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View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 24 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 2 | 10.53% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 2 | 10.53% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 2 | 10.53% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 7 | 36.84% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 5 | 26.32% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 5.26% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll |
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2016-09-13, 22:19 | Link #101 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Tempester is right the show doesn't need more episodes when it wasted almost the whole second half of the show doing nothing. They should have used their time better.
Honestly, sometimes anime staff seem to take the most irrational decisions.
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2016-09-13, 23:25 | Link #103 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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As for Delta itself…so far, this gotta be amongst my least-favorite Macross series in the franchise, all things considered. IMO the writing is just all over the place. I honestly prefer SDF's lackluster last-third than Delta's. I doubt the last 2 episodes will change my opinion that much, but I’m still open for some nice surprises. Btw, is the success of a Macross series really mainly depends on BD/DVD and music single/album sales?
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2016-09-14, 01:24 | Link #105 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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*edit* BTW, am I the only one who was thinking of the "Run away! Run away!" scene from Monthy Python and the Holy Grail when Chaos did their retreat from Windermere?
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Last edited by magnuskn; 2016-09-14 at 02:08. |
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2016-09-14, 02:19 | Link #106 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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And yeah, they seem to want to resolve everything in the finale which is a terrible choice. Oh and the 'war' was completely dropped, wasn't it? Nobody even spoke about it during the trial (the war in the cluster yes, but nothing beyond the same old ). I'm still waiting for Mirage's ugly pet as final villain reveal. Freyja's phone can be the sidekick minion.
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Last edited by Thess; 2016-09-14 at 02:30. |
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2016-09-14, 03:13 | Link #107 | ||
(☞゚∀゚)☞ロンパアアアア!!
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Spoiler for offtopic:
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2016-09-14, 06:22 | Link #108 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If you want to hate Windermere monarch, hate Gramia. What was his excuse for his poor judgment and bad choices in advisors (whom his son inherited)? Gramia was a horrible king and father. Heinz merely failed to be some kind of impossible genius. Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2016-09-14 at 15:01. |
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2016-09-14, 10:07 | Link #109 |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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...am I the only one who thought the first cour had all the complexity of a Michael Bay movie? I mean it was definitely fun but it was still really shallow to me.
I dunno why but I was so annoyed about Makina being shot. Too much cheap drama involving underdeveloped characters, I guess. |
2016-09-14, 10:52 | Link #110 | |
An... Historian OOOH-
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nyan Nyan's
Age: 37
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2016-09-14, 10:56 | Link #111 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Michal Bay is a good comparison, and I personally don't see it as a criticism. I think Macross works best when it's just silly fun stuff. If there's something wrong with the show's second half, it's that it couldn't keep up with that rush of fun from the first half. It became dull, stale.
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2016-09-14, 11:06 | Link #112 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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Thanks, Natsu. The claim that Deltas music sells better than Frontiers ever did seemed totally preposterous to me, but I didn't have the numbers.
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2016-09-14, 11:25 | Link #114 | |
green hair, don't care
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: under my covers
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It doesn't bother you that he has no morals? That the deaths of people around him have absolutely no affect on him? That he has questioned absolutely nothing of the adults' decisions? Made no effort to use his authority as a means of getting answers? Ignorance may not be a crime, but conduct arising from ignorance is |
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2016-09-14, 11:44 | Link #115 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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I don't want to dwell on previous entries in the franchise but Delta has just felt hollow to me in comparison. I dunno. |
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2016-09-14, 12:07 | Link #116 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: United States
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I don't know about bad characters though, because like I've said prior, characters like Roid, Keith, Hayate and Freyja all received good development within their universe; other characters (like Mirage and Chuck) did not. Those are only examples, of course, I'm positive other characters developed. However, the comparison is flipped: while Delta has good characters with potential, it's lacking the basics for a Macross because of its overachieving plot which has buried everything which is Macross into a big hole. Of course, like Tokyo Drift, this could be a test; like they're seeing what not to do for future Macross'. After all, I don't think Tokyo Drift could hold a candle to the amount of subplots Delta has... |
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2016-09-14, 12:24 | Link #117 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Children start to developing "morals" (what you understand as morals, anyway) around 12 years old when they start to be less self-focused (and comes with abstract thinking developing to boot). There's a reason why armies started indoctrinating child soldiers on Heinz's age group. Because they are malleable and would do as trusted adults say. At that age, the sense of morality they have is about the rules of the immediate environment. So yes, only Windermere laws and rules and justice and fairness which is what he's displaying and following. According to Piaget and other researchers, children between the ages of 5-6 to 10-12 see the world through what's called a "Heteronomous Morality". Meaning that children think that authority figures (parents, teachers, guardians: aka Roid, Gramia, Keith) have rules that they (children) must follow absolutely. Rules are thought of as real, unchangeable guidelines rather than evolving, negotiable, or situational ones, by the way. Only when they grow older and develop more abstract thinking, children become capable of forming more flexible rules and applying them selectively for the sake of shared objectives and a desire to co-operate. Heinz is 9-10 years old. He has a heteronomous morality. It's kind of child psychology 101. You're asking him to rebel and stuff which is unrealistic for his age (it would be expected in a few more years). Secondly, in the first half of the show Heinz had doubts and hesitated about what he should do but Keith, Gramia and later Roid pretty much gave him a speech about WINDERMERE JUSTICE, DO THIS (and die for it), so he's pretty much doing exactly as they told him to do (including the dying part to Keith's horror ). They laid down the rules. It's Freyja's word against... uh his dead dad's and beloved brother's? I mean I love Freyja, but while she planted the idea and Heinz did question about songs and music (which is good), he's not going to suddenly go against his father's will unless he learns: 1) Roid lied about being his father's will; 2) Keith finally speaks his goddamn mind and voices he's against this (which we know he is, but he doesn't speak up). He needs someone of his circle actually being against this and that they informed it (Neither Cassim and Herman actually told him their suspicion and dislike for the turns of events). Frankly speaking I'm impressed that, despite the bad writing is rampant in the second half, they are portraying a child in power as... an actual child in power. They aren't trying to moralize or make him more mature and ready to deal with this impossible situation correctly because that's unrealistic. It's not an adult in a little boy package as you all seem expecting, it's a child. It's not really a matter of temper and personality, it's about how your brain develops at that stage. Saying all this it doesn't mean that Windermere leadership is ah-Okay, but Heinz is not responsible for it. He's a victim of child abuse which I doubt will ever get acknowledged.
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Last edited by Thess; 2016-09-14 at 12:48. |
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2016-09-14, 13:01 | Link #118 | |
Speedy Sea Cucumber
IT Support
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia
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I know you're a fan of the pairing but I'm sort of resentful for how much Hayate and Freyja were IMO shoved in our face when they could have been doing pretty much anything with the enormous cast they assembled. Everything about Delta is sort of mismatched; its just bizarre in the grand scheme. Anyway, if people are able to appreciate it on the level of summer movie popcorn fun I guess I can respect that but I'm definitely not one of those people. |
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2016-09-14, 13:14 | Link #119 |
Pew Pew Pew!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buttfuck Nowhere, Canada
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I dodged last episode cus it was so bad that I hid at the Tak boards for a while...
But man...Episode 24 is god awful, and it's frankly not so much because of the Windermereans (which is a part of it...but as I've mentioned in the other board I just...can't take their stupid system seriously anymore. They literally made up a halfassed version of their preexisting judicial system for the main trio because they're not technically PoW) but just straight up how pointless these scenes continue to be. We literally learned nothing new about anyone at the trial and...I'm sorry, I continue to have severe problems with how the main trio are acting. I understand that the Windermeres are shit heads, but they're also incredibly boxed in on their planet's understanding of things. For a trio claiming there's more outside of the planet it continues to bother me how bad they are at communicating that thought outside of being spectacularly rude. I get they are kids, but that only makes the issue more annoying because they keep using talking points that talk a far bigger game. It's as convenient as the Bumpkin Defense. I also continue to struggle with the fact that Freyja never seems to know how to act appropriately with her own people, it's almost like their cultures aren't even the same. We also hear nothing about Wright. Sigh. Also...as Hayate is walking off the cliff he just believes there's a chance he won't die??? He then tells Mirage to protect Freyja but it's like...how??? HOW?????????? NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE. And really? Hayate doesn't want to tarnish Freyja's song with blood? Speak to the eye you took from Keith. This is such whitewashing bullshit that i just don't even. Just because you failed to kill Keith doesn't mean you weren't trying. He shot ALL THE WAY ALONG his machine to the cockpit after Keith quick drawed his blaster. Fucking hell. AND YOU KNOW WHAT. YOU DID THAT UNDER HEAVY INFLUENCE OF FREYJA'S SONG, SO THIS IS LITERAL AND UTTER HORSE BLOODY SHIT. Let's also completely forget the VAR syndrome situation you were just in. God I hate Hayate. Everything you say is so beyond the realms of stupidity. The talk about Herman rivalry is still bothering me too. Just because a guy wants a younger pilot to fly well doesn't make him their rival...Herman had already been established as the sort who likes to teach...it's basically one of the few consistent things that still remain. On the other hand...everything that doesn't involve the main characters has still been stellar. It's just sad that we have to wade through so much crap to reach it. Mikumo's arc, CHAOS and the lot is still pretty interesting, and her song is incredibly pretty, though Makina getting shot remains trite. I feel it's made worse by the subs of the song they're singing which is so in your face about the narrative that it may as well be subpar disney. |
2016-09-14, 13:41 | Link #120 | |
green hair, don't care
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: under my covers
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Prior to this episode, I would have agreed with you. I was even on the Windermere's side. It was until this episode that I thought Windermere as a whole was the victim. But Freyja opened my eyes. She doesn't want war. I don't believe the the rest of the civilians want to go through this. Their lives are short enough. When I blame Heinz, I'm not ignoring everyone else's crimes. No doubt it's because of them he ended up this way. But you don't automatically excuse someone's crimes and wrongdoings because of bad experiences. Heinz is no typical 9 year old. And I really doubt child psychology could work here due to the unique nature of Windermere lifespan, not to mention all studies are but theories so far. (also googled it and it's definitely not as late as 12) My issue is that Heinz is not completely blameless. If you're explaining why he does what does, I get it, but that doesn't free him from all responsibility. |
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