2014-05-11, 07:42 | Link #1941 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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though even considering that, I doubt it will really change anything or make homura reconsider. it'll just be a repeat of 1st season: homura being stubborn on solving the problem by herself on beating the superpowered enemy. and even then, that's assuming homura cantjust get rid of it with her current powers.
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2014-05-11, 08:22 | Link #1942 | |
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Homura still seems to have the mind of a human. Or, at least, the emotions of a human.
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Now this is just an idea I have. SoL might be the way it goes, though I honestly have a hard time imagining it now.
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2014-05-11, 09:35 | Link #1943 |
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she wont grow though, if there's no one there to push her to change...
if SoL worked, homura wouldnt have went this far... also if that were the case, then homura should have already freed madoka after her answer near the film ending. she's succeeded at what she wanted really, and was more or less acceptance of madoka's opposing views, which is another point of why I dont think madoka's a good choice. she really needs someone to go against her and knock some sense, which sayaka's the best candidate. other methods like brand new characters is possible though, but that's just like saying there could be another "god" out there like madoka to confront homura, so im not touching that theory.
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2014-05-11, 12:27 | Link #1944 | |
The True Culprit
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Homura finds out that there's a bunch of other Homuras (Moemura, Badassmura, Ribbonmura, etc) all running around with a portion of her powers and she can't just reality-warp them away. Cue a bunch of events. Not really appropriate for Homura's emotional narrative arc but hey, neat idea. I've also seen an idea where Homura realizes that Madoka needs a release valve for her selflessness, and figures "Hey I've made being a Magical Girl perfectly safe" so she lets Madoka become a normal one ala timeline 1. ...Except whenever her Soul Gem darkens too much, it cleans out and a guardian entity resembling Kriemheld Gretchen manifests and cleans up a situation for her, ala Sayaka/Oktavia. Then she learns from some other source somehow that the Law of Cycles is messed up and vows to try and find it's missing piece, not realizing it's herself. Cue parody of the "Moon Princess" plot from Sailor Moon.
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2014-05-11, 17:24 | Link #1945 | |
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2014-05-11, 17:30 | Link #1946 | |
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2014-05-11, 21:13 | Link #1947 |
The True Culprit
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Fanfiction.net mostly. The first one wasn't very good beyond that one idea, and the second one is still a rough draft on a cutting-room forum I go to (members only). I'll post links in the fanfic thread if anything comes of them.
Especially the second one.
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2014-05-12, 06:30 | Link #1949 | |
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this one I think: http://danbooru.donmai.us/pools/8178 well as it came from FF.net, its really hard to find good stuff there yet its the most likely place to find fics. ive heard of you guys already brainstorming the 2nd fanfic in either this thread or the fanfiction thread, will check that out once I find a link. btw, this page does a good sum up of my top feelings on the movie: http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1536802?pool_id=7616
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2014-05-16, 10:38 | Link #1950 | |
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so in another forum, I was able to express my thoughts and analysis on the movie... as well as why sayaka's the best for homura.
il just post it here (and perhaps sayaka's thread, maybe): Quote:
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2014-05-17, 03:43 | Link #1951 |
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I disagree that Homura would essentially ride roughshod over Madoka's views and opinions in any relationship they'd have - maybe I shouldn't, since that's basically what Homura does in this movie. But I feel like Madoka has a strong enough will and character that, if necessary, she could stand up for herself against Homura.
She'd do it in a very kind, sweet way, because she's Madoka, but the lass has a spine of iron. She beats Kyubey at his own game, after all.
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2014-05-17, 12:02 | Link #1952 | |
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we can already see actually how homura doesnt really follow or heed madoka's guidance. when she should be getting along and trying to honor madoka's wishes in past worlds, homura in the end just keeps on making madoka safe, when its not really what madoka would like. case in point the whole movie proved me right... that's one of the grips I have for her, in that she's really just into madoka cause madoka was her first friend, rather than being moved by madoka's whole character. and then she show puts it in positive light most of the time. the movie pretty much got my praise more for that one, really showing the destructive/unhealthy aspects of homura's feelings that the anime missed/failed to convey. a better way to see it is like this: does homura help the girls out due to her finding them good? or is it cause madoka wanted to keep them? but anyways, back on track with madoka... sure she got a backbone, just like other characters could if pushed, but as I said homura's gonna gets the last stance on the subject. madoka may push strongly and determined, but in the end I see homura gets the say for whether to go with madoka's preferences over her own judgement (which is keeping madoka safe), that madoka only wins if homura decides the danger is minimal enough. I dont really doubt that madoka could be strong and make strong decisions, I just see that homura would eclipse it in the end.
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2014-05-18, 10:55 | Link #1953 | |
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This raises a philosophical problem for Homura, however. The Madoka she knew and loved ultimately did not want the fate of becoming a magical girl. Madoka may have found a self-sacrificing solution that made her feel better about becoming a magical girl-god, but is this what she truly wanted? Homura was well aware that Madoka was the type to sacrifice herself for the good of others. Was Madoka truly happy with that outcome? If she wasn't, then Homura - quite possibly the only individual in the universe who could change things for Madoka - would be doing her friend a terrible disservice. Rebellion thus presents events that are open to interpretation. By "splitting" Madoka at the end, Homura was arguably attempting to allow Madoka to "have her cake and eat it too." That is, the "law of the cycle" remained in place (Madoka's solution to change fate) but Madoka also retained a physical presence in the world. Is this really what Madoka wanted? It's hard to say. "Madokami" seemed a bit disturbed by it, but it's not hard to believe that this outcome would be desirable to all of the Madokas whose transformations into witches were witnessed by Homura. It is under this interpretation that I take issue with your saying that Homura wasn't heeding Madoka's guidance, or honoring her wishes in previous timelines. Granted, that interpretation raises some interesting questions in itself. By passing through multiple timelines, Homura came to know more than anyone, including Kyubey. Yet when Madoka became a godlike presence she was able to see what Homura had, and more. Should Homura have still behaved as if she knew better than Madoka even as Madoka was in a godlike state? If "Madokami" was able to see everything, did this outcome of splitting by Homura represent consent on Madoka's part - that is, an admission that she wanted Homura to split her? All of that relies on the interpretation that Homura was continuing to try and save Madoka. The other series of interpretations views Homura as a changed character; someone who became more selfish, and possibly resentful. Homura's behavior during the final segments of Rebellion is unique and something that we didn't see during the series itself, nor in other parts of Rebellion. Yet the behavior does not make either interpretation (acting out of Madoka's interests vs. acting out of self-interest) seem more or less likely.
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2014-05-18, 11:30 | Link #1954 |
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Personally, I'm leaning towards one of the two following interpretations of Homura:
1. Out of a very sincere love and longing, Homura wanted Madoka back. And she wanted Madoka back in the world of the living, for two reasons - Honoring the mission she had spent so long fighting for, and also so that her and Madoka could enjoy a (relatively) normal happy life in the same school together. Given that this is what Homura wanted, she was prone to suggestion. In other words, she wanted to think that Madoka wasn't happy as Madokami, because this would give her the justification needed to do what she did in the final quarter of the movie. What Madoka said in the flower fields scene gave Homura precisely what she wanted, and enabled her to act on her desires. However, I think the following chain of events then occurs... a) Madokami briefly panics and protests at what Homura is doing. Homura feels instant guilt over that, causing her to act a bit like a villain. b) After regaining her bearings, Homura wants to resolve this new-found guilt, and so poses the "Law or Desires" question to Madoka, desperately hoping that Madoka will pick "Desires". Homura has this profound look of sadness, and tears in her eyes, shortly after Madoka answers "Law". I think this is a Homura that feels deep moral regret over what she's done. However... c) Homura feels it's too late to turn back now. She intends to make the best out of this situation, and she thinks that if Madoka ever regains her memories that her and Madoka will be enemies. Homura hates that idea, and so will stave off the return of Madokami as long as possible. 2. At some level, Homura is resentful of what happened in the final timeline. She is resentful that this girl that she went all-out trying to protect ended up becoming a magical girl anyway, and remains happy like that. Homura feels horribly used by Madoka, and then easily cast aside once Madoka achieves her wish. At some level, Homura may even feel that almost everything she has done for Madoka was sheer vanity. Homura is heartbroken and angry, angry with Madoka. She is almost like a lover spurned. So her heart is very tumultuous - Torn between a lingering but strong love for this hero that completely captured Homura's dedicated love, and a resentment for how this same girl used her and threw her away (as Homura sees it). How does Homura square this circle? How does she psychologically come to terms with both loving Madoka, and having deep resentment for her? She does so by, in her own mind, divorcing Madokami from Madoka. Homura wants to tear down Madokami, but also embrace Madoka. And so she does exactly that, while also doing her very best to split "the two". The "Law and Desires" question is Homura seeing if her splitting "the two" was a success. Madoka's answer, along with Madokami briefly reasserting herself, makes it clear that the split has not been a complete success. And so Homura is forced to realize that the Madokami she resents and the Madoka she loves is one and the same. And by making herself Madokami's enemy she is also Madoka's enemy. And that is devastating to Homura. And now she merely hopes that Madoka enjoys a normal human life while Homura does her best to stave off future conflict with Madoka/Madokami. Either way, Homura is a compelling tragic figure, in my view. Either way, it's not hard to feel sorry for her. But the exact nature of Homura's feelings for Madoka, and Homura's feelings about herself, can be a bit different given on which interpretation is the more correct one.
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2014-05-19, 05:33 | Link #1955 | |
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2014-05-19, 09:02 | Link #1956 |
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yes, homura's a tragic figure, just like the standard yandere. not really compelling for me though, at least until after the movie.
imma disagree with most of you guys and say that this was more of the unraveling of homura's true character, where her rather conflicted and confusing character/motives come all together to give it a complete view. that's also why I dont really feel bad for her, rather the one I feel bad would be the target of her love as madoka's only got a slight idea of it compared to several other protags who have realized the nature of their admirer(the ones that live anyway, those who didnt realize that the girl was yandere, well...) saying that, I also dont feel annoyed of homura like before anymore. as you can see from my huge quote above... almost close to fave, she certainly rose up in my list in madoka magica: old - sayaka > mami > kyouko > madoka > homura now - sayaka > homura > mami > kyouko > madoka
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2014-05-20, 12:08 | Link #1957 | |||
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And now, just as she gains a huge upper-hand for herself, just as she grabs "the brass ring" as it were, she now feels fundamentally at odds with Madoka, to the point where it's hard for me to imagine her and Madoka being friends, even as Madoka can now attend school without having to worry about the Puella Magi world. Quote:
That being said, I think this is also a somewhat broken Homura, who probably needs real help, psychologically-speaking. Quote:
Given Homura's willingness to make such a drastic and unnecessary change to Madoka's personal history, one can only wonder what other changes Homura might later make if she feels they're in Madoka's best interests. Madoka is now completely under the thumb of Homura. Madoka's life is no longer Madoka's own. Madoka now has a "Big Sister" that is even more controlling and fundamentally altering than what Orwell conceived of in 1984. Even if Homura's actions are far more caring/loving than those of "Big Brother", it is still a troubling state that Madoka now lies in, imo.
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2014-05-21, 08:44 | Link #1958 | |
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Consider what Homura went through. In her effort to change fate she relived one month of battles and tragedy for an unspecified number of cycles, but the amount might have added up to years. We viewers can only imagine what such a scenario must be like, but it's not a stretch to say that such an experience would change a person. For simply having that experience I interpret Homura as being godlike, herself. How could she possibly be close friends with Madoka (or any normal person) after having experienced something like that, though?
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2014-05-21, 08:57 | Link #1959 |
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^^ Just so you know, there was an interview with Madoka Magica's anime writer (Gen Urobuchi) where he was asked "How many time-loops did Homura go through?" His answer, IIRC, was "I don't know. Probably about 100" or something like that ("100" was definitely in the answer).
So some Madoka Magica fans have just been rolling with "100 time-loops". So 100 X a month and a bit... yeah, it's a long time. Several years. Homura's mental age would be somewhere in her 20s, with a full third or more of her entire life thus far dedicated to trying to save Madoka over and over and over again.
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2014-05-21, 09:47 | Link #1960 |
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I think 100 was not a whatever number figure, just non specfic enough to allow for more lopps to be used on gaiden materials , while still not high enough to make her disconnected an inhuman since butch's character still mature and grow even if they are on his 40s. if she was 1 thousand years old because fo the timeloops she could have the psyque of a 10 year old and fight like a skilled assassin.
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