Fate/ Series Q&A

[Arbitres]

This thread seems to be pretty active so let me just ask this...

For anyone that's watched/read/played Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai, what are the similarities and differences between Fate/Stay Night and the other two? I'm planning on watching Fate/Night Stay and i want to know....

Moved from Final Thoughts & Impressions to here.

[Haak]

^ Dude, i was just about to do that. D=

Well I'm shit, I'm doing it anyway:

For anyone that's watched/read/played Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai, what are the similarities and differences between Fate/Stay Night and the other two? I'm planning on watching Fate/Night Stay and i want to know....

[Cherry_Lover]

Well, they're set in the same multiverse, and written by the same writer, but in general they're entirely separate stories.

[Polar_Lord]

Which method of mana transfer is actually canonical? The way described in FSN or the method in Fate Realta Nua?

[orangejuicetang]

My guess? Both. There's probably more than one method of mana transfer.

[Cherry_Lover]

If any method is more canonical, though, then it is almost certainly the Deus Sex Machina method, since it's the original one, and the other version is only there to appease the censors.

Incidentally, I'm not overly convinced that what Rin does in RN UBW is canonical, because if that were an option in the original game, surely Rin would have taken it (rather than the exceptionally uncomfortable sex scene that she clearly wasn't emotionally ready for). And, most likely, the same applies to Fate (although probably not to HF, since I'm pretty sure Sakura would have taken the sexual option quite happily even if there was another alternative...).

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Haak

^ Dude, i was just about to do that. D=

Well I'm shit, I'm doing it anyway:

For anyone that's watched/read/played Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai, what are the similarities and differences between Fate/Stay Night and the other two? I'm planning on watching Fate/Night Stay and i want to know....

same source writer, but studio deen got amalgamation fever when they produced the anime so you get basically a butchered version of the games first two story lines with a splash of the third. If you want to dive in to the fate/stay night genre, pick up the game and play that, it's more satisfying and you don't have terrible CG dragons. Also from story telling point their probably different as KnK is like a procedural, probably it's closer to tuskihime, and the characters are somewhat related, but overall it's more about questioning fate kinda stuff.

[Polar_Lord]

What exactly are Kotomine Kirei's abilities? As a combatant, does he fight like a Magus or more like an Executor?

[orangejuicetang]

Executor

(lol 10 character minimum)

[Polar_Lord]

How does an Executor fight?

[orangejuicetang]

Like a weaker version of ciel.

Assassin, chucking black keys, holding black keys in his hands like wolverine, striking from the shadow, using some weird form of bai quan (or whatever Miyako uses in Melty Blood) which is apparently enough for him to uproot entire full grown trees with just his feet, ect.

[Polar_Lord]

Does Kirei actually use thaumaturgy during battle? Or does he only use it for healing?

And what would be the difference between battle power and thaumaturgy power?

[Blade_Lord]

Thaumaturgy? Well sure they'll use that but expect a holy version of one.

Their elemental affinities would be this:

Ether

エーテル

The Fifth Imaginary Element according to the teachings of the Mage’s Association, it combines itself with any of the other four Elements in order to actualize the mysteries of Thaumaturgy. Although amorphous and incapable of materializing by its own power, it is what allows shapeless bodies to take a material form. Before the advent of Kurokiri Satsuki’s theory on the United Language, it was believed that the reason why mankind was capable of performing powerful mysteries during the Age of Gods was because the positioning of the others' celestial bodies in relation to Earth made the world rich with Ether. Purest, raw form of Grain, its domains are among the lines of composition, dissolution, modification, separation, unification, spiritual bodies, conceptual weapons and others. Known sub-elements: Life, Holy and Eastern Divinations.

[Polar_Lord]

Nasu: Rin really is a genius. Given time, she'll enter within the top 100 magi of the Association throughout its entire history. Shirou won't move out from being an magus apprentice, but as a spell-user, he'll be among one of the big specialists. Ultimately, he'll receive an evaluation on the same level as "Magus Killer" Emiya Kiritsugu had in his peak, maybe. If I were to put into simple numbers, Ciel: 100, Rin: 70-100, Shirou: 10 (under particular limited conditions, then 40).

(Note that the Association has been around since the Middle Ages and is also going to include Atlas and Sea of Estray; also note that this isn't battle power but thaumaturgy power.)

With regards to this quote by Nasu, how is it that Shirou can have a Top 10 ranking (on his best days) when Rin is only in the 70-100 range, considering the fact that Rin is a much more accomplished magus than Shirou?

[kaizer63]

Originally Posted by Polar_Lord

With regards to this quote by Nasu, how is it that Shirou can have a Top 10 ranking (on his best days) when Rin is only in the 70-100 range, considering the fact that Rin is a much more accomplished magus than Shirou?

Simply because he's truly that ridiculous. Shirou will never be a good mage and he'll have very little variety in the thaumaturgy he can do, but his skill in tracing/gradation air is one-of-a-kind. There will, likely, never be another mage as skilled at that as Shirou while Rin, as good as she is, won't develop any particular skill to that extreme. As a whole, Rin is certainly the better mage, but she lacks any big spells (until she masters the 2nd anyways).

[Cherry_Lover]

Err, no, you've got it the wrong way around.

The 10 isn't a ranking, it's his power level. In other words, Nasu is saying that Shirou is 10 times weaker than Ciel/Rin, or (under certain circumstances) about half as strong as Rin.

What he's saying is that Shirou << Rin, except if it a situation which involves tracing, and then he's not too far behind her....

[Polar_Lord]

Ohh, thanks for that Cherry Lover. Now that comment about the numbers being thaumaturgy power and not battle power make a lot more sense.

I would guess that if it were battle power, Shirou would be significantly higher especially with regards to Servant combat?

[Cherry_Lover]

Yeah, probably. Although, it depends on the servant and Rin's jewel supply.

The reason Rin fails so badly at fighting servants is because she fights ones who are best suited to fighting against her, like Saber (because of her magic resistance) and Caster (because she's a better magus than Rin). Against a servant with no magic resistance, she would probably be pretty good.

[willyvereb]

I doubt. Almost every Servant has magic resistance and even if she succeeds breaking that(aka she uses up one of her jewels or more) first she needs to hit the target. Also there are few Servants with so ridiculously high durability that even if she succeeds hitting them it wouldn't do much damage(examples are Gilgamesh in his armor and Berserker...the later through couldn't handle the combined power of 3-4 jewels...the same may apply to Gil).

Generally the Servants are much more stronger than any mage(except the magicians...and even they do have difficulties dealing with them. Aoko for example can't beat Caster in a full-on battle)

Regarding Kotomine:
He's an Executor who specialized fighting mages. He possesses near inhuman physique with grand experience. As others stated he can chop trees in two without any assistance of magic. He can run at 70km/h for example...a monster in the appearance of human. Plus he learned a few magics shortly before the Grail War and has quite a skill too at exorcism. And yes, he uses Black Keys. 1kg heavy throwing swords which he could throw as easily as shurikens. It's no surprise that Rin would lose against him in 8 fights out of 10(stated by Nasu). To repeat myself: he's a monster.

[LostHanyou]

Can servants get hit by, say a bomb, if they aren't in spirit form?

I understand bullets have no effect, but stuff on a larger scale?