Fate/stay night Episode 19 Discussion thread

[rpgman1]

Rumors persist around the Net that Fate/Stay Night had only 24 episodes. Wish there were more but those two may probably be special (like .hack//SIGN). Just look at ANN, look up Fate/Stay Night, and click on episodes.

[Darkside]

only 24 eps... and still no lancer... he better do something super heroic or something when he does come back to make up for 16 eps of no screentime >_<

[Alu]

Well.., it seems I arrived a bit late for the discussion regarding this episode; never the less, it has its positive sides..
( that meaning.., I won't have to spoil tag as much )
Anyway..

Starting from the begining..
Our last episode left us with a cliff-hanger as how the Saber vs Assassin fight would turn out, same for Kuzuki vs Shirou and Caster regarding Rin and Sakura.
So this in simple words just takes on where the previous left off.

We start off with more scenes of Saber vs Assasin, and at the same time Shirou vs Kuzuki; in which regarding the Saver vs Assassin one I'll have to say..; probably it has been mencioned aswell but.., I had the feeling that it went off very fast.

Despite the fact that in the previous episode they're fight scene was the highlight, it still just seemed like a continuation from they're first encounter on the steps of the Temple at night, not to mencione they still used alot of scenes from there to fill in this fight.
Never the less, the aspect that I mostely regret is that, neither Assassin or Caster where truly given the Time they'd deserve in the anime..
Thus.., in a vert short fight we see the end of a very cool guy and great character.
But still I kind of liked how it turned out.., Assassin's last words where pretty nice.., and I mostely belive he was defeated so easily after all because he was not able to fight at full strenght; since the sunseat was appearing and probably his mana was already very low.

On the other fight in this episode though.., Kuzuki vs Shirou was simply Outstanding !, Very well done animated.., in fact I belive I enjoyed watching it more then I did Gil.., to me this last part of the fight realy was the best of the episode.
And it was something I clearly was not expecting; Shirou is more and MORE starting to handle himself just as good as Archer.., and Rin still hasn't noticed it !

Anyway.., shortly after though, came what I, and I belive most where expecting.., the appearence of The King!
Gil toke the episode by storm.., in my eyes.., a quick appearence, delivered his message, placed Caster in her place and went off..,

Thus leaving all of wanting to see more of him next time ; also, his phrase was simply perfect aswell when he referes to Saber..
"That" belongs to me, The King!

So I guess regarding him, I wasn't dissapointed, we got to see aswell a massive Gate of Babylon, and later on then more important aspects regarding his existence.., clearly he will have a tremendous effect on the up-comming aspects of the story.

Poor Caster though.., as mencioned previously.., her death scene was pretty sad and touching aswell..
Altough as I said before a few lines back.., I belive we should have gotten to see more aspects of her, and also more detailed flashbacks of what happened in her original life which then drove her to take such actions as she did with her original master in this war; not to mencione her full potential at sorceressy was also not shown.

It was still able to give us an in-sight on her relation with Kuzuki though.., and the fact that we saw her die to save him.., even though he already had been wounded and was not showing it as not to make her sacrifice in vain; clearly shows us on how the two realy loved each other.
In the end.. Casters wish was fullfilled.., as she herself said..
Tragicaly.., never the less...

In conclusion though her arc went rather fast.., and we are still left up-in-the-air on aspects like the Rule Breaker and its effect on Saber.., and as why she dropped it in the end..
At this point regarding her arc I belive most would have chosen to have added more content to it.., but allas.. with only 24 episodes.., it would have probably been impossible..

Regarding the rest of the episode, I was pleased at Saber's description of Gil.., as to, now here are the foundations to start the last and final arc of the series.
Clearly it takes the "Fate" path.., and may very well end as such.., never the less though.., I have my hopes to see a bit more of HF regarding Ilya, and UBW regarding Shirou vs Archer.

Ilya though, which we did not see through this entire episode.., altough as shown in the preview of 20's, we will see her grabbing Shirou again
That and Saber with a Lion doll

Overall the animation was pretty good in this one, and despite the negative aspects I mencioned, overall it was a well acomplished episode; for I belive its postive aspects overcome the negative.

Now.., for the next ones..., Needs more Gil, and more Shirou fights !

Originally Posted by Darkside

only 24 eps... and still no lancer... he better do something super heroic or something when he does come back to make up for 16 eps of no screentime >_<

Trust me on this.., he will definitly show up before the story is done.., my guess is either on episode 21 or above.., but I am certain he will show up and have a tremendous effect on the story.
I just can't say more

[Hemisphere]

Originally Posted by KiraDouji

I have to disagree with your claim that katana were designed to fight calvary because, quite frankly, they weren't. They seldom go past 70cm in length, for one, and Kojiro doesn't weild one in the anime or very often in legend. His weapon of choice was a nodachi, which is 90cm or so and actually used in the way you described. And before you try to correct to "kodachi" that someone else mentioned either in this thread or another, the kodachi was his master's preferred weapon, not his. Yes he learned by way of the kodachi and katana, but his favored weapon was nodachi, it's the one he uses in the anime, and it's the one used to fell calvary.

I feel the need to point out, though, that aside from her breastplate and gauntlets, Saber isn't exactly heavilly armored. So if you're trying to say it'd be easier for Assissin to deal damage through the armor she's wearing rather than the thing the sword was designed to cut through, I agree. I just think we should all get as many facts straight as possible

- Kira

Tachi. What Assassin was using was a tachi. Used to cut off the legs of horses in battle.

And let's not argue about real-world weaponry to the omghax physics of anime.

Also, you can only see the bend of Assassin's sword in two scenes - Right after Assassin blocks Saber's initial slash and comments on it (you'll notice the bend very easily), and right before he pulls off Tsumabe Gaeshi (but not very much). In the scenes in between and after, his sword has magically gotten fixed again.

-_______________________________-;

[kamikazex]

epsode 21 is far far away...lol next next week

[Mirtual]

Originally Posted by Darkside

only 24 eps... and still no lancer... he better do something super heroic or something when he does come back to make up for 16 eps of no screentime >_<

Be fair ^^
Most off the characters up until now have been well made and most of them had a rather short screen time. They show up to kick ass some episodes and then get finished.
Maybe you should be happy Lancer did not get more screen time, because that would mean he would have met his end by now.

Originally Posted by Erhjegel

Tachi. What Assassin was using was a tachi. Used to cut off the legs of horses in battle.

And let's not argue about real-world weaponry to the omghax physics of anime.

Also, you can only see the bend of Assassin's sword in two scenes - Right after Assassin blocks Saber's initial slash and comments on it (you'll notice the bend very easily), and right before he pulls off Tsumabe Gaeshi (but not very much). In the scenes in between and after, his sword has magically gotten fixed again.

-_______________________________-;

I agree. I totally agree. Let's forget about real world weaponry and physics. THEY DO NOT APPLY IN ANIME.
And just be sound very smart I want to say that he used an Odachi (or Ôkinaru-Tachi). The Tachi is just about 10 cm longer than a Katana, but his was clearly over that size. And btw, those swords were usally used by the cavalry.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Alu

Trust me on this.., he will definitly show up before the story is done.., my guess is either on episode 21 or above.., but I am certain he will show up and have a tremendous effect on the story.
I just can't say more

Its common sense that Lancer shall make a return - or do you think he's moved away from Fuyuki to not be in the War? ^^;

[aldeayeah]

Originally Posted by Mirtual

Why didn't the rule breaker disapear? It fell to the ground... (why did no one get it...)

The only logical explanation I can find is that Caster's original master (that dead guy we don't know much about) already owned Rule Breaker and used it in the summoning process.

Just like Rin's pendant, which remained after Archer's death back in ep. 14, or Berserker's sword (which was shattered by Caliburn, so it didn't remain...)

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by aldeayeah

The only logical explanation I can find is that Caster's original master (that dead guy we don't know much about) already owned Rule Breaker and used it in the summoning process.

Just like Rin's pendant, which remained after Archer's death back in ep. 14, or Berserker's sword (which was shattered by Caliburn, so it didn't remain...)

Rule Breaker is Caster's Noble Phantasm ... I still think it was just done for effect. The slow falling of the knife; symbolic of yet another of Caster's losses as well as the losing of all purpose Souchirou had achieved in his life (he was pretty devoted to Caster).

[KiraDouji]

Originally Posted by Erhjegel

Tachi. What Assassin was using was a tachi. Used to cut off the legs of horses in battle.

I don't know where the hell you got that idea, but you're wrong. Tachi is used on horseback, for one, not to fell calvary from the ground. It predates the katana, btw, which was a learning tool for Kojiro. The kodachi, which his master used was a later form of it and Kojiro is most well known for being able to master a nodachi in duelling scenerios. And lastly, it's usual length is too short for the blade shown in the anime. We're talking 78cm versus 90.

Why am I arguing this? Because you're saying it wasn't a nodachi, but it was a tachi... this makes absolutely no flipping sense. The tachi category includes nodachi and oodachi. So if it's not a nodachi, it's certainly not a tachi :P Furthermore, the nodachi is an extended tachi, meaning it is a longer/larger form of the original sword and thus needs to be specified.

I'm not arguing physics, btw. Someone originally posted erroneous information concerning Kojiro and his favored blade and I was correcting it. I understand that some people dislike seeing people have "I know more about this than you" arguments, however I believe it's best to have them and walk away knowing the truth of things than to perpetuate false information. Anyone could go look this stuff up, but most people won't. Most people will just repeat what they read without validating it. I'd rather have them repeat the truth.

- Kira

[Hemisphere]

Being corrected when my info's wrong, I don't mind it. Just means I have to look up things more.

As for Rule Breaker dropping after Caster's death, maybe Shirou's there to trace it and stab Saber for what reason I dunno.

Saber: Shirou, I finally got my wish granted for the Grail!
Shirou: Oh no you don't. *stabs Saber with Rule Breaker*

[Alu]

Originally Posted by Erhjegel

As for Rule Breaker dropping after Caster's death, maybe Shirou's there to trace it and stab Saber for what reason I dunno.

Saber: Shirou, I finally got my wish granted for the Grail!
Shirou: Oh no you don't. *stabs Saber with Rule Breaker*

I realy don't belive so.., much like PhantomX previously said :

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Rule Breaker is Caster's Noble Phantasm ... I still think it was just done for effect. The slow falling of the knife; symbolic of yet another of Caster's losses as well as the losing of all purpose Souchirou had achieved in his life (he was pretty devoted to Caster).

I also belive it to be purely for the effect..

Thing that gets me though.., is still the Rule Breakers "true effect" on Saber..
For at start Caster says that she will not be able to user her sword, and shortly after that we even see some sort of static flash running through Saber's body.
Altough after in the next episode we still see her using ExCalibur..

Some mencioned that maybe it just disabled her wind enchantment that served to conceal the sword.., but that option sounds a bit unprobable because vs Kuzuki previously she no longer had ExCalibur invisible.

Others mencioned that maybe the effect of the Rule Breaker was to nulify the full power of ExCalibur.., as she could not use the "One Slash" as she used vs Rider.

Altough regarding this.., in this episode we see her summon power to Excalibur during her fight vs Assassin.., which I also belive was something that helped her to win that fight.

A bit more in front when she confronts Caster though, Caster tells her that she will not be able to stand against her because due to the effect of beeing stabbed with the Rule Breaker.

Leads me to ponder if the Rule Breaker was simply to make her unable to defeat Caster.., as give Caster a special protection, in which, if she stabbed anyone with the dagger, that someone would not be able to use any Noble Phantasm vs her.

Thus.., having Caster been defeated, I recon any effects the Rule Breaker have now dissapeared ?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Alu

Thus.., having Caster been defeated, I recon any effects the Rule Breaker have now dissapeared ?

i hope not...i want to see how saber struggles against gil without her Noble Phantasm...also without her Noble Phantasm i believe that saber would not be able to beat gil and in that i hope that we get to see shriou's reality marble...unlimited blade works!!! lets see how gil deals with thousands of swords that shirou is gona create to throw at him i bet he wont like it one bit...

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

i hope not...i want to see how saber struggles against gil without her Noble Phantasm...also without her Noble Phantasm i believe that saber would not be able to beat gil and in that i hope that we get to see shriou's reality marble...unlimited blade works!!! lets see how gil deals with thousands of swords that shirou is gona create to throw at him i bet he wont like it one bit...

Saber without her Noble Phantasm would get pwnt ... seeing as Gil hasn't even unleashed his most powerful yet XD

I also would like to see UBW vs. GoB, and we can't rule it out, since they've been showing exponential fighting skill growth on the part of Shirou. The only thing is that Shirou wouldn't be throwing them, he'ld be wielding thme (shooting a bunch of weapons is reserved for the King )

[gammaoh]

Well, Shirou/Archer did summon a rain of swords to counter GoB in UBW...

[Mirtual]

Originally Posted by gammaoh

Well, Shirou/Archer did summon a rain of swords to counter GoB in UBW...

But he still wielded them and did not shoot them at his opponent. Or at least I was under that impression.
And is it even proven yet that Shirou is Archer?

[Darkside]

Maybe we will get to see some UBW considering when Archer did it, they didn't show us anything of what happened inside... I'd like to see a fight held inside of UBW.

Unlimited Saber Works ^^

[MartianMage]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe archer also showered caster using his UBW in UBW scenario? I haven't played the game but that's what I know. Anyway if I'm correct then Archer/Shirou can also perform a GoB like attack.

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe archer also showered caster using his UBW in UBW scenario? I haven't played the game but that's what I know. Anyway if I'm correct then Archer/Shirou can also perform a GoB like attack.

Hmm ... that would certainly explain this cg.

Spoiler:

I was wondering how that could happen since I thought UBW involved them wielding their swords ... but you cleared that up nicely

[Darkside]

actually i guess it makes sense... the UBW attack in that Fatal/Fate game showers your opponent with swords while you fight as long as you're in UBW mode