(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[MeoTwister5]

Too bad I can't read Russian!

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Too bad I can't read Russian!

I CAN read Japanese though (and indeed, like in the show, there's Japanese subbed under the Russian).

Fam: Wait! Thank you!
Dian: What's with this girl? I can't understand what she's saying... Scary.
Dian: ... Don't tell me?!
Dian's imagination: I LOVE YOU!
Note in Box: Not true.
Dian: *kisses*
Milia: Oh no!
Giselle: Fam?!

EDIT: Added in entry with the comic.

[tsunade666]

wow the episode 13 was really a war and the next episode will be battle between exile. They are not holding back on the weapon.

[Vena]

Heh, that was a late reply. I'll keep my reply within tags as well for the sake of size and keeping the thread clean.

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

Spoiler for my answer:

I agree in the sense that she has room for improvement but still don't really think I agree with this, though I do agree that there is something they could do elevate Fam's character to the next level, the second half would be the perfect time to see Fam have to face the darker side of war in person like maybe having to kill an enemy in person or if they use her seeing the ruined Kartoffel well to add a little more weight to her determination/mood like Claus did and when he entered armed vanship combat for the first time (which ofcouse wasn't the same for Fam since she's been flying while getting shot at for most of her piloting career as a pirate, but if she actually had to kill an enemy herself we might get that kind of drama for a bit), so I can understand the view that perhaps they still need to darken her up. However, in the meantime overall while that would really deliver Fam as a more rounded character like we'd probably like, even as she is I'm not sure I agree that she's out of place, she also on regular occasions shows respect for the dead whichh she deserves credit for and a desire to fight to put an end to Ades' aggresion and revive a time when people of all the nations could gather. One of the most important resonating themes in LE in my opinion that balances the darker war and politics has always been the awe and old-school love of flight and the free skies that Fam, Claus and Lavie all give off amongst the darker war tones and darker storylines. So while those other characters are indeed more "interesting" than Fam, Claus and Lavie since they are directly connected to the wars, I think just like them Fam is also necessary even if Fam is not as grounded as Lavie and her speeches and more "things will work out" like Claus, also unlike in the first series where there was no need to gather allies since Claus and Lavie were entering more or less a fixed conflict, here there are more world powers and Ades outclasses the others so there's no Disith/Anatoray-like power to keep them in check and Anatoray is new here so Fam's willingness to come to the aid of others with her Sky Pirates has been the instigating factor for why Turan (who they had if they could put together a new ship fleet for them under Millia, which was about to occur up until Liliana's return) and now potentially Glacies (or what's left of it after this upcoming battle with Ades' invasion force), especially if Fam's allies come to their aid when coming for Fam, have broken the ice to make them potential allies in the fight against Ades.

Spoiler:

In general, make a comparison between the first Exile and this Exile and our defined "main characters". I know that they are different shows but the underlying themes and tropes employed within these shows were quite different as was their execution. For Claus, within the first ten episodes he has more than a handful of character establishing moments: the brutality of the war between Disith and Anatoray that he and Lavie experience first hand and their struggle to deliver a letter to Mad-Thane, the deaths of the courier and Gita, taking on the ten star mission and Al despite all the risks, his encounter with Alex, and so on, all of these establish the basis of his character and his personality. Conversely (or comparatively), Fam's first ten episodes amounted to an almost nonsensical plot of stealing ships from idiots (which, at this point, seems to have had utterly no value to the plot aside from getting Fam together with Millia) and Fam's over the top character and personality. Her character is exceedingly static when compared to her predecessor who went through the ringer on multiple occasions within just the start of the show, or when compared to the story itself. There is supposedly a serious war going on in the background which would lead to very chaotic emotions and while this was well portrayed through Claus and Lavia (maybe because they were indeed stuck in the middle of it) but Fam's gung-ho giddiness really feels like a total disconnect.

Compare further, how we got to see Claus' talents as a pilot vs. how we saw it for Fam: the former started from displaying some skill in flying through a warzone but most of his development/talent came from his competition/life and death affair with Dio, Alex, and the battle for Al. For Fam? She's established as good, little show of her being good against someone better or of comparable level, and her escapades always succeed because her opponents were/are all idiots.

I'm not against Fam as a character, I'm against how Fam has been used as a character. Her goals and ideals are in stark contrast to the reality of what's going on in the background and she (and her personality) honestly seem entirely out of touch with reality. She seems/feels unrealistic when compared to not only the rest of the cast in her show but the cast of the previous exile.

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

Spoiler for my answer:

Also, I fail to see how the several episode long running thread of Fam choosing to help a Glacies pilot and them now returning the favor and Fam and the others now experiencing some of their country and connecting with a prominent pilot in their country's military is a trivial involvement in the plot, they also gave Dian her first real experience of flying in the free skies with a non-enclosed vanship, unlike Glacies ships, which has likely only strengthened her resolve on the battlefield experiencing non-warlike skies just like it did when Claus and Lavie first experienced it as kids and they loved it for life. She was also the one who pushed the pirates into coming to the aid of Turan and creating the foundation for that alliance (which almost happened) by coming to the aid of Millia and Liliana and the Turan Kingdom.

I also think that some of this feeling comes from the fact that Last Exile and this new one are one of the few shows that specifically stress that the main characters can only do things up to a point and then those supporting characters step in (as a previous poster described, there was no way Fam and the others would have survived against Alauda, but in most other shows the protagonist would get a big "this is why I'm the main character" moment here, instead just like in the first LE everyone has a part to play to their strengths).

Spoiler:

The show has certainly picked up in the recent episodes but the triviality comes more in her involvement in the first ten or so episodes where aside from Millia, Fam was involved in a seemingly inconsequential plot of stealing ships and stealing because the plot demanded... for whatever reason. There's a lot of time wasted on her character that hasn't done much to actually help her (or anyone else's for that matter) character develop, and it could have been better used for setting the pieces for the plot, reintroducing the old characters, and sparking the war conflict. Many of the biggest moments in the show as a whole have come (prior to the most resent couple episodes) from the reappearance of old characters and not Fam herself (with her involvement in these episodes being effectively coincidental). Ades' characters have been deeper involved in the plot than Fam and they are our antagonists.

This story as a whole has just been sloppy, from its handling of Fam, to its rocky first cour, to the dependence on idiot balls to keep the plot moving, and, worse of all, keeping Claus and Lavi barred from even being mentioned in the plot. The latter of which makes utterly no sense to me when Tatianna, Dio, and Al, have all appeared but we've yet to even hear word of mention of the former show's main characters. If they are dead then just tell us because, as it is, the fact that Claus is no where near Al makes utterly no sense if established characteristics from the first show are to be believed. I feel like its being kept a secret either: for some shock factor later on from Al (but then that brings question as to why/how Dio/Tatianna/Al are not exactly showing signs of having lost someone as important as Claus was for all three of them), or because Claus at this point would pull a Kira on Fam GSD style.

Last Exile the former had Claus as the main character but he failed regularly, was beaten regularly, evolved and had all the characteristics of a human, and his existence was always used as a compliment to other characters and a manner through which to develop others: Tatianna, Sophia, Alex, Al, Lavie, large chunks of the crew. Has Fam done this? For the most part through the entirety of this show, she's been entirely disconnected from the greater war in tone and theme, and her character has been a static, overly idealistic... thing, that has succeed because the plot said so.

[j4c06]

By the way, what do you think of the scene where Luscinia is asking Lilliana whether she is still agreeing to do her part (in the sub I watched he said something like "are you really ok doing that?"). Kinda too late for that, so far into the battle, and that seemed to be his only plan anyway.

[pewpewpew]

Maybe he was just surprised she was going along so meekly, and he was fishing for an explanation.

The she explains that her hands are already dirty, which is sort of true. After all, she's disowned her sister and ordered her fired upon.

[kk2extreme]

Glacies is not a country with just females afterall

[Julio C]

The fact that Anatoray's Exile is so different than the others still makes me wonder if it's the most advance one ever built or that it has the ability to command all other Exiles.

Next episode is just going to be a showdown between two Exiles and it's very likely that they'll just destroyed each other. I doubt that Turan's Exile is any better than Glacies Exile.

We still haven't seen Vasant's fleet yet, that's the fifth fleet right? I wonder if she'll break away from the Ades along with Sadri?

[Guido]

I think the show's stagnating if they don't hurry and introduce some true character developments all, as I perceived from my POV.

Fam's like a sort of Arika-Yumemiya kind of naive and happy character. Probably, she understands what's going on with the war but either she doesn't digest it or she's disconnected to keep her naiveness up and running, maybe?

Probably, we got some inside exposition into Glacies now that Dian has been properly introduced and interacted with the main female cast, but Dian strikes to Fam as being pessimistic; no Fam, Dian's not pessimistic, she's realistic.

The thing is that history of humans is mostly carved in war, and wars are not about making friends. It all starts with a dream or a vision, but soon it devolves into a bloody conflict and risky venture to achieve results.

You do not talk about dreams so naively in a state of war, unless you have power and trust to back up your words.

And, Anatoray's getting dangerous with Ades already planning for an invasion underway. Thankfully, Dio got to Al first and both got together out before Alauda have come into the fray himself.

[j4c06]

Originally Posted by pewpewpew

Maybe he was just surprised she was going along so meekly, and he was fishing for an explanation.

And what if she refused? A good moment for revenge, he would be very likely defeated by Glacies. A shaky ground to build plans on.

No, I don't think he was surprised, on the contrary, he was 100% sure in her actions. But why was he giving her this chance to change her mind...

[pewpewpew]

What I'm saying is that he wanted her to provide some justification for her own actions. "Why are you doing this?", basically. Presumably they've talked this over in the past (i.e. when he convinced her to help him, by whatever means), and now he's asking her a question either to remind her of what she said back then (her reason for helping him), or to test whether her feelings have changed.

Also, I don't think she can refuse to summon the Exile, short of suicide. Remember episode 2? She definately didn't consent to summoning the Exile, Luscinia just had Alauda drag her onto the bridge before he recited a mysterion. He only needs her present and able to hear what he's saying.

[MeggieMay]

I'm waiting to watch the new episode Monday but I did have a thought about where Claus might be

Spoiler:

Putting aside the discussion of how competent the writing is for Last Exile Fam, I've been thinking for a while that maybe the reason Claus isn't around so far in the story is because Claus is the holder of the four Mysteria for Antoray/Distish. While it's possible the wording isn't specific and Luscinia could simply use Lilliana's Mysteria to control Alvis, or any other Exile, I think that probably isn't the case. We know Lilliana's Mysteria isn't exactly the same as Alvis's (going off what was said in the first episodes) and Glacias' is probably not the same set either. Plus Glacias Mysteria are most likely not even in the same language as Antoray or Ades's are. So Luscinia is going to need Antoray's Mysterias do do anything here. While it's possible Dio knows all the Mysterias at this point (it's been a few years), we know he didn't know them in the first series - only Claus did in the end (it was a major plot point - even Alex Row intentionally didn't know them all and that was why Delphina couldn't get full control of Alvis).

At this point it would make sense to split up Alvis from Claus for security reasons. Dio and Vincent are better suited for hard core security with Alvis and Dio is actually making a good decoy on the subject of who holds Alvis's Mysteria. Why is Dio a good decoy? Because he's obviously, to those who know about the Guild, a high ranking Guild member. The Guild families are the ones who are suppose to control both the Mysteria and the Exiles which would make Dio a obvious candidate to be the person who has them. The fact he may not be the person who has them is going to cause a kink in anyone's plans to control Alvis, at least IMO.

Anyway, another possible scenario for next weeks episode, going off the spoilers I've read, could be Alvis and Co show up in their Exile to help out the Glacias. Then again the poster who pointed out that the Exiles battling each other seems like a major design flaw in the Exile program plans also made a good point. They may just end up discovering they won't attack each other and then the entire battle may take a left turn, so to speak. The fact the next episode it title Smothered Mate is rather interesting, as well.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

I'm waiting to watch the new episode Monday but I did have a thought about where Claus might be

Spoiler:

Putting aside the discussion of how competent the writing is for Last Exile Fam, I've been thinking for a while that maybe the reason Claus isn't around so far in the story is because Claus is the holder of the four Mysteria for Antoray/Distish. While it's possible the wording isn't specific and Luscinia could simply use Lilliana's Mysteria to control Alvis, or any other Exile, I think that probably isn't the case. We know Lilliana's Mysteria isn't exactly the same as Alvis's (going off what was said in the first episodes) and Glacias' is probably not the same set either. Plus Glacias Mysteria are most likely not even in the same language as Antoray or Ades's are. So Luscinia is going to need Antoray's Mysterias do do anything here. While it's possible Dio knows all the Mysterias at this point (it's been a few years), we know he didn't know them in the first series - only Claus did in the end (it was a major plot point - even Alex Row intentionally didn't know them all and that was why Delphina couldn't get full control of Alvis).

At this point it would make sense to split up Alvis from Claus for security reasons. Dio and Vincent are better suited for hard core security with Alvis and Dio is actually making a good decoy on the subject of who holds Alvis's Mysteria. Why is Dio a good decoy? Because he's obviously, to those who know about the Guild, a high ranking Guild member. The Guild families are the ones who are suppose to control both the Mysteria and the Exiles which would make Dio a obvious candidate to be the person who has them. The fact he may not be the person who has them is going to cause a kink in anyone's plans to control Alvis, at least IMO.

Anyway, another possible scenario for next weeks episode, going off the spoilers I've read, could be Alvis and Co show up in their Exile to help out the Glacias. Then again the poster who pointed out that the Exiles battling each other seems like a major design flaw in the Exile program plans also made a good point. They may just end up discovering they won't attack each other and then the entire battle may take a left turn, so to speak. The fact the next episode it title Smothered Mate is rather interesting, as well.

That's actually probably the best reasoning I've seen for where Claus is with regards to his absence from the plot.

The Exiles as we've seen from LE, can be offensive and quite destructive but only when not fully activated. When activated, it would seem like they effectively lose all self-defense priorities and take the form of a transportation vessel. Still, you'd expect a vessel with that important a package, to have self-defense armaments... but you'd also expect a coded defense against Exiles destroying one another since, well, you know, they're all very important to the survival of humanity. To have the Exiles fight seems like it would be more a call to "Rule of Cool" rather than "Rule of Logic".

[j4c06]

Originally Posted by pewpewpew

Also, I don't think she can refuse to summon the Exile, short of suicide.

I thought this is why she disowned her sister, as long as Millia is in hiding she has this freedom.

[pewpewpew]

Originally Posted by j4c06

I thought this is why she disowned her sister, as long as Millia is in hiding she has this freedom.

Theoretically, yes. Perhaps they've got her under the equivalent of suicide watch.

Thinking about this puts me in mind of how the Ades ships have a huge void in front of the platform the ship commander stands upon, without a safety rail or anything. Someone should really rectify that.

[Kanon]

I hope Liliana has some damn good reasons to help Luscina commit what is basically a genocide. I can't really think of any at the moment. Luscina's motivations are also unclear. Why does Ades even need to invade Glacies in the first place? Glacies' land are barren and they never threatened everybody. On the contrary, they tried to cut themselves off from the outside world. I assume he's after the White Legacy, but for what purpose?

Somehow I can't shake the feeling Luscina is trying to prepare for an unimaginable threat. In before aliens.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I hope Liliana has some damn good reasons to help Luscina commit what is basically a genocide. I can't really think of any at the moment. Luscina's motivations are also unclear. Why does Ades even need to invade Glacies in the first place? Glacies' land are barren and they never threatened everybody. On the contrary, they tried to cut themselves off from the outside world. I assume he's after the White Legacy, but for what purpose?

Somehow I can't shake the feeling Luscina is trying to prepare for an unimaginable threat. In before aliens.

Not sure genocide is intended in the case of Glacies; from what I've seen, they're simply burning the ground to deal with the fields of anti-aircraft cannon the Glacians seemed to have planted everywhere. Ades used Exile on Turan and there still was people left over as well.

As for their intent, I believe Luscina is trying to unite the world into one nation-entity in order to prevent future wars, to create "eternal" peace through force of arms.
Luscina has long lost faith in the "peaceful" cooperative approach, saying that he's doing to liberate the lands from the Exiles is probably only to justify the war to the people and army of the Ades.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by hai_san

God damn another f***ing cliffhanger...

I really really like the show but the cliffhangers after each ep makes my blood boil...

Not sure how that can be a bad thing especially with large scale events and things escalating that can't be told/solved within single episodes, I think they're great when done well and not artificial.

Plus, this is pretty much what happened that added even further excitement toward the second half of the first series being so addictive, once we hit the point where we started getting cliffhangers for the most part they just kept coming and the momentum and characters distinguishing themselves and the scale of events kept building and big things happened pretty much every week, you just had to keep watching how good everything was getting, you can still see on old discussions about the show how the "feather drop" that started the ED sequence was like, "daamn, I can't wait till next week!"

Originally Posted by pewpewpew

I want to go back two episodes to mention a scene I liked:

Spoiler for Episode 11:

I really enjoyed how there's this understated teasing going on between them, and how Alauda's the one dishing it out and Lukia's the straight man. Then we're back to the present day and he doesn't have anything to joke about.

Yeah, I quite liked how naturally effortlessly that added some nice "character" between them.

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

I'm waiting to watch the new episode Monday but I did have a thought about where Claus might be

Spoiler:

Putting aside the discussion of how competent the writing is for Last Exile Fam, I've been thinking for a while that maybe the reason Claus isn't around so far in the story is because Claus is the holder of the four Mysteria for Antoray/Distish. While it's possible the wording isn't specific and Luscinia could simply use Lilliana's Mysteria to control Alvis, or any other Exile, I think that probably isn't the case. We know Lilliana's Mysteria isn't exactly the same as Alvis's (going off what was said in the first episodes) and Glacias' is probably not the same set either. Plus Glacias Mysteria are most likely not even in the same language as Antoray or Ades's are. So Luscinia is going to need Antoray's Mysterias do do anything here. While it's possible Dio knows all the Mysterias at this point (it's been a few years), we know he didn't know them in the first series - only Claus did in the end (it was a major plot point - even Alex Row intentionally didn't know them all and that was why Delphina couldn't get full control of Alvis).

At this point it would make sense to split up Alvis from Claus for security reasons. Dio and Vincent are better suited for hard core security with Alvis and Dio is actually making a good decoy on the subject of who holds Alvis's Mysteria. Why is Dio a good decoy? Because he's obviously, to those who know about the Guild, a high ranking Guild member. The Guild families are the ones who are suppose to control both the Mysteria and the Exiles which would make Dio a obvious candidate to be the person who has them. The fact he may not be the person who has them is going to cause a kink in anyone's plans to control Alvis, at least IMO.

Anyway, another possible scenario for next weeks episode, going off the spoilers I've read, could be Alvis and Co show up in their Exile to help out the Glacias. Then again the poster who pointed out that the Exiles battling each other seems like a major design flaw in the Exile program plans also made a good point. They may just end up discovering they won't attack each other and then the entire battle may take a left turn, so to speak. The fact the next episode it title Smothered Mate is rather interesting, as well.

Very well put.

Spoiler:

I totally agree with that reasoning and I'm also highly inclined to agree with the deduction, and it makes perfect sense since they are a security function, from Liliana's Mysteriums being different from those Claus and Alvis used that they are indeed different and unique for each Exile/Key (not to mention the language difference likely for Glacies' Exile), so those of Turan would be useless with Alvis/Anatoray's Exile.

Originally Posted by pewpewpew

Also, I don't think she can refuse to summon the Exile, short of suicide. Remember episode 2? She definately didn't consent to summoning the Exile, Luscinia just had Alauda drag her onto the bridge before he recited a mysterion. He only needs her present and able to hear what he's saying.

Spoiler for Alvis S1 example:

Agreed, they definitely don't seem to be able to, a second example is that Alvis couldn't do anything against Delphine either and she also definitely didn't consent to helping Delphine, the only thing that froze that activation was that Delphine couldn't get the last Mysterium out of Alex since he didn't have it.

[Graveyard Duck]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

Spoiler:

Anyway, another possible scenario for next weeks episode, going off the spoilers I've read, could be Alvis and Co show up in their Exile to help out the Glacias. Then again the poster who pointed out that the Exiles battling each other seems like a major design flaw in the Exile program plans also made a good point. They may just end up discovering they won't attack each other and then the entire battle may take a left turn, so to speak. The fact the next episode it title Smothered Mate is rather interesting, as well.

It may not be a safety feature that the designers thought would be necessary. The Exiles appear to be sent to vastly different locations to establish presters, so the chances that two would encounter each other and have some incentive to try to destroy each other is quite small. As for when they've returned to Earth:

Spoiler for Hourglass Manga, chapter 3:

The Guild member on Earth was expecting the Anatoray returnees to be guided by the Anatoray Guild, and that they would submit to continue Guild rule. This indicates that the Exile program was a coordinated effort under the Guild. Thus, they may not have had the foresight to construct the Exiles with features to prevent them from destroying each other once they've returned to Earth--they certainly didn't seem to have the foresight to plan for Guilds going native or forgetting their purpose.

[Myssa Rei]

Graveyard Duck: That... makes a lot of sense actually. When one remembers how the Guild was essentially established to get as many people OFF Earth ASAP, I suppose considering what happens after the people return isn't really a priority (or what the people would DO to the Exiles themselves afterward). Also to add to what you noted, one of the things mentioned in the supplements was that the signal for the Exiles to return was supposed to be done in a single go... yet all evidence shows that the Exiles came back gradually over hundreds of years.