Nanoha Manga Discussion

[SWKaizer]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

So the newest Force chapter was indeed lots of talking, but it had Stella making a lot of funny expressions XD Fortis's reactions to her were also great.

Page claim for STELLAAAAAA!

Spoiler for Stela Funy expression!:

I lol at this, lolis in Nanoha FTW!

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I disagree,so far all I see is still villains. Villains with a cause, sure, but still villains. Any time a shred of sympathy appears, the Hucks immediately tear it down again and show us that they neither need nor want our sympathy, so don't see the whole trying to invoke sympathy thing. Even the whole 'infected must kill to survive' thing seems to be more in place to gain sympathy for Touma (who's actually crushed by the revelation) than the Hucks (who've already accepted, gotten used to, and even started enjoying the idea).

This. Very much this. Agreed 100%.

Nowhere have they attempted to make the Huckies sympathetic. There's been no moment or hesitation of remorse, no flashbacks of Cypha watching her family be murdered infront of her, and then get gang raped for days and left to die. No, they just shrug their shoulders and go "We kill people. It's what we do."

[Justin_Brett]

Overall they seem like characters that would really benefit from a more frequent release. There's been no chances to stop and develop things. But then, that's kind of the case for every new character but Touma and maybe Isis (I'll have to see the subs for this when it comes to Lily).

[Kaijo]

And of course, we all know that the Force story ends here, so there will be no more development and nothing else to learn. So we're good to conclude that there is nothing else to these characters. =)

[Demi.]

Okay, now it's time to be veryyy afraid, Fate.

Srsly, how evil can they make Nanoha look.
http://nanoha.bogusx.idv.tw/src/1286241427954.jpg

........................
http://nanoha.bogusx.idv.tw/src/1286241609062.jpg

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

And of course, we all know that the Force story ends here, so there will be no more development and nothing else to learn. So we're good to conclude that there is nothing else to these characters. =)

My, aren't we sarcastic.

We can judge the Huckebain as they have been shown so far. That is our perogative as readers. If the author didn't want us to do so, he wouldn't have released the manga in a monthly chapter form. Every place where a chapter ends is a point where we, the readers, are meant to stop and judge what we see and what we have seen. And as they are now, the Huckebain have not gained sympathy. A few of them have not yet earned hatred or contempt (Arnage and (as of chapter 9.5, which is the farthest I've read) Stella), but nothing has been shown to indicate that any of them are actually decent people. So yes, we judge them now, without seeing the rest of the manga, because now is when we ARE.

Because of the Eclipse infection they're all forced to kill others for their own survival. If they're stuck with it, they might as well enjoy it!

Bah. They are not even remotely close to being the first group of people in fiction with a "kill or die" curse. There are numerous possibilities for dealing with that which do not require homocidal sociopathy. The Hucks are LAZY. They kill people wantonly because that's the easiest way to deal with their problem. They are not struggling against their fate, and so there is nothing admirable or sympathetic in their portrayals.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Okay, now it's time to be veryyy afraid, Fate.

Srsly, how evil can they make Nanoha look.
http://nanoha.bogusx.idv.tw/src/1286241427954.jpg

The White Devil...oh nice! Just where did that fury come from?!

Wait? Is she preparing a spell without raising heart?!
_______________________________________________

About the whole Huckebein thing, to paraphrase Larry Goenick:
"Barbarians are very kind and caring to each other, but they're very brutal and cruel to their enemies"

That's my current impression on them

It's possible that they had sympathetic backgrounds, but we as the reader has yet to see any of it. No signs of trying to contain the bloodlust, no pictures of their former life, no visible attempt to return normal, not even a one-panel flashback, none. If we were suppose to sympathize with them, then the writers are doing a crappy job. Even evil has loved ones, but that didn't stop them from being evil, didn't they? Right now they're one big evil happy family(the loli might be misguided, the others not so much)

I just hope that if we're supposed to feel sorry them instead of hating them, then the writer would start to ease that transition. Otherwise, Huckebein would end up as another Nakago level karma houdinis

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Bah. They are not even remotely close to being the first group of people in fiction with a "kill or die" curse. There are numerous possibilities for dealing with that which do not require homocidal sociopathy. The Hucks are LAZY. They kill people wantonly because that's the easiest way to deal with their problem. They are not struggling against their fate, and so there is nothing admirable or sympathetic in their portrayals.

Actually, the Huckies have shown several times that they only kill when something gets in their way. If Signum had just left Cypha alone, she'd be okay.

Probably :P

We've seen Veyron annoyed that he had to kill those nuns, so he atleast is lazy in the opposite way: killing is too troublesome rather than the easiest solution.

Also, like I said before, the Huckies aren't psycho/sociopaths. If they were, they would would lack the ability to care about anything other than themselves. However, the Huckies all love each other very much.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

About the whole Huckebein thing, to paraphrase Larry Goenick:
"Barbarians are very kind and caring to each other, but they're very brutal and cruel to their enemies"

Great quote!

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Wait? Is she preparing a spell without raising heart?!
_______________________________________________

It's there, I think. I doubt they'd let her charge a STB in the movie manga without her staff, lol.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Actually, the Huckies have shown several times that they only kill when something gets in their way. If Signum had just left Cypha alone, she'd be okay.

Probably :P

I really doubt that, Signum testify Cypha trying to kidnap the kids and she's a TSAB agent, Huckebein's current enemy, and then is Cypha's bloodlust, she's the most willing to kill people so far and aparently she only has two modes: stoic and psycho killer. On the other hand, i agree with Veyron being a bit more complex he's more snarky than crazy and is very cinical about the "i must kill" thing, clearly and freely admiting that they're villanious mass murderer by any looks.

Fortis on the other hand i feel that he's the truly evil one of the group(i mean Cypha is evil but is the "two-dimensional" kind of evil, gloating over her victories and mocking people) he talks gently but throws some really disturbing little bombs in mid-sentence and is the kind of guy who can go killing people calmly while reading the newspaper and hearing Frank Sinatra(Unlike Veyron who find it annoyng and Cypha who goes nuts on killing).

An interesting thing is that the "cure" they're developing is very suspicious, sure they talk about how they need to kill and that the world can accept them yadda yadda.... but also gloat about their invincibility everytime they can and don't look much trouble about their conditions, i guess that some of them doesen't even want to return to being "normal people", as always the younger ones are also the mos probable candidates to be redeemed, at first i think of Arnage as younger Quattro but i still need to watch more about her, but Stella at the moment fits almost perfetcly the mold for "innocent but corrupted" child.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I really doubt that, Signum testify Cypha trying to kidnap the kids and she's a TSAB agent, Huckebein's current enemy, and then is Cypha's bloodlust, she's the most willing to kill people so far and aparently she only has two modes: stoic and psycho killer.

Cypha herself says "It wasn't our original intent to carry out needless killing, but the need arose." So it's not like she's out for blood, but if the situation calls for it, she doesn't have any particular qualms about it.

So the Hucks kill when they need to. I can think of 5 situations where this is needed:

1.) For a job
2.) Eliminate witnesses
3.) Some one gets in their way
4.) Some one attacks them
5.) Their 'time limit' is about to run out (though I imagine their jobs give them ample opportunities to prevent themselves from reaching that point)

Does any of that make what they did okay? Heck no, but it shows that evil does indeed have standards.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

About the whole Huckebein thing, to paraphrase Larry Goenick:
"Barbarians are very kind and caring to each other, but they're very brutal and cruel to their enemies"

That's my current impression on them

So...would that make Veyron a male tsun towards the other Hucks?

[Justin_Brett]

That's a good case of Show, Don't Tell, Raiser. It's fine to have a character say they have moral fiber, but eventually you need to have actual evidence. Which would be helpful, since this killers for hire thing has been kinda vague so far.

I'm also reminded of a quote from TV Tropes when I think of them, actually.

One of the main themes of the movie is civilization versus savagery, with Arthur Burns representing savagery. He thinks like a wild animal and only cares about his family. Everyone else is fair game to be raped and/or murdered.

Fortis even says as much, really, and I'll admit it's an interesting them to bring up in a show with so many families.

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Wait? Is she preparing a spell without raising heart?!

It's more like she collects energy with her left hand only and then fire with RH. It does differ from the serie a bit.

And she certainly deserves her title of White Devil in this chapter. I for one like this expression they gave her, of cold determination to achieve her goal. But I guess she will have to pay the price later...

Spoiler for Looking bad here...:

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Okay, now it's time to be veryyy afraid, Fate.

Srsly, how evil can they make Nanoha look.
http://nanoha.bogusx.idv.tw/src/1286241427954.jpg

........................
http://nanoha.bogusx.idv.tw/src/1286241609062.jpg

....

Fate's gonna get raped.

[Justin_Brett]

Wow. Well, at least it's a little less one-sided than their fight in the show.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

It's more like she collects energy with her left hand only and then fire with RH. It does differ from the serie a bit.

And she certainly deserves her title of White Devil in this chapter. I for one like this expression they gave her, of cold determination to achieve her goal. But I guess she will have to pay the price later...

Spoiler for Looking bad here...:

The duel sure got brutal for just being a "test" match...

Fate just has some clothing damage that I'm aware of. Or to be more precise, she's no longer wearing any.

I want more pages, Nina. >':

[Tabasco]

Alas Fate, we hardly knew ye.

Looks like Nanoha's self destructive tendencies start a bit earlier in this timeline. Not that I'm surprised.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That's a good case of Show, Don't Tell, Raiser. It's fine to have a character say they have moral fiber, but eventually you need to have actual evidence. Which would be helpful, since this killers for hire thing has been kinda vague so far.

True, but there hasn't actually been a chance for them to show their 'merciful' side. Not on a large scale, anyways. We do have the example of them not killing Lily and Isis, and Fortis's order to shake off the Bureau's battleship 'like usual' rather than wiping it out.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

And she certainly deserves her title of White Devil in this chapter. I for one like this expression they gave her, of cold determination to achieve her goal. But I guess she will have to pay the price later...

Spoiler for Looking bad here...:

I've just realize that there's some chest plate thingy behind her jacket...very Gundamish