2017-07-17, 22:39
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Link #862 |
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Join Date: May 2017
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Does anyone remember in TOS how the side 'eyes' on Gamilon ships were cannons. I have the Tech Manual and they list them as medium or heavy energy cannons. Also the Zoleguut class was only a bit larger than the now Destroia class heavy cruiser. And the Destroia was a measly 72 meters long, smaller than the EDF destroyer. All of the original ships were way smaller than they are in the new version. The old version would look like kids toys compared to the new version. Don't even get me started on how they inflated the Bringer of Victory class, or the now Calaklum class.
Last edited by Johnathan Hardwell; 2017-07-17 at 22:50. |
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2017-07-18, 01:34
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Link #863 |
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Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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I remember quite a lot, as I've been recasting the old ships into their Yamato 2199 and 2202 versions for the old game. Some of the scaling up was logical. Yamato was enlarged to 333 meters because it turns out that was how large the 1974 animation model was based on her bridge design. The Gamilon lighter ships scaling upwards makes some sense if you don't need to have three (or now four) ship classes to be the same size, but instead show a bit of size difference to reflect their usefulness in the fleet.
The Zoleguut's massive new size is due to the idea of making what was one just the command yacht that Dommel had at the Battle of the Rainbow Galaxies (instead of the battleship he had had up to Balan) a the command deck of said battleship, thus the bridge module had to be scaled to look like that saucer that straps itself to Yamato's third bridge, thus giving us a very large Gamilon fleet battleship. The new improved Gamilon fleet impresses me, because before the Gamilon fleet was tiny ships....lots and lots of tiny ships, but still tiny. Their biggest ships were still dwarfed by Yamato and basically all the races that follow them. Gamilon players would need massive numbers and clever tricks (mines, fighters, SMITE) to win battles against the EDF, Comet Empire, or Dark Nebula Empire. Now the Gamilon fleet has some huge ships and can go toe to toe with most powers....unless their are wave motion gun type weapons involved, and even then, the Gamilons do still have numbers on their side....numbers and missiles. The inflation of the Bringer of Victory was surprise aa I thought they'd keep that as a the run of the mill battleship, until one notices that there were none seen in Yamato 2199. This potentially makes it as a special craft dispatched under the Emperor's direct orders rather than the usual raiders and the like. But even that scaling isn't going to prepare us for what is coming in Chapter III of Yamato 2202. Not only the "school of battleships" with thousands of Calaklum ('Shipnado' I think was coined for this instance on the Yamato 2199 Facebook page), but how do you deal with that, and potentially get the return of Dessler Soto. Using presently available information from Yamato 2202 into the old Star Blazers game system....the EDF is very, very over powered. Wave Motion Shielding along with massive numbers of missile tubes and the shock cannons make them very powerful ships, and that is before you even get to the wave motion guns on basically every single ship in the post-Yamato fleet (though to be fair, the Earth always had that advantage post-Yamato because every ship larger than a destroyer had a wave motion gun). The Dark Nebula ships are still large compared to other races. Their frigates and corvettes are still larger than Gamilon heavy cruisers due to their saucer nature, and their cruiser and battleship guns are still more powerful than Earth's even with the changes up to the Andromeda-class ships. I haven't tried an Earth vs Nebula battle in well over two years now since I've been focusing on redesigning the Comet Empire ships as more information comes out and then having to revamp the Earth fleet as the details come out, so I've not managed to retry the Dark Nebula forces since inflicting the Yamato 2199 Gamilon fleet against them over Iscandar with backup with the old game's Earth fleet with only the most minor upgrades (I added shields like Yamato and fusion shells, which I have as weaker versions of the wave motion cartridges from that game system. The only difference is that the fusion shells require three penetrating hits to cause a single internal critical hit, while a wave motio cartridge only requires one for all ships that are not Dark Nebula....the Nebulan ships react poorly to wave motion energy, so they take three critical hits per shell. This does not happen with fusion shells, which are much less devastating against the Nebulan ships verses the usual wave motion cartridges.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2017-07-18 at 01:47. |
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2017-07-18, 02:19
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Link #864 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
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I'm still a bit upset that the Dreadnought's around the same size as they were in the original series, especially since that means the rest of the new EDF ships will be a lot smaller than their Gamilon counterparts. If they were worried about the maw overshadowing the Andromeda's I still think fudging a bit of the proportions and making it ~300 meters would have been better.
Oh well. Wish we could have gotten a figure for the patrol cruiser as well since it would have given a reference for how big the rest of the EDF ship classes would be. |
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2017-07-18, 05:12
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Link #868 |
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Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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I don't mind the rest of the Earth fleet being around their original sizes, nor smaller than their Gamilon counterparts in some respects. I treat the Earth ships as having superior technology thanks to Iscandar, thus their weaponry and armor is better than similarly sized older Gamilon ships. Even before Yamato is completed I was thinking that some of the Earth technology was superior to the Gamilons, but what the Earth lacked was faster than light drives and power systems needed to make their weaponry powerful enough to engage the Gamilons on equal terms. The Earth ships hull armor actually seem to be better than the Gamilon armor when you compare that Gamilon weapons do to the Earth ships at Pluto and then what the same weapons do to the larger Gamilon ships themselves. Kirishima took more punishment than any of the Gamilon warships seem to be able to take at Balun from their own weaponry.
Enhance by Iscandarian technology, the upgraded pre-Yamato Earth ships are likely superior to their Gamilon allies in many ways. Better power generation. Stronger weapons for their size. Shielding (even if it is very light). Already better general armor than the Gamilon ships. Not all ways mind you. There are things that experience with the technology will keep the Gamilons ahead of the Earth for at least a few more years and some areas where Earth isn't even interested in looking yet. Gamilons have better warp engine control systems and are likely more accurate than Earth systems due to experience. Gamilon ships probably have superior automation to even Andromeda due to experience and use of androids. Some Gamilon ships have better reflective or absorption coating than Earth ships (the Zoleguut's bow armor and their assault walls using in Yamato 2202, but the Earth uses wave motion shielding instead) though this may just be due to the size of this ship rather than the technology behind them. We will likely find out more as we see more and more Earth tech and how far they have advanced since Iscandar intervened starting in 2198. However. With this alliance and the possibly gains the Gamilon might get out of it (and whatever Dessler gets out of whatever he is doing) will enable them to built larger and better warships that can at least match their Earth allies, if not overwhelm them (even Yamato). These would be the Bolar Wars era ships, redone to reflect the Yamato 2199 changes...which honestly won't be all that much considering just how large and well armed the Galman Empire ships were in Yamato III. With that fleet, armed with their Dessler Cannons of various sizes and large planet killing missiles...the Gamilons will again be the superior power in their alliance with Earth. The questions for that series would be, how does Earth get involved against the Bolar, or do they mess up and aid the Bolar first before understanding what is going on? Or because of Dessler, Earth leaves its alliance and tries to go neutral. Will Dessler become like he was...the enemy that is my friend to Kodai? Or will that title go to other Gamilons they've encountered and Dessler becomes the wildcare (who eventually comes to save the day against the Black Hole Gun fortress of the Bolar). The setup from Yamato 2199 onwards leads to the Bolar Wars series being very possible, but with a more interesting political dynamic.
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2017-07-18, 05:49
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Link #869 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
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2017-07-18, 06:51
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Link #871 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Most likely, larger. Though I still need to see the new version of Gatlantis on screen and in full to properly assess that. From the initial core designs done by Makoto Kobayashi it's difficult to judge how large it might be.
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2017-07-18, 09:10
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Link #872 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
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Though I really like how they gave the Medalusa more offensive weapons than the original version. Also I was shocked when they destroyed it in The Celestial Ark because I remember them only ever having one in TOS. But when they showed the new season with more I felt a little better. There are several changes from the original show in 2202, but I feel they make it better. Some I might not agree with *cough* Calakum class *cough*, but they are doing a splendid job currently. Also does anyone know where I might find Chapter II of 2202, I need episodes 3 and 4.
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2017-07-20, 19:32
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Link #878 |
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Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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You will need a lot of space for that. Dommel's battleship is about two and a half feet long in that scale. Yomato is 13 inches long. If the 1/2000 scale took off that might work, but the Bandai's Mecha Colle and Cosmo Fleet Special from Megahouse are closer to gamable as they are in the four to seven inch range, but are not in scale with each other. However those work with the old Musashi Enterprises miniatures well enough for gaming (those old miniatures are around 1/4600 scale). The Megahouse and Meche Colle heavy battleships' base fits into a three inch hex and makes the older miniatures look appropriately small.
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2017-07-20, 20:45
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Link #879 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
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In regards to size, there are some large ships, but most players would most likely only use the smaller ships due to how expensive and odd to get the Zoelguut class is to get. I've seen a game with small warships that did accurate scale for weapons fire. The play area was massive. I have a Zoelguut, skaianDestiny can attest to this, it's not as over powering as one might expect. That also might be due to me owning three 1/350 scale USS Enterprise models NX, TOS, and A
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2017-07-20, 23:51
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Link #880 |
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Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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The 1/1000 scale Yamato and Andromeda would be around the same lengths as the 1/1000 scale USS Enterprise-A and USS Excelsior. Dommel's battleship would be closer in size to the USS Enterprise-E or the studio's take on how long the Kelvinverse USS Enterprise would be in 1/1000th scale.
Some examples of the newer smaller models and toys with the older miniatures.  .  .
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2017-07-21 at 00:04. Reason: images |
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