2013-02-10, 18:23 | Link #121 | ||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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And Tobirama. The fact he that he came up with a jutsu like Edo Tensei put his morality into question before. And his suspicion against the Uchiha was already known. Still, I didn't think he was this cold-hearted of a bastard. To be so openly prejudiced against the Uchiha. Not even a little bothered to hear the clan had been massacred. Though he's still a good guy, he's definitely a bit of an a**hole, which he seems to be perfectly aware of. Quote:
But, I do imagine Naruto will lose the Kyuubi and Bee the Hachibi. Now that the bijuu have been shown to have human-like feelings and attachments, it seems kind of unfair to have them sealed as prisoners, even if they may genuinely care about their hosts. Wouldn't be surprised if they somehow merge back with the juubi and "purify" it, then leave so that its power can't be used for destruction again.
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2013-02-10, 18:42 | Link #122 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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That being said, I'm still expecting Naruto to become the Jinchuuriki for the re-emerged Jyuubi. |
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2013-02-10, 19:21 | Link #123 | |||
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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- The alliances are already fighting to protect the jinchuuriki, furthermore Naruto's already giving the Kyuubi's power to everyone to fight with, showing the Kyuubi's power can actually be power shared for the good of everyone, even though one person holds the source. - Gaara is already Naruto's biggest supporter, kazekage and a former jinchuuriki. Bee, isn't a kage, but very influential in the Cloud and also has a bond with Naruto. The Mizukage is eager for peace and acceptance of the other villages to throw off the stigma of the "Bloody Mist". The Tuschikage would probably be the most reluctant, but even he seems to have changed his outlook during the war. - All the villages have suffered major casualties and devastation during the war. More than ever, they'll need to rely on others for support and aid to rebuild. And Naruto has become an icon. Rather than fearing him, I think they'd probably admire his strength. Unlike past Hokage, Naruto has never built infamy in other villages fighting for Konoha in wars (the sneak attack by the Sound and Sand notwithstanding). So personal bitterness from past conflicts won't be an issue. He is in a much better position to become a leader during a time of peace. Quote:
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2013-02-10, 19:58 | Link #124 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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Imagine this world without Hashirama because for all his talk about the greater good of the village Tobirama wouldn't have been able to create it in the first place. He'd never have asked a truce with the Uchiha and in the off chance that it somehow happened the Uchiha would never have chosen him as their leader over their own. This so called rabid clan accepted peace with their mortal enemy, chose the greatest of them as leader and it took then 5 generations of Tobirama's policy + the Kyubi attack and the distrust and segregation that followed for years to make them revolt and plan a coup. Do you really think that had Hashirama lived the same would have happened? Because it really doesn't seem to me that's what the author is going for. Peace is impossible with [insert any clan/village/people] is what Madara's gunning for but it's not the moral of the story. Last edited by Hunter; 2013-02-10 at 20:11. |
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2013-02-10, 21:30 | Link #125 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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2013-02-10, 23:40 | Link #126 | |||
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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2013-02-11, 00:08 | Link #127 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Maybe we are arguing semantics, but an asshole to me is someone that takes pleasure in the pain of others (schadenfreude is an extreme version). Tobirama is definitely prejudicial, maybe even hateful (debatable) of the Uchiha, but overall I didn't read any joy in Tobirama's treatment of the Uchiha nor their demise. (he was very matter the fact about his fear of the Uchiha's eventual decline, so much so that I doubt he realizes that he created a self fullfilling prophecy ). He's more of a douche than an asshole.
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2013-02-11, 09:04 | Link #129 | |
Smurfee
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Caribbean
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But I take it that almost everyone is tired of the Uchiha clan history/heritage and just pretty much become haters so anything negative against the clan is viewed as good what can ya do? |
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2013-02-11, 09:09 | Link #130 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Now that this convo has reached it's South Parkian level of inanity, I'm going to bow out. |
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2013-02-11, 09:10 | Link #131 | |
Smurfee
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Caribbean
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2013-02-11, 11:30 | Link #132 |
The First Rasengan!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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tobirama sounds a bit envious of the uchiha power imo...i kinda get that frieza to the saiyans vibe...just me. could be wrong...
anyways, im itching to know what the revelation means to the story. from the sage all the way to the present. was the eldest son really intended to be the successor but was usurped? did the eldest son choose might as the way to govern cuz he was well aware of the consequences of emotion? will that damn rabbit ever get that bowl of trix??
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2013-02-11, 11:33 | Link #133 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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Tobirama like many old school shinobi in the story is simply the product of his time and he couldn't rise above it like his brother did. We've seen many old ninja like that, generally until Naruto turns on his Colgate power and change them into Carebears (although considering Tobirama appears to be immune to his brother's maybe he's a hard-case). So the part I think you were wrong is more concerning the fact that the Uchiha were a lost cause. Hashirama proved it wasn't the case and Tobirama worst sin was to give up on this ideal which as Naruto painfully repeats all the time is really something you shouldn't do. |
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2013-02-11, 12:38 | Link #134 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Tobirama sacrificed himself for the simple reason that it was more practical for his team to survive and lead Konoha than it was for him to survive but the future generation die. He didn't sacrifice himself out of the kindness of his heart, nor do I think he was being altruistic in any respect. He sacrificed himself because logically he was the only one there that could do what needed to be done while also helping his village. (Shikimaru did something similar during the Sound/Sand invasion.) Quote:
Honestly, I do not know if Hashirama appealed to their humanity or he simply made them complacent, whatever the case it is hard to see how simply treating the Uchiha with kindness helped to stave off the monster that presumably lives inside of them. Hopefully Hashirama will be able to discuss this problem next chapter and give us some further insight into why he felt the Uchiha could be saved (whereas Tobirama felt they were doomed since birth). Last edited by james0246; 2013-02-11 at 12:48. |
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2013-02-11, 13:28 | Link #135 | |
Endless
Join Date: May 2004
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The Uchiha still rationalizing that they are somehow the victims is just laughable. Wanting to revolt just because they didn't get good real estate IS a good reason to be put down by Itachi. Tobirama gave them a chance to regain the village's trust and they blew it. So what if they were suspected for the 9 tails' attack? An Uchiha WAS responsible for it. They should have just swallowed their pride and slowly regain the village's trust instead of plotting a revolt and confirming Tobirama's sterotypes of them. After reading this chapter I'm glad Itachi did what he did. The clan was hopeless from the start. |
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2013-02-11, 14:03 | Link #136 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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By this definition of bad person 99.9999% of humans are bad. I think none of these characters should be called bad, they were put in extreme conditions and they failed in some matters, but most humans would fail just like they did.
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2013-02-11, 14:19 | Link #137 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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I am not discussing the real world, so please do not bring up realistic examples of humanity or human interaction. The Narutoverse does not correlate to reality, and Naruto is always correct (even when he is not). Last edited by james0246; 2013-02-11 at 17:11. |
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2013-02-11, 14:22 | Link #138 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
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2013-02-11, 14:30 | Link #139 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Very well, unnamed characters do not matter (they have no personalities, thus no alignment). Consequently, quite a bit of the Narutoverse is "good" (acts like Naruto...or at least follows his whims), arguably the vast majority is currently "good", with only a few characters still "bad". Within the Narutoverse, there were more "bad" characters in the past, but the "good" characters were always amongst the most powerful (Hashirama, Minato, Jiraiya, etc).
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2013-02-11, 17:17 | Link #140 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Nagato and Itachi bad people?
They did fail at doing the right thing, but they're not bad people. Maybe the word you're looking for is weak or flawed if you think weak is inappropreate. A bad person is someone who kicks puppies for whatever reason. I hereby proclaim that Tobi would kick a puppy if it meant seeing Rin again. |
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weekly spoiler discussion |
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