybe because Shannon wanted to do that. Although she looks fine, she is pretty out of it during the mirror scene, so it's not that suprising for her to do or think something weird. Rika from Higurashi also stated that, it was unthinkable for Takano to kill herself. But because of that, you can't say that Takano can't prepare a fake body and faked her death. If you read up to Himatsubushi-hen, and able to claim that there was a guy named Takano Hifumi, who studied Hinamizawa Syndrome, and to take revenge on that, that would've been great. However, at that time, people would just say that it's guesswork. Theories such as "Shannon has a foster grandmother who studied Rokkenjima Syndrome" aren't denied at this point of time.

Q2: George, who doesn't belong to Krauss' family, has gone on vacation to Okinawa with Shannon before. Eva and Hideyoshi has both met Shannon before. Therefore, it's unnatural unless Shannon is real and Kanon is imaginary. However, Kruass' accomplice, Jessica, called Shannon to dress up as "Kanon", as her boyfriend, on a date during the festival. Is it possible to deceive others? Is it necessary to go that far?

Spoiler for Q2:

Shannon=Kanon theory links with "Battler POV" theory. Whether it's Shannon's trip to Okinawa, meeting with Eva and Hideyoshi, or Kanon going on that date, there no way piece-Battler can confirm, and thus can be treated as "stories made up by Beatrice"

In Jessica's case, it can be explained that she wanted a boyfriend to show off to her friends, and thus had Jessica to dress up as a male servant to her school.

Q2b: If that's the case, while it's doable that Beatrice made the story up with/for someone, there needs explanations as to why Battler's POV was absolute.

Spoiler for Q2b:

Beatrice, wanted to show the story in both mystery and fantasy, as the author. Battler's POV is absolute, because Battler has high magical resistance, as part of his character settings. Beatrice coincides with Maria (in ep1) in this case.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Used Can

At best, he'd be able to say "For me, the person known as Anakin Skywalker no longer exists."

But he didn't say it that way. The 'for me' was implied. As he said, it wasn't a lie from a certain point of view. If meta-Beato is the third personality, then saying "Kanon/Shannon" died would have significance for her. After all, her meta self is a personification of one of Sayo's personalities. If the same thing happened to Sayo's Beatrice personality, the Beato we know would die.

Who said DID has anything to do with this? There has never been any evidence that Shannon and Kanon have any kind of mental disorder. It is possible that, for certain reasons, Sayo intentionally takes on the personality of different people. When Shannon or Kanon die, it isn't some psychological break, it's Sayo realizing that she can never use that personality again.

Well, here I would say that there is no reason for Beatrice to say "6 people" if she plans to use an ambiguous meaning of "dead."

If Beato says a number other than six, that instantly gives away either Kinzo's non-existence or the Shannon=Kanon theory so easily that even Battler could figure it out. Beatrice counts the number of people often when naming a list. It's a bit less abrupt to do this in the original Japanese, so Beato doesn't need a particular motive to add this part on.