[Manga] Sasuke Rant...and yes, its long...

[missing_nin]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Sasuke felt quite comfortable when he felt he was the strongest and most talented amongst the genin. As soon as he saw Naruto's rapid growth, he became insecure. People like that are weak. Why couldn't he just work with Naruto to grow? Why not train with those around you to grow in strength, instead of hate them for getting better? That's an asshole move that not really related to his family's death, but more so related to his need to feel more powerful than everyone he sees as his peer. People like that would actually hold back their "friends" to remain ahead of them.

To be fair, this behavior was probably created by Itachi in him. The difference is, he could train harder like Naruto (who was called a loser so much, he probably started to believe it), but he took what he thought was a shortcut.

the reason sasuke felt comfortable wasnt bc he was the strongest and most talented, but bc he felt he was growing fast. Thats why he was asking himself what ''he had been doing all the time'' when he saw narutos rapid growth.

Spoiler:

After that he made a decision to go to oro, knowing that oro could take his body, he went looking for power himself, those are not signs of insecurity.
apart from that sasuke never hated naruto, he never acknowledged him, thats why he didnt take pride when he beat naruto cuz the only thing on his mind is itachi not his friends

[nh1]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Sasuke felt quite comfortable when he felt he was the strongest and most talented amongst the genin. As soon as he saw Naruto's rapid growth, he became insecure. People like that are weak. Why couldn't he just work with Naruto to grow? Why not train with those around you to grow in strength, instead of hate them for getting better? That's an asshole move that not really related to his family's death, but more so related to his need to feel more powerful than everyone he sees as his peer. People like that would actually hold back their "friends" to remain ahead of them.

To be fair, this behavior was probably created by Itachi in him. The difference is, he could train harder like Naruto (who was called a loser so much, he probably started to believe it), but he took what he thought was a shortcut.

Here's a good point. I especially liked the part about him becoming insecure. What has Naruto's growth got to do with Sasuke's goal, killing Itachi, anyway? Sasuke wants to become stronger than Itachi, but at the same time he doesn't want that for anyone else.

Originally Posted by missing nin

Spoiler:

apart from that sasuke never hated naruto, he never acknowledged him, thats why he didnt take pride when he beat naruto cuz the only thing on his mind is itachi not his friends

Spoiler:

Oh, but he always compared himself to the other genins. When he met Gaara "He's strong, maybe I can fight him", Neji "He's strong, maybe I can fight him" and Lee "He's strong, maybe I can fight him (but maybe there's some trick behind those freaky eyebrows!)"

[Tron Bonne]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Sasuke felt quite comfortable when he felt he was the strongest and most talented amongst the genin. As soon as he saw Naruto's rapid growth, he became insecure. People like that are weak. Why couldn't he just work with Naruto to grow? Why not train with those around you to grow in strength, instead of hate them for getting better? That's an asshole move that not really related to his family's death, but more so related to his need to feel more powerful than everyone he sees as his peer. People like that would actually hold back their "friends" to remain ahead of them.

To be fair, this behavior was probably created by Itachi in him. The difference is, he could train harder like Naruto (who was called a loser so much, he probably started to believe it), but he took what he thought was a shortcut.

You don't read Naruto do you? First, Sasuke doesn't hate anyone for becoming stronger, he's hates himself for being weak. Sasuke never hated Naruto, he trusted Naruto to beat Gaara when he couldn't, he then defended Naruto's strengh to Sakura when she wouldn't believe Naruto had saved her and not him. Sasuke hates himself, his weakness, he sees himself not growing while Naruto is becoming this ninja god.

[ninja massacre]

In my eyes sasuke is a great anime character! VERY great!
and there seems to be lots of fucked up nerds in this forum Because you see him like he would be a real person, like an old pal of yours..(for example)
Get a life! He's an anime character and we are not supposed to see him as a friend or someone we hate.
I just see him as a character. I don't care if he's evil or good because his personality just might reflect someone elses life.
He entertains me, and that's what an anime character should do. And also you who "hate him" should be happy the guy exists so you can learn from his mistakes.

Stop! I mean stop saying that sasuke should get over his past. Think if this happend to you...would you get over it? Maybe your pathetic answers will be yes but I say that I wouldn't get over it. I would probably not sleep until I killed the bastard who did it, become an asshole to all of my friends, hurt people and end up in jail if I did not succeed in my goal and plan B would be a bullet through my head.
OFCORSE we can not accept theese people who hurt others because they feel like shit. They need help and be locked in so the same life of shit won't happen to anyone else.

It's really hard to look at the big picture but it's just ridicolous to say you hate him.
I mean so many people here are "gaara lovers & sasuke haters" and hate sasuke because of his betrayal..what's up with that?

the way many of you sound when you say you hate sasuke I think that maybe you would like to see an anime with all of your friends in it doing good things and never something bad. Would that be entertaining? NO.

and one thing I would like to add is that sasuke has got the cursed seal which doesn't really lighten his situation.

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Sasuke felt quite comfortable when he felt he was the strongest and most talented amongst the genin. As soon as he saw Naruto's rapid growth, he became insecure. People like that are weak.

How can you say that he's weak so easily?
OK, I agree with you to some part like for example people who feel uncomfortabel because their classmate got a higher grade in math or something is quite weak yes. But sasuke lives for strength. He said that's the only reason he's alive, To be strong. So when he feels weak it's the same thing like he is dieing.
I guess you wouldn't care if you were about to die?

I agree totally with the guy who started this thread.

A good thread by the way!

[Genei Killua]

Sasuke didn't become insecure solely because he saw great growth and development in Naruto, but also because his brother totally owned him in the hotel, and mindf*cked him by making him relive the events of the most horrific day in his life over and over again. That day was, by the way, also the time in Sasuke's life where he felt the very weakest and unable to save those he loved. Itachi therefore was basically telling him, "This is where you are still at." The horror unparalleled by anything in the real world of the mangekyou was able to probably cement some psychotic connections between Sasuke's present, future, and past, thus causing Sasuke to comment that

Spoiler:

His dreams are only in the past.

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

You don't read Naruto do you? First, Sasuke doesn't hate anyone for becoming stronger, he's hates himself for being weak. Sasuke never hated Naruto, he trusted Naruto to beat Gaara when he couldn't, he then defended Naruto's strengh to Sakura when she wouldn't believe Naruto had saved her and not him. Sasuke hates himself, his weakness, he sees himself not growing while Naruto is becoming this ninja god.

He clearly resents Naruto because of he feels he's becoming weaker. He didn't resent Naruto until he felt Naruto was stronger. As soon as Naruto's strength became apparent, he turned on Naruto, not on himself. At no point did he start training, he just wanted to fight Naruto to prove his superiority. It wasn't a test of his own strength, it was jealousy.

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Genei Killua

Sasuke didn't become insecure solely because he saw great growth and development in Naruto, but also because his brother totally owned him in the hotel, and mindf*cked him by making him relieve the events of the most horrific day in his life over and over again. That day was, by the way, also the time in Sasuke's life where he felt the very weakest and unable to save those he loved.

If you feel you need to be stronger, you don't attack your friends. That doesn't make sense unless you're have some anger towards them. Sasuke resents Naruto's growth, that's why he wants to hurt Naruto. If he was a real friend, he'd ask to train more often and harder so he can improve. Hell, he train against Naruto and they both can improve each other. Instead of that, he wants to hurt Naruto. That's called jealousy. A jealous person is a weak person. Not physically, but mentally.

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

If you feel you need to be stronger, you don't attack your friends. That doesn't make sense unless you're have some anger towards them. Sasuke resents Naruto's growth, that's why he wants to hurt Naruto. If he was a real friend, he'd ask to train more often and harder so he can improve. Hell, he train against Naruto and they both can improve each other. Instead of that, he wants to hurt Naruto. That's called jealousy. A jealous person is a weak person. Not physically, but mentally.

He wants to hurt Naruto? What are you smoking? Naruto was more than willing to accept, so he wants to hurt Sasuke as well? Gai wants to fight Kakashi, so he wants to hurt him? By the way, Naruto was the one who unleashed the deadly move (Rasengan) first. Apart from that, he DID train, even though you probably didn't notice. After the Gaara fight he asks himself "How can I grow that kind of power?" ... and trains. However, he feels it's useless. No matter how much he trains, Naruto is still growing alot faster than him. In the fight on the rooftop he wanted to prove to himself he is still strong, strong enough to be able to defeat Itachi in the future, strong enough to have a reason to exist. He didn't want to hurt Naruto, he wanted to prove he is the stronger one of the two of them. Just like Naruto.

That's what I hate about Naruto-fans and Sasuke-haters, they tend to critize Sasuke for things Naruto does as well. For example, you cannot say "I hate Sasuke for his arrogance, but I like Naruto." as it doesn't make any sense, as Naruto is easily one of the most arrogant characters in the show.

[Genei Killua]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

If you feel you need to be stronger, you don't attack your friends. That doesn't make sense unless you're have some anger towards them. Sasuke resents Naruto's growth, that's why he wants to hurt Naruto. If he was a real friend, he'd ask to train more often and harder so he can improve. Hell, he train against Naruto and they both can improve each other. Instead of that, he wants to hurt Naruto. That's called jealousy. A jealous person is a weak person. Not physically, but mentally.

Sasuke is jealous of Naruto, but he's also insecure about himself. Does that make him weak? Perhaps--but it all depends on how you understand the word 'weak'.

Sasuke is very mentally 'weak' at this point because he has some severe disturbances, and in the real world, he would be hospitalized. In fact, most people with murderous notions of revenge would be hospitalized, or locked up. But, because Sasuke lives in a ninja world where revenge and murder are not only commonplace, but taught to ninjas at the ripe age of 5 and 6, it is only inevitable that someone such as Sasuke would be able to lash out at those closest around him. Does that make him weak? Perhaps. Does that make him partially a product of his upbringing by not only Itachi but also the ninja culture? Probably.

I think when you're talking about the morality or moral fiber of a character, you need to put things in perspective. Sasuke is a young boy of age 12-13 who has severe mental problems due to his brother massacreing his entire family. Moreover, his brother has not been brought to justice by the powers that be, and Sasuke has probably not witnessed much attempt by them to do so. He has been taught from a young age the methods of murder and execution, and has fostered with no otherwise guidance a life of revenge. when you combine all of the twisted elements of Sasuke's life, it is no real surprise he is doing what he is doing. Does that make his betrayal any less wrong? No. Does it make Sasuke's right? No. Can we sympathize somewhat with him, though, and believe he deserved and deserves a large amount of psychiatric help which a military system was just not going to give him? Yes.

[CyberPunk]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

I don't know if this is a spoiler because its so blatanly obvious but contrary to what I keep hearing here is whats not going to happen.

1.Sasuke might become a bad guy but not for to long, he will come back to the side of good by the end of the arc.

2. Sasuke is not going to kill Orochimaru in 3 years.

3. Sasuke is going to return to the leaf someday.

4. Sasuke is not going to die.

5. Sasuke is not going to kill anybody good that he used to be friends with.

all blatantly obvious? why not throw some facts in there, kishimoto? oh wait, you're not the writer of this series. how can any of the future events in this story, things we know nothing about, be blatantly obvious? just to spite you, i hope you're wrong on all accounts.

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

I don't know if this is a spoiler because its so blatanly obvious but contrary to what I keep hearing here is whats not going to happen.

1.Sasuke might become a bad guy but not for to long, he will come back to the side of good by the end of the arc.

2. Sasuke is not going to kill Orochimaru in 3 years.

3. Sasuke is going to return to the leaf someday.

4. Sasuke is not going to die.

5. Sasuke is not going to kill anybody good that he used to be friends with.

Just as obvious as this one?

Spoiler for Danger, Manga Spoiler!:

[You have been warned!]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Yep no time jump. Its not like Akatsuki is going to wait years to apprehend Naruto when they've decided to get him now. Itachi is just taking a break. I don't forsee a time jump for a LOOONG while if at all. Although Naruto must grow up sometime if he wants to be Hokage.

You shouldn't call things obvious when you already were wrong at one time. I don't think it is obvious at all if Kishimoto wants to use Sasuke as a bad guy, or as a good guy in the future.

[/Spoiler]

[nh1]

Originally Posted by Anthriel

You shouldn't call things obvious when you already were wrong at one time.

Spoiler:

Although I can't say I agree with ShurikenJay on the many points about Sasuke, is it going to be a timeskip? Because I don't really see it.

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Anthriel

He wants to hurt Naruto? What are you smoking? Naruto was more than willing to accept, so he wants to hurt Sasuke as well? Gai wants to fight Kakashi, so he wants to hurt him? By the way, Naruto was the one who unleashed the deadly move (Rasengan) first. Apart from that, he DID train, even though you probably didn't notice. After the Gaara fight he asks himself "How can I grow that kind of power?" ... and trains. However, he feels it's useless. No matter how much he trains, Naruto is still growing alot faster than him. In the fight on the rooftop he wanted to prove to himself he is still strong, strong enough to be able to defeat Itachi in the future, strong enough to have a reason to exist. He didn't want to hurt Naruto, he wanted to prove he is the stronger one of the two of them. Just like Naruto.

Naruto's idea of fighting (more akin to sparring) wasn't what Sasuke was trying to do. If Sasuke was just trying to spar with Naruto, why would he be angry at seeing Naruto's power? That shouldn't make him upset, but proud that his good friend is progressing faster than he imagined. It should also spark the desire to become stronger just like it has with many of the other genin.

Gai and Kakashi spar. They are not trying to kill each other. Gai doesn't become angry if he sees Kakashi do something that he admires, he actually cheers him. That's a healthy reaction. That's not how Sasuke has been reacting.

That's what I hate about Naruto-fans and Sasuke-haters, they tend to critize Sasuke for things Naruto does as well. For example, you cannot say "I hate Sasuke for his arrogance, but I like Naruto." as it doesn't make any sense, as Naruto is easily one of the most arrogant characters in the show.

You're confusing confidence with arrogance. Naruto is confident in himself. He feels that he can beat anyone if he tries hard enough. Sasuke is arrogant because he feels he is superior to everyone else. Naruto doesn't see himself as superior at all.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Anthriel

Just as obvious as this one?

You shouldn't call things obvious when you already were wrong at one time. I don't think it is obvious at all if Kishimoto wants to use Sasuke as a bad guy, or as a good guy in the future.

Thank you for this...point. Now go back through my old posts and dig up all my predictions that have been right.

Originally Posted by CyberPunk

all blatantly obvious? why not throw some facts in there, kishimoto? oh wait, you're not the writer of this series. how can any of the future events in this story, things we know nothing about, be blatantly obvious? just to spite you, i hope you're wrong on all accounts.

Thats because they're predicions not facts. I just think all this Sasuke hating is getting out of hand. He hasn't done anything that bad yet and if you are going to critisize me for making predictions you should critisize everyone else who is doing the same. So many people act like they're angry because they think Sasuke is turning into this or that, or he's going to kill Oro or he's going to runaway. I didn't say it WAS going to happen or that I'm so arrogant I know better than Kishimoto I just think he's going one way with this and not the other. Geez....you people need to come down.

[Dynast Grauscherra]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Naruto's idea of fighting (more akin to sparring) wasn't what Sasuke was trying to do. If Sasuke was just trying to spar with Naruto, why would he be angry at seeing Naruto's power? That shouldn't make him upset, but proud that his good friend is progressing faster than he imagined. It should also spark the desire to become stronger just like it has with many of the other genin.

Gai and Kakashi spar. They are not trying to kill each other. Gai doesn't become angry if he sees Kakashi do something that he admires, he actually cheers him. That's a healthy reaction. That's not how Sasuke has been reacting.

If Naruto only wanted to spar, why did he use Rasengan? He saw what it did to Kabuto, if he didn't want to hurt Sasuke then why use it all?

And Sasuke didn't just get pissed after seeing Naruto's strength. When he learned that Itachi was after Naruto (which was after the Gaara fight), his first thoughts were to save his friend. He was thinking "I have to find Naruto", not "I have to find Itachi" or "I can finally get my revenge". When he saw them is when he lost it.

You're confusing confidence with arrogance. Naruto is confident in himself. He feels that he can beat anyone if he tries hard enough. Sasuke is arrogant because he feels he is superior to everyone else. Naruto doesn't see himself as superior at all.

Naruto was arrogant enough to think he could beat Tsunade (chosen as the next Hokage and one of the Legendary Sannin). He was arrogant enough to announce at the beginning of the Chuunin exam that he was going to beat everyone. Not to mention the little exchange of arrogance at the beginning of his fight with Kiba.

[Anthriel]

Spoiler for The same spoiler as the one above:

Spoiler for Manga:

Although I can't say I agree with ShurikenJay on the many points about Sasuke, is it going to be a timeskip? Because I don't really see it.

Crap, I confused the thread. Forget what I said. Oh, and delete the quote if you don't mind. ^^;

Thank you for this...point. Now go back through my old posts and dig up all my predictions that have been right.

I don't mind your predictions as long as you call them predictions. But you were stating them as a fact.

I don't know if this is a spoiler because its so blatanly obvious but contrary to what I keep hearing here is whats not going to happen.

Naruto's idea of fighting (more akin to sparring) wasn't what Sasuke was trying to do. If Sasuke was just trying to spar with Naruto, why would he be angry at seeing Naruto's power? That shouldn't make him upset, but proud that his good friend is progressing faster than he imagined. It should also spark the desire to become stronger just like it has with many of the other genin.

Both of them tried to prove they were stronger than the other one. And both of them resorted to the same kind of attacks, deadly attacks and both of them were aware of that.
Sasuke is unhappy about Naruto's growth because Naruto is his rival, his measure. Sasuke perceives himself as strong as long as he is stronger than Naruto, if Naruto passes him, he feels weak. He is not angry at Naruto for that, he is angry at himself. "What have I been doing so far?"
He doesn't wish for Naruto to be weaker than himself, he wishes for himself to be stronger than Naruto. That's an important difference.

You're confusing confidence with arrogance. Naruto is confident in himself. He feels that he can beat anyone if he tries hard enough. Sasuke is arrogant because he feels he is superior to everyone else. Naruto doesn't see himself as superior at all.

Thank you very much. That's exactly what I meant. ^^
Let's see ... the one who calls himself the greatest ninja in existance, the one who is angry about being in the same group as the best one in his class ("Iruka-sensei! Why am I, the great Naruto in the same team as this loser Sasuke?"), the one who always exclaims he will kick his opponents ass and not lose to anyone is just confident, but the quiet boy with inferiority complexes is the arrogant bastard. What an unbiased opinion.
In fact, Sasuke doesn't think he is superior to everyone else at all. If he would, he wouldn't have to prove that to himself all the time. He wouldn't feel weak compared to Naruto. He wouldn't seek out strong opponents. He would seek out Itachi instead.
When they fought Orochimaru, Sasuke knew there was no way they could beat him, he somehow tried to save them all from certain death, whereas Naruto simply assumed he was able to beat Oro.
Hell, I don't think there is any character who is more aware of the fact there are stronger people than him than Sasuke. And I don't think there is any character who is less aware of that than Naruto.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Yeah I phrased that wrong. Those are my predictions of what I'm sure will not happen.

[Lee-pimp]

i want to say that although i hate sasuke, and ive hated him since i first started watching/reading naruto hell im the vp of ASS for gods sake. i have to say, the argument for sasuke has been very well thought out and people have put a lot of effort into defending him, of course i still disagree because frankly his past can be compared to kakashi's or naruto's, hell even neji's, actually mostly neji's i havent seen people say this but neji always thought that his dad was killed by his uncle and yet he still had to protect said uncle. in that way it was worse for neji. think of how he must have felt. so with that said, good job sasuke defenders but i still hate him

Sincererly, lee-pimp, Anti Sasuke Syndicate Vice President

p.s. there was a really long thread just like this a while back, it was called "how can you hate sasuke?"

[Vinac]

Wow, I never expected so many replies to my overly long rant, Im sorta excited =)

Everyone has had good points, and everything I could have said in reply has already been covered so Im not going to bother repeating whats already been said...but Im glad to see Im not completely alone in my belief that Sasuke deserves some understanding.

[Anthriel]

Wow, I never expected so many replies to my overly long rant, Im sorta excited =)

I don't want to get you down, but I think just about every discussion about Sasuke becomes quite heated and long.
No matter how much you hate Sasuke and how much you disagree with me on other points, there is one thing you cannot argue. Sasuke is the character who is discussed the most, therefore he is the most interesting and probably the best designed character in all of Naruto.