2010-07-07, 23:38 | Link #13401 |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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I disagree sort of. If it worked the way Beatrice intended it, (If my thoughts on the scene is correct) then things would be fine.. When you are full of rage at someone, you first have to let go of that anger, otherwise you will never forgive that person. Maria's a young child she probably doesn't understand this, so taking your anger out on something is how she does it. It probably isn't Rosa Maria is actually killing. Remember that was a meta-scene and as Jan-poo said it is a world of metaphors. Maria wants to take her rage out at her mother, so that was how it appeared to happen in the meta-world.
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2010-07-07, 23:39 | Link #13402 |
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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Why are people assuming that Beatrice was supposed to be "nice" all along? "Tragic," "complicated," and "putting on an act to help Batter" don't make her good; she's still a witch, still did the nasty things that we've seen her do. I assumed that her awareness of her awful nature was one of the reasons that she wanted to die and that her on-island counterpart might end the same way.
Yeah, Chiru has been sappy as hell towards her, but since she spent half of it in a coma and the other half as someone else, she couldn't be considered out of character. People's behavior toward her would qualify, I guess, but that's not quite the same. And with EP7 in a month showing the murders, if Meta-Beatrice can be equated with Island-Beatrice, I'm sure (I hope!) that she can be scary again. |
2010-07-07, 23:44 | Link #13403 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-07-08, 00:20 | Link #13404 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I know I'm a twenty pages or so late (sheesh, you guys move fast), but I've got another theory for our two new characters. It's a bit strange, but I think it works nicely.
So, we know for a fact (or a damn good assumption) that the Game Master must play for the magic side of the gameboard. Beato did so in Episode 1-4, Lambda did in 5, and Meta-Battler did in 6. If we are to assume from the end of Episode 6 that Bern is to be the Game Master of Episode 7, then she will have to play for the magic side. So who's to play the human side? My first guess at this one was Mis AuAu, but I get a feeling that she's kind of lazy and would rather have other people doing her work. Second guess was Battler, but after being put through all that hell in previous games, I get the feeling it's time to let him rest. After all, Sorceror Battler shows up once in the new OP. My third guess was that Miss AuAu sends in a meta-human to do her job, like Bern with Erika. And against Bern, who better to send in than a human version of her original opponent, Beatrice? So I still stand by the theory of Red Suit being the human version of Beatrice, who Kinzo was infatuated with. We know that Beatrice was also an avid mystery lover, and that she's familiar with Dine. So maybe, like Erika with Dlanor, she brings in Dine to help her crush the fantasy and solve the mystery. |
2010-07-08, 00:38 | Link #13405 |
Intellectual Rapist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
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Dine is only allowed if he will get as insane as Dlanor did, you know what I mean. With all the CheckFINISHED checkFINISHED checkFINISHED checkcheckcheck FINISHEDFINISHEDFINISHED checkcheckcheckcheckcheckcheckcheckcheck FINISHEDFINISHEDFINISHEDFINISHED FINISHEDFINISHEDFINISHEDFINISHED <Die The death!> <Sentence to death!> <Great equalizer is The Death!> and lines to that effect. That was probably my favorite thing about Dlanor, I don't even know why.
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2010-07-08, 00:44 | Link #13406 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Still, while it would be amusing, I see Dine as more of a serious and sane character, if only for contrast against Dlanor. Fan artists are already drawing him with troll faces, but they don't seem to fit him. On a side note, next time I have to solve a mytery for some inexplicable reason, I am so using Dlanor's lines. |
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2010-07-08, 01:17 | Link #13407 |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
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Wedges?
Hey, I was just thinking about the closed rooms thing, and I think I've come up with something that may help.
This solution is simple; in fact, I'd say it's stupidly easy. But it may solve some of the cases in Umineko. However, it really depends on how the doors function. Suppose the culprit has a wedge with which to keep the doors open. In other words, they could unlock the door from the outside by normal means, place the wedge in the door to keep it open (and thus unlocked), return the key, and commit the crimes in the room. I'll take this a step further: Using the wedge to keep the door open while the crimes are committed, the culprit puts the door in the "lock" position. However, the door does not lock until it closes! Thus, the door is not actually "locked from the inside" until the door closes and the culprit is outside. At least on the doors in my house, the door can be in the "locked" position but still be left ajar. When the door is closed, the door is locked because the lock is in the "locked" position. I do not know if the Ushiromiyas' doors work the same way though; in fact, this definitely will not work if the Ushiromiyas' locks have bolts. It also does not solve the chains (as seen in the Second Twilight of EP1). Before I elaborate on this, I want to know if any of the Red Texts interfere with this idea. I know it can solve the First Twilight in EP2 (based on the English translation) based on all my current knowledge of the Red Texts from EP2-EP5. Battler's idea in EP2 was disproven later on; has there been a conclusive solution to that yet? Boy, I'll feel really silly if this has already been brought up EDIT: Upon rereading the list of the Red Truths, the locking mechanisms on most of the doors disallow the second part of my theory. Regardless, there is nothing in EP2-5 that conflicts with the speculation about the wedges, right? Or am I missing something? Last edited by DaBackpack; 2010-07-08 at 01:36. |
2010-07-08, 02:23 | Link #13408 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-07-08, 03:19 | Link #13409 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Bern does not act the same as Beato. Not remotely.
Bern sets herself up as an ally to the reader even more than Battler. When put in the position of power, she gleefully performs the distasteful (how ever necessary) act of trying to drag these characters we care about through the mud in the most horrible of ways. The only person Beato ever made look bad was herself. She made the rest of the Ushiromiya household look like tragic heroes. That's why we can sympathize and even like her when we realize that she was doing it all on purpose, partially out of pain, misery, and spite, but also to help Battler reach the truth with his own power. One of them betrayed our trust, the other one proved worthy of more trust than we expected. Two completely different scenarios that will provoke two wildly different reactions. Even if you don't think Beato is good or deserving of sympathy--though I've "trusted" her since EP3, even after the ending--I don't think it makes much sense to argue that Bern has similar motivations towards helping Battler or the Ushiromiya family in general.
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2010-07-08, 04:23 | Link #13410 | |
Shall we do it?
Graphic Designer
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2010-07-08, 05:42 | Link #13411 |
Endless Turnless
Join Date: Mar 2010
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And it's not actually only the portrait. The "original" epitaph too. In episode 1, it is mentioned by George/Jessica that Kinzo "Had that written", which means that it was not Kinzo himself who actually put that epitaph there. In fact, it's said that the epitaph was written "two years ago", but nothing more specific than that, which could mean that the portrait and epitaph were not presented simultaneously.
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2010-07-08, 09:07 | Link #13412 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Considering Wright is said to be a lot stronger then he should make full use of such power. I imagine the scene: Witch: I will slash your blue truth with my red! The closed room is... Wright: Sealed. Witch: What the...? Okay then the murder is... Wright: Sealed. Witch: Well then I can counter your blue by making my own blue about... Wright: Sealed. Witch: Okay! You wanted it! Prepare to feel the power of my gold truuuuuuth!!! Wright (evil and insane face): I've got bad news for you: I CAN SEAL GOLD!!! SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED SEALED <Burn to dust!> <ash to the ash!> <rest in peace!> <AAAAAAMEEEEEEEN!!!!!> Quote:
In your example the closed room would become really so only at the time the wedge is removed. But for your theory to work the culprit must be outside at that point. and it is impossible to create a closed room from outside.
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2010-07-08, 09:29 | Link #13413 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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2010-07-08, 11:15 | Link #13414 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I'm still not quite clear on the sealing of the blue in Episode 6, but I'd think it would fit similar reasons. As well, while Bern would be playing for the magic side, she too wants to uncover the human truth of Rokkenjima, so this game looks like it might be like two players holding a chess game just to see what happens when you put one piece here and another here... |
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2010-07-08, 11:20 | Link #13415 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Come to think of it, who the hell is playing the human side in this game? The end of EP6 made it clear that Bernkastel and Featherine weren't going to act like witches, but doesn't there need to be some kind of opponent? Or not?
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2010-07-08, 11:35 | Link #13418 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Well, it really might be. After all, Featherine and Bern called themselves monsters instead of witches. Since the game has always been humans vs witch, this may just be them playing by themselves.
Hmm, another thing. Bern is playing as the Game Master even though she doesn't know the full truth. It might be that her opponent is the game itself. That'd explain the 'ripping the guts out' part too...
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2010-07-08, 11:35 | Link #13419 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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For a completely new player to enter the game you still need to a witch that would bring him there.
But I can't believe Lambda would play on the human side. She's been watching behind the scene of every game so far, she knows all the tricks, it would be too unfair for her to play on the human side. By the way, if Bern's plan is to unravel the truth, how can she make the human side lose? Quote:
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2010-07-08, 11:57 | Link #13420 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Raiding ur fridge
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A thought then, if the meta world is as said earlier a world of metaphors, could Beato be to some extent a metaphor of Battler's motivation as well as the other aspects applied to her? I seem to have gone off on a tangent here and lost what i was going to say... oh well. |
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