Nanoha FanFiction Discussion

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Oh yes, she's "good" . Better than average, that's for sure.

Well, my title is Queen of Angst, so make of that what you will?

[deathcurse]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Oh realistically I'm sure there's some sort of black ops group in the Bureau. But the question is why would Lutecia join them when all she wanted was a quiet life with her mother? To me it seems the idea was "Hm, how do I put Lutecia into a situation where all kinds of bad things will happen to her?" And the idea of ViCia? Feels like RB wanted to pair Lutecia with someone and Vivio just happened to be on hand. Only basis I remember seeing is that apparently Vivio followed Lutecia around with hearts in her eyes since she was 6. To me that just amounts to "because the author says so.''

I just don't 'get' it, I suppose. Sorry for going on about it. Normally I just keep my mouth shut and use that energy to do more Lutecia/Erio.

Hm, if you're just referring to RB's fics, then yes, she didn't put in a ton of background. But Dezo's ""Shadows Fall" (which is part of Shadowverse) does go into it in considerable detail, explaining why Lutecia would have joined up with the Shadows in the first place. RB has opened up her verse to a lot of other writers, and I'm assuming that if someone else has already written an explanation she isn't going to bother doing her own version . A lot of the Shadowverse stories by Dezo, spawn and syn are really good, and I'd encourage people to read them as well to fully understand the Shadowverse and the motivations of the characters.

About the pairing: I'm surprised that "because the author says so" isn't a valid reason for a pairing here . Isn't it the development after the people get together more indicative about a relationship than the crushing and liking before?

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I... guess I am? I don't know. It's not like I don't give them happy endings after I cause them some amount of emotional and/or physical pain. I don't think I'm that bad.

...

Am I?

Your stories do tend to the "painful" side of things...but I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing. You have upbeat stories too, and the overall arc is looking to be positive in the end. Maybe it's the long delay between the "angst" and the "happier parts" that's causing everyone to remember the sad stuff?

Besides, at least they get a happy ending in your stories . As compared to mine .

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I haven't seen any flames, really. Some criticism, but that's to be expected against any fic or series. And perhaps I've seen a few people complain here and there about how this happens every so often, where the shadowverse comes up and then we get 4+ pages talking about the same things over and over, especially in regards to things that are never really written. It does make it hard to want to browse the thread looking for fics, when the fics get buried by pages of the same discussion and jokes.

Just some observational comments based on things I've heard. Take it for what you will.

Isn't it the point of a thread like this to discuss story ideas and such? I think it's always neat to see people discussing ideas from a fic or a series, even if I'm not reading that series myself. I like posting here over places like Fanfiction.net because people discuss ideas and concepts with each other, not just with the author.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Besides, at least they get a happy ending in your stories . As compared to mine .

Queen of Tragedy.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

About the pairing: I'm surprised that "because the author says so" isn't a valid reason for a pairing here . Isn't it the development after the people get together more indicative about a relationship than the crushing and liking before?

Certainly not a valid reason when it's a major part of the story. Say, when I had Yuuno and Fate hook up in my ViCia story. That was only because I said so, but it didn't really matter since that wasn't the focus. Since ViCia is such a huge element of the Shadowverse you can't just handwave it with "They're in love because I said so", especially since at the time Lutecia and Vivio never had any interaction at all. Just sticking two characters together without rhyme or reason is like just putting four walls together and calling it a house. You need a solid foundation or else it won't stand up.

[Tiresias]

Meh, was it up to me Fate and Chrono would've been a couple instead of "siblings" , Hayate looks good with Griffith *blatant doujin shout-out*, and Nanoha will always have Raging Heart

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Besides, at least they get a happy ending in your stories . As compared to mine .

Good, good! Stop denying your true calling!

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Certainly not a valid reason when it's a major part of the story. Say, when I had Yuuno and Fate hook up in my ViCia story. That was only because I said so, but it didn't really matter since that wasn't the focus. Since ViCia is such a huge element of the Shadowverse you can't just handwave it with "They're in love because I said so", especially since at the time Lutecia and Vivio never had any interaction at all. Just sticking two characters together without rhyme or reason is like just putting four walls together and calling it a house. You need a solid foundation or else it won't stand up.

Don't know if it helps or not (or just stinks more of plot contrived coincidence, I do remember you not being very fond of the idea back when I started the 'verse), but the ViCia relationship initially started out as a friendship between the two girls that grew once Lutecia was brought back to Mid-Childa from Mau Gram. Admittedly, I can say that I probably need to develop that aspect a bit more in the background; I only reference it a few times throughout, and with the exception of maybe "Learn the Hard Way" and "Never Been Kissed" don't really show that period where they were friends.

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Certainly not a valid reason when it's a major part of the story. Say, when I had Yuuno and Fate hook up in my ViCia story. That was only because I said so, but it didn't really matter since that wasn't the focus. Since ViCia is such a huge element of the Shadowverse you can't just handwave it with "They're in love because I said so", especially since at the time Lutecia and Vivio never had any interaction at all. Just sticking two characters together without rhyme or reason is like just putting four walls together and calling it a house. You need a solid foundation or else it won't stand up.

Thing is, ViCia has sorta grown into a sensible pairing, Beams has spent so long building it up. She literally took the pairing from the ground up, when they were both children, and built it into making sense in her own AU canon. So yeah, a canon-based Vicia wouldn't make sense, but a Shadowverse one does.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

A lot of the Shadowverse stories by Dezo, spawn and syn are really good, and I'd encourage people to read them as well to fully understand the Shadowverse and the motivations of the characters.

The problem is one that people level against Nanoha itself, with regards to season 1, and the movie. There are things left out of both that would help explain the motivations and help setup the situation better, but they are covered in various other extra materials, which can make it a pain to track down and read.

A story should be self-contained, with all the information you need to understand the who, what, when, where, and why. Sequels can obviously drop some things because the first story set them up... but the shadowverse is an incredibly fragmented canon. You need piece A over here, but you better read piece B first over here, because it better explains piece C way over there.

The lack of cohesion, information, and sequential development is a fairly large hindrance to people picking it up. I have a similar issue on a smaller scale, because I know some people have commented about needing to read Crisis, Red Jewel Diaries, and Recollections of a Lost Age to catch up. As well as any side stories.

About the pairing: I'm surprised that "because the author says so" isn't a valid reason for a pairing here . Isn't it the development after the people get together more indicative about a relationship than the crushing and liking before?

It cuts out development. Maybe "because the author said so" works for some people, but the very act of falling in love and showing (not telling) the "why" of how two people grew closer over time, is a very important story part. Ironically, anime does this part fairly well, across many varied series. Anime tends to lack the "after" part where it shows how they develop once they become a couple, which is where RB's story picks up.

For some people, that initial development is important if we want to care about the characters, and aren't just focused on "when will they have sex." It lacks emotion. RB gets that emotion only in fics like Sunset, where she deliberately focuses on angst for angst-sake.

Isn't it the point of a thread like this to discuss story ideas and such? I think it's always neat to see people discussing ideas from a fic or a series, even if I'm not reading that series myself. I like posting here over places like Fanfiction.net because people discuss ideas and concepts with each other, not just with the author.

That is true, but the vast majority of the posts that concern the shadowverse don't contain much story idea discussion. It's jokes on when Lutecia and Vivio will have sex, and what it will be like. I myself participated in the humor awhile back with one such fic. But now... it just feels like a running gag that has gone on for far too long. It's fine if there are some that still enjoy it; I'm just pointing out that there are a growing number that are getting a bit tired of it.

It almost begins to feel like, as long as the fic isn't written, we can wring endless discussion about it, and perhaps that's why it's not being written. Story discussion is fine, but at some point you have to stop talking and start writing.

I remember someone not too long ago, who was heckled in this thread. They came in with story ideas, and after awhile of talking about them, people got upset that the person was still talking and not actually writing (and they "quit" the thread a few times). Not to say they were in the right, but... does that standard still hold? Or do we hold a double standard for other people?

Perhaps the shadowverse might be better served by its own forum, where all the talking can be centralized and split by topic, and the accompanying flow charts and venn diagrams can be created to show how all the fics and stories relate to each other.

Partly I'm jesting. But as I said, I'm just expressing a viewpoint that I've noticed growing, and is behind some of the criticisms that you may seem to see leveled against RB and the shadowverse.

[deathcurse]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Queen of Tragedy.

That's my name!

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Certainly not a valid reason when it's a major part of the story. Say, when I had Yuuno and Fate hook up in my ViCia story. That was only because I said so, but it didn't really matter since that wasn't the focus. Since ViCia is such a huge element of the Shadowverse you can't just handwave it with "They're in love because I said so", especially since at the time Lutecia and Vivio never had any interaction at all. Just sticking two characters together without rhyme or reason is like just putting four walls together and calling it a house. You need a solid foundation or else it won't stand up.

Point. I recall reading some short stories by RB that talk about the early stages of their starting to like each other, etc., but maybe I'm wrong .

I just find it weird that there has to be an explanation behind simply liking someone . Oh, I'm sure if everyone digs deeply they can come up with words and all, but I've always considered liking friends or liking potential partners as nebulous things that just grow out of interaction and attraction. Or maybe I'm too romantic in nature or something .

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Good, good! Stop denying your true calling!

LOL, one day as a challenge I should just roll out a series of shorts giving every single character as depressing of an ending as I can contrive ....

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Don't know if it helps or not (or just stinks more of plot contrived coincidence, I do remember you not being very fond of the idea back when I started the 'verse), but the ViCia relationship initially started out as a friendship between the two girls that grew once Lutecia was brought back to Mid-Childa from Mau Gram. Admittedly, I can say that I probably need to develop that aspect a bit more in the background; I only reference it a few times throughout, and with the exception of maybe "Learn the Hard Way" and "Never Been Kissed" don't really show that period where they were friends.

Ah, that might be why I'm confused--Vivio and Lutecia were already friends in your first stories, and I guess I assumed that they must have liked each other enough to be friends for something . But seeing more of their childhood friend-moments would be really neat and I'm certainly not going to discourage you!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

The problem is one that people level against Nanoha itself, with regards to season 1, and the movie. There are things left out of both that would help explain the motivations and help setup the situation better, but they are covered in various other extra materials, which can make it a pain to track down and read.

Ah, I guess I'm a bad fan . I don't mind that there are holes in Nanoha's character, since she clearly has these motivations and I'm intrigued at how I get to wonder and consider why she may be that way myself. So it may be just how I roll .

Originally Posted by Kaijo

A story should be self-contained, with all the information you need to understand the who, what, when, where, and why. Sequels can obviously drop some things because the first story set them up... but the shadowverse is an incredibly fragmented canon. You need piece A over here, but you better read piece B first over here, because it better explains piece C way over there.

The lack of cohesion, information, and sequential development is a fairly large hindrance to people picking it up. I have a similar issue on a smaller scale, because I know some people have commented about needing to read Crisis, Red Jewel Diaries, and Recollections of a Lost Age to catch up. As well as any side stories.

That's a good point. It's a problem I've hit with the Hayate x Vivio stories too, since they build on top of each other and all tell just pieces in their lives. But at the same time, I see it as a new medium of storytelling--while conventional publishing may prefer self-contained stories (and note, nowadays not all of them do anymore), I find that online writing and fandoms allow for collaborative or episodic stories that have their own interesting points and merits. It's true that Shadowverse is hard to pick up (and indeed, as I was trying to write a concise summary as an introduction for Crime Never Sleeps I hit the problem that it's so hard to define or introduce to people!) for that very reason, but I don't see it necessarily as a detriment to the stories themselves.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

It cuts out development. Maybe "because the author said so" works for some people, but the very act of falling in love and showing (not telling) the "why" of how two people grew closer over time, is a very important story part. Ironically, anime does this part fairly well, across many varied series. Anime tends to lack the "after" part where it shows how they develop once they become a couple, which is where RB's story picks up.

For some people, that initial development is important if we want to care about the characters, and aren't just focused on "when will they have sex." It lacks emotion. RB gets that emotion only in fics like Sunset, where she deliberately focuses on angst for angst-sake.

Ah, I'm starting to see that most of my opinions about pairings and canon are personal preferences . I like the build-up like any other person, but I absolutely hate how anime ends with the "they got together" part and doesn't go into the "after" part. Maybe a lot of Shadowverse fans feel the same way and like how RB picks up after they become a couple?

Originally Posted by Kaijo

That is true, but the vast majority of the posts that concern the shadowverse don't contain much story idea discussion. It's jokes on when Lutecia and Vivio will have sex, and what it will be like. I myself participated in the humor awhile back with one such fic. But now... it just feels like a running gag that has gone on for far too long. It's fine if there are some that still enjoy it; I'm just pointing out that there are a growing number that are getting a bit tired of it.

It almost begins to feel like, as long as the fic isn't written, we can wring endless discussion about it, and perhaps that's why it's not being written. Story discussion is fine, but at some point you have to stop talking and start writing.

Maybe I'm reading the posts differently , but more recently I find a lot of the side conversations are about stylistic choices rather than story ideas.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I remember someone not too long ago, who was heckled in this thread. They came in with story ideas, and after awhile of talking about them, people got upset that the person was still talking and not actually writing (and they "quit" the thread a few times). Not to say they were in the right, but... does that standard still hold? Or do we hold a double standard for other people?

Perhaps the shadowverse might be better served by its own forum, where all the talking can be centralized and split by topic, and the accompanying flow charts and venn diagrams can be created to show how all the fics and stories relate to each other.

Partly I'm jesting. But as I said, I'm just expressing a viewpoint that I've noticed growing, and is behind some of the criticisms that you may seem to see leveled against RB and the shadowverse.

I wasn't part of that initial discussion, so I can't really comment .

Good to hear your viewpoint though, thanks .

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

Ah, that might be why I'm confused--Vivio and Lutecia were already friends in your first stories, and I guess I assumed that they must have liked each other enough to be friends for something . But seeing more of their childhood friend-moments would be really neat and I'm certainly not going to discourage you!

I've got a couple ideas for delving into that period. I do willingly admit, it's something that is lacking in Shadowverse, and it's something that should be developed more. I've just been more concerned with the main arc and the moving parts to really move back into the "past" where Vivio and Lutecia were just friends.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

The problem is one that people level against Nanoha itself, with regards to season 1, and the movie. There are things left out of both that would help explain the motivations and help setup the situation better, but they are covered in various other extra materials, which can make it a pain to track down and read.

A story should be self-contained, with all the information you need to understand the who, what, when, where, and why. Sequels can obviously drop some things because the first story set them up... but the shadowverse is an incredibly fragmented canon. You need piece A over here, but you better read piece B first over here, because it better explains piece C way over there.

The lack of cohesion, information, and sequential development is a fairly large hindrance to people picking it up.

This I have to agree. I frequently wonder whether I've read all the related fics, and sometimes whether the one I just read was actually part of the verse. And I have troubles regarding the chronology, too. All in all it limits me in enjoying only small parts of the story and prevents me from seeing the bigger picture.

Posting the entire list here IMHO won't help much, since sooner or later it would be drowned by other, newer posts.

Originally Posted by deathcurse

LOL, one day as a challenge I should just roll out a series of shorts giving every single character as depressing of an ending as I can contrive ....

Don't make promises you can't keep

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by deathcurse

I just find it weird that there has to be an explanation behind simply liking someone . Oh, I'm sure if everyone digs deeply they can come up with words and all, but I've always considered liking friends or liking potential partners as nebulous things that just grow out of interaction and attraction. Or maybe I'm too romantic in nature or something .

Wanted to answer this thought, to expand upon the idea.

Think of an anime like Ranma 1/2. If you've read the manga, you can see that Ranma and Akane weren't fond of each other at the start. That gradually changed, with each small moment and story point. You can see the "why" forming gradually, as it's shown to you, not told. Show, don't tell. Despite not ever saying "I Love You" we all can see that the two do love each other. Well, Ranma does at the end, but it doesn't take us by surprise because we saw how it built up to that, and why Akane became so important to him. Despite not ever kissing, we know they have strong feelings for each other by the end.

And even if you don't like the Ranma 1/2 example, I can pull up many more. Or you can suggest an anime or manga that features a couple, and if you look at it, you'll generally see that the romance was built up to it. That's a very important part of how a couple gets together and why.

"It just happens" is nice from a purely romantic sense, but it's not realistic. If you're writing a fairy tale, then sure, go for it. But without the build up, it lacks realism, and thus believable substance.

Fairy tales are fine.... if that's what you want to write. Harlequin romance novels sell well, after all. So did Twilight, where Bella and Edward love each other... just because they do. The author never really builds them up, shows them having any mutual interests, or explains why, which why the whole relationship feels a bit shallow and unrealistic. And yet Twilight has it's fans, too.

Not saying RB's work is in anyway as bad as Twilight(and I'm sure I'll get angry people coming down on me for that anyway, heh). Just pointing out the importance of showing the reasons why characters fall in love in order to flesh them out. Especially when the romance is a large part of your fic.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I've got a couple ideas for delving into that period. I do willingly admit, it's something that is lacking in Shadowverse, and it's something that should be developed more. I've just been more concerned with the main arc and the moving parts to really move back into the "past" where Vivio and Lutecia were just friends.

Take this as constructive criticisim, but... you have this tendency to want to skip ahead to the "good stuff." But it's like skipping dinner(or only having a few bites) to get to desert. It feels good, but it ultimately leaves you lacking.

The other problem is that I can see how you plan to deal with this: write another fic, or add it as another story or two in your Shadowfire group... where it will promptly get buried by other fics. It will simply add to the problem Tiresias pointed out above: where does one start? No matter where one starts, there will be pieces of the story missing, so one will need to scavenge around, and hope they aren't reading something out of order. And no matter what story is read, there will be parts that won't be understood, because those parts are somewhere else.

Unfortunately, I don't have much of a good idea of how to fix this, short of completely rewriting, merging parts of shadowfire into the rewritten fics and starting from the ground up.

[00-Raiser]

Just adding to Kaijo, I think having it a homosexual relationship requires even more development. Most people are straight so you also have the convince the reader that the characters are in fact homosexual. Otherwise what could possible push them over the 'just friends' line? We all have close friends, I'm sure. Could you ever see yourself fall in love with them? What would it take for you to do so?

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

The problem is one that people level against Nanoha itself, with regards to season 1, and the movie. There are things left out of both that would help explain the motivations and help setup the situation better, but they are covered in various other extra materials, which can make it a pain to track down and read.

A story should be self-contained, with all the information you need to understand the who, what, when, where, and why. Sequels can obviously drop some things because the first story set them up... but the shadowverse is an incredibly fragmented canon. You need piece A over here, but you better read piece B first over here, because it better explains piece C way over there.

The lack of cohesion, information, and sequential development is a fairly large hindrance to people picking it up. I have a similar issue on a smaller scale, because I know some people have commented about needing to read Crisis, Red Jewel Diaries, and Recollections of a Lost Age to catch up. As well as any side stories.

Sounds more like the trope "Continuity Lock-Out"; it's hard to pick up, say, "Long Distance Goodbye" because it's what amounts to the latest episode of an ongoing series. It's no different, say, than if someone joined the FFT when you were posting Future Tense and trying to start at Chapter 25. It just doesn't work; you'd have to go back and read the story from the beginning. And the fact that there's an archived collection of Shadowverse stories doesn't actually help because fanfiction.net doesn't allow it to be collected in order. What the series really needs more than anything is a &^@%&!** sequential index to the entire 'Verse, in chronological story order, with links, so someone wanting to jump aboard would be able to do so.

It cuts out development. Maybe "because the author said so" works for some people, but the very act of falling in love and showing (not telling) the "why" of how two people grew closer over time, is a very important story part. Ironically, anime does this part fairly well, across many varied series. Anime tends to lack the "after" part where it shows how they develop once they become a couple, which is where RB's story picks up.

(Actually, she has done several stories about their pre-couple development, and more than several about their dating years, but yes, many fewer than have been done about the "afterwards" period. Truthfully, though, I'd suggest that the actual falling in love part as opposed to the infatuation/attraction part of the sequence doesn't begin until "Shadow.")

I have a bad habit myself, when it comes to pairings, of wanting to hear about their "together as a couple" years because no canon source ever bothers to mention that; either the series ends when they get together, they're shuffled into the supporting cast, or meaningless drama is introduced to stress the relationship and break them up because writers have no idea how to handle a stable couple on-screen.

The irony here is that in canon Vivio and Lutecia are study pals who bond over ancient Belkan books. And when you get right down to in, in MGLN, it's not like any pairing gets some titanic surge of canon support that explains why it exists. Attraction--in and of itself--merely is, the significant point is whether that attraction develops into something more or we merely shrug and move on.

It almost begins to feel like, as long as the fic isn't written, we can wring endless discussion about it, and perhaps that's why it's not being written. Story discussion is fine, but at some point you have to stop talking and start writing.

I remember someone not too long ago, who was heckled in this thread. They came in with story ideas, and after awhile of talking about them, people got upset that the person was still talking and not actually writing (and they "quit" the thread a few times). Not to say they were in the right, but... does that standard still hold? Or do we hold a double standard for other people?

Perhaps the shadowverse might be better served by its own forum, where all the talking can be centralized and split by topic, and the accompanying flow charts and venn diagrams can be created to show how all the fics and stories relate to each other.

Partly I'm jesting. But as I said, I'm just expressing a viewpoint that I've noticed growing, and is behind some of the criticisms that you may seem to see leveled against RB and the shadowverse.

Except that...the 'Verse is constantly having stories added to it (indeed, that's part of the problem you seem to be having in the first paragraph). So is it, you're missing out on RB's "main sequence" stories specifically?

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Just adding to Kaijo, I think having it a homosexual relationship requires even more development. Most people are straight so you also have the convince the reader that the characters are in fact homosexual. Otherwise what could possible push them over the 'just friends' line? We all have close friends, I'm sure. Could you ever see yourself fall in love with them? What would it take for you to do so?

... ... ... I'm sure this has been pointed out to you before, but you do realize that convincing members of the Nanoha fandom that two women are homosexual is about as hard as writing a story with two women in it? Heterosexual relationships are most decidedly not the majority in fanfics for this series and they never, ever will be.

[Rising Dragon]

The only real complaint I can make about this Shadowsverse business is that with all the talk about it right now, it's really difficult to post about something else. I mean... did anyone notice the first time I posted my notification about putting chapter 2 of The Collared on FF.net?

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Moczo

... ... ... I'm sure this has been pointed out to you before, but you do realize that convincing members of the Nanoha fandom that two women are homosexual is about as hard as writing a story with two women in it? Heterosexual relationships are most decidedly not the majority in fanfics for this series and they never, ever will be.

Which, considering that the half the actual series canon's raison d'etre is yuri ship-tease...yeah. More to the point, how do you "convince" someone that a person is gay or bisexual? The transition from "I know this person" to "infatuation" or to "friend" and from whichever intermediate stage applies to "love" is something that, as Kaijo validly points out, requires some measure of development (actually, the reason most romance novels go via the infatuation road is that it's easy: they look across the room and it happens. Bad romance writing confuses infatuation with love, but that's a different rant). But a character doesn't "develop into" gay, they either are gay or they aren't, as a threshold question unless you want to write a story about that character's self-discovery.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

did anyone notice the first time I posted my notification about putting chapter 2 of The Collared on FF.net?

Yes. (haven't commented on it yet. Still pondering whether I should combo with the nect chapter)

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

The only real complaint I can make about this Shadowsverse business is that with all the talk about it right now, it's really difficult to post about something else. I mean... did anyone notice the first time I posted my notification about putting chapter 2 of The Collared on FF.net?

I did...and promptly set it aside because at the time, I hadn't reviewed Chapter 1 yet (mind you, you've read my Chapter 1 review now, so at least you know why I delay on these things...).

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Yes. (haven't commented on it yet. Still pondering whether I should combo with the nect chapter)

Might as well review now, I have no idea when chapter 3 will be up but it probably won't be any time soon.

@Dezo: I figured I'd ask to make my point, because I know for a fact RB didn't see it. =X