Gundam SEED DESTINY (Phase 5 Discussion)

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by pyu

I'm surprised you didn't get it despite 50 episodes of SEED. Uzumi's idea was simple - that Coordinators and Naturals would be able to live and coexist together if they worked at it. He actively worked against and dispelled the anti-Coordinator propaganda that Blue Cosmos and many others were spreading. He ensured that in ORB, Coordinators and Naturals would continue to live together without inter-racial conflict.

I think Orb's neutrality was a direct result of his idea - and with these two factors, Orb grew quite strong by benefitting from the presence of both Coordinators and Naturals who settled there trying to avoid the strict racial discrimination policies instituted by both the PLANTs and the Earth Alliance.

Personally, I find Shinn to be terribly simple minded. ORB was his home and he and his family was living in relative peace and harmony (compared to the prosecution that other Coordinators faced on Earth) because of Uzumi's policies. Just because of an attack from the combined Earth Alliance forces, he turns against ORB and their leaders for "being weak". I'm sorry Mr. Shinn Asuka, but the MS force of Ashtrays and ORB's fleet had held out for quite a respectable period of time. Unless your ZAFT training brainwashed you thinking a Coordinator in a MS can go in with 1 to 1000 odds, you are a fool to think a military midget like ORB can stand against the might of the Earth Alliance. I really wonder what does Shinn know about the real facts behind the EA's attack on ORB in the first place.

I am also unsure what crack dreamless is smoking by saying nobody in ORB besides Uzumi had these ideals. Are you taking Shinn's warped point of view to indicate that everyone who left ORB and settled in PLANT after the EA's attack detested Uzumi and his ideals?

Near the end, Uzumi and his fellow ORB leaders had no choices left to them except to order the evacuation of their nation. I agree that the destruction of the mass driver was only symbolic - though I can't deny the look at apoplexy on Azrael's face when he realised he was denied was precious. The melodrama in that particular episode was quite nauseating if you linger upon it for too long.

Turning to the PLANTs and ZAFT was not a viable choice - you've heard of the old chinese phrase "Distant waters cannot help put out this nearby fire"? The same analogy applies - in addition, also you must remember ZAFT was recovering from Alaska.

Also, Uzumi and ORB was in a different situation from Relena and the Sanc Kingdom - her enemies wanted to dominate the world, not exterminate an entire sub-branch of the human race. Uzumi surrendering to the EA would be the symbolic equivalent of surrendering the Coordinators of his nation to the wolves of Blue Cosmos. Think again, do you honestly think that the likes of Azrael and the remaining Earth Alliance leadership would allow time to be given to evacuate ORB's civillian Coordinator population to the PLANTs?

You make it sound like that Uzumi and Cagalli are fools for advocating pacifist idealogies. Do you understand that if there are no true peacemakers, there would be no peace. Cagalli might be undiplomatic and sounding like a terrible fool for making such anti-war (and rather silly in retrospect) statements in front of Shinn and the others - but then again, she's not a natural diplomat in the first place.

The wars, battles and conflicts in SEED and SEED Destiny are different because they all have this tinge of racial discrimination and genocide pervading through them.

I hope all of you who think Cagalli is living in some la-la land for having these ideals should rethink why she is having them in the first place. She has lost friends, the father who raised her, and perhaps everyone who she grew up with in ORB - in return, she is now burdened with continuing her father's mission and to continue leading her nation in these uncertain times.

pyu, you should say that to zealot instead of me, because he said "Uzumi stands by his ideals till the end" by fighting EA and not asking for help from ZAFT, and asking for help from ZAFT or surrendering to EA will mean "abandoning his ideals". I'm wondering what he mean by the "ideals" in his post. It doesn't go against the Natural&Coordinator coexisting ideal for asking help from ZAFT, and there are quite some PLANT-supporting nations with Naturals on Earth. And blowing himself up doesn't seem to have anything to do with Natural&Coordinator coexisting. So I guess zealot must mean something else.

And actually there's a ZAFT fleet nearby and ZAFT has sent offer of help to Uzumi, so the ZAFT fleet can surely help them if Uzumi accepted the offer.

Uzumi waging a completely hopeless war and then blowing himself and some others up doesn't seem to uphold any kind of ideals. And since he's practically the dictator over Orb, of course there will be people hating him for doing something they don't agree with, and rightly so. You should realize that not everyone must agree with Uzumi's ideals and policies. Especially since his policies are so messed up.

I'm not saying there are no one else agreeing with Uzumi's ideals, but some people agreeing with him doesn't make it the country's ideals. It's still his personal ideals. And I'm not sure what crack you are smoking when saying that I said "nobody in ORB besides Uzumi had these ideals", can you quote the line where I said this? I don't remember I have said anything like that. "not everyone agree with his ideals" doesn't mean "noone agrees with his ideals". that should be some simple logic.

pyu, next time I hope you read other's posts carefully before trying to reply.

[zealot]

Orb's ideals are well listed

1) To commit no act of aggression against another nation

2) Never allow Orb to be invaded

3) Never interfere in another country's conflicts

Joining EA or ZAFT would mean breaking rule 3. Uzumi was trying to live by these rules. His personal view of coordinators and naturals living peacefully was never documented, but that is what all peace loving people would want anyway


My suggestion is that we stop this discussion. This thread is for discussion of phase 5, not Orb's policies. If needed a new thread can be started

[wao]

Uh, but aren't there always going to be people disagreeing with Uzumi's actions even if it was a democracy? Not everyone needs to agree with his policies either way... What's the proof that the country in general disagrees with his policies? We don't see it of course, but that means we can't assume there is general agreement or disagreement: I don't think Shinn provides a sufficient sample size to base any results on...

Also, somehow just dismissing everything Uzumi has done and focusing simply on the fact that he blew himself up and thus concluding that Uzumi wasn't upholding any ideals at all...

And perhaps he just seems like a dictator because they had no time showing the other members of the government doing anything... Just because they only show Uzumi doing everything doesn't mean he is doing everything, unless you see the other people shown as not being able to do anything or not doing anything at all...

Bah. I should shut up too...

Well anyway, yeah, it's an interesting discussion but it should go into another topic... mumble mumble >_>

...meanwhile let's focus on Gilbert and how evil he looked in this ep >=O !!
Just what was he planning, I wonder? He seems to have expected Athrun to want to fight... Crafty Athrun doing it while Cagalli was asleep...

I'm starting to think Taria saying "There are no pilots [for the MSes]" to him was specifically worded in a way that is more likely to prod Athrun into considering actually getting into one of them... Seeing that Gilbert and Taria now have a much higher chance of being in cahoots (I mean, who can resist that all-knowing look), it's possible?
But I remember one scene in ep 5 where Taria had this emotional look in her eyes while Gilbert suggested something... what was that about?

[pyu]

dreamless, I apologize if you percieved the entirety of my post to be directed at you. Much of it is also in response to other posts in the thread.

However, previously, in no uncertain terms, you described Uzumi as a benevolent dictator. You stated the views that ORB held as policy were uncharacteristically his own and not everyone agreed with him.

May I ask you, what do you think were Uzumi's ideals? You described his ideals and derived policies as "messed up". I would like to know what you understand as his ideals in the first place - I have already put up what I believe was to be his ideals, I would like to know what you think what he thought was so "messed up" that some people didn't agree with him.

Let me restate - Uzumi advocated peaceful coexistence between Coordinators and Naturals. He steadfastly rejected the racial discrimination policies adopted by many Earth Alliance nations and rejected the concept that Coordinators had to live seperately from Naturals. He also rejected the war that broke out between the PLANTs and the Earth Alliance.

What was so objectionable about that?

On his policy of neutrality, Uzumi maintained it - to keep ORB out of the war. Unfortunately, his authority was not absolute as you think - people went around him to work with the Earth Alliance to develop the Gundams. If your memory serves you well, he took responsibility for that and resigned.

From then on, I suspected he knew conflict would come to ORB sooner or later. The Earth Alliance now knew that ORB had the technology to build mobile suits that were better than theirs. Uzumi was hardly an inflexible, idealouge spouting philosopher. ORB started to construct the Ashtrays and plans to evacuate his people were made.

The only things that were potentially "messed up" about ORB's situation was perhaps at the end, Uzumi did not make enough alliances, nor did he sought aid from other Coordinator friendly nations.

As for Cagalli, I only have the words "young", "unsuited for her role", etc, ad infinitum for her. I hope she grows more into her role as time comes, but I fear that the machinations of more powerful nations will put paid to her and ORB's future.

So dreamless, if you think ORB's past and present leadership are "messed up" just because Shinn thinks so - and well, he feels that way because his family died "pointlessly", well...

Anyway, enough of this arguing. This is about Ep 5, and not the socio-political situation in a fictional universe that was probably poorly written and constructed.

[dreamless]

he holds absolute power in this country even after his official resignation is enough proof that he's a dictator. the political system is obviously not a democracy when someone who has already resigned can hold more power than the current official leader.

in democracy surely people can agree/disagree with certian policies, and express their own ideas. and that's exactly what democracy is for. not letting one single person to hold all the power and decide the future of the everyone according to his own ideas.

Originally Posted by zealot

Orb's ideals are well listed

1) To commit no act of aggression against another nation

2) Never allow Orb to be invaded

3) Never interfere in another country's conflicts

Joining EA or ZAFT would mean breaking rule 3. Uzumi was trying to live by these rules. His personal view of coordinators and naturals living peacefully was never documented, but that is what all peace loving people would want anyway


My suggestion is that we stop this discussion. This thread is for discussion of phase 5, not Orb's policies. If needed a new thread can be started

He has already violated rule 3 when he traded with Archangel to protect and resupply it in exchange to examine its data and use it for his own MS development. He again violated rule 3 when protecting Archangel which is labelled as a traitor by EA. And he's violating rule 2 when he clearly knows without ZAFT's help he can't defend against EA's invasion. Also asking help from ZAFT to repel an EA invasion is not exactly violating rule 3. That's not interfering another country's conflict, that's just asking another country's help to fight off the invasion of his own country. And in the end he could not protect his people, Orb was taken over by EA and practically no more, and his people either became part of EA or fled to ZAFT.

Oh and my view on Uzumi has nothing to do with Shin. Naturally, my view on Uzumi was pretty settled when I watched him cosplaying Sephiroth at the end of ep40 of SEED (well, since he's no more beyond that point ). About how Uzumi's policies are messed up, I think I have listed 4 examples in the previous page. basically he keeps interfering other countries' affairs and pissing them off time and again. I'd say he shouldn't do things like pissing everyone off if he wants peaceful coexistence and neutrality. he shouldn't use the technologies acquired from EA to build his own Gundams and MS. sure "using new technology for one's own advantage is what anyone will do", but Uzumi has proven by his actions that he doesn't necessarily do things that "anyone will do". If he can decline ZAFT's offer of help when fighting a completely hopeless war, and blow himself up, to supposedly uphold his ideals, I don't see why he couldn't refrain himself from using the new technologies for his own advantage to uphold his ideals.

[pyu]

dreamless, it seems you are set upon your perception of Uzumi. I believe nothing that anyone else would say would change that since you believe almost everyone around Uzumi was nothing more than his brainwashed puppets, without brains, thoughts and motivations of their own. You also equate all the actions taken by ORB personnel to be equivalent to under Uzumi's orders.

And if you can percieve him in that manner, you probably hope Shinn will blow Cagalli a new one if they meet on the field in their mobile suits.

If you thought ORB could obtain ZAFT's aid in driving off the Earth Alliance without losing substantial concessions to Patrick Zala's radical faction, well...

I salute you.

[zealot]

Originally Posted by pyu

dreamless, it seems you are set upon your perception of Uzumi. I believe nothing that anyone else would say would change that since you believe almost everyone around Uzumi was nothing more than his brainwashed puppets, without brains, thoughts and motivations of their own. You also equate all the actions taken by ORB personnel to be equivalent to under Uzumi's orders.

And if you can percieve him in that manner, you probably hope Shinn will blow Cagalli a new one if they meet on the field in their mobile suits.

If you thought ORB could obtain ZAFT's aid in driving off the Earth Alliance without losing substantial concessions to Patrick Zala's radical faction, well...

I salute you.

I totally agree with u

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by pyu

dreamless, it seems you are set upon your perception of Uzumi. I believe nothing that anyone else would say would change that since you believe almost everyone around Uzumi was nothing more than his brainwashed puppets, without brains, thoughts and motivations of their own. You also equate all the actions taken by ORB personnel to be equivalent to under Uzumi's orders.

And if you can percieve him in that manner, you probably hope Shinn will blow Cagalli a new one if they meet on the field in their mobile suits.

If you thought ORB could obtain ZAFT's aid in driving off the Earth Alliance without losing substantial concessions to Patrick Zala's radical faction, well...

I salute you.

Hehe, somehow I totally agree with you, pyu, indeed it seems you are completely set upon your perception of Uzumi, I believe nothing that anyone else would say would change that since you apparently believe Uzumi is the God of Peace and Love who is always correct and anyone who questions Uzumi's ideals are wrong and everyone should follow Uzumi. And you believe Uzumi is always doing things to uphold his ideals perfectly, despite the fact that he's constantly doing things to interfere with other countries' conflicts and pissing others off, practically asking for trouble all the time. You also believe he's not a dictator despite the fact that after official resignation, he still holds all the power over the country and makes decisions all the time. And you probably hope Uzumi can somehow save all his people from Patrick Zala's radical faction and Blue Cosmos when his country is no more because of his decisions of fighting a hopeless war and blowing himself up, and all Orb people left can only follow EA or ZAFT anyway, without a nation of their own. If you think everyone should worship Uzumi as the perfect leader and the incarnate of all that is right and good, at the same time ignoring all the facts that suggest otherwise, well...

I salute you.

Originally Posted by zealot

I totally agree with u

Hehe, I totally agree with you too and I salute you too for your absolute faith and worship of the great God who lives on forever in burning flames Uzumi

oh, and just help to point out, you and pyu seem to have different ideas about what Uzumi's ideals really are, so I advise you two to sort out your ideas first Uzumi is surely shown quite active in messing around other countries' conflicts and affairs, taking in an EA ship attacked by ZAFT, then taking advantage of it to make them help you develop your own weapons surely is interfering other countries' conflicts and affairs.

Now finally watched episode 5 subbed, I have quite some mixed feelings about this episode

Spoiler for episode5:

first it seems everyone's IQ continues to plummet, starting with Cagalli, who decided to pick on some random soldier who was obviously joking, and despite when his fellow soldiers, including Shin, were apparently not really happy with his inappropriate joke, went on a rage and started saying things like "I know all ZAFT people think like this!" Hmm... she seemed to forget that Athrun who was just beside her was also once a ZAFT soldier... And Athrun was clearly quite annoyed by it.

And then it's Shin's turn, now he actually starts blaming Athha for killing his family... okay I thought he was just disapproving of Uzumi's policies, but he really should know better than blaming the death of his family all on Uzumi, not to mention Cagalli. Even if Uzumi's policies was one of the reasons that resulted in the death of his family, now it seems the focus of his hatred is actually on the Athha, which seems quite illogical to say the least.

And then those old guys in Djibril's house... oh well it reminds me of the Syndicate in X-Files and the Soldats in Noir... so I guess Blue Cosmos is still holding vast power over EA... However those people really don't seem like having high IQs... Djibril actually plans to blame the Junius 7 falling incident on the Coordinators because... they built the PLANTs? And everyone else agree? umm... I think it was those EA countries who built the PLANTs to do research and manufacture for them, not to mention it was EA who blew Junius 7 up... This Djibril doesn't sound too bright, but then I guess everyone else are just dumber

About the good things, well, Yzak and Dearka! and Yzak sure looks fantastic! And Athrun finally getting onto a MS and saying "Athrun Zala, launch!" Can't wait to see next episode

Also I guess it's finally revenge time for Yzak, as Talia ordered everyone to "obey commander Joule's orders", guess finally Yzak gets Athrun under his command now

[wao]

Ah cripes, I hardly think pyu was exaggerating it to that aspect... (if that was just meant to make fun of pyu's comments then I have no comment...) I don't think anyone else on the thread would agree that his standpoint was completely and blatantly making Uzumi look like some god and goodness incarnate - of course he isn't a god - and it seems like the whole argument basically was about "is it better to stop hanging onto Orb and surrender, thus letting the citizens choose the side they are less likely to be prosecuted in, or to accept people's help in fighting a (losing - as admitted by both sides) war, but therefore subjecting either Naturals (by siding with ZAFT) or Coordinators (by siding with EA)" but I think I'll stop here... I have no courage to make a new thread :P

and somehow I thought that just because you're attacked by another country doesn't mean you're magically non-neutral. Isn't that a flaw in logic?

My own conclusion is I put it down to bad writing or simply a contradictory character: he does do those weird things with the Archangel earlier which was a big nono... he contradicted himself doing those things and then doing something else later (yeah yeah, I'm tired)...

Furthermore, that whole stepping down thing is showing how the plot became so convoluted that things started to not make sense: Uzumi is important as a leader because of Cagalli's importance, however, because the MSes were produced in Orb Uzumi HAD to go as the main leader - so really, we should see a new person coming in and doing stuff instead of Uzumi being a dictator, but my take is that because they had to keep Uzumi there for "the story's sake" and because of Cagalli again, they focussed on him so much there was no time to bring in yet another player (namely the next leader) so they conveniently ignore that....

What's more, Orb's ideals as listed by zealot already contradict themselves. I am tired so maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but how on earth can you accomplish No. 2 (Never allow Orb to be invaded) without accomplishing No. 1 (To commit no act of aggression against another nation)?!

With all of that then maybe it makes sense why Cagalli is in such a screwed up position and is relegated to "losing her IQ" in dreamless' words. I have to agree... Her mind must really be clouded for her to do such things. She just can't handle it. It's... stupid. Why can't we have any cool girls in this series, for crying out loud?! Aaargh

[dreamless]

oh well, I guess I just think it's pointless for pyu and zealot to say things like "you won't change your mind despite whatever other people say", since in online discussions, that's the practically case all the time, and they are clearly showing that they are not changing their minds despite whatever other people say. I'd say instead of blaming others for "not changing their minds", it'd be more productive to focus on facts shown in the anime. I can see your points about the show becoming convoluted about Uzumi and making him contradictory and sometimes making no sense. That's good argument instead of pyu and zealot's attempts at putting stupid words into others' mouths and pulling the "you won't change your mind" crap and "you think they are all brainwashed puppets" crap. Yeah maybe they are Newtypes that can read other people's minds

For Cagalli, I truly wonder how she got to become the Orb leader... Is she just a figurative head or what? If she has true power over Orb, that's surely something to worry about

[zealot]

Originally Posted by dreamless

oh well, I guess I just think it's pointless for pyu and zealot to say things like "you won't change your mind despite whatever other people say", since in online discussions, that's the practically case all the time, and they are clearly showing that they are not changing their minds despite whatever other people say. I'd say instead of blaming others for "not changing their minds", it'd be more productive to focus on facts shown in the anime. I can see your points about the show becoming convoluted about Uzumi and making him contradictory and sometimes making no sense. That's good argument instead of pyu and zealot's attempts at putting stupid words into others' mouths and pulling the "you won't change your mind" crap and "you think they are all brainwashed puppets" crap. Yeah maybe they are Newtypes that can read other people's minds

For Cagalli, I truly wonder how she got to become the Orb leader... Is she just a figurative head or what? If she has true power over Orb, that's surely something to worry about

U can say all u like but the fact is that u have ur views i have mine. no point in arguing further :fingers:

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by zealot

U can say all u like but the fact is that u have ur views i have mine. no point in arguing further :fingers:

then just say it, instead of playing Newtypes and pulling out pointless craps -_-

and there are people who can have a good discussion with facts and evidences from the anime. If you can't, you can at least stay out of it instead of ruining the good discussion

[Colonel-]

Well, it's understandable that Shinn took out his anger on Cagalli and her family. I remember when he first heard about Cagalli being on board, he didn't really show any expression of hatred or anger but just a surprised look. It wasn't til Cagalli shoving her finger up everyone's noses in the hanger then Shinn began to radiate his hatred on her. Cagalli in Destiny so far isn't that likable....

[Sanjuronord]

@dreamless

1) Well it is possible that he didn't know about it but yes, his stepping down was just for show (imagine they made him out as a very influential advisor). As for the technologies, I believe the blunt of them were Orb anyways. You could argue his actions had the opposite effect as well, in that he squashed (Well technically I guess Zaft squashed it ) an "unofficial" act of support for Earth. That does maintain their neutrality.

2) He did assist Earth so that was a bad move on his part. Though they could certainly argue that the Archangel was unable to escape by their own power after they had crashed into the water, and could make claims of humanitarian aid at that point. (Sketchy at best) But remember they did "rescue" Athrun later in a similar humanitarian role, so Plant isn't really able to raise a ruckus about them helping just one side really. As for Archangel and Strike, doubt they needed to inspect them too much if at all, they built em. Seemed all they wanted was data on Strike's battles and Kira to help with the O/S. Now the data part is beyond argueing but it was a tradeoff I guess. As for Kira writing the O/S, well he is an Orb citizen but he is also "sorta" an Earth soldier. Though for the Earth to really raise a ruckus over that they'd have to admit they had a Coordinator pilot in their ranks, and they would never do that.

3) Can't really defend that too well. After all, deserters is one thing but letting them keep that kind of military force is more akin to "Anti-Earth" Rebels or something. However, the battle at Orb would have happened regardless of whether Archangel had been there or not after the battle at Panama(?). Earth wanted the space catapult thingy, they didn't really seem to care too much about Archangel and it's crew until they saw the Freedom and the potential for an N-Jammer Canceller.

4) He couldn't accept Zaft aid without getting in bed w/ anti-Naturals so that would simply not work. Regardless of who he picked he was signing away half his population. They certainly should have evacuated sooner if possible rather than waiting till the end. Actually killing themselves did accomplish one thing, it essentially "wiped clean" the slate for Orb to give the next generation a fresh start. Uzumi and crew would certainly be a lot more controversial now than a new generation.

As for your thoughts on Orb's political system being the most messed up I'd agree with a conditional. They certainly have the most potential for corruption but it's interesting to see the others were the ones that in fact were the most corrupt. It's the leaders that screw up a country, political system just gives you a timetable and tells you how it'll happen.

Must all the Phase discussions go off topic like this? Now obviously there are still some ramifications of these decisions in the eps; but ~two pages of political discussion about events in another series? Isn't that a bit much?

[pyu]

I suggest we discontinue the political discussion and declare Shinn v.s Cagalli as a non-issue.

Anyway, just watch Phase 5 via Chinese sub -

Spoiler:

So Talia (or Taria, or whatever her name is) is sharing a bed with Gilbert. Er... I can smell trouble from this coming from this fact later...

Terrorists piloting GINNs -> Only showed one of them - seemed he hates Coordinators since he lost his loved ones in the Junius 7 tragedy. They activate some devices and Junius 7's orbit changes.

What remains of the destroyed colony is more than a memorial - it is also a burial ground for those who died there.

Cagalli's tirade, Shinn's response -> Cagalli was acting in an undiplomatic fashion, while Shinn bviously has some issues with ORB's leadership. Kira tries his best to deflect most of Shinn's agression, but obviously Cagalli is taken aback at the hostility that Shinn shows.

Cagalli/Athrun moment -> Nicely done. She cries herself to sleep. Now it shows that there were two beds in the room. Er...

Meeting of important Alliance (Blue Cosmos) people -> Bunch of rich people dressed in old style European suits with coat tails sitting around discussing Junius 7 and its impending fall. They were on an old style, richly appointed European estate. They seem to be aware of the existance of Girty Lue and by extension the successful attempt to steal those Gundams. There was this guy espousing war with the PLANTs again by making use of Junius 7 as a reason, obviously he's the new leader of the Blue Cosmos. Someone just asassinate these bunch of radicals already.

Yzak and Dearka - Yzak's team arrives at Junius 7 with the several devices that had a poorly translated name. "Anti-Asteroid" Device? Someone clarify this? Seems that ZAFT has a contingency plan for Junius 7 in the first place (unsurprising). Yzak got his scar removed. No sign of this Shiho person. Dearka's team is in charge of deploying these devices - and they get ambushed by the bunch of terrorists who started Junius 7 in the first place.

Shinn and Rey, Athrun and Lunarmaria -> The pilots are about to sortie, Shinn's wondering if he was right to say all those hateful things. Rey comments that Shinn wasn't entirely wrong and lets it go at that. Athrun makes his way to the bridge and meets Lunarmaria along the way, Lunarmaria asks after Cagalli and Athrun tells Lunarmaria Cagalli lost her father and friends in the war too, so she understands where Shinn's stance is coming from. Lunarmaria has this thoughtful look on her face.

Girty Lue appears -> Confusion reigns. Neo and his gang seems to be merely under instructions to 'observe' at first. But when they see Dearka's team being attacked by the renegade GINNs, Neo comments that even God seem to be helping him [his side]. He orders the Gundams to sortie - presumably to take advantage of the situation.

Athrun Zala, Go! -> Gilbert gets his way. (Sly fox) Athrun gets his Zaku though while Talia has her doubts, Gilbert uses his authority as PLANT chairman to get his way. Athrun is the last to sortie (after Shinn, Rey and Lunarmaria) - they reused old cels from SEED for his response to launch command.

[angel_wing0]

Originally Posted by pyu

Kira tries his best to deflect most of Shinn's agression,

u mean athrun

[brightman]

Originally Posted by pyu

Spoiler:

Terrorists piloting GINNs -> Only showed one of them - seemed he hates Coordinators since he lost his loved ones in the Junius 7 tragedy. They activate some devices and Junius 7's orbit changes.

Spoiler:

Uh... You mean Naturals, right...?

[wao]

Sanjuronord: A phase discussion thread is not a phase discussion thread if it doesn't go off topic, or at least from what I've observed

Again I moan the lack of cool girls and no Lunamaria doesn't count as a cool girl.... well, at least she's cooler than Lacus in that sense (but I still think Lacus >>>> everyone else because she is teh pwn manipulator! And saw the big picture right from the start.)

But I'll ask again: anybody see the prospect of Shinn/Cagalli ever happening in this series? (Man, Shinn, you da pimp, you got Stellar and Lunamaria and Cagalli and if you're lucky or not lucky you might get Lacus... okay, no.)

I mean, you know the best couple in anime is always the one that argues like mad in the beginning but realises each other's points and come to a compromise and begin to have loving feelings for each other :P Or rather, one of the best... childhood friends seem to be better

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by wao

But I'll ask again: anybody see the prospect of Shinn/Cagalli ever happening in this series? (Man, Shinn, you da pimp, you got Stellar and Lunamaria and Cagalli and if you're lucky or not lucky you might get Lacus... okay, no.)

I mean, you know the best couple in anime is always the one that argues like mad in the beginning but realises each other's points and come to a compromise and begin to have loving feelings for each other :P Or rather, one of the best... childhood friends seem to be better

Hmmm, the OP aside, I don't think anything is going to happen. That wasn't really an argument between the two of them in the mess hall. Most anime arguing couples that comes to mind take awhile to develop and they tend to argue over frivolous things.

Shinn also really isn't a contemporary of Cagalli's. Athrun is still the better bet, simply because he and Cagalli have much more in common in terms of experience and background.

I really wonder if Shinn is the pimp daddy everyone thinks he is...he still hasn't gotten over his family's death, which makes me wonder how he could form intimate bonds with anyone in the condition he's in.

[wao]

Ah, but it's because he can't get over thigns and is so emotionally chaged up, that he can start off relationships :P (I know that made no sense, but that seems to be how stuff works... remember Kira all pissed off and angry and hurt from having to fight and nobody caring for him and then Fllay... yeah...)