(L) Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? [WN]

[bakapervert]

Originally Posted by EvilSociopath323

About my statement that Kumo is right now on easy mode. I think it still stands. I said it in the context that someone complained about Rimuru being too OP and that this isn't the case for Kumo in the present continuous tense. Besides D and Kuro no one is a match for her in a fight which makes her OP same or even more than Rimuru. That she has clones that do a lot of work hardly changes anything about that. The load of work she's capable of doing is huge, impossible to do for most even but it's quite manageable for her. 'Easy' is a relative term. To a human it might be hard to lift a 1 ton heavy boulder but not to a DBZ saiyan. Kumo lost any sense of impeding danger or actual challenge. In the context of a shounen it went into easy mode. You can't say that it still has an edge over slime in that aspect. The author decided to abandon the shounen setting of getting stronger and started something entirely different. Yes, probably to avoid inflation typical for such shows.

Trying to advocate a different series on a kumo forum is probably a bad idea. But I thought it to be a waste that Kumo didn't have that moment where she wasn't quite at the top yet but she got to be one of the big shots. Like you know, Rimuru and that meeting with other demon lords, his interaction with the big shots in general. Slime handles being strong better. It's more fun. Kumo hides and plans while Rimuru is someone with a very direct approach.

Hmm, for me it's not the matter whether the current situation is in easy mode or not. It's about what the character will do when they are put in hard mode. Shiro has proof herself as certifiable badass by kicking ass when she was a small.fry put inside hell. While it was still unclear whether Slime can do the same if he was put into the same situation. That's why for me I respect Shiro more compared to Slime no matter what their current power level is.

[EvilSociopath323]

^^ point taken.

[Amuris]

Originally Posted by J4n1

One problem with other world rebirth/summoning stories with OP MC's is that the conflict (or parts of them) are often something that could be solved just by taking a hammer to it.
And the MC just won't.
For no real discernible reason.

In Kumo, the conflict comes from exactly how Shiro can't just hammer the world into a shape she wants to, because it's not that kind of problem.
And the parts of the conflict she can just brute force, she does.

I would say that's the problem half the time. The other half it's the opposite. They run around solving all their problems by taking a hammer to it and, yeah, if your used to hetare protag's you would think this is good for awhile...but just hearing about how they run around and easily solve everything with force or ill-won cheats gets dull. With Kumo, there's always some kinda tension. It might be that she's fighting for her life or the circumstances put some emotional strain on her and those around her but there is always tension.

@Asuka
That doesn't really make her a hermaphrodite. It's just one of those things some female spiders can do.

[J4n1]

Having the MC just abuse overpowered abilities (they often got purely out of dumb luck) to easily solve all their problems is boring.
Watching OP MC not use their powers to solve problems when they could gets annoying.

Kumo avoids both problems.

[erneiz_hyde]

I don't know about easy mode, but I do feel that after Apotheosis you don't get to experience the kind of tension when Kumo was still in the labyrinth anymore.

[Amuris]

wow, only just notice manga chapters 13-2 and 13-3.

Kumo: "I am the one who eats!"

[kari-no-sugata II]

I guess one way to describe the changes since the start would be like this: At the start, almost everything could kill her but she was only responsible for herself and things were simple - it was pretty much just kill, eat, train, sleep. Now, almost nothing can kill her but she's directly responsible for a number of people and indirectly responsible for a huge number and meddling with the fate of the world.

Our little spider has grown up in many ways. Personally, I'm very happy that the overall plot has been planned, that there's lots of depth etc. No matter how good it is, more of the same eventually gets boring.

She still has a tendency to put her foot in it though - it's just that now she has two feet instead of eight

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I don't know about easy mode, but I do feel that after Apotheosis you don't get to experience the kind of tension when Kumo was still in the labyrinth anymore.

I've said before that my favourite fight is probably the monkey one (where the manga currently is). I find it to have the most tension and it's also quite innovative.

I enjoy the fights but I'm glad that the nature and style of the fights changed and now she's dealing with very different sorts of problems. In a way, she's working on a "quest" given to her by D, but even as a god it's taking more than 15 years to complete.

[K2Grey]

The monkey fight is a great one but my favorite is Alaba. I was floored when he spent his life savings / skill points.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by K2Grey

The monkey fight is a great one but my favorite is Alaba. I was floored when he spent his life savings / skill points.

That was a great "oh shit" moment. It was also the fight that best showcased Appraisal-sama.

It's also great how it showcases Kumoko's personality, particularly her pride. In those terms, it was the most awesome fight.

[J4n1]

The tension of impending doom Kumo was under almost constantly did go away once she became Shiro, because now the nature of conflict was not about survival, and unless the elves pull something pretty drastic out of their collective asses (and they just might), there is little to no change Shiro is in any personal danger.

So i can see why some people might not like it if they were a fan of Kumoko's culinary journey through the great labyrinth.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by J4n1

The tension of impending doom Kumo was under almost constantly did go away once she became Shiro, because now the nature of conflict was not about survival, and unless the elves pull something pretty drastic out of their collective asses (and they just might), there is little to no change Shiro is in any personal danger.

There's several ways we could break this down but one way would be like this:
Chapters 1-88 (until Zoa Ere): almost everything can kill her if she's not careful. I'm tempted to try to divide this up more but it's hard picking a particular event that's especially significant.

88-148 (until Zana Horowa): rapid growth phase, huge increase in all stats, Patience and Wisdom (particularly teleportation) all combine to make her extremely hard to kill.

148-200 possibly impossible to kill by any conventional force, and almost impossible for any unconventional force by the time she picks up the Spawning trick. Probably only way to kill her within the System would be to combine Divine Dragon Barrier (which could probably prevent Kumoko from sending herself to an egg, going by LN4) and Abyss Magic to completely destroy her body. ie only realistic threat within the System would be from Ariel. Maybe Dimensional Magic could be used to kill her as well if she cannot react to it in time.

201+ only known threat on the world that has a realistic chance of killing her is Kuro, hence she's careful to try to not push things too far with him while also preparing for a potential show-down with him (which may not even happen). It seems that Dimensional Magic could injure her but it's hard to say how much of a threat it really is - Shiro takes even extremely low probably threats seriously. I don't think we can ignore the threat from Potimas (elf technology) - if Shiro thinks that Dimensional Magic is worth being careful about then I think we should take them seriously. After all, they did setup a huge Dimensional Magic attack on D. However, Shiro has hinted that she can survive even if her current "main body" is destroyed - ie she probably has a godly version of her spawning trick (or something similar) which may well allow her to survive attacks that would kill Kuro.

It could be said that becoming god didn't actually change that much, in terms of threats to her life - mainly that Ariel is no longer a threat and she can escape the planet.

So i can see why some people might not like it if they were a fan of Kumoko's culinary journey through the great labyrinth.

Maybe that would have been enough for me once but it's much more satisfying to see real change, to see new themes, to delve deeper into the characters and the world, to have interesting plots with a satisfying resolution and so on.

A lot can change just based on how much you've read. The first time I read a shoujo manga was like 20 years ago and it felt fresh and original at the time but if I go back and read it now it feels quite cliche for the most part.


PS I might have something for you guys to read tonight

[J4n1]

Personally, for me Kumo has just gotten better over time, and i rather like Shiro to whom destroying nations is childs play, but havingt a conversation is an epic struggle.
Though the story kinda needs to early parts for her character to make sense, to build up the world and the characters.

But i do see how some might not like the change.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

There's several ways we could break this down but one way would be like this:
Chapters 1-88 (until Zoa Ere): almost everything can kill her if she's not careful. I'm tempted to try to divide this up more but it's hard picking a particular event that's especially significant.

i would put a break at aftermath of the Monkey War. She had her 2nd evolution, pick up new skills and became ruler of Pride. Up till then Kumo has always either ran away or attack form ambushes. After the Monkey battle she act more like a apex predator.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Translation for the non-WN chapter "Autumn-leaf Viewing" is up at the usual place.

Took a while but finally done.

Originally Posted by J4n1

Personally, for me Kumo has just gotten better over time, and i rather like Shiro to whom destroying nations is childs play, but havingt a conversation is an epic struggle.
Though the story kinda needs to early parts for her character to make sense, to build up the world and the characters.

But i do see how some might not like the change.

Yeah, we definitely need the early stuff. Else it'd feel unearned and not nearly so fascinating as a contrast. The early stuff is good by itself too of course.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i would put a break at aftermath of the Monkey War. She had her 2nd evolution, pick up new skills and became ruler of Pride. Up till then Kumo has always either ran away or attack form ambushes. After the Monkey battle she act more like a apex predator.

Yeah, if I was breaking it down by different stages in the overall story then I would have put in a break there. But I was doing it more from the aspect of how much danger (risk of death) Kumoko/Shiro is in and I would say that Pride didn't have much of an immediately impact in that regard. Zoa Ere gives Kumoko a big immediate boost (4x or so in most status values) and it puts her well out of the reach of small fry like the frog - as a Poison Taratekt her status values weren't that different from the frog except for speed.

[FormerLurker]

New tl chapter up. Despite nothing of importance happening, it was still an interesting chapter regardless. It does reveal more background information on the class. For instance, it does show a more normal side of natsume kengo that we've previously never seen. More background was also revealed regarding Yamada and friends.

[kari-no-sugata II]

I announced it in the post above

(Maybe it was too subtle...?)

A few thoughts:

Shun seems to be somehow lucky or in right place at right time. I dunno what the real case is but maybe this is what lead to him getting that special skill of his after reincarnating. (Side note: did we ever find out what Kanata/Katia's special skill was? I don't think so)

For some reason, Kyouya is angry/annoyed with Kanata about "Wakaba", but Shun doesn't know why. I think Kyouya knows/suspects that Kanata wasn't being honest about the confession, which is why he's annoyed. It's probably something along those lines.

Would be interesting to know D's perspective on her fake life as "Wakaba Hiiro". Is she just trying to "spectate" or is there anything more...?

[kari-no-sugata II]

Can't see it posted elsewhere on this thread but "Kumo" came 3rd in the "tankōbon" category for the "Kono Light Novel ga Sugoi! 2017's Series Ranking":
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...anking/.109073

Beaten only by Overlord and Monogatari.

Explanation on the ranking system:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/fea...nkings/.109892

You can see more info on the breakdown of the rankings here:
https://forums.animesuki.com/showpos...&postcount=664

Interestingly, "Kumo" demolished the competition in "collaborator" rankings but did poorly in the online poll. Putting it another way, at the moment, it's much more of a critical success than a popular success.

[Ebrie]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Can't see it posted elsewhere on this thread but "Kumo" came 3rd in the "tankōbon" category for the "Kono Light Novel ga Sugoi! 2017's Series Ranking":
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...anking/.109073

Beaten only by Overlord and Monogatari.

Explanation on the ranking system:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/fea...nkings/.109892

You can see more info on the breakdown of the rankings here:
https://forums.animesuki.com/showpos...&postcount=664

Interestingly, "Kumo" demolished the competition in "collaborator" rankings but did poorly in the online poll. Putting it another way, at the moment, it's much more of a critical success than a popular success.

I'm quite surprised it was able to stay afloat this year. Given that the vast majority of the content came out last year and readers needed to wait through two moderately long hiatuses, those stats are amazing. It's a shame the series hasn't had consistent releases since January.

[kari-no-sugata II]

The ranking is for commercial works not the WN. There was 4 LN releases in the last 12 months.

[Amuris]

Well, it’s not like I have any right to say that with my age matching my time without a girlfriend.

Shun, towards you, I am indifferent. Then you said this. Now I hate you.