2015-12-31, 19:47 | Link #3203 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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I just found out (from someone who reviewed the book) that the KizuMonogatari translators put Araragi's famous phrase as “Making friends would lower my intensity as a human,” as opposed to the "...means that my strength as a human will decrease."
After watching Ougi Formula, though, where we learn about the incident that led Araragi to start using this phrase as a pretext for isolating himself, I don't think either of those translations really captures what I feel he meant. I'm not sure if I can explain it that well, so I was wondering what some of you thought, especially those of you who can read the original Japanese novels? (if you're still around, that is)
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2016-01-01, 05:06 | Link #3204 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Translator of Kizu, here. The translation I used is If you make friends, your strength as a human will decrease. Omimon might have translated that differently before me.
The original motto is 友達はいらない 人間強度が下がるから. "強度", literally meaning "degree of strength" (translated as "strength" or "intensity" by my vocabulary), is a word that doesn't have any practical meaning associated with the word human, but one could guess what it means on a figurative level. Probably it could have a better translation, but at this point I don't translate anymore. |
2016-01-01, 06:24 | Link #3205 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Thanks for replying. But what I'm actually curious about is what you think he meant figuratively.
I read your translation back in the day -- before Vertical licensed it and it was taken down -- and I did understand that 強度 is not normally associated with 'people' in the way that Araragi has used it. I looked it up myself when I translated Hyakumonogatari 4-5 years ago, and I remember reading some Japanese fans suggesting that he meant something like "if I make friends, I'll be weak because they can be used against me." And I thought it was fine at the time...but that doesn't really fit with the incident that triggered it, which we find out about in Ougi Formula. I have a hypothesis as to what he actually meant, but I wanted to ask first if anyone else had changed their mind about it after reading Ougi Formula.
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Last edited by karice67; 2016-01-01 at 06:52. |
2016-01-01, 06:56 | Link #3206 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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In Nisemonogatari we found out Araragi's parents are cops. I assumed he meant that if someone misbehaves the law must punish him, but by making friends with other people it is going to be harder to police them.
I assumed Araragi was aiming to become a cop like his parents, so he was preparing himself to a life of loneliness. |
2016-01-01, 08:20 | Link #3207 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
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It's not like I have always had this thought. I just thought up, but......
Maybe, it's better not to try to connect "人間強度が下がるから"(not including "友達はいらない") to the incident. He first used the motto in Kizumonogatari when Hanekawa asked a reason of not making any friends, but I think "人間強度が下がるから" is just his Chunibyou-like excuse, or more like fake, playing dumb because he didn't have any intention to tell the real reason to anyone. The incident was something he never wanted to talk about. Of course, in front of Ougi, the nemesis of lies and faking-ups, it was futile. To be honest, I doubt even Nisioisin thought about the reason of Araragi getting the motto (IOW, the story of Ougi Formula) when he was writing Kizu. Or I underestimate Nisio too much? (Kizu published in 2008, Owari(Part 1) published in 2013) Anyway the link here may be more helpful than my thought. All three answers are convincing for each. http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...l/q11151084956 |
2016-01-02, 01:50 | Link #3208 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Personally, I really didn't think too deeply about it until Ougi Formula -- I just took it at face value, figuring that it was just part of his Chuunibyou period (like you've said, Kamieichi).
But after Ougi Formula, I couldn't help thinking that what he meant by 「人間強度」is related to his ideal that what distinguishes humans from other beings is that they do what is 'right'. And that if humans just go along with each other, then making friends would lower his ability to do what he knows is right because he'd want to go along with them too. Or something along those lines. 「人間強度が下がる」 does sound very Chuunibyou, and it does feel like something he might have thought up as an excuse to get Hanekawa off his back in Kizumonogatari. But even if that is the case, I don't think it diminishes the feelings he had behind it all that much, that sense of despair he claims to have felt from finding out that 'There is no such thing as righteousness: rather, what is right is simply what the majority feels to be right'. But I'm really not sure how that fits with the later notion that "even if one's 「人間強度」 goes down, it's better to make friends," so I'm not dismissing other interpretations of it... I'm also not sure whether Nisio would have thought through Araragi's saying that deeply when he first wrote it for Kizu. The only way to know would be to ask him directly, I would think... But don't most writers have a broad picture of what drives their characters before they're able to really write them? Like, if Nisio had decided that Araragi was a loner, then he'd have developed a reason for him to be a loner, even if the finer details of why he became one are kicked down the track, so-to-speak. Quote:
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2016-01-02, 02:03 | Link #3209 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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I think "ningen kyoudou" can instead be interpreted as being "more or less human". In this case, 「人間強度が下がる」means "being less human". Remember Yotsugi's reminder in Tsukimonogatari (i.e. Yotsugi not wanting Koyomi to be a monster by killing Tadatsuru herself)? I feel that it's related to that.
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2016-01-06, 15:36 | Link #3211 | |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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Quote:
But then that does make one wonder why no one ever used it to revive the god of the Shirahebi shrine. Spoiler:
Last edited by Altima of the Gates; 2016-01-07 at 11:45. |
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2016-01-07, 19:37 | Link #3212 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The forest or any tree really
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Seems like for Waza it will have a Hanekawa and Karen pov as well.
Didn't notice the spoiler, woops sorry Altima. Feel silly making the same post as someone before me. Anyway this is what you meant right? Last edited by DeliriousEagle; 2016-01-10 at 09:37. Reason: Silly mistake |
2016-01-14, 05:06 | Link #3215 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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It is the "Undo" button. It doesn't resurrect, it undo the killed state caused by its sister blade. So basically if you change your mind after killing a monster, you can reverse it.
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2016-01-17, 10:00 | Link #3220 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The forest or any tree really
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Quote:
Spoiler for Findings:
Probably in the future of more of a summary from someone. I honestly hope its beyond the timeline of Hana as that would make things interesting. Makes me wonder where is Nisio going with this. Part of me hopes Araragi loses his humanity, though that is what I would like to see. I always had somewhat of a dislike how Araragi tries to be human while always staying Vamp. Either way, interesting times ahead. Spoiler for Nip sum:
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Tags |
adventure, comedy, fantasy, harem, nishio, romance |
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