Tatsunoko vs Capcom, the next Marvel vs Capcom?

[-Sho-]

Yeah Capcom vs Jump will be great
Ryota want to work more versus series with many societies so it can happens ^^

[Js2756]

Originally Posted by Westlo

And what the hell does arcade revenues have to do with how well it sold on the Wii? That's totally irrelevant.

Given that the Arcade hardware was effectively a Wii, it does matter because it cuts down on development costs to port to another console, and provides effectively a free avenue for revenue.

You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence that TvC would have sold any better in Japan (the only place it was sold until Ultimate All Stars) on PS3 than on Wii, and that it would have been more profitable for Capcom.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Js2756

Given that the Arcade hardware was effectively a Wii, it does matter because it cuts down on development costs to port to another console, and provides effectively a free avenue for revenue.

You really think they would have much issues porting a Wii level game to a ps3/360 lol? Considering it's an arcade game and motion controls are a non issue, lol @ acting like this would've been expensive.

You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence that TvC would have sold any better in Japan (the only place it was sold until Ultimate All Stars) on PS3 than on Wii, and that it would have been more profitable for Capcom.

And how exactly would one provide such evidence? Do I point to SF4 & Blazblu selling better on the ps3 alone, not even counting 360 additional sales? Can you provide any evidence it would've sold less? It's pretty damn obvious that fighting game fans (you know who this is primarily aimed at) are on the HD Consoles. A ps3 version means a 360 version as well which is more profits.

Capcom clearly banked on some of the Wii casual fanbase getting into this game because it was flashy, though they didn't expect it to sell really good, since it only had a 70,000 initial shipment. Though only doing 45,000 out of 70,000 on a console with a userbase over 7 million at the time of release is pretty poor.

Also let me guess, you Tales of Graces isn't a flop on the Wii! You seem to be such a Wii apologist I bet this is the case.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Westlo

You really think they would have much issues porting a Wii level game to a ps3/360 lol? Considering it's an arcade game and motion controls are a non issue, lol @ acting like this would've been expensive.

Face it, just like ToG it is a shovelware game, so why port it to HD consoles.

[TCman]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Also let me guess, you Tales of Graces isn't a flop on the Wii! You seem to be such a Wii apologist I bet this is the case.

You are right, Tales of Graces didn't sell that well, but it does have a very strong competitor which was also launched around the same time: Final Fantasy XIII.

Tales of Graces is not a bad game; Famitsu gave for 9/9/9/9 for ToG while FF XIII received 10/9/10/10.

Originally Posted by Sides

Face it, just like ToG it is a shovelware game, so why port it to HD consoles.

Shovelware? I don't know, I haven't play it (yet). Although it does get good reviews from e.g. Famitsu. Maybe a sleeper hit which yet has to prove that it can do better in terms of sells when it finally gets launched in the USA and Europe, while the game itself has to compete against giant hits as Final Fantasy XIII and it has only been launched since 10 december 2009 in Japan. But before you know, they (Namco) just may port the game to the psp.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by TCman

Tales of Graces is not a bad game; Famitsu gave for 9/9/9/9 for ToG while FF XIII received 10/9/10/10.

I have heard it's a good game, I actually decided to keep my Wii pack (haven't even opened it yet lol, though I bought Muramasa a few days ago) that came with my Panasonic Plasma, mainly so I can play Graces when it's out in English.

But still it's performance on the Wii is so bad that Namco might as well ignore the Wii when it comes to Tales. Yes FFXIII came out not long afterward but the Wii has over double the userbase of the Ps3. A port of Vesperia (and I believe Vesperia 360 is around the same as ToG Wii in sales, with a tenth of the userbase) sold way better than Graces did.

[HayashiTakara]

Sides is being sarcastic since Westlo is extremely anti-nintendo.

[Js2756]

Originally Posted by Westlo

You really think they would have much issues porting a Wii level game to a ps3/360 lol? Considering it's an arcade game and motion controls are a non issue, lol @ acting like this would've been expensive.

And how exactly would one provide such evidence? Do I point to SF4 & Blazblu selling better on the ps3 alone, not even counting 360 additional sales? Can you provide any evidence it would've sold less? It's pretty damn obvious that fighting game fans (you know who this is primarily aimed at) are on the HD Consoles. A ps3 version means a 360 version as well which is more profits.

Capcom clearly banked on some of the Wii casual fanbase getting into this game because it was flashy, though they didn't expect it to sell really good, since it only had a 70,000 initial shipment. Though only doing 45,000 out of 70,000 on a console with a userbase over 7 million at the time of release is pretty poor.

Also let me guess, you Tales of Graces isn't a flop on the Wii! You seem to be such a Wii apologist I bet this is the case.

You have to take into account all costs when porting. I don't know how much it costs, or the resources it involves, but it isn't free. You still have to pay people to do it, and you may have to take those developers from other projects. I'm pretty sure somebody crunched the numbers on projected sales for another console and determined it wasn't worth the effort. All 3 consoles have different CPU architectures (despite all of them being manufactured by IBM), and have different graphics apis (although I think the PS3 and Wii are using custom openGL apis). Porting a game isn't quite as trivial as you may think it is. As I mentioned before, it may have been an arcade game, but that arcade hardware was basically a Wii (similar to Tekken 6 arcade hardware basically being a PS3).

You made the claim it would have sold better on another console, you have to back it up. Blazblue on PS3 barely outsold TvC. SF4 was Capcom's flagship product in the 2D fighting game market; you can't expect that TvC sales are supposed to be comparable with that.

As far as Tales of Graces goes, not at all related to this argument. I don't care how well it sells on the Wii. At the end of the day, games can come out on whatever console the developers want to develop for; I generally don't care. However, people need to see that game development is still a business, and it is monetarily motivated; companies usually don't develop exclusive games unless there is a monetary benefit to do so.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Sides is being sarcastic since Westlo is extremely anti-nintendo.

I have a Wii, DS and a gamecube, pointing out shit 3rd party performance on the Wii is hardly being anti-nintendo, otherwise the majority of Wii fanboys on Neogaf would be anti-nintendo as well.

Originally Posted by Js2756

You have to take into account all costs when porting. I don't know how much it costs, or the resources it involves, but it isn't free. You still have to pay people to do it, and you may have to take those developers from other projects. I'm pretty sure somebody crunched the numbers on projected sales for another console and determined it wasn't worth the effort. All 3 consoles have different CPU architectures (despite all of them being manufactured by IBM), and have different graphics apis (although I think the PS3 and Wii are using custom openGL apis). Porting a game isn't quite as trivial as you may think it is. As I mentioned before, it may have been an arcade game, but that arcade hardware was basically a Wii (similar to Tekken 6 arcade hardware basically being a PS3).

You made the claim it would have sold better on another console, you have to back it up. Blazblue on PS3 barely outsold TvC. SF4 was Capcom's flagship product in the 2D fighting game market; you can't expect that TvC sales are supposed to be comparable with that.

As far as Tales of Graces goes, not at all related to this argument. I don't care how well it sells on the Wii. At the end of the day, games can come out on whatever console the developers want to develop for; I generally don't care. However, people need to see that game development is still a business, and it is monetarily motivated; companies usually don't develop exclusive games unless there is a monetary benefit to do so.

The hardest part in porting any Wii games to 360/Ps3 would be adjusting the Wii motion controls to the 360/ps3 control schemes. You're insulting the talent of developers if you think they would have many issues performance wise. Like I said this isn't an issue with TvC since waggle is just an easy combo system like um.. is it EO mode from CvS2?

The Versus series is the second most well known fighting series Capcom have (for a time it was "the" fighting series as far as popularity went), please don't try and downplay it and act like it's Tito Jackson to SF4's Michael. Not to mention the Tatsunoko characters.. And it doesn't matter if Blazblue barely outsold TvC, it still outsold it and it's a fresh IP. Than you also add in the additional units sold on the 360 and it exceeds TvC by quite a bit. I'm sure Blazblue Best release will add more units... You can't ignore the 360 when you look at the overall picture.

And speaking of overall picture lets not forget I was talking worldwide figures (why else would I mention HD Remix which is a non factor in Japan?) before you posted those horrible, inaccurate and downright wrong figures for TvC in Japan. People hungry for more Street Fighter would've messed around with it until Super came out. Releasing it on a system without the target fanbase is a disaster.

And of course game development is a business, that's why Ubisoft and EA continue to bitch about their Wii games selling like shit for the most part and are scaling down Wii production.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Westlo

I have a Wii, DS and a gamecube, pointing out shit 3rd party performance on the Wii is hardly being anti-nintendo, otherwise the majority of Wii fanboys on Neogaf would be anti-nintendo as well.

Why do haters always say "I have this and that" to justify themselves?

Everything you say so far has been "anti" despite the good games that do exist. Focusing primarily on garbage put out by no-name developers and so forth.

What some developers put out is of no relevance, history has proven over and over again that with success you'll get mountains of shovel ware.

I bet if the 360 or PS3 was on top like Nintendo is right now, and had mountains of shovelware you wouldn't even say a word about it.

And why is this even being discussed in this thread? Are you suggesting that this game is garbage? Seriously that's just freaking retarded beyond hate.

[Benoit]

Westlo, I don't think you know much about gaming development and the difference between architecture of the Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3. No, it's not trivial to port a Wii game to the HD consoles. Here are some reasons why:

• The game has to be refactored to work with a multi-core CPU architecture instead of a single-core CPU one.
• Much of the graphics programming has to be redone to be compatible with however the Xbox 360 and PS3 go about them.
• The game needs new HD graphics so it wouldn't look out of a place on a HD console. Yes, I know Marvel VS Capcom 2 and other older fighting games were released for digital download, but those are re-releases, not new releases.

Contrast this with releasing the game for the Wii, which is quite trivial because the arcade hardware was basically a Wii.

[Westlo]

I may be downplaying the costs to upgrade TvC to the HD consoles by a lot but I think you're overestimating them by quite a bit too. I've seen entire Japan only games release 50,000 copies for shipment (Neogaf reguarly posts first day sales and % of shipment sold in Media Create threads) and the cost to make those games vastly exceeds the cost to upgrad TvC to 360/ps3. Would the extra copies sold on the HD consoles make up for the costs to upgrade it to 360/ps3? Maybe not in Japan since it probably would've done 50k ps3 and 25-30k 360, but once you factor in worldwide performance, yes it would've.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Why do haters always say "I have this and that" to justify themselves?

Everything you say so far has been "anti" despite the good games that do exist. Focusing primarily on garbage put out by no-name developers and so forth.

What some developers put out is of no relevance, history has proven over and over again that with success you'll get mountains of shovel ware.

I bet if the 360 or PS3 was on top like Nintendo is right now, and had mountains of shovelware you wouldn't even say a word about it.

And why is this even being discussed in this thread? Are you suggesting that this game is garbage? Seriously that's just freaking retarded beyond hate.

1/ Apparantly if you don't have something or haven't done something you can't critize it, I covered my bases.

2/ I've mentioned 3 Wii games in this thread, this, Graces and Wii Sports. The only developers I'm mentioned are Capcom, Ubisoft and EA.

3/ The only time I mentioned shovelware was when I mentioned how the ps2 had heaps of it. Your point is lacking.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Westlo

I may be downplaying the costs to upgrade TvC to the HD consoles by a lot but I think you're overestimating them by quite a bit too. I've seen entire Japan only games release 50,000 copies for shipment (Neogaf reguarly posts first day sales and % of shipment sold in Media Create threads) and the cost to make those games vastly exceeds the cost to upgrad TvC to 360/ps3. Would the extra copies sold on the HD consoles make up for the costs to upgrade it to 360/ps3? Maybe not in Japan since it probably would've done 50k ps3 and 25-30k 360, but once you factor in worldwide performance, yes it would've.



1/ Apparantly if you don't have something or haven't done something you can't critize it, I covered my bases.

2/ I've mentioned 3 Wii games in this thread, this, Graces and Wii Sports. The only developers I'm mentioned are Capcom, Ubisoft and EA.

3/ The only time I mentioned shovelware was when I mentioned how the ps2 had heaps of it. Your point is lacking.

Apparently you've ignored all your posts in other Wii threads.

I mentioned the first part because it's general complete B.S., it's like saying you're not racist cause you have a "black friend" some other minority group to make yourself not appear as bad as you're making yourself out to be.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by Westlo

I have heard it's a good game, I actually decided to keep my Wii pack (haven't even opened it yet lol, though I bought Muramasa a few days ago) that came with my Panasonic Plasma, mainly so I can play Graces when it's out in English.

But still it's performance on the Wii is so bad that Namco might as well ignore the Wii when it comes to Tales. Yes FFXIII came out not long afterward but the Wii has over double the userbase of the Ps3. A port of Vesperia (and I believe Vesperia 360 is around the same as ToG Wii in sales, with a tenth of the userbase) sold way better than Graces did.

Just because a game sold less than another doesn't mean it's a failure. Specially when you consider that it's much cheaper to make an wii version than an HD version. Surely Vesperia gave more profit for Namco after being sold in the two consoles, but ToG sold a lot, so Namco probably got a couple of bucks out of it too. Never saw any article saying that Namco complained about the sales, so i guess they are satisfied.

Either way, changing subjects... I've pre-ordered Tatsucap. It's possible to play using the gamecube controller? Cause i don't have a classic controler and playing in the wiimote... Well, it's not going to happen.

I was going to buy it, but after seeing the cool black one that will come with MH3(for free, that is HIGHLY unusual coming from capcom), i will wait for him.

[momobunny]

I got my copy today. So far I've only played with Roll and Morrigan... and Batsu by accident.
I'm playing with the Wiimote on its side, which is quite different from the Gamecube controller when it comes to attacks.

[ZeroForever]

Honestly Westlo is correct in saying that as a fighting game it likely would have done better on the HD consoles rather then the Wii, does it matter at this point though... NO.

Honestly this is probably the only wii game i'll get this year, but i'll enjoy it for what it is.... All i'm hoping for is that the online doesn't suck. Either way copy is coming in the mail, amazon had a 10 dollar preorder credit bonus so technically i got it for like ~35.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Either way, changing subjects... I've pre-ordered Tatsucap. It's possible to play using the gamecube controller? Cause i don't have a classic controler and playing in the wiimote... Well, it's not going to happen.

You're able to use a Gamecube controller, from what I've heard.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

You're able to use a Gamecube controller, from what I've heard.

If anything, the classic controller would be the best to use. The D-pad on the gamecube controller stinks. Is this game compatible with the classic controller?

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

If anything, the classic controller would be the best to use. The D-pad on the gamecube controller stinks. Is this game compatible with the classic controller?

Yup, it's compatible and you can configure it according to the instruction manual.

[Benoit]

How about using the GameCube's analog stick instead? It must be easier to use than a D-pad for combos as well.