Rebelling against demographics, and it pays off

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Lyocol

Before I went straight to the point I want to ask how many women(especially English-speaking ones) actually saw Queen's Blade? Of course there aren't any.

In the West most male viewers already appreciate shoujo and josei shows but strangely there aren't any women actually saw something like Queen's Blade and Strike Witches. Maybe most of them though only 30-years old virgin males enjoyed such shows but that just a bad and baseless stereotype to begin with.

Queen's Blade and Strike Witches are heavily rooted in fanservice (and it's a type of fanservice that obviously isn't going to appeal to many heterosexual women). Many Shoujo and Josei shows aren't rooted in fanservice. So it's not really the fairest comparison to begin with, imo.

Anyway, why does it matter to you if women watch shows like Queen's Blade or not?

[Echoes]

In addition the objections already raised by Jan-Poo and Triple R, I don't even buy your claim that most "men in the West" appreciate shoujo, much less josei. (Nor do I think that there are no women who have seen Strike Witches, but I'll assume that was hyperbole on your part.)

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Echoes

(Nor do I think that there are no women who have seen Strike Witches, but I'll assume that was hyperbole on your part.)

There are women who have seen Strike Witches, my girlfriend is one of them. And well before I took an interest in her too.

One of the most quoted surveys of anime show demographics also showed that Strike Witches 2's fanbase in Japan was about ~10% female - admittedly the lowest of the four shows in the survey (compare to Madoka at ~25%, K-On at around 37%, and Kuroshitsuji at ~65%? I'm looking at the chart version here so I'm having to guess a little bit).

Queen's Blade... while there's enough cosplay of it on Japanese blogs to suggest some women watch it, it doesn't really have the cute factor of Strike Witches so I suspect the female base is smaller. I've run into a female exchange student from Japan through my local anime club who admitted to watching some of HentaiNeko because she thought it was cute. I recall being impressed that another - a self described shounen fangirl at that who was excited about the JoJos anime - was familiar enough with both Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo and Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko to understand my comparison of the lead pairings.

(My experience with these exchange students is that there's certain seinen shows all of them have seen too. While certain fujoshi and shounen shows are as popular with these exchange students as you'd expect, it feels like just about all of them have seen Madoka, K-On!, and Bakemonogatari - if not on their own, then with a friend.)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

(My experience with these exchange students is that there's certain seinen shows all of them have seen too. While certain fujoshi and shounen shows are as popular with these exchange students as you'd expect, it feels like just about all of them have seen Madoka, K-On!, and Bakemonogatari - if not on their own, then with a friend.)

I'm not surprised at Madoka and K-On! Madoka's plot is very serious, with minimal fanservice. It's the sort of show that I think really cuts through demographic boundaries.

K-On! gained a large female audience as most, if not all, of us here know.


Bake I'm a little bit surprised by, but then it's two main strengths (SHAFT visuals, very sharp dialogue) are something that men, women, and teenagers can appreciate. I can also see female fans of the show admiring Hitagi, who comes across as a very strong and capable female lead. So yeah, not surprising at all, on second thought.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

There are women who have seen Strike Witches, my girlfriend is one of them. And well before I took an interest in her too.

One of the most quoted surveys of anime show demographics also showed that Strike Witches 2's fanbase in Japan was about ~10% female - admittedly the lowest of the four shows in the survey (compare to Madoka at ~25%, K-On at around 37%, and Kuroshitsuji at ~65%? I'm looking at the chart version here so I'm having to guess a little bit).

Yeah, exactly man. Whatever the series is, there will always be a contingent of each gender watching it, miniscule thought it may be on occasion. Queen's Blade is probably about as one-sided as it gets, but if the Amazon reviews I've read are to be believed, someone actually bought it for their daughter, and someone else claims that both he and his wife like the show. So there's supposedly at least a few out there.

[Fireminer]

Tch... There is nothing as demographic when it come to Arts and Science!

And Queen Blade was made for boy, but it's also include tomboy, you know?

[Akito Kinomoto]

Demographics are the target audience and infrequently silent on content. That or Japan's demographics can also enjoy a wide story range. If I'm reading it right the OP is about the time we watched something despite its demographic (assuming we cared at all) so my earliest experience with this is either Fruits Basket, Cardcaptor Sakura, or Kare Kano. X/1999 was the first to dispel my actionless shojo stereotype and Death Note did the same to my action-packed shonen stereotype. But so far I usually watch male-oriented or universal anime while I'm gender-diverse on manga reading for reasons unknown to me.

/demographic experiences.

[0utf0xZer0]

I just remembered that the Funimation tried to heavily market the show that got me into anime - Moon Phase, which is seinen - to girls in the US.

And amusingly enough, I do have a picture from a con I attended back in 2008 of a 13 year old girl cosplaying Hazuki. Not sure that's a result of Funimation's marketing though: I recently asked her about it when I saw her at a con (she looks like she could still fit the costume...) - she laughed "yeah it's a bit ecchi isn't it" - and said she has older brothers.

[Kameruka]

I've been reading every single posts in this thread and I don't like what I saw. Most people here didn't take this thread serious maybe because the OP sounds too sarcastic for her own good but I can see her good reason for making this thread. Maybe she just want anime fans, both male and female to step outside their safe zone. Even just for a while. Even just for one title.

Before I start pointing at major points I want to exclude hyper-popular shounen shows mostly from Jump! like Dragonball, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Hitman Reborn, Fairy Tail(not Jump! but still shounen) and etc. since their hype are too big to begin with. Unless you lived under a rock or not an anime fan to begin with it just almost impossible to avoid from them. I also ruled out School Days too because the hype and meme based off from its last episode, which got bigger fanbase than actual show itself.

The same thing also happened in video games as well as most gamers tend to avoid playing FPS games just because they hate Call of Duty series but at same time they also some "smarter" FPS games that are completely different than CoD like my personal favorites like Borderlands and Bioshock Infinite which are completely different than CoD like having better plot and RPG elements. I have no idea how many people missed such good games just because of that mentality.

In anime most people, especially shoujo fans avoid watching and reading anything "harem" or any shounen/seinen romance just because they thought it must have a lonely, nerdy boy who afraid of girls got surrounded by beautiful girls for no obvious reasons. This reminds me the failure of Boys Be, which offer completely different experience than Love Hina(which is famous to Japanese and non-Japanese anime viewers). It's not a harem but rather good romance and drama show for boys but it was forgotten because people wanted more something like Love Hina.

I really hate to say this but I just think female viewers are just as shallow as male ones. While I can't give an opinion about them(maybe not being female to begin with) but they tend to avoid anything shounen and seinen just because failed to deliver what they wants like romance and bishies. In fact there's a poor shoujo show that failed to get the attention from shoujo fans like Maria-sama ga Miteru. Ironically it was men who formed of most its fanbase in the West maybe because it had lots of girls and little to no male characters. Meanwhile most female viewers tend to hate or at least avoided it since it lack of romance and bishies and not to mention there's some canon lesbians in that show too.

In Japan, at least from claims of other people, girls and women are more likely to read and watch materials usually aimed towards boys and men but in the West, at least from my observation, boys and men are more likely to read and watch materials usually aimed towards girls and women. Please don't take these words too seriously as these are just an euphemism, sort of.

[mistress_kisara]

^I think posts in this thread just meant that women can like shounen/seinen, and men can like shoujo, Josei

[Joyce_Steele]

Originally Posted by mistress_kisara

^I think posts in this thread just meant that women can like shounen/seinen, and men can like shoujo, Josei

Did you mean "gender neutral" shounen/seinen like Hanasaku Iroha or "gender neutral" shoujo/josei like Chihayafuru? Unfortunately most anime fans, both Japanese and English-speaking ones are more interested on shits(yes they are) like High School dxd and Utau no Prince-sama than shows I mentioned earlier. Both genre and demographics had both gold and shit and same time but what makes me annoyed is people are more interested on sex-selling shits of both genres/demographics than "gender neutral" or at least having minimal fanservice shows.

By the way I also agree with Kameruka on MariMite. It is really sad to see it was men watching it despite being a shoujo. I deliberately not to compare it with Pretty Cure series which just a Japanese equivalent of My Little Pony. Princess Nine also one of the unfortunate victim as well as it didn't have romance and bishies like countless of other shoujo shows including Sailormoon.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by Kameruka

Before I start pointing at major points I want to exclude hyper-popular shounen shows mostly from Jump! like Dragonball, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Hitman Reborn, Fairy Tail(not Jump! but still shounen) and etc. since their hype are too big to begin with. Unless you lived under a rock or not an anime fan to begin with it just almost impossible to avoid from them. I also ruled out School Days too because the hype and meme based off from its last episode, which got bigger fanbase than actual show itself.

Would Attack on Titan count? Because I see just as many female fans of that as I do male fans.

In anime most people, especially shoujo fans avoid watching and reading anything "harem" or any shounen/seinen romance just because they thought it must have a lonely, nerdy boy who afraid of girls got surrounded by beautiful girls for no obvious reasons. This reminds me the failure of Boys Be, which offer completely different experience than Love Hina(which is famous to Japanese and non-Japanese anime viewers). It's not a harem but rather good romance and drama show for boys but it was forgotten because people wanted more something like Love Hina.

How do you know why that show bombed? And not everyone wants something like Love Hina.

I really hate to say this but I just think female viewers are just as shallow as male ones. While I can't give an opinion about them(maybe not being female to begin with) but they tend to avoid anything shounen and seinen just because failed to deliver what they wants like romance and bishies.

I agree with what you did say about the female viewers...let's be honest, sex sells no matter what your gender is...but not every female fan avoids shonen/seinen because 'OH NOES NO BISHIES!'

Hell, I personally would rather watch something with action then straight up romance. Nothing wrong with either....but I find action-oriented series to have much stronger characters and to be better written then the romantic stuff.

Can we seriously get past the stereotype of female fans being either too into shojo or boy crazy fujioshi?

In fact there's a poor shoujo show that failed to get the attention from shoujo fans like Maria-sama ga Miteru. Ironically it was men who formed of most its fanbase in the West maybe because it had lots of girls and little to no male characters. Meanwhile most female viewers tend to hate or at least avoided it since it lack of romance and bishies and not to mention there's some canon lesbians in that show too.

It's not all 'ITS THE VIEWERS FAULT' either. It all depends on how the company chooses to market the series.

Sometimes, as I've seen throughout the years, the shows that get the most fan love are the shows that you least expect; there's a HUGE male following for Aria on the other anime site I've gone to.

In Japan, at least from claims of other people, girls and women are more likely to read and watch materials usually aimed towards boys and men but in the West, at least from my observation, boys and men are more likely to read and watch materials usually aimed towards girls and women. Please don't take these words too seriously as these are just an euphemism, sort of.

I know some male CLAMP fans who also love Azumanga Daioh and the Monogaratari series...which is as far from the spectrum as you can get.

I do apologize if I sounded a bit rough...