Nanoha Manga Discussion

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I don't think Fortis is lying. What reason would he have to? He was pretty frank about everything including how his people would have done worse things to Thoma's village. If he was lying so Thoma would join their family, why would he lie about a cure when he didn't lie about something that would make Thoma have a worse opinion of them?

Of course it's possible that Fortis and the others are unaware of a Bureau created cure.

I'm actually thinking more along the line of the attitude that a cure is impossible, regardless of whether one exists at the present.

What do you mean not an immediate threat? Thanks to the book, Thoma now sees everything in "dangerous/not dangerous" vision. Lily posed no threat so she was fine, but Isis was marked as dangerous and she spat out a fountain of blood because of it. What do you think those who attempt to take Thoma into custody would be considered?

After which event, he immediately started talking normally to Fortis and Stella and attempted to help Isis and Lily. This condition is clearly not one that's constantly in effect (indeed, if he "cannot differentiate between surroundings and people," then how could he talk to Subaru by name and identify her?).

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

This condition is clearly not one that's constantly in effect (indeed, if he "cannot differentiate between surroundings and people," then how could he talk to Subaru by name and identify her?).

Because he recognizes her voice, Tohma even made note of that:

"That voice ...Su-chan?"

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Because he recognizes her voice, Tohma even made note of that:

"That voice ...Su-chan?"

Yes, but the point is that he can still identify her. She's Subaru, not a wall.

[Justin_Brett]

Maybe he was trying to reassure Touma, in an 'it could have been worse' way. Some of these guys are a little out there, after all (**** a lobster, anyone?).

Plus the dude's waaaaay too shifty to be completely forthright about everything.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

I'm actually thinking more along the line of the attitude that a cure is impossible, regardless of whether one exists at the present.

That's not their attitude at all, though. At least it wasn't at first. Fortis speaks of attempts to find a treatment, and while they did have a little success, they were unable to cure it completely.

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

After which event, he immediately started talking normally to Fortis and Stella and attempted to help Isis and Lily. This condition is clearly not one that's constantly in effect (indeed, if he "cannot differentiate between surroundings and people," then how could he talk to Subaru by name and identify her?).

It's in constant effect in that Thoma's vision is now that Terminator/Predator view. He's able to speak normally but when he was chatting with Fortis there were no threats around him. Lily was always okay, and Isis was knocked out and thus removed as a threat. The Book didn't need to be on alert.

He identified Subaru by her voice, so his hearing is unaffected. Everyone in that room was incapacitated to various degrees, so again the Book didn't need to be on alert. Thoma can control his actions such as blasting a hole in the ship, but it's his automated defense system that he has no control over. It just reacts to any sort of hostility regardless of friend or foe. That's where the danger is.

[Justin_Brett]

...wait, what if Touma just shuts his eyes, then, if it's by sight?

[Kaijo]

Fortis probably isn't lying, but you can be greatly deceptive and still tell the truth. Just tell bits of the truth so that someone is led to a conclusion all on their own. I don't think he's deceiving Thoma too much, but I'd lay odds he isn't telling everything yet, until Thoma officially joins them.

[Nightengale]

Assuming a cure exist, or TSAB/Huckies are in the process of making them, Thoma doesn't know of it.

You may call Thoma pessimistic, but it's hard to be optimistic when you can barely perceive anyone else, see the world through some sort of Terminator-Threat Thermal Eyes, and automatically disables or come close to killing anyone which shows even a minimal level of caution against him. Throw in the fact that he never ever truly recovered from his traumatic past, and is now relapsing a horrible emotional mind-twister, it's only normal to just seek the easy way out.

I've said that Emoha was kinda unrealistic in some context in the Movie 1st. But Thoma's Emoma' moment actually makes sense, since he's being portrayed as a child trying to find a measure of peace, comes extremely close to reaching it, but then had the world tumbling down on him several times over.

[Rising Dragon]

IIRC Fortis made mention of them having a way around the Kill or Die reqs of the Eclipse. I'd have to go check to see if I'm not misremembering it though.

[00-Raiser]

Chapter 8, page 21 Fortis says they do have a way to supress the virus. But later on page 26 he says that not even God can help Thoma now.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Chapter 8, page 21 Fortis says they do have a way to supress the virus. But later on page 26 he says that not even God can help Thoma now.

when God can't help, that is when you ask for the Devil.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

when God can't help, that is when you ask for the Devil.

And that tends to be the reason that the world ends up doomed.

Just ask the blind sage.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Was the StrikerS manga put out before the anime?

By half of year.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Also, if I recall, the beginning of the StrikerS manga took place several years before the actual series (although the first and second episode flashback to the airport fire).

And what?

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Lastly, considering they just announced a second movie, I assume all their animation budget will be poured into that, so any actual Force series will be a long time in coming, ie, after the second movie.

Which doesn't mean that Force manga is not prequel to something after it.

[mechdra]

I had a felling that Touma will over come the effect of the virus through sher courage and willpower!There is other power that is greater than courage and willpower!

From the last page of the Force latest chapter, I can see that we wrll have Nanoha vs Touma with a very high chance that Touma absorb SLB and return it back to Nanoha.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I've said that Emoha was kinda unrealistic in some context in the Movie 1st. But Thoma's Emoma' moment actually makes sense, since he's being portrayed as a child trying to find a measure of peace, comes extremely close to reaching it, but then had the world tumbling down on him several times over.

I agree. What Thoma is ding is realistic for a human being. He's messing up in a believable way, which is good writing. But that still makes Nanoha correct in that he's reacting emotionally to something and needs his head cooled so he can think clearer, much like Teana did.

Originally Posted by al103

By half of year.


And what?

The StrikerS manga essentially starts right at the end of the A's epilogue, which is 4 years before StrikerS. Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate transform on top of the school, and get beamed up to the Arthra, and then go on to battle some drones for the first time.

The rest of the manga takes place in spurts between portions of the story, while also having some chapters devoted to background of what characters were up to, and what they felt, before and during the series. Would be kinda odd to release all that before the series, unless they released the manga concurrently with the series itself.

Which doesn't mean that Force manga is not prequel to something after it.

Maybe, but you can't judge that based on the StrikerS manga; the two are nothing alike. The StikerS manga only gave the barest hint of the plot, and was mainly backstory before the series, and then had thoughts from some characters at points during the series, complete with the extended epilogue after. In short, covering the gaps.

Force has been all plot so far, much heavier than StrikerS. I'll admit there is always a possibility it could be a prequel for an anime series, but it's highly doubtful. At this point, it can pretty much stand as a story on it's own, and any anime series would almost count as a new season.

The only way I can see this working, is via suggestions from the title: Magical War Chronicle Lyrical Nanoha Force. So the manga deals with the Hucks, and when that gets resolved, they see it was only the tip of the iceberg, and somehow there are many planets that start to go to war, and they'd put out a 26 anime series dealing with their attempts to stop the wars.

Which would follow the natural thought of the manga being it's own story, but leading into another season. Not much like the StrikerS manga and anime, which were intertwined throughout their run.

[narubu]

Anyone care to try and translate this short piece by Leohart's blog partner, STC?

http://leoheart.blog43.fc2.com/blog-entry-636.html

It looks interesting...

[aers]

Full Japanese spoiler for Movie Manga Seq 1-10 "Therefore, the hand is held out."

Spoiler for text!:

オオオオオオ・・・
※海中に沈むフェイト。
※海上のなのは、右目の近くから出血、目の前の海が割れている
なのは『出し切った』『わたしの中のなにもかも全部――』

Magical　Girl　Ryrical　NANOHA　MOVIE　1st THE　COMICS
Sequence:1-10 「Therefore, the hand is held out.」　
すべてが終わり、その手に残ったもの――

エイミィ「フェイトちゃん魔力残量１％以下」「意識喪失完全撃墜」
※海上に浮かぶフェイト。
クロノ「試合終了だ」「アルフ　ユーノ　２人の救助を頼む」
アルフ、ユーノ「了解！」
クロノ「それから医療班を　フェイトもだがなのはのほうも十分危ない」
エイミィ「了解！」

※ビルの上のなのは、ユーノの治療を受けている
なのは「あの」「フェイトちゃんは――？」
救護班「平気だよ　魔力ダメージで失神してるだけ」
※担架の上のフェイト。
救護班「体には傷ひとつないよ　なのはちゃんが上手に撃ったおかげだね」
なのは「よかった」（はあっ）

ユーノ「ダメージで言えば　なのはのほうが　ずっと酷いんだから　……おとなしくしてて」
なのは「大丈夫だよ　飛んできた瓦礫とかに当たっただけだし……」「フェイトちゃんちゃんと非殺傷で撃って くれた」
クロノ（通信）「なのは」
なのは「あ　クロノくん」
クロノ「いい試合を見せてもらった……と称えてやるべきなんだろうが」
　「それ以前に君の空戦は無茶苦茶に過ぎる」「説教と指導事項が山ほどあるから覚悟しておくよ うに」
なのは「うう……はい……」
クロノ「だいたい魔力収束なんて高等技術いつどこで覚えたんだ」
なのは「ええと……その……なんとなく　思いついたの」
　「試してみて出来そうだったから練習して　戦術を組んで　でも　練習はいっぱいしたんだよ」
クロノ「いやそれはわかるが」
エイミィ（くっくっくっ）
エイミィ「とりあえずなのはちゃん　限界越えて　魔力使っちゃってるからね」
　「しばらくは飛んだりはねたりも不自由するかもね」
なのは「うう……はい…」

エイミィ「じゃあフェイトちゃんを先に転送するから」
※魔法陣の中に担架に載せたフェイトを救護班が運び、アルフが付き添う
救護班「ユーノくん　ごめん！　ちょっとだけ手伝って」
ユーノ「あ　はいっ」
フェイト「ん……」『あれ――』『あの子だ――』
※うっすらと目を開け、ボロボロになったなのはを見ながら
フェイト『そうか』『わたし負けたんだ』『ボロボロだな』『わたしはまた――　あの子に酷いこ とを――』
※風が吹いてきている
フェイト『ああフラフラしてる』『危ないよ』『わたしよりあの子を先に――』
※なのは、つまづいてビルから落下、アルフ、ユーノたちは救護班と話していて気付いていない　下 には瓦礫が

※ここからフェイト、回想
『今まで　何度も』
『願いごとに　手を伸ばしては』『届かなくて』　※プレシアを思い出すフェイト
リニス「ありがとうフェイト」「お見送りは　ここまでで大丈夫ですよ」
フェイト「リニス――」
フェイト『叶えられなくて』
リニス「じゃあいってきます――」
※雪の森の中に去っていくリニス、涙を流す昔のフェイト
フェイト『わたしの手はいつだって』『願いごとには届かなくて』

※回想終了、担架から一瞬にして飛び立つフェイト、落ちるなのはを追う
『掴めないかもしれない』『だけど今度は』『掴めるかもしれない』『だからこの手を伸ばして』『もしも届い たなら』
フェイト「よい…ッ」「しょッッ！！」
※なのはを受け止めるフェイト
『ちゃんと両手で抱きしめて』
フェイト「だ……大丈夫ッ！？」
なのは「あ」「あの」「はいっ」
フェイト「ごめん　私もあまり飛んでいられない」「どこか降りられる場所を――」
なのは「あ　うんっ！」
フェイト「でも　落ちたらごめん……」「君　泳げる？」
なのは「い　一応少しなら！」
ザパーン　きゃーっ
アルフ「ああッ！言ってるそばから落ちたッ！？」
ユーノ「いや　まあ大丈夫」「すぐ近くに足場があるから」

フェイト「ごめん　大丈夫？」ぜー　ぜー
なのは「フェ……　フェイトちゃんこそ！」
なのは「あの……助けてくれたんだよね？」「ありがとうフェイトちゃん」
フェイト「君が落ちたところ……瓦礫があって」「もし飛べなかったら危ないって思って――」
なのは「うわホントだ！落ちたら危なかった！」
フェイト「うん――」「でも」「無事で良かった」
なのは「うん――ありがとう　フェイトちゃん」
フェイト『ああ　まただ』『眩しいくらいに優しい笑顔』
　『この子はどうして』『こんな私に』『こんなに私に笑ってくれるんだろう』

アルフ「フェイト！大丈夫――？」
フェイト「アルフ」
ユーノ「なのはも！」
なのは「わたしもへいき――！」「ごめんね心配かけて」
フェイト『ああ　そうだ』『この子「なのは」って名前なんだ』
なのは「そうだ！フェイトちゃんも！　思いっきり撃っちゃったから魔力ほとんどないはずなのに ――」
　「ごめんねほんとにありがとう」
フェイト「その」「わたしのほうが」「ずっと酷いことしたから」
　『わたしのほうこそ』『ちゃんと言わなきゃいけないんだ』
なのは「そんなことないよ！　わたし頑丈だから！」
フェイト『「ごめんね」と「ありがとう」と――』『それから――』

こんなに近くても、２人の距離はいまだ遠く……　（１月号につづく）

以上、まだきてなかったみたいなので。

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Keroko, I've always respected you up until now. But then you said the "Yaoi" word, and now I have to hate you!

Hypocricy, thy name is man.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I agree. What Thoma is ding is realistic for a human being. He's messing up in a believable way, which is good writing. But that still makes Nanoha correct in that he's reacting emotionally to something and needs his head cooled so he can think clearer, much like Teana did.

Clearing his head, however, won't solve the problem of him potentially killing anyone who is detected as a threat. As Isis showed, even being on guard and not directly attacking at all is enough for the book to decide 'splat.' Unless they have a cure ready which can be applied the moment they knock Touma out, this might be a case where shooting big pink beams won't solve the problem.

[00-Raiser]

Even if Nanoha knocked Thoma out, the Book would still remain active. Heck, it would become even more dangerous since its host is unconsious and it would need to work harder to protect him. Isis just got knocked out but next time...

[Kaijo]

Yeah, but they don't know that. They are still operating under the assumption they can knock him out, and probably keep him sedated until they can devise a cure. At the least, they don't want Subaru to cry because Thoma took his own life.

It's good writing, as none of the characters knows the full details that the audience knows, and thus it's bringing them into conflict.