AnimeSuki Forums

SeijiSensei · 2012-09-12, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Seems like what I had predicted about an year ago is coming back: Libya will not be pretty if there is regime change.

Libya was not all that "pretty" under Qaddafi either.

Sumeragi · 2012-09-12, 07:42

Yes, but then there were many a "liberal" who made it seems it would be roses after the overthrow, and thus would fling fire and brimstone on those who were reserved. Not on this forums of course: Animesuki is one of the most tolerant forums I've seen.

DonQuigleone · 2012-09-12, 12:30

I watched the incendiary Movie trailer in question. It's incredibly hilariously badly made. However, ultimately it's very crude hate speech. While people should have the right to film whatever they like, I think the film makers deserve their death threats. The film is obscene. I mean it shows Mohammed having (and endorsing) sex with children...

AND everyone is in Brown face, and is filled with hateful ethnic stereotypes that would not be out of place in an anti-Semitic rag (ironic considering the purported director is an Israeli Jew). In fact it's repeating anti-Arab screed that dates back to the Middle Ages.

As for the attack on the US embassies, those were completely unwarranted. Vexx is right in calling it "Idiots vs. Idiots". The Ambassador and his staff had nothing to do with this Movie. The Egyptian and Libyan governments need to bring these murderers to justice.

Personally I agree with the president's response. This kind of hate speech (and poorly made hate speech at that) is not the sort of the thing that should be defended as freedom of speech. It is absolutely vile. If its content wasn't so vile, I could laugh at it with abandon (it really is terribly made). That this film was financed and made by Jews only proves that there's a very sick hateful part of the community.

SeijiSensei · 2012-09-12, 12:46

In support of my earlier comments about Mitt Romney, the Times has a blog posting today about how his reaction to the events in Libya fits with the narrative about foreign policy in his book, No Apology.

ganbaru · 2012-09-12, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Personally I agree with the president's response. This kind of hate speech (and poorly made hate speech at that) is not the sort of the thing that should be defended as freedom of speech. It is absolutely vile. If its content wasn't so vile, I could laugh at it with abandon (it really is terribly made). That this film was financed and made by Jews only proves that there's a very sick hateful part of the community.

The responsibles behind the might try to use the example of the caricature of Muhammad to give himself some credibility but if he do it would be bullshit. At least the filmmaker is now hiding : http://news.yahoo.com/anti-islam-fil...042924045.html

Beside Egypt and Libya, did this movie sparked other violence somewhere ? Place like Afghanistan and Pakistan usualy come to mind when we hear about such event.

Vexx · 2012-09-12, 15:12

Ridicule or "disrespect" doesn't justify physical violence or murder... ever. I'll respect someone's invisible sky wizard notions *AFTER* they stop brutalizing anyone who doesn't lockstep with their nonsense rules or points out problems with their notions.

Paranoid Android · 2012-09-12, 15:17

Gas prices in Montreal hikes up by 20 cents a litre. OUCH!

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...307/story.html

Lol, because I'm not a local, the first thought at "Libre 151.4" was "Buy your liberty for $151.4"

Anyways, $1.514 CAD/L is $5.87 USD/Gallon for reference. If that conversion is wrong, I blame google.

Endless Soul · 2012-09-12, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Ridicule or "disrespect" doesn't justify physical violence or murder... ever. I'll respect someone's invisible sky wizard notions *AFTER* they stop brutalizing anyone who doesn't lockstep with their nonsense rules or points out problems with their notions.

Huzzah, brother!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

Gas prices in Montreal hikes up by 20 cents a litre. OUCH!

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...307/story.html

Lol, because I'm not a local, the first thought at "Libre 151.4" was "Buy your liberty for $151.4"

Anyways, $1.514 CAD/L is $5.87 USD/Gallon for reference. If that conversion is wrong, I blame google.

And that it the real reason why I ride a bike to work. It's just too darn expensive to drive every day. The awesome exercise and weight loss is a benefit.

Endless "2067 miles logged on the bike in 2012" Soul

Irenicus · 2012-09-12, 15:45

23 years after the Hillsborough Disaster, a government panel released a report which, to sum up, asserted that everything the media said about it was wrong.

Prime Minister Cameron and Opposition Leader Miliband formally apologized today in a House of Commons session. Among the choice words, they pointed out a concerted campaign of blaming the victims, police failures, unremarkable levels of alcohol consumption, questionable investigations which sought to create such a story from the beginning, in short, a gigantic coverup. Certain members of the Commons asked outright if some in the media (read: The Sun and its filthy smear campaign) would be punished. Given the post-News of the World atmosphere of British public opinion, this might actually be a very real possibility.

I feel somewhat bad that, being so detached from the event -- it was a British disaster that impacted primarily the British psyche, just like how many non-Americans viewed the persistent 9/11 theme in the United States with bemusement -- I just wondered what kind of retribution Liverpool F.C. fans can now throw back at the rival football fans over the years who liked to mock them for their supposedly infamous hooliganism.

willx · 2012-09-12, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

The responsibles behind the might try to use the example of the caricature of Muhammad to give himself some credibility but if he do it would be bullshit. At least the filmmaker is now hiding : http://news.yahoo.com/anti-islam-fil...042924045.html

Beside Egypt and Libya, did this movie sparked other violence somewhere ? Place like Afghanistan and Pakistan usualy come to mind when we hear about such event.

They blocked Youtube in Afghanistan so people wouldn't be able to see it.. We'll see how it develops over the next couple of days..

DonQuigleone · 2012-09-12, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Ridicule or "disrespect" doesn't justify physical violence or murder... ever. I'll respect someone's invisible sky wizard notions *AFTER* they stop brutalizing anyone who doesn't lockstep with their nonsense rules or points out problems with their notions.

I think that movie goes beyond "ridicule and disrespect". That's implying it's like the sacrilegious episode of South Park, or those Danish political cartoons. This movie is not that, it is a vile hateful film that seeks to depict Muslims as stupid murderous sex-crazed savages. While attacking the US embassy because of it is completely wrong, this is a piece of propaganda that should still be completely condemned by anyone. It's hate speech of the most bigoted and close minded kind. This is not some nice bunch of lulzey guys poking fun at Islamic religion. This is "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" type stuff.

It's atrocious production values might make it seem comic, but it wouldn't be the first screed that was produced poorly. I don't think there's anything wrong with Arabs (and Muslims) objecting to this film, it contains many slurs. There's stuff there that would fit right in to a black face routine (except here it's brown face).

On the flip side, this film is so obscure, that I can only think that the people who publicized it's existence had ulterior motives in mind. While I think the attitudes the film reflects are unfortunately widespread, it had basically been unseen by anyone. This film is basically a volleyball being tossed between two hate filled groups who are more alike then they'd like to think.

Of course, the film is so bad, it's easy to mistake it for Satire, but I think that's giving the film waaay too much credit. Any humour contained in it is of a very crude kind.

sneaker · 2012-09-12, 16:22

Formely secret documents now published by the US archive reveal the western Allies knew about the Soviet Union being responsible for the Katyn massacre already during the war:
US, Britain hushed up Katyn killings

Sumeragi · 2012-09-12, 16:24

I'm pretty sure that was an open secret.

Vexx · 2012-09-12, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

I think that movie goes beyond "ridicule and disrespect". That's implying it's like the sacrilegious episode of South Park, or those Danish political cartoons. This movie is not that, it is a vile hateful film that seeks to depict Muslims as stupid murderous sex-crazed savages. While attacking the US embassy because of it is completely wrong, this is a piece of propaganda that should still be completely condemned by anyone. It's hate speech of the most bigoted and close minded kind. This is not some nice bunch of lulzey guys poking fun at Islamic religion. This is "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" type stuff.

It's atrocious production values might make it seem comic, but it wouldn't be the first screed that was produced poorly. I don't think there's anything wrong with Arabs (and Muslims) objecting to this film, it contains many slurs. There's stuff there that would fit right in to a black face routine (except here it's brown face).

On the flip side, this film is so obscure, that I can only think that the people who publicized it's existence had ulterior motives in mind. While I think the attitudes the film reflects are unfortunately widespread, it had basically been unseen by anyone. This film is basically a volleyball being tossed between two hate filled groups who are more alike then they'd like to think.

Of course, the film is so bad, it's easy to mistake it for Satire, but I think that's giving the film waaay too much credit. Any humour contained in it is of a very crude kind.

Wasn't even considering it humor/satire... its an ugly piece of work and I condemn it as well (which I thought I made clear in "idiots vs idiots"). It still does not justify physical violence. Maybe counter-ridicule.

willx · 2012-09-12, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneaker

Formely secret documents now published by the US archive reveal the western Allies knew about the Soviet Union being responsible for the Katyn massacre already during the war:
US, Britain hushed up Katyn killings

Ha, that's as surprising as learning western governments were supporting 1) Gaddafi and 2) Saddam previously.. Oh wait, it isn't!

On important news, the iPhone 5 is going to be longer, thinner and work with LTE!!

Urzu 7 · 2012-09-12, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Wasn't even considering it humor/satire... its an ugly piece of work and I condemn it as well (which I thought I made clear in "idiots vs idiots"). It still does not justify physical violence. Maybe counter-ridicule.

That is what is so sad and maddening; they don't go for counter-ridicule, they go for violence and killing. It'd be great if all they offered in return was some well executed counter-ridicule.

KiraYamatoFan · 2012-09-12, 16:54

There are times when I look at how many times Western embassies in the Middle-East were attacked in the last 30-35 years, I wonder if the people in this part of the world have ever thought of the consequences following their stupid actions. So far, we didn't have much of a wild response in Europe and North America such as attacking embassies of Middle-East countries or such, and thank heavens people are clever enough not to fall into that. However, should we go through human psychology, there could be a point in time in which it reaches the breaking point if one side keeps on pushing and pushing. In short: have the people in the Middle-East ever thought of what would happen to their countrymen living abroad as embassy/consulate workers or as normal citizens if such stupid actions are repeated over and over again towards breaking point? Second thought probably isn't a forte over there unfortunately.

Although people won't speak too openly about it here, Muslim Arabs are probably the least liked ethnic/religious group in my city (and probably in other cities in North America too) because of their spoiled brat-like reactions (I 've seen that a few times) when this or that doesn't go according to their religion/culture at the same time a number of them don't seem to make efforts integrating into the local culture nor to separate themselves from the true idiots in public. Even my friend from Morroco says that there are still too many Muslim Arabs who take everything literally and who don't make enough efforts to shake off all the bad stereotypes they, whether they like them or not, contributed in creating with their actions. I'm sure there were particular stereotypes for Caucasian Christians centuries ago, but those people found a way to shake off a number of those stereotypes over time with efforts.

About that movie trailer... that was utter ridiculous. *facepalms* However, I don't think it is something to take it literally other than saying that the people behind the movie are sheer idiots. Again, that's not something worthy ot taking it literally unless you want to add fuel on fire.

Vexx · 2012-09-12, 16:58

Invisible sky wizard idiots kill random people because other invisible sky wizard idiots wave their fannies at them in a video. Dangerous idiots, all of them.

sneaker · 2012-09-12, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

On important news, the iPhone 5 is going to be longer, thinner and work with LTE!!

But no "world phone". Three different versions, none of them supporting LTE on 800 MHz or 2600 MHz, limiting the usage in Europe and Asia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

There are times when I look at how many times Western embassies in the Middle-East were attacked in the last 30-35 years, I wonder if the people in this part of the world have ever thought of the consequences following their stupid actions. So far, we didn't have much of a wild response in Europe and North America such as attacking embassies of Middle-East countries or such, and thank heavens people are clever enough not to fall into that. However, should we go through human psychology, there could be a point in time in which it reaches the breaking point if one side keeps on pushing and pushing. In short: have the people in the Middle-East ever thought of what would happen to their countrymen living abroad as embassy/consulate workers or as normal citizens if such stupid actions are repeated over and over again towards breaking point? Second thought probably isn't a forte over there unfortunately.

Their countrymen abroad are supposed to conquer the other countries by immigration/increased birth rates.

Zakoo · 2012-09-12, 17:14

The problem isn't with religions, religions have always been a necessity for human kind, and it's thanks the the Arabic world and Islam that Europe entered Renaissance. We were the same idiotic christianism zealot, burning women and doing many others nasty things before.

Nop, the problem isn't the invisible pink unicorn, or tentaculous monsters, it's simply the lack of education in this part of the world, or should I say, the fact the education is heavely influenced by Islam.
Education is forcibly influenced by religion, but some countries -even western side heh

- got their system really messed up, twited, to the point it became propaganda.

I don't think the world would be better without religion, I have no basement to asset such a fact, but I know, for sure that if you give people a proper education, religion only becomes a "way of living" or a "path to rightfulness" and not what is it for some extremists people who the moment they were born, sat and had to listen to some lies, continously, and continously until it entered to the deepest part of their brain.

2012-09-12, 12:46	Link #23384
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	In support of my earlier comments about Mitt Romney, the Times has a blog posting today about how his reaction to the events in Libya fits with the narrative about foreign policy in his book, No Apology. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2012-09-12, 15:12	Link #23386
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 67	Ridicule or "disrespect" doesn't justify physical violence or murder... ever. I'll respect someone's invisible sky wizard notions AFTER they stop brutalizing anyone who doesn't lockstep with their nonsense rules or points out problems with their notions. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-09-12, 16:58	Link #23398
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 67	Invisible sky wizard idiots kill random people because other invisible sky wizard idiots wave their fannies at them in a video. Dangerous idiots, all of them. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-09-12, 07:42	Link #23382
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	Yes, but then there were many a "liberal" who made it seems it would be roses after the overthrow, and thus would fling fire and brimstone on those who were reserved. Not on this forums of course: Animesuki is one of the most tolerant forums I've seen.

2012-09-12, 12:30	Link #23383
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 36	I watched the incendiary Movie trailer in question. It's incredibly hilariously badly made. However, ultimately it's very crude hate speech. While people should have the right to film whatever they like, I think the film makers deserve their death threats. The film is obscene. I mean it shows Mohammed having (and endorsing) sex with children... AND everyone is in Brown face, and is filled with hateful ethnic stereotypes that would not be out of place in an anti-Semitic rag (ironic considering the purported director is an Israeli Jew). In fact it's repeating anti-Arab screed that dates back to the Middle Ages. As for the attack on the US embassies, those were completely unwarranted. Vexx is right in calling it "Idiots vs. Idiots". The Ambassador and his staff had nothing to do with this Movie. The Egyptian and Libyan governments need to bring these murderers to justice. Personally I agree with the president's response. This kind of hate speech (and poorly made hate speech at that) is not the sort of the thing that should be defended as freedom of speech. It is absolutely vile. If its content wasn't so vile, I could laugh at it with abandon (it really is terribly made). That this film was financed and made by Jews only proves that there's a very sick hateful part of the community.

2012-09-12, 15:17	Link #23387
Paranoid Android Underweight Food Hoarder Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Kitch-Water and T.O., Canada Age: 33	Gas prices in Montreal hikes up by 20 cents a litre. OUCH! http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...307/story.html Lol, because I'm not a local, the first thought at "Libre 151.4" was "Buy your liberty for $151.4" Anyways, $1.514 CAD/L is $5.87 USD/Gallon for reference. If that conversion is wrong, I blame google.

2012-09-12, 15:45	Link #23389
Irenicus Le fou, c'est moi Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA Age: 35	23 years after the Hillsborough Disaster, a government panel released a report which, to sum up, asserted that everything the media said about it was wrong. Prime Minister Cameron and Opposition Leader Miliband formally apologized today in a House of Commons session. Among the choice words, they pointed out a concerted campaign of blaming the victims, police failures, unremarkable levels of alcohol consumption, questionable investigations which sought to create such a story from the beginning, in short, a gigantic coverup. Certain members of the Commons asked outright if some in the media (read: The Sun and its filthy smear campaign) would be punished. Given the post-News of the World atmosphere of British public opinion, this might actually be a very real possibility. I feel somewhat bad that, being so detached from the event -- it was a British disaster that impacted primarily the British psyche, just like how many non-Americans viewed the persistent 9/11 theme in the United States with bemusement -- I just wondered what kind of retribution Liverpool F.C. fans can now throw back at the rival football fans over the years who liked to mock them for their supposedly infamous hooliganism.

2012-09-12, 16:22	Link #23392
sneaker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Formely secret documents now published by the US archive reveal the western Allies knew about the Soviet Union being responsible for the Katyn massacre already during the war: US, Britain hushed up Katyn killings

2012-09-12, 16:24	Link #23393
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	I'm pretty sure that was an open secret.

2012-09-12, 16:54	Link #23397
KiraYamatoFan Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Age: 41	There are times when I look at how many times Western embassies in the Middle-East were attacked in the last 30-35 years, I wonder if the people in this part of the world have ever thought of the consequences following their stupid actions. So far, we didn't have much of a wild response in Europe and North America such as attacking embassies of Middle-East countries or such, and thank heavens people are clever enough not to fall into that. However, should we go through human psychology, there could be a point in time in which it reaches the breaking point if one side keeps on pushing and pushing. In short: have the people in the Middle-East ever thought of what would happen to their countrymen living abroad as embassy/consulate workers or as normal citizens if such stupid actions are repeated over and over again towards breaking point? Second thought probably isn't a forte over there unfortunately. Although people won't speak too openly about it here, Muslim Arabs are probably the least liked ethnic/religious group in my city (and probably in other cities in North America too) because of their spoiled brat-like reactions (I 've seen that a few times) when this or that doesn't go according to their religion/culture at the same time a number of them don't seem to make efforts integrating into the local culture nor to separate themselves from the true idiots in public. Even my friend from Morroco says that there are still too many Muslim Arabs who take everything literally and who don't make enough efforts to shake off all the bad stereotypes they, whether they like them or not, contributed in creating with their actions. I'm sure there were particular stereotypes for Caucasian Christians centuries ago, but those people found a way to shake off a number of those stereotypes over time with efforts. About that movie trailer... that was utter ridiculous. facepalms However, I don't think it is something to take it literally other than saying that the people behind the movie are sheer idiots. Again, that's not something worthy ot taking it literally unless you want to add fuel on fire.

2012-09-12, 17:14	Link #23400
Zakoo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Gensokyo	The problem isn't with religions, religions have always been a necessity for human kind, and it's thanks the the Arabic world and Islam that Europe entered Renaissance. We were the same idiotic christianism zealot, burning women and doing many others nasty things before. Nop, the problem isn't the invisible pink unicorn, or tentaculous monsters, it's simply the lack of education in this part of the world, or should I say, the fact the education is heavely influenced by Islam. Education is forcibly influenced by religion, but some countries -even western side heh - got their system really messed up, twited, to the point it became propaganda. I don't think the world would be better without religion, I have no basement to asset such a fact, but I know, for sure that if you give people a proper education, religion only becomes a "way of living" or a "path to rightfulness" and not what is it for some extremists people who the moment they were born, sat and had to listen to some lies, continously, and continously until it entered to the deepest part of their brain.